[Closed] website costs

Oh right ok, I better tell them that then, so's they can change their job descriptions...

They don't need to change their job descriptions, just their job titles. Or perhaps your recollection of them.

Do I really need to explain the difference between development and design? [i]Really?[/i]

I'm reasonably proficient at web development. I couldn't be a web designer if my life depended on it.

[i]No no no, you have rose tinted specs on there mate[/i]

No, actually wrong. I have clear glasses on; clear enough to see that a society built on consumerism of the kind we have at present is only good for people who can pay lots of money to sell their products to other people.

It doesn't mean that I get to buy the best thing, it means I get to buy the best marketed thing.

It doesn't mean I get to buy the most effective thing, it means I get to buy the best marketed thing.

It doesn't mean I get to buy the least environmentally damaging thing, it means I get to buy the best marketed thing.

It's your society too, the one that your kids are growing up in, the one that your grandchildren will grow up in, but never mind, at least people are making money from it.

It's strange that when I introduced this idea to a Division Director at Samsung S.A. he was willing to listen and talk and to some degree agree with me, we haven't finished talking on the subject.
Yet molgrips can only offer 'rubbish', and this is based on what?

This is getting boring without TJ repeating himself so here goes.

Emperor's New Clothes. Think about it.

Guff.

don simon - Member
Perhaps not, but it is what it is.
It's the modern way of doing business that has brought us to the current crisis as there is more competition, less real innovation and business leaders demand more.

Interesting. Most folk claim there is [i]less[/i] competition.

Broken pages again!

I know TJ is trolling, but I do suspect that he does believe to some very great extent that he is unaffected by brand marketing and advertising. He is of course wrong, he's been shown up hugely twice already by tiger6791. If you said you'd read which magazine you'd have more credibility than saying you ask other people for advice as you have now infact shown yourself to be the easiest influenced and best kind of brand advocate available. Brilliant Stuff.

I know TJ is trolling, but I do suspect that he does believe to some very great extent that he is unaffected by brand marketing and advertising. He is of course wrong, he's been shown up hugely twice already by tiger6791. If you said you'd read which magazine you'd have more credibility than saying you ask other people for advice as you have now infact shown yourself to be the easiest influenced and best kind of brand advocate available. Brilliant Stuff.

Come on, the world has changed beyond recognition in the last 10 years. Look at the screen in front of you! Technological innovation is proceeding at a rate greater than ever before, if you hadn't noticed from your hermitage in the Spanish mountains 😉

Where are all the missing posts????

It's the modern way of doing business that has brought us to the current crisis as there is more competition, less real innovation and business leaders demand more.

The line between new inovation vs. continualed development of a product is a bit blured. Yet I agree with the point your making.

.().().().

I bet the OP would be really surprised at how this thread turned out

.

.

I bet the OP would be really surprised at how this thread turned out

OP will be very happy, as I am. 😆

That took nearly 1 hour for p7 to come up. 😯

The pace of technological change is greater now than ever before. Just look at the screen in front of you. I can't believe anyone could say there's no innovation.

Even that classic advertising case study, washing powder. There used to be just washing powder, now there's biodegradable and wash at 15 degrees - those are innovations. Both from an ecological and a marketing point of view.

Interesting. Most folk claim there is less competition.

Are these real most folks or hypothetical I don't agree with you but have no facts to support me most folks?

When I was giving courses in a pharma company they had a calcium drug with no less than 10 competitors, non of whom had a USP (unique selling point). In the car industry the likes of Lexus, Tata, Dacia and even Daewoo are new entrants. As domestic markets are getting more and more saturated, new markets have to be found therefore increasing competition. Due to the crisis some companies are being lost, but up until now, I would disagree and say competition is increasing.

molgrips, you'll understand if I ignore you, won't you?

don simon - Member
> Interesting. Most folk claim there is less competition.
Are these real most folks or hypothetical I don't agree with you but have no facts to support me most folks?

Mostly the latter. We are always hearing that "globalisation" is seeing smaller companies being swallowed up. Then there's the reduced number of Banks and, of course, the STW favourite, the supermarket doing away with all those small shops.

The line between new inovation vs. continualed development of a product is a bit blured. Yet I agree with the point your making.

Then there's the reduced number of Banks and, of course, the STW favourite, the supermarket doing away with all those small shops.

What if, right, you oiled a supermarket aisle, then you could use pieces of bacon to slide along it. Have competitions to see how far you can slide!

😮

Wheeeeeeee!

[img] [/img]

Just be sure you don't slip on some of the verbal Diarrhea that you might come across here!

How was that taken Elfin? Moving the camera or moving the zoom?

