[Closed] We done the "Lane Hogging" conviction yet?

One thing the French are better at than the Brits...driving on motorways

Ignoring Paris I'd say that the French are better drivers in general these days 😯

I recently spent a week in France and unless I was just lucky I found driving around over there quite pleasant. Driving standards in the Uk must be that bad now to make France feel like a civilised place to drive in 😆

Join the motorway, carve straight into the second lane without the slightest consideration for the existing motorway conditions, then stay there until the exit where they once again dive straight across the first lane onto the slip in one movement.

What baffles me about the stereotypical dogmatic middle lane sitter is that they'll do 80 down the middle lane until they come up behind something doing 65, then they'll just sit at 65 even though the outside lane is completely clear. When the car in front is eventually removed from their path, it's back up to 80 again.

I mean, if you're so keen to do 80, surely a simple overtake is more appealing than sitting up someone's arse at 65? Unless of course you're a complete moro—oh wait

I mean, if you're so keen to do 80, surely a simple overtake is more appealing than sitting up someone's arse at 65? Unless of course you're a complete moro—oh wait

some people who explained middle lane driving as a fear of changing lanes

If there's one thing I've learned, it's not to try to understand WHY people drive like they drive. Doesn't stop me getting wound up by it, of course.

It's odd how the people who are supposedly too scared of changing lanes to change lanes aren't so scared of changing into the middle lane, though, isn't it? 🙂

Ignoring Paris I'd say that the French are better drivers in general these days

I recently spent a week in France and unless I was just lucky I found driving around over there quite pleasant. Driving standards in the Uk must be that bad now to make France feel like a civilised place to drive in

I did too, and noted a few stark differences between there and the UK. (Warning, the following post is anecdotal based on the area I was driving around, and may contain rash generalisations and confirmation bias.)

1) Lane discipline is much, much better than the UK. People will generally pull out to overtake and then pull back in again. Bliss.

2) Most cars travel at or near the speed limits, so most of your overtaking is slower-moving traffic like lorries or caravans.

3) Those who choose to speed, really choose to speed. They'll come screaming up behind you and sit millimetres from your back bumper until you get out of the way. Quite a few times I thought I was towing another car.

4) The drag-racing lorries really do not give a shit. They'll sit side-by-side on a two lane carriageway for miles, then once the nominally faster one finally clears the other and pulls in, the one behind will [i]immediately[/i] - like, before the first one has even completed the lane change - pull out and the whole bloody procedure repeats. Bastards.

5) The nearer you get to Paris, the worse the driving gets. Probably true of any big city I guess.

6) And perhaps the most pertinent; the roads are considerably quieter than the UK. The 'motorways' look like the photos of the ones here in the 1960s.

It's odd how the people who are supposedly too scared of changing lanes to change lanes aren't so scared of changing into the middle lane, though, isn't it?

Ah, but apparently the middle lane is the "cruising lane." God knows where they've got that from but I've heard it more than once.

Glad someone has been convicted / got points for this. Hogging the middle lane narrows a 3/4 lane road to 2 lanes, causes congestion as traffic backs up and encourages people to undertake.

Specifically on @Bills point below

One thing the French are better at than the Brits...driving on motorways.*

If you see someone hogging the middle lane on an Autoroute, it's invariably a Brit.

* = Unless you're driving around the peripherique on the outskirts of Paris, when it's every man for himself.

Ah, but apparently the middle lane is the "cruising lane." God knows where they've got that from but I've heard it more than once.

"The 'slow' lane is just for lorries, isn't it?"

is one I've heard more than once too

Cougar - Moderator

Ah, but apparently the middle lane is the "cruising lane." God knows where they've got that from but I've heard it more than once.

Stupid isn't it, it's a terrible place to pick up guys.

Had a thought riding home last night. There was a cycle lane on the pavement which I avoid because it crosses side turnings etc. Also, once you are on it, you normally can't easily get back on the road without having to give way. So I stay on the road.

Will I be viewed as a kind of middle lane hogger to a driver behind. I do feel guilty sometimes and pick my speed up a bit.

You're not, but you likely will

"The 'slow' lane is just for lorries, isn't it?"

Don't see as many middle lane hogs these days, as they seem to have upgraded to an Audi and now hog the outside lane.

It's not uncommon on the M5 for the outside lane to be parked or rolling at 20mph and the other two lanes to be empty as everyone wants to go in the 'fast' lane. At this point I normally sit at 70 in lane 1 with 3 or for other cars and undertake them with the buffer of a completely empty middle lane.

God knows where they've got that from

Perhaps part of the problem is that, for some bizarre reason, drivers pass a driving test without ever actually driving on a motorway - the road where many will spend the majority of their driving?

A two-stage test might be a sensible approach.

GrahamS - Member

Perhaps part of the problem is that, for some bizarre reason, drivers pass a driving test without ever actually driving on a motorway - the road where many will spend the majority of their driving?

Not everyone has access to a motorway, there's none north of Perth or west of Exeter so it could never be part of the main test. And making it a standalone would be impractical

And in today's news the driver...

[i]said he plans to appeal after claiming he was victimised because he drives a white van.

Decorator Ian Stephens, from Wigan, was fined £940 and given five penalty points after being caught driving his Citroen Berlingo van in the middle lane of the M62 in West Yorkshire. [/i]

... he also said he was too busy working to attend the court originally. Berlingo drivers eh, salt of the earth.

Does 'Passed Plus' still happen, taking newbie drivers onto a motorway under supervision?

That's why I said two stage test Northwind.

