Everybody thinks so, but the experience of Portugal is that decriminalisation has made little to no effect on users experience
Citation needed. I thought there was pretty clear evidence Portugal's policies had lead to better outcomes. Your view certainly seems very one-sided. If you were arguing the picture is mixed it might be more credible.
Eg
If we are to legalise them, then we have to be prepared for their abuse
Ah yes, the abuse that will start once they are legalised, that definitely isn't happening now. 🤦♂️
In some [parts of the UK 50+% of all crime is heroin addicts looking for money for a fix. Imagine a policy that could reduce crime by 50%?
Have you a reference for that ( curiosity not arguing).
And the day after they announce their latest crackdown in the war on drugs, the figures show that alcohol related deaths went up by 19% last year. The largest increase on record.
What are the government proposing to do about that?
The awkward truth is that as alcahol and tobacco are already legal, making them illegal will cause an uproar, and parhaps more importantly, the govenment enjoys a healthy cash injection from the taxes applied to them, so if they made them class A on health grounds, that lost tax income would have to be pilfered elsewhere somehow.
And we'd see a huge black market in moonshine run by 'gangs' just like we see with illegal drugs currently, with all the issues that wider sociatal issues that criminality brings with it.
Thanks to the states already running that particular social experiment, we already know what prohibition looks like. And they've also done the one with some bits dry and other bits not and that seems to work equally well. As in, folk just go elsewhere for their weekly poison.
What are the government proposing to do about that?
Build a seven lane motorway bridge from Lowestoft to Margate.
@kilo - not sure if TJ has a UK reference but this paper describes stats for Australia, US in the Intro:
the definitions of crime are probably not consistent between different studies. I think often it is "acquisitive" crime or "property crime" that is quoted. But 2/3rds of Scottish murders are linked to drugs: https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,more-than-twothirds-of-scotlands-murders-are-drugrelated.
But my gut feel is >50% of criminal offences reported to, or prosecuted by the police will be road traffic matters so the "headline" is probably wrong in terms of all crime.
I thought there was pretty clear evidence Portugal’s policies had lead to better outcomes.
Some pretty impressive gains regarding health outcomes for some users, counter intuitively some drug users are now getting longer sentences (some custodial) depending on the quantity of drugs in their possession, the laws made no difference to criminal activity which is still a different set of laws. Confusion around the public body responsible for drug rehabilitation has reduced the impact of social improvements seen at the start.
it's complex. I agree, it's mixed, and not as clear cut as I first said.
I'd have to search for the crime thing but yes it was 50% - 75% of petty crime not including road crime in some localities
Its the muggings, the housebreakings, shoplifting, that sort of thing. the stuff that blights localities
If you are a heroin addict you need a couple of hundred pound as a week minimum to support your habit. Crime is the only place to get that money and to get £100 you need to steal £1000 worth of stuff.
While working alongside the police every shoplifter and housebreaker I saw was a heroin addict. I didn't see a single one who was not
Tell you what...How about not only removing passports and driving licences, how about removing the right to vote as well.
Think the Government has missed a trick there...
Old news stories I haven't read them in depth
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/drug-addicts-commit-half-of-property-crimes-1393516.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1846910.stm
Tell you what…How about not only removing passports and driving licences, how about removing the right to vote as well.
Think the Government has missed a trick there…
Would that include voting in Parliament?
Cheers to poly & tj, it’s not so much that drugs feed crime stats I was curious about more if heroin had held off crack as the poison of choice, a crack’n’smack cocktail seems a popular choice.
Kraak n Smaak
Saw this on the News last night but with the volume turned down.
Assumed it was just another opportunity for Boris to indulge in a bit of cosplay. Looks like I wasn't wrong.
Looking forward to the War on Crime being announced, accompanied by Boris in a Batman suit and PP dressed up as Robin.
A good summary of the whole ridiculous charade in today’s Guardian
The Tories don’t want a modern drugs strategy – they prefer outdated macho rhetoric
This purportedly groundbreaking new drug strategy admits that the current policy is not working, and then promises to continue heedlessly with its failed vision
They know it won’t have any impact. They don’t care. This is simply designed to appeal to their hang’em and flog’em base
I'll also bet the rehab money promised never ends up in rehab at all
This isn't really a question of the harm drugs will cause, the legal status has very little effect on availability really, so it's a moot question.