Taken whilst sliding on bacon in an oiled aisle! 😀

Anyway...

The next time any of you are designing (or indeed building) an ecomms site, please refer to this helpful guide...

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/shopping_cart

[i]New website with eCommerce section - all from scratch with brand new logo design and business style sheet - is £600 reasonable fee for the work? I seem to think it is, just wanted to check.
[/i]
[i]OK cool, it's a guy I've used a lot in the past with great success, but not for a couple of years. Sweet. I guess office costs in Karachi are a little lower than Harrogate
<retreats and awaits jingoistic and xenophobic assault....>
[/i]

Whats going here ?, no way I'm reading 7 pages of, errr, guff ?.

iDave.
That £600 quid you are paying your man in ****stan.
What will happen to that money, where will it go ?.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/shopping_cart

That link is full of win. Awesome 🙂

[b]THIS DEAL IS APESHIT MONKEY BANANAS[/b] had me, it was all going to win after that.

🙂

djglover - Member

I know TJ is trolling, but I do suspect that he does believe to some very great extent that he is unaffected by brand marketing and advertising. He is of course wrong, he's been shown up hugely twice already by tiger6791

I know I am unaffected, I have not been shown up by anything on this thread. How on earth has tiger shown me up? All he has done is claim I do things and have motivations that I don't have

Just a load of supposition and cant.

I have clearly explained how I make my decisions - based on mine and others real world experiences, price and convenience. Not on marketing ever.

Now too may of you guys are involved in this world and cannot believe that people like me exist because if you accepted people like me exist it shows how much your lives and importance is built on sand.

Teh problem is you cannot understand that people live with radically different lifestyle and values to you.

iDave.
That £600 quid you are paying your man in ****stan.
What will happen to that money, where will it go ?.

my guess his he'll pay the designers, the gas bill, maybe treat his wife to a night out. Shall I ask him for you?

druidh - Member

TJ - you lived in Scotland, not Outer Mongolia. Black DM shoes were very popular when I was at Secondary School. In fact, much more so than the red ones.

I find this fascinating - it really wasn't at my school in Glasgow. No one wore docs at all.

however when I started wearing them was when I was working in Manchester - and again they were rare.

Must have been a localised thing I guess as my experience is so different to others

I'll tell you something iDave, it doesn't matter how much you spend on brand awareness if you're not going to call potential clients 🙂

I believe that most market have a comfortable number of suppliers, in the UK and banking that number is 4 major banks. Once a fifth bank comes into play, the costs for the others become too high and we have to see a merger for the equilibrium and competitiveness to be restored.

Not sure I follow this? How does the entry of a fifth bank make the costs for the others too high? If you are assuming that the business of 4 banks will then be spread across 5 banks it is a rather simplistic assumption. From an Economics perspective you have to assume that the new entrant will act rationally and only enter the market if (1) he observes the encumbents making profits and (2) believes he himself can make a profit (perhaps through cost advantage, innovative process etc). This entry will increases competitiveness. You are then back into the good old 'creative gale of destruction', as Schumpeter called it, where the encumbents compete and drive down prices till some or all of them go out of business.

Now too may of you guys are involved in this world and cannot believe that people like me exist because if you accepted people like me exist it shows how much your lives and importance is built on sand.

No, you exist, and the marketers know you exist. Illustrated that in my Tesco Value post!

No you did not - simply because you were wrong in what you said on that post about me.

I do love the way you can tell me what my motivations are.

I didn't resurrect this thread for you to start bickering again! It was just an amusing link and I thought it suited this thread!

No you did not - simply because you were wrong in what you said on that post about me.

I do love the way you can tell me what my motivations are.

But you said you were uninflueced by brands and just buy the cheapest regardless of quality. That's fine and I understand.

But nonetheless you are a segment of a market that can be targetted. You are the segment which is uninflueced by brands and just buy the cheapest regardless of quality.

You cannot be disagreeing thus far?

I said that the following is what the marketers said:

In Tescos (or any other FMCG retailer) marketing department some years ago:

Marketing person 1: "I reckon there's a segment out there that just wants the cheapest, isn't interested in quality and thinks they're unaffected by brands"

Marketing person 2: "you're right, lets buy in some cheap products and price them below the brand leaders"

Marketing person 3: "great idea, because the segment thinks they are uninfluenced by brands lets just brand them very simply, how about we call them Tesco Value"

Basic understanding fail I'm afraid

I do not buy them because of what is on the label. I buy them because of price, convenience and taste.

This is completely unaffected by marketing in any form at all. No matter what the marketeers do I would still buy based on price, convenience and taste.

