[Closed] watching someone die.... (Iran content)

...but ultimately what am i, or we, meant to do?

I think Gandhi offered the most realistic solution when he said,
" You must be the change you want to see in the world."

Your not "meant" to do anything. What you actually do is up to you. What you can actually do is mostly up to others.

In this case you would find it may be worthwhile speaking to organisations that help out there.

I spent two years working for a charity that made a difference to other peoples lives - one of the most satisfatory jobs Ive had. I was able to make a small difference. Dont do the normal thing of sending money, pestering your MP etc - its not going to change anything, other than satisfy your guilt. If you want to make a real difference and make it count find a charity that works on the ground in the area your concerned about and go and talk to them. Offer your services and / or support.

Dont do the normal thing of sending money,

I disagree. It supports bodies that can make a difference, as long as you are giving to the right one! It then allows them to do what you did which is putting people on the ground (respect to you for doing it)
Bringing political pressure to bear may feel like banging your head against a brick wall but there is a place for that also.

I do agree that contributing financially eases guilt however it does contribute significantly.

thats brutal to watch. so much blood... I want to watch it again for detail but feel a bit ill.

voyeurism

You can tell by looking at her eyes that she wants to live but you know that in the next few seconds she'll be dead. Horrible really.

Is it newsworthy because it's important, or is it important because it's newsworthy, or is it both because it got filmed?

Or is it the perfect story; a country under media scrutiny, a melodramatic death, available footage; guaranteed public outrage?

MTT if you think thats sexually exciting you need your head examined.

MTT if you think thats sexually exciting you need your head examined.

From; [url= http://www.answers.com/topic/voyeurism ]http://www.answers.com/topic/voyeurism[/url]

Voyeurism, particularly in film and cultural studies, has attracted much debate since the 1970s, often invoking psychoanalytical theories (see theories of photographic meaning). However, it can be straightforwardly defined as the pleasurable, illicit observation of someone else's intimate acts, usually but not necessarily sexual.

Alpin - I would urge caution in your response. The CIA have, historically, been heavily involved in supporting regime change in Iran. There is a danger that they again are heavily funding and supporting this "green" movement, in order to install their preferred puppet. That is my take on the whole thing anyway.

Having watched someone die, I do not want a repeat, so wont be watching it. It is voyeurism though and the response to this video is a horrible insight into the human psyche.

But because we perceive the shady hand of the CIA behind Mousaveni, anyone shooting young women dead in the street must be alright by comparison, yes? 🙄

Nope, but I saw someone die in a Subway sandwich shop last christmas

whats all this bullsh*t about voyeurism? what the hell has that got anything to do with this video whatsoever? It's about whats going on in Iran. seriously smee and MTT you don't have a *****ng clue 🙄

from your quote, MTT:

it can be straightforwardly defined as the pleasurable, illicit observation of someone else's intimate acts

What is pleasurable about watching blood spurting out of an innocent young girls face? sick f*cker.

BigDummy - no of course not. What I was referring to was helping what some may perceive as a spontaneous pro-democracy movement when in fact it may have some rather dubious backers if that makes sense.

It is all about the emotional response to propaganda and or terrorist attacks designed to create fear and panic. The OP was about the response to seeing something traumatic like that.

And the Shah was a lovely bloke, or Sadaam, or Pinochet, etc. The current regime aren't saints, but the replacement will be no better. I wish they are better don't get me wrong, but i doubt it.

bomberman - expand on that for me please. it doesn't get much more intimate than watching someone die. most people get ****ed a few times, but you only die once.

Could be debated for ages whether this should be released or not I suppose it's meant to try and highlight the troubles but it also helps sell papers and new stories. There's also sadly those that may get a kick out of it, I watched it of course. Not nice seeing someone die especially young people not something you get use to just learn to hide the emotions.

smee, where's the pleasure in it? or maybe you got a little stiffy watching it

[i]What is pleasurable about watching blood spurting out of an innocent young girls face? sick f*cker. [/i]

Well, you had the choice of either watching the clip or not.
If you chose to watch if, then it was undeniably to gratify a desire. Call it morbid curiosity if you prefer, but you still watched it for personal gratification.

[i]What is pleasurable about watching blood spurting out of an innocent young girls face? sick f*cker. [/i]

For most nothing but for some they will get a kick which is kind Smee's and MTT's point.

[i]Neda never set out to be a martyr: her boyfriend has said that she was with her music teacher when she briefly stepped out of the car, only to become caught up in history. Yet she is already on her way to becoming Iran's Joan of Arc,[/i]

In tragic instances like this I'm always a bit uneasy how the person, who can now not speak for themselves and give consent, is turned and used in the media. It does not look like she was involved in the protests, yet has become the central symbol in these events

IanMunro has put that extremely well.

Yes well said Ian, morbid curiousity is a much better way of describing it

which is kind Smee's and MTT's point.

I dont think it was their point, I think Ian phrased it correctly, whatever you wish to name it most people clicked through to see it.

