I’d rather watch a race where weather is the deciding factor than a race where weather doesn’t affect things at all because the track is boring as hell
Definitely. That off camber approach to the jump where Kolb had his moment was nervous viewing though.
You’re right it should been a line of hard packed gravel all the way down. Or they should’ve built a roof over it.
I’d rather watch a race where weather is the deciding factor than a race where weather doesn’t affect things at all because the track is boring as hell.
Ah yes because those are the only two options.
Ah yes because those are the only two options.
OK, how would you design a track so that weather wasn't the deciding factor but was still interesting to watch?
Also, would you have every track in the WC circuit designed this way?
There is a third option
Warner said it was a large puddle on a flatter section before the 1st split that caused the later riders to lose time, most were at least 4 seconds down on Daprela by that point and had no chance of catching up. The weather did sort of spoil the race as it got steadily wetter and less grippy, but as already pointed out Brosnan was outside the top 40 despite being down quite early when it wasn't that wet. Personally I thought the track was everything a dh world cup should be, multiple lines the whole way down and loads of opportunities to lose/make up time. Tracks with one obviously faster line (Leogang original or Pietermaritzburg for example) mean fractions of a second can make all the difference, so riders hit higher speeds with bigger consequences if it goes wrong. I've heard several say it seems like tracks were being designed to suit TV broadcasting rather than challenging the best riders and the risks involved weren't worth it
Shame about the switch in conditions but it made for some edge of the seat viewing.
Unlike last year's weather-affected races, the post-race interviews seem pretty upbeat and accepting of the way the track turned out.
When you get sudden heavy rain during the race, it always skews the result, whatever the track.
I really hope they include this track again regularly, it'd be great to see a dry race or even a consistently wet race on it.
Update: World champs is there next year.
😀
Weather like they had yesterday will always skew the result. See; Lourdes 2017.
Asking if the track held out is just a daft wind up.
I was trolling a little just because everyone jumped on me saying the course didn't look great - and yes obviously big changes in the weather will change the track but having a section like that gap jump and the run in to it is just bad course design IMO.
I think rockier courses hold up better in the rain. I don't see many people complaining FW is boring even though it's a very 'built' track mostly.
I think rockier courses hold up better in the rain. I don’t see many people complaining FW is boring even though it’s a very ‘built’ track mostly.
Funny you should mention FW. If you remember 2017 that was a good example of a race that was actually ruined by weather and poor track design. The woods section was tiny but it decided the race and it was more or less a lottery if you got through there or not.
This race had nothing like that, as far as I could see.
I think it's easy to criticize any new track in hindsight, but TBH, most DH tracks are dirt on steep mountainsides, they're always going to to be more or less sketchy in the wet (for a given value of unridable for normal humans), and even Mont St Anne which is pretty rocky can be be brutal in the wet (see 2019)
I don’t see many people complaining FW is boring even though it’s a very ‘built’ track mostly.
The racers do complain that fort William is boring, and I certainly wouldn't mind if it had a bit of a rest.
It would be very exciting if we could have another UK world cup DH venue instead.
People have been saying Fort Bill is boring for 10 years. You don't follow DH do you?
I thought the track made for good watching and actually seemed to hold up quite well in the rain. People like Remi Thirion and Reece Wilson were still riding interesting lines in the wet.
I do agree though that the off-camber grass into wooden jump thing was nerve-wracking to watch (a fair few moments in the men's race), and the "sketchy corner into road gap" thing higher up caused a few injuries I think.
I'd be happy to see a return for next year on the whole!
It would be very exciting if we could have another UK world cup DH venue instead.
+1
Where would you go? Wales somewhere?
I guess there are multiple options in Wales and Scotland, but I don't know if there's anywhere else that could monetise it like Fort Bill... Or get access to the kind of tourism development funding that brings the world cup to other areas.
While the rain ruined the racing results it certainly upped the level of skill on show, just mental watching some of the line choices. The crash Reece Wilson had could have gone so, so wrong though for him and the spectators so they need to look at that. All-in a great one to watch.
I guess there are multiple options in Wales and Scotland, but I don’t know if there’s anywhere else that could monetise it like Fort Bill… Or get access to the kind of tourism development funding that brings the world cup to other areas.
There was talk of a Welsh venue putting a bid in around a decade ago but everywhere that could produce a good track couldn't do the infrastructure requirements. I think the only one that came close was the Dragon track at Gethin Woods (now BPW), maybe that could be revisited?
Clearly the answer is to use sprinklers to keep the course drenched for all riders, then noone can gain an advantage no matter what the sky is doing.
Thing is it's not a question of "make an awesome rough and ready track and just accept that it might go to shit if it rains" vs "build an armoured bike park trail which is unchanging", there's tons of room between the two. There were at least 2 specific places on track where you just weren't going to Sam Hill yourself a miracle- once it got wet every rider lost several seconds in the exact same places and that's what breaks a race. But then most of the track didn't go like that so for me the fact that there's specific spots that need addressing before they use it again, suggests bad luck/unpredictable track development rather than a design/build issue. Definitely made the odds worse by having no test events though- made practice into pretty much a track-breaking-in session as much as a professional race event.
The grass bugs me though. Well, the grass plus the skinny jump, plus the position on track meaning you couldn't afford to lose any speed in it, a bad combo. And totally foreseeable, they knew they were rolling the dice. Bad for the race but I don't personally think it's OK to put the riders in that position either.
Have to say I still loved the race overall. I get why some people are so bummed about it, but I love the riding, as much as the racing. Seeing the world's best battle like that is awesome even if none of them had a chance of winning, it's a reminder if it were needed of just how hard it is and how good they are. Camera positions were mostly smart, and the director deserves credit for making sure the crowd noise was mic'd and so high in the mix- it felt amazing to hear the crowd again.