You don't understand my motivations. You ascribe motivations to me I do not have.

I don't buy "tesco value" or any other "brand" I buy what is cheapest in my local shop or the shop I am in. I by a tin of beans not a tin of "tesco value" beans

damo, did they say that, or did they say?
"there are quite a lot of poor people out there, lets get them to spend their money in our shop, we'll produce cheap items, and save a bit of money on packaging by only getting labels printed in two colours"

damo, did they say that, or did they say?
"there are quite a lot of poor people out there, lets get them to spend their money in our shop, we'll produce cheap items, and save a bit of money on packaging by only getting labels printed in two colours"

You think the supermarkets do it out of the goodness of their heart to help poor people? Their margins would be better on their own brand products.

...and save a bit of money on packaging by only getting labels printed in two colours

... and make people think it's cheaper because they've cut costs on packaging, rather than contents.

Clever stuff.

I like Heinz beans. I have eaten loads of beans along the way but I reckon they are the best. I must have been about 7 when this opinion was formed, I remember complaining to my dad when he bought happy shopper beans at around that time, because they were a bit hard and the sauce was watery.

If I go into a shop to buy a new product, say a bottle of mayopickletard, there is every chance that I will buy Heinz again because I know that I like some of their other products. If I don't like the pickle that much I might try another brand but I will likely try theirs first.

So, I hereby confess to living a meaningless life and propose that TJ should be in charge of everything as he clearly has a much better strategy for living than the rest of us.

this thread keeps breaking the forum 🙂

I think it might just be buckling under the weight of TJ's authority.

I do love the way you can tell me what my motivations are.

Jeremy! You do the EXACT same thing to me ALL THE TIME!

Anyway, pricing is part of marketing, therefore you have been marketed at and it worked.

for £600 I know a bloke who could fix the forum....

iDave,
but will the design be up to scratch? thats the question...

Basic Understanding Fail by TJ.

Marketing is the management process that identifies, anticipates and satisfies customer requirements profitably.

Marketing, branding and advertising are all different concepts. You have fallen prey to marketing, irrespective of what you think. A self diagnosis is not reliable.

Not sure I follow this? How does the entry of a fifth bank make the costs for the others too high? If you are assuming that the business of 4 banks will then be spread across 5 banks it is a rather simplistic assumption. From an Economics perspective you have to assume that the new entrant will act rationally and only enter the market if (1) he observes the encumbents making profits and (2) believes he himself can make a profit (perhaps through cost advantage, innovative process etc). This entry will increases competitiveness. You are then back into the good old 'creative gale of destruction', as Schumpeter called it, where the encumbents compete and drive down prices till some or all of them go out of business.

Not sure I follow this? How does the entry of a fifth bank make the costs for the others too high? If you are assuming that the business of 4 banks will then be spread across 5 banks it is a rather simplistic assumption. From an Economics perspective you have to assume that the new entrant will act rationally and only enter the market if (1) he observes the encumbents making profits and (2) believes he himself can make a profit (perhaps through cost advantage, innovative process etc). This entry will increases competitiveness. You are then back into the good old 'creative gale of destruction', as Schumpeter called it, where the encumbents compete and drive down prices till some or all of them go out of business.

good old 'creative gale of destruction', as Schumpeter called it,

Funny, I was discussing this with a student today, didn't know it had a poncey name though. 😀

TJ - you buy them because of the price - that price has been set because of heavy influence from the marketing department, and the business model.

Tescos might be making a [small] loss on their "tesco value" products, to artificially bump up the price of their regular baked beans - which are percieved to be an acceptable price by joe public. It just means their profit margin on the regular beans is 2p below what you might think.

Warton, do you really think there is a huge amount of difference in a two colour print run and a three+ colour when you're doing a million tins of beans.

Anyway, you know you're buying the cheapest you must be aware of the expensive ones surely...?

TJ, if one tin of beans if more expensive yet like manna from heaven, and the other is cheaper what do you buy? You seem to be implying taste comes into it, yet always affirming that you always buy the cheapest?

breatheeasy, it will be cheaper, that was my point.

TBH I was just playing devils advocate, I don't totally disagree with damos point, but I was making the point that it's likely the supermarkets were thinking of getting people with less money through the doors, rather than someone who doesn't think they're affected by marketing

Are the cheapest really the cheapest?
I remember the Tesco beans at 10p per tin and a total content of 15 beans against the HP or Heinz or whatever with significantly more. Who's the sucker for believing the marketing crap about own brand and cheeeeeepness?

You just don't get it.

I do not buy tesco value, I do not buy a brand of any sort. I buy based on other parameters.