Its funny, you can see a hundred people die on camera in films in exactly the same way, acted really well, looking just like that, but when theres reality behind it it knocks you sick.

[u]Thesaurus words for "voyeurism":[/u] active algolagnia, algolagnia, algolagny, amphierotism, autoeroticism, bisexuality, coprophilia, curiosity, curious mind, curiousness, exhibitionism, fetishism, ghoulishness, heterosexuality, homoeroticism, homosexualism, homosexuality, incest, incestuousness, inquiring mind, inquisitiveness, interest, itch for knowledge, lesbianism, lively interest, masochism, meddlesomeness, mental acquisitiveness, [b]morbid curiosity[/b], narcissism, necrophilia, nosiness, officiousness, paraphilia, passive algolagnia, pedophilia, prurience, prurient interest, prying, sadism, sadomasochism, sapphism, scopophilia, scotophilia, sexual inversion, sexual normality, sexual preference, swinging both ways, thirst for knowledge, transvestitism, tribadism, tribady, zooerastia, zoophilia

Edit: 'voyeurism' is actually used in the telegraph article, what point am I making coffeeking?

[i]I dont think it was their point, I think Ian phrased it correctly, whatever you wish to name it most people clicked through to see it.[/i]

We'll see but Ian is right in some ways, I clicked to see what it was about though not as for a morbid curiosity, more of I can't see how I can judge about it if I've not seen the evidence.

Curiosity once got the better of me and I watched some Jihadist beheadings on LiveLeak. BIG mistake, the images are now tatooed into my brain and anything like the video of this poor woman now seem tame in comparison.

Notice most of the news clips snip out the section where she looks desperately at teh camera and dribbles blood. They should show it in full detail (after the watershed), if people want to watch such things they should see the full detail, not a sanitised version.

sadly a lot of the news we see on television is sensored so as not to offend people. I agree that if people want the truth they should have the whole truth and not some watered down version of it that way people in this country could see just how lucky we actually are

MTT i think you are making the point that you found the video exciting in some way otherwise you wouldn't have labelled it "voyeurism"

Half the thesaurus results you have quoted there are only vaguely connected to the word voyeurism, and are inaccurate. for example "transvestite" and "sadomasochism".

I suppose it does class as voyuerism, but i think its important that everybody watches things like this. A lot of people live in a very comfortable bubble where bad things only happen elsewhere.

Its very humbling. She has become a simble of their cause - the protestors in Iran were incredibly brave, something we should take a hint from about our own crooked leaders.

there was an article on the Telegraph about how british media self-sensor a lot of images/videos. reason being the british press (people?) believe that intimate moments such as death and private family moments (although prehaps not so much more now, thanks to the red tops) are best left as intimate moments it isn't necessary to see all of the preceeding to understand what did/has happen/ed.

i spoke earlier to my iranian father-in-law. he said he'd already been sent the link having received it from his family still in iran.
supopsedly the footage isn't professionally filmed and was uploaded privately onto youtube.

he told me that last time he was there, march, people were openly critising the government and 'piss-take' or mocking images of Ahmed-tickinthehed were on view. ok, this wasn't in the capital iran; somewhere north-east but still a large town. people would discuss the usually 'forbidden' subject of politics and their political leaders anywhere; 'from the supermarket to the taxi' is his translated phrase of what he told me.

even if the CIA are involved it is alongside many normal iranians who are tired of their government. i don't think in the last revolution many really wanted what they have now, just an improvement upon a puppet Shah where things were bad, but a different bad from today.

It does not class as voyeurism unless you find it exciting. lets just get that one straight.

It does not class as voyeurism unless you find it exciting

No, I think this is a misnomer generated by the last 15 years of internet porn, voyeurism was never *solely* linked to sexual gratification, it is simply the act of viewing something for some ones own interest, it comes from French, meaning "to see" or "one who views or inspects". Unless you wish to re-define it for your own purpose here? 😀

i said exciting, Not sexually exciting, although the word has strong sexual connotations. Voyeurism is defined as GRATIFICATION through observation. finding pleasure in watching a young woman die in this way is not right. it may be voyeurism for some, but certainly not for me.

GO AND USE A DICTIONARY!

I am happy to see this discussion develop(bomberman's insightful 'contributions' aside), I have posted one word 'voyeurism' and two dictionary/thesaurus quotes and it appears I am a 'sick f*cker' for the apparent suggestion that this media may not have become the internet sensation (apologies) for the right reasons.

not really the issue, is it boys....?

having never met MTT i'll confidently say he doesn't get his kicks watching life fade from a young persons face as blood fills their lungs, then their throat and nose.

I am happy to see this discussion develop(bomberman's insightful 'contributions' aside)

if you look at the title of the original post you'll find that the discussion about wether or not this can be classed as voyeurism is relevant. The thread is about watching someone die. you said it's voyeurism, i say it isn't. what's not to contribute? unless you think your opinions are more relevant than mine?

alpin - you'd be right.

and bomberman;

MTT if you think thats sexually exciting you need your head examined.

seriously smee and MTT you don't have a *****ng clue

What is pleasurable about watching blood spurting out of an innocent young girls face? sick f*cker.

smee, where's the pleasure in it? or maybe you got a little stiffy watching it

Insightful.