The question is why would you leave billions of pounds in the hands of criminal gangs.
Cause that's the true effect of prohibition. It's an utterly baffling stance. It makes no logical sense.
I’ll also bet the rehab money promised never ends up in rehab at all
The wording on the BBC north west news last night was telling.
They were reporting that there ‘could’ be additional money for drug rehab services in the region.
Shall we take bets on the chances of any of it ever materialising?
Shall we file it with those 40 new hospitals?
As for Boris, it's just waffle, he'll do nothing.
tbh, I can see the like of cannabis being legalised anyhow within about 10 years. They've sold off everything, so they'll need to look to other sources to make money.
Shall we take bets on any of it ever materialising?
If it does it will be delivered by someone Serco with Dido Harding in charge, and will cost millions to run some drop-in treaemt services no one can actually access. These will be quietly shelved 3 months later citing a lack of demand, but with all the money mysteriously gone.
I wonder will it be like the sus laws, just another excuse to be roughing over kids? Every failing PM needs a war.
A good summary of the whole ridiculous charade in today’s Guardian
The Tories don’t want a modern drugs strategy – they prefer outdated macho rhetoric
Without taking anything away from the Grauniad, you can replace the word "drugs" with pretty much any word you like, and it's still valid. Picking some biggies at random:
The Tories don’t want a modern trade strategy – they prefer outdated macho rhetoric.
The Tories don’t want a modern foreign policy strategy – they prefer outdated macho rhetoric.
The Tories don’t want a modern immigration strategy – they prefer outdated macho rhetoric.
A very valid point.
The continuation of the Brexit Britain strategy of returning everything back to some indeterminate point in the past that probably didn’t actually exist anyway
Take us back to the 50s before the drug prohibition! do you think we could sell that proposition to them?
Let's be honest here, the reason 'something is being done' about drugs now is because it is a problem which cannot be ignored.
I remember when County lines started around us, maybe 10 years ago. The local plod were told (by their seniors) to hold off busting anyone as there was a 'big plan' in place to sort it all out.
There wasn't: public sector cuts meant resources were allocated elsewhere.
So whereas previously, we tolerated a bit of weed, we now have entrenched hard drug use, consistent supply and a viable marketplace for the foreseeable future.
I have no sympathy with the current policy as it could and should have been dealt with back in 2010.
I think there will always be 'drugs' in some form or another but what we need is a long term strategy that works for local communities.
The reason for this now is because Johnson has been losing the party faithful and war on drugs is a good way to tickle their fancy
As NIckc posted even in the tory party they know the war on drugs is an utter failure. there is precisely zero will to take the steps required as it does not pander to the prejudices of their core and the tory press
Domestic drug laws aside, surely you can't just have your passport taken away? sounds like a knee jerk precident like that, is the thin end of a draconian wedge.
To be clear, I'm not saying that you should be granted entry into a country if you have certain types of criminal record, but to take your passport away ammounts to removing your citizeship, surely?
"but to take your passport away ammounts to removing your citizeship, surely?"
Windrush 2.0
Do we really think this will result in the prosecution of the middle classes or an increase in stop and search in the inner cities? (or anyone elsewhere in the country who fits certain descriptions.
No, just more puerile posturing from a PM with a very long record of puerile posturing.
Macron called him a clown, he simply vocalised what the entire world is already thinking. A bit brash for the leader of another nation so be so blunt, some might say, but at what point do other heads of state have to stop pretending, and that they are actually dealing with a duplicitous moron like our PM?
I must admit I am kind of sad to be retired 'cos doing the drug rounds in a care home when our generation get there will be funny
couple of eccies for you Mr Smith? Half a gramme of madam alright for you tonight Mr Jones? Mr Nosebag - you needing your vallies to settle down for tonight after your big day on the charlie? I'll mark Mr brown down for nowt - he is still gouching from todays smack 🙂
One of the most annoying things about this idea is that it seems it might end up be easier to remove someone's driving license after taking drugs than it does following a road death.