My decision on this is made regardless of any marketing / branding / advertising.

Just because you cannot understand this does not mean it is not true.

Not eveytone is a gullible sheep you know - but you will never accept this as accepting that people like me exist undermines your whole ethos.

Somonme higher up asked me what jeans I buy - the answer is I don't!

What car? I don't have one

I have not bought a new consumer good of any kind for years and years.

What do you wear on your legs then?

I do not buy a brand of any sort

Sorry mate, you're the one not getting it.

You buy based on price. That price is determined by marketing. Marketing is the process of getting people to buy your product. Now that could be via advertising, brainwashing, taking advantage of the gullible etc, or it might be ensuring your product is the cheapest.

The only possible way to avoid the effects of marketing would be to buy completely at random, which you don't do.

And stop calling everyone gullible fools, it's rude and offensive.

molgrips, can I call you this evening, in about half an hour?

Please! I'm a little bit stressed out about this move to Germany but to talk about biking would take my mind off it 🙂

Molgrips - sorry you just don't understand. It seems to be beyond your ken to understand that some people think differently.

That you cannot imagine or understand this reflects on how blinkered you are.

Perhaps you should actually accept that some people think differently than you and act differently.

Molgrips - sorry you just don't understand. It seems to be beyond your ken to understand that some people think differently

Mate listen. I understand you think differently. Great. You're a one of a kind, individual, yes fine we all know that. But this isn't about you.

Marketing is about adjusting the parameters to maximise sales. You already said you have parameters. So marketing influences your buying as well as everyone else's. That's not a bad thing, it's no reflection on your state of mind or gullibility or anything.

You already said you buy according to certain parameters. Marketing sets those parameters.

Like I say, the only way to avoid the influence of marketing is to buy completely at random.

Do you actually read posts all the way through btw?

That you cannot imagine or understand this reflects on how blinkered you are

Enough. I understand a LOT more than you realise, as do most other people on this forum.

Tescos might be making a [small] loss on their "tesco value" products, to artificially bump up the price of their regular baked beans

Moreover, they'll sell them at a loss to get people in the store to "buy a cheap tin of beans," then sell them a flatscreen telly once they're in there. How often have you popped into the supermarket for a bottle of milk and a loaf, and come away having somehow spent forty quid?

I have not bought a new consumer good of any kind for years and years.

What bike do you ride? The cheapest?

And TJ, do you seriously buy food based solely on price and no other criteria, or are you devil's advocating? I don't know the first thing about you other than the persona you present on here, but you never struck me as a Tesco Value kind of guy.

For my part, I weigh up different factors before I make a purchase. For consumer goods, I'll do a lot of research on independent forums and the like. As an example, I recently bought a Bluray player; I spent, literally, about a year researching the purchase (though admittedly that was in part due to financial reasons, I'm not [i]quite [/i]that OCD).

For day-to-day provisions, I try and sample as many brands as I can. Taking tinned spaghetti as an example (cos I'm contrary), I've taste-tested the ones readily available from my local supermarkets; Heinz, Tesco and ASDA own brands, Tesco and ASDA Value / Smart Price, and Branston. I generally buy Heinz, because irrespective of branding it's the product I prefer. I have no brand loyalty, and if a new one appears I'll probably buy a tin to try it at some point.

Who is least marketing-influenced; someone who researches expensive purchases and experiments with different consumable brands, or someone who blindly buys the cheapest regardless of whether it's rubbish or not?

Smacks of cutting off your nose to spite your face to me, the only reason I can think to do that is if you're genuinely having to watch the pennies.

cougar - secondhand bikes apart form the insurance replacement when they insisted I had a new one rather than giving me the money to buy secondhand which I would have preferred.

Edit crossed posts. Oversimplified but its the cheapest that is of acceptable quality in the shop that is convenient to me. I do not care what its says on the label. I decide what I want to buy for my own reasons.

double edit - other food is bought purely on grounds of tasts - price no object.

Molgrips - this is the bit you don't understand

You already said you buy according to certain parameters. Marketing sets those parameters.

No - I set the parameters. Not a marketing man. I decide on what I want to buy according to the parameters I set.

There will always be a cheapest Tin of beans - in whatever shop I go in.

if I went to tescos to buy tesco value then you would be right - but sometimes I go into the local shop and buy expensive Heinz ( thats all they stock) because I can't be bothered walking to tescos. Sometimes I go to asda.

You do not want to understand so there is no point in me explaining further. You after all have the one of the ultimate marketing successes in the Prius that you have bought into completely despite it actually not being eco friendly over its life. I on the other hand despite the marketing men telling me that I need a car and other consumer goods to enjoy my life don't own a car nor do I buy and own other new consumer durables.