I remember a video we were shown in work about fire saftey ,a towerblock in rio caught fire and a guy jumped out ,it showed a close-up after he hit the ground,still stuck in my memory even now,guess i,m not cut out to view that kind of thing,thank ****

So girl gets shot in the street, gets filmed dying, pics go round the world, and you lot end up slagging each other off?

Great, really good job there chaps... 🙄

first i've heard about that video and like an idiot i watched it.

absolutely everything aside (Iran,demonstrations,violence etc. etc.) Not only is that so shocking it does not warrant a second viewing it must be fantastic to know that a persons last moments on earth however they die is public domain for every idiot with an internet connection.

It's bad enough that poor girl had to die for absolutely no reason but the fact that everyone and their dog feels the need to comment on it or debate whether or not we should watch it.

The internet i'm sure is a wonderful thing, but I wonder how happy anyone on here would be knowing that if their child or partner died under horrible circumstances with nothing but fear in their eyes, and then 5 minutes later people are looping their last moments on a ****ing mountain bike website

This absolutely sickens me

like an idiot i watched it.

Don't be so hard on yourself

Ask yourself: If the Iranian regime could have suppressed that video, would they have?

The answer of course is yes, they would have.

So they would have deprived you of an important picture of what is going on in Iran.

By viewing it, however awful it makes you feel, you have informed yourself about the truth of the Iranian regime.

No doubt you have seen the British Army bulldozers shovelling emaciated corpses into grave pits in Belsen

Do you feel an idiot for watching that?

You're not a voyeuristic idiot - you're a witness to history

Get over yourself and watch as much footage out of Iran as you possibly can.

Witness is evidence

just watched it, horrible stuff.....
what happened to her to make that happen.
when it started she was stood up.

ton, you've obviously missed the news reports about the unfortunate young lady. She was in a car held up in traffic, got out for some air, and was murdered by a government militia sniper. While she was allegedly a supporter of the Green movement in Iran, she was a kilometer away from any protest, along with her music teacher. I personally feel no need to watch this poor girl's last moments, just reading about her fills me with an almost overwhelming sense of profound sorrow and anger. Sadly, I'm afraid there will be many more like her before there is any change to the regime in power in Iran.

bomberman,

Felt I had to comment over your self rightous anger at the others.

Firstly, I think the others were making a general comment that watching this footage was voyeuristic by many who viewed it - I do not think they were telling us that it was voyeuristic to them.

Secondly,voyeurism is the act of watching something for some sort of gratification.

NOT sexual gratification or for pleasure in all cases.

For example, you could watch it for the gratification you get from improving your understanding of the harsh political and military regime which exists in Iran.

The main problem seems to be that a word has numerous meanings, you choose one of those meanings and believe that when others use the word they are using it in the context you use it in.

Happens a lot on here.

As for the actual incident, people die horribly all over the world every day, often to ensure we continue to get access to cheap goods and resources.

It is a shame for that person and their family but not unusual.

To read and hear the comments you'd think no-one ever died unjustly and that this young woman was the first.

[i]The internet i'm sure is a wonderful thing, but I wonder how happy anyone on here would be knowing that if their child or partner died under horrible circumstances with nothing but fear in their eyes, and then 5 minutes later people are looping their last moments on a ****ing mountain bike website[/i]

Essentially it's no different then discussion such tragedies in a pub with you mates or at work, life is open to discussion.

>Essentially it's no different then discussion such tragedies in a pub with you mates or at work, life is open to discussion.

Except that your pub discussions aren't then available to anyone on t'internet who happens to be googling something. Unless your mates have really loud voices 🙂

There is something tells me that there are a lot of people on here who have mates with very loud voices...

I clicked the link yesterday. I must admit i clicked the link because i was intrigued to see someone die from being shot. Not really that bothered about its relevance in the whole Iran/Green thing. Lets face it, before i clicked the link i knew that things were bad and people had died. After i clicked the link i also knew things were bad and people had died. I think the comment about voyeurism (sp) is entirely relevant.

The actual video, well i was rather underwhelmed. It was grainy and all i saw was a young lady looking at the camera and then from a distance what looked to be lots of blood coming from her mouth/nose. Is it any worse than watching a 18 rated video?

Tis a sad fact but crap like that happens everyday. Morbid curiosity has led me to watch some mind buggeringly sick stuff on t'interweb.
My personal view is that ALL religion should be banned but I also reckon that everyone has the right to choose.

whatyagonnado?

[Is it any worse than watching a 18 rated video?]

Yes, because its real.

{No need for personal insults as well - Mod}

Maybe we should send Harry Patch over there. He's seen far worse than any of us could ever imagine. I'm sure he'd verbally bang some heads together.