Those people could be allowed to drive on non-motorway roads but they wouldn't be allowed to drive on motorways till they pass their Motorway Test.

Or maybe driving simulators could be used?

said he plans to appeal after claiming he was victimised because he drives a white van.

Does 'Passed Plus' still happen, taking newbie drivers onto a motorway under supervision?

Yep, but it is optional and many folk can't afford it, especially after potentially shelling out thousands for lessons, a test, tax and insurance.

https://www.gov.uk/pass-plus

It's not uncommon on the M5 for the outside lane to be parked or rolling at 20mph and the other two lanes to be empty as everyone wants to go in the 'fast' lane. At this point I normally sit at 70 in lane 1 with 3 or for other cars and undertake them with the buffer of a completely empty middle lane.

+1.

Managed motorways with the "use hard shoulder" lane lit is another good example. Set cruise to whatever's on the gantry and enjoy miles and miles of free-flowing, empty motorway whilst the lanes to your right are nose-to-nose. Happy days.

Perhaps part of the problem is that, for some bizarre reason, drivers pass a driving test without ever actually driving on a motorway - the road where many will spend the majority of their driving?

A two-stage test might be a sensible approach.

Yeah, mental isn't it. Practicalities aside, I'm wholly with you on the 'motorway test' idea. There needs to be something more than just a couple of theory questions, certainly.

Late to this one. Instead of worrying about middle lane hoggers, surely the instruments of the law and state would be much better utilised to properly penalise the incompetent drivers on motorways who cannot drive in a straight line without driving into the car in front of them? I've lost count of the number of accidents I've seen where someone went into the back of someone else because they failed to leave enough braking distance or simply weren't looking where they were going. It seems to me these people are far more dangerous than those doing 60 in the middle lane.

dazh probably true but it isn't a binary choice the police could always prosecute both forms of bad driving.

dazh probably true but it isn't a binary choice the police could always prosecute both forms of bad driving.

I'm all for prosecuting middle lane idiots but the system as a whole needs looking at, as bez stated way back it's same penalty for inconveniencing a few drivers and court as for wilfully endangering people around you.

The main problem is that there are not enough police on the motorways to police the traffic. Started commuting on the M1 in 99 and I'd see 1 or 2 cops both ways and people pulled every morning and evening. I left the UK in 2012 and I reckon I could go Lakes to Birmingham without seeing a single one.

If they could police the space it would be great, enforcing the simple driving without due care and attention which should cover tailgating, middle lane driving, mobile phones and eating breakfast on the commute.

GrahamS - Member

That's why I said two stage test Northwind.

Those people could be allowed to drive on non-motorway roads but they wouldn't be allowed to drive on motorways till they pass their Motorway Test.

How's that ever going to work? You're planning a trip so you stop halfway to do a driving test? Or you drive for 8 hours from John O Groats to get to the nearest motorway just to do your motorway test, then drive back after? Just impractical

Just impractical

And while we're at it can we get some regular retests aswell

Both those options seem better than just allowing people to do something life-threatening to others without any training purely because getting training would be too much trouble.

Those who don't live within an hour or two of a motorway, but still want to qualify to drive on one, could do the test in a simulator. In fact simulator tests may actually be better as many road conditions could be simulated (heavy traffic, a crash scene, rain, night driving etc).

Going to the old metaphor: in what other situation would untrained people be allowed to operate multi-ton high-speed machinery in situations where tens of thousands of people are seriously injured or killed every year?

more troublesome for a limited number of prospective driver but not unworkable.

I agree with more training but sometimes bits are impractical.

Edit to reply to GrahamS's last post good skills on a Dual Carrigeway should be a good starting point for motorway driving. with all those cars going in the same direction it's a much safer place to be.

Given Motorways have by far the lowest accident rates (per mile driven), they're way down the priority list for addressing driving issues.

Overall, most road casualties (i.e. fatal and non-fatal) tend to occur on built-up roads. In
2012, 71% of casualties occurred on built-up roads compared to 24% on non built-up roads
and 5% on motorways (see Table 2).

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn02198.pdf

A two-stage test might be a sensible approach.

Given Motorways have by far the lowest accident rates

footflaps: yep motorways are statistically safer but I'm not convinced middle lane driving is actually much of a safety issue to be honest

BTW are those stats for ALL casualties or just vehicle casualties?

What else is taught and then summarily ignored as soon as the test is passed?

Quite a lot really. And of course there are also changes in laws and road regulations, new markings introduced etc

All good reasons for regular re-tests (which might also provide an opportunity to test motorway driving).

Paying attention to what you've been taught might be a good idea. I didn't "just know" you were supposed to drive in the left lane unless overtaking, that information was supplied to me.

Driving tests change over time, too. What the previous generation was taught might not be in line with what I was taught, or what they currently teach.

I do wonder whether, with older drivers at least, they simply don't know any better because they were never told.

What else is taught and then summarily ignored as soon as the test is passed?

The trouble is that passing the driving test is seen as the lowest common denominator in driving ability, rather than a gold standard. I distinctly remember my driving instructor (back in 1991) telling me after I'd passed that my 'education starts now'. Whilst this is true, most people seem to take this advice as meaning 'forget about what you've just learned, that was to get you through the test, now you have to learn how to drive properly'. There's a very simple solution to this, regular repeat tests.

I do wonder whether, with older drivers at least, they simply don't know any better because they were never told

yeah I know that (even if you adjust for per journey, per mile is cheating )

You don't even have to adjust, even in absolute terms they get 5% of casualties.

BTW are those stats for ALL casualties or just vehicle casualties?

Statistically speaking, a motorway is the safest place to cycle 😉