Out of curiosity TJ - what job do you do?

And re the beans discussion much of the reason supermarkets and many other companies have ranges such as value, regular and premium is to price discriminate. They know that everyone has a different willingness to pay for a tin of beans, some will pay a small amount while some will pay a larger amount. Having a product on the shelf at 3 price points enables them to sell more compared to the case of only 1. Indeed having beens at 3 prices forces the consumer to reveal their willingness to pay and of course the differential cost of production between each variant of bean is negligible. This helps to maximise profits.

iDave.

He won't tell you the truth.

And those blokes in black ?, they magic money out thin air.
And what do they spend it on ???????

I love knobbers like you, not a thought or a care in the world, you're just focused on [i]WINNING[/i].

And the men in black know it, and turn it against you.

You amuse me.

Carry on.

I love knobbers like you, not a thought or a care in the world, you're just focused on WINNING.

And the men in black know it, and turn it against you.

Thank you captain, that is quite simply beautiful. If only you knew what my focus was on...

Are you inferring that no one outside the UK with dark skin deserves to be rewarded for being competent?

Are you typing away on a UK built laptop, in honky made clothes, sipping coffee from Essex plantations?

iDave.

Nice try 😉

But read it again and you might see 🙄 I'm referring to people who wear black clothes, and can be seen toting the common-all-garden ak47, ied, (name your preferred ordinance), in that region of the world.

Spend your money in certain parts of the world, and it will be channelled to people you wouldn't have thought it would be.

Coming on here and bragging about how, while you live and enjoy the benefits of living in nice old blighty, you are unemploying local talent because they are too expensive, and are employing someone a long way away, who may be doing very dubious things with the money you so willingly, cleverly, throw at them.

Its, very amusing, you make me laugh.

And this website. You'll be using it to sell things to your man in Karachi, or Kensington ?.
😆

Carry on.

MODS

please ban captain_crash

that is all

[i]MODS

please [s]ban[/s] [b]promote[/b] captain_crash

that is [s]all[/s] [b]the limit of my ability to contribute[/b]
[/i]

There, fix'd that for you. But if the Mods dont listen, go tell the dinner ladies.

that doesn't actually make sense, but then nothing you've said in this topic has.

Warton.

Ah, sorry, you are of limited ability to understand the Captain.

You did make me laugh though. Of course, I'll try not to laugh at you anymore, because of your disability.

Which terrorism do you fund and support ?.

Al Qaeda.

No - I set the parameters. Not a marketing man. I decide on what I want to buy according to the parameters I set.

There will always be a cheapest Tin of beans - in whatever shop I go in.

How do you know that there are beans in the tin?

How do you know how much the tin weighs?

How do you know how much they cost?

I think you'll find a marketing person (they are not all men, lots of women work in marketing too these days and some are quite good) put a label on the tin saying what and how much is in the tin. They then helped set price in order to help you with your decision of buying the best value per unit mass of beans.

[i]How do you know that there are beans in the tin?

How do you know how much the tin weighs?

How do you know how much they cost?
[/i]

LoL !, thats great.
🙂

Don't you lot, Molgrips, get it ?...

TJ [i]thinks[/i] he is uneffected, etc, etc.

Simples !, no need for loads of posts about beans.
Phew-weee

But read it again and you might see I'm referring to people who wear black clothes, and can be seen toting the common-all-garden ak47, ied, (name your preferred ordinance), in that region of the world.

Spend your money in certain parts of the world, and it will be channelled to people you wouldn't have thought it would be.

I pay him so little he doesn't have much left over to channel into terrorism. Which of course he'd love to do, being a ****stani Muslim, they're all like that don't you know 😯

The business sells all over the world, we even have both Jewish and Arab customers, though we prefer to refer to them as 'people'.

Which are you captain?
a) a poor troll
b) a prize tool

EDIT - obviously if I pay people in the UK it ends up in the hands of delightful philanthropists who have societies best interests at heart...

There are other considerations with the beans of course - salt & sugar content and consistency.

e.g. the value bean tin [i]usually[/i] has lower salt & sugar and is a bit more runny - which is perfect to use them in a sausage risotto (although John Torode of Masterchef will damn me for using long grain rice in a risotto)
or for rice'n'beans recipes

however, for beans on toast only Heinz will do.

P.S. Should Cap'n Crash be promoted sideways or to the level of his incompetence?

This beans discussion is all getting very scientific, so I'll add in a further variable. What are the implications for salt/sugar content, runnyness and taste when sausages are added to the tin of beans?

And what are the subsequent implications for marketing and branding?