Yeah, I agree mostly with what you said. Saying that, I still like to have wide taped grass tracks, even in the wet. But yeah, my bum was definitely puckering up every time they were coming into that jump.
Also, it's worth noting that with the new qualifying rules it means you aren't going to have someone crash in qualifying (or just stop for 20 seconds) and then win the race because they come down before the rain. I think Troy Brosnan crashed in qualifying but he still came down around the same time as the other top guys so it's not given him an advantage in the overall.
Tory came down before the race winner so what ever advantage the winner had due to track conditions then so did Troy. I agree it got harder as the race went on but that’s the way the dice rolled this time, other times the later starters get the better track conditions
Tory came down before the race winner so what ever advantage the winner had due to track conditions then so did Troy.
My point is more that you don't get top 20 guys qualifying in 70th anymore and coming down way before anyone else. The conditions the top guys will now face will be generally similar.
Thibaut Daprela didn't have perfect conditions, by any means. It was already looking pretty slippy and he lost around a second and a half in the bottom section compared to the previous leader. It was an incredible ride, all things considered.
People have been saying Fort Bill is boring for 10 years. You don’t follow DH do you?
Not as close as some but I do, yeah. I've not heard people complain about FW much. I've heard some riders complain about pretty much every course including this one. 🤷♂️
I dunno why some people are so desperate to try and prove I'm wrong when it's a matter of personal opinion, but hey - welcome to the internet I suppose.
Daprela had a win coming soon whatever. Absolute beast of a rider.
Loved his run in the last one 😳
He was very impressive anyway, but I think this win will have scared a lot of the field.
If this year turns into a battle between Daprela & Troy for the overall, that'd be unexpected but very welcome.
That hill is difficult as it becomes a bog when wet as it's mostly just earth rather than rock.
Great race though. shame conditions weren't consistent for all.
Where was Claudio this week? Has he been ousted by Eliot Jackson?
Eliot is getting a try out at a few races this year.
Ousted is a strong word, but he had a very strong debut and I'd expect Red Bull would feel motivated to make him the permanent co-commentator if he maintains or improves that level.
That hill is difficult as it becomes a bog when wet as it’s mostly just earth rather than rock.
Weren't Wet Screams designed specifically for Les Gets?
Jackson is doing a great job in the commentary box. Him and Warner make a great combo and it already feels familiar. Jackson's course analysis is on point too.
I hope I'm in the process of being proved wrong by Tracey Hannah too. She seems to know the womens' field pretty well (as you would expect).
Weren’t Wet Screams designed specifically for Les Gets?
Ooohh, please let it be true. I love a sporting stat/titbit/fact....
Ooohh, please let it be true. I love a sporting stat/titbit/fact….
Good news for you then - they were designed for Les Gets
Good news for you then – they were designed for Les Gets
I'll be dropping that into a MTB-related conversation and passing it off as my own - at the first available opportunity!
😉
dannyh
Full MemberJackson is doing a great job in the commentary box. Him and Warner make a great combo and it already feels familiar. Jackson’s course analysis is on point too.’s course analysis is on point too.
I actually rated his pre-race course commentary higher than Cathros for this one, not sure who's got the better understanding but Jackson communicated it a bit better imo and also more enthusiastically/positively.
He felt over-prepared for the race almost, he had a little anecdote or fact about literally everything, "I was talking to..." "this is one of those tracks that..." and it ended up feeling a bit scripted and automatic, with less focus on what was actually happening right now on the mad hill. Nothing wrong with being knowledgable but for me it sucked out a bit of the feel of the race,I know he loves the sport so I want to hear that really. But still, not a bad start.
Day 1 in Maribor tomorrow. I'm excited for another weekend of the World Cup. Hopefully the weather is consistent through this one.
Actually, I like the weather making things unpredictable. Either way, looking forward to it. It quite difficult to predict a winner this season.
Is Reece commentating? Hes even better at that than riding his bike 😉
Not if he is riding !
Once again, can't recommend enough the Downtime podcast - Maribor pre-race show with Chris Kilmurray. Insane bike nerd levels of detail, such as difference between pro level and amateur braking bumps etc.
I've got over the irritating use of first names in this podcast (Loris this, Loic that) as, at the end of the day, the only people listening are gravity bike nerds like us who know who everyone is
The Pinkbike primer is also worth looking at for the the Dirt/Parkin bros round up from the 2010 season, the last WC there before the big layoff IIRC. I enjoyed that hit of nostalgia
I like Claudio but am enjoying having actual (well, recent!) racers doing some commentary.
They seem to have more detailed knowledge of the riders and what's going on, also much more intimate knowledge of the track and they can point out tiny details about certain features or bike handling skills that Rob/Claudio don't.
gravity bike nerds like us who know who everyone is
This sometimes bugs me about Wyn TV, love watching that but half the time I don't know who's who except the famous faces. I only normally see everyone with FF helmets on!
Wish he would put the names up on screen.
Look at the tiny ickle bikes!
I'd still ride Sam Hill's Sunday. It looks mint.
This sometimes bugs me about Wyn TV, love watching that but half the time I don’t know who’s who except the famous faces... Wish he would put the names up on screen.
Minimal graphics probably to get the vid live asap. I think the privateer bung he organises is supremely cool.
I enjoyed that Earthed 5 vid (above) - not seen that in ages. Sam Hill's imperial period. I love that gully that Minnar bombs down at 2:26 and then Bryceland does a sensational save at 3:20ish
Maribor's always been the WC track Id most love to ride.
