[Closed] Vegetarians.

I don't understand the need to beat a drum about it. Why the strong feelings? Is it because somebody said something incorrect?

PS I am explaining here not actually suggesting I care that much.

PPS
Origin of the Word "Vegetarian"
The word vegetarian, coined by the founders of the British Vegetarian Society in 1842, comes from the Latin word vegetus, meaning "whole, sound, fresh, or lively," as in homo vegetus-a mentally and physically vigorous person. The original meaning of the word implies a balanced philosophical and moral sense of life, a lot more than just a diet of vegetables and fruits.

# Origin of the Word "Vegan"
The word vegan pronounced /ˈviːgən/ [vee-gun], was originally derived from vegetarian in 1944 when Elsie Shrigley and Donald Watson, frustrated that the term "vegetarianism" had come to include the eating of dairy products, founded the UK Vegan Society. "Vegan", which they saw as "the beginning and end of vegetarian", started and ended with the first three and last two letters of vegetarian.

I think it is more that people then expect a vegetarian to eat fish rather than they care that much about what you say tbh.

Moreover, if a dish is claimed to be "suitable for vegetarians", I'd like to be able to trust that description.

The reality is only a tiny fraction of people who describe themselves as a veggie eat fish and an even smaller percentage who eat meat ad there are other words that describe that diet more accurately.

I've found it's more common in the US than here, to be fair; more than once I've come across "vegetarian" to be understood to mean "no red meat."

The problem is that it muddies the waters.

My arse, it does. I haven't seen a vegetarian option in a pub in years that had any animal flesh whatsoever (in fact, I'm not sure I ever have; certainly don't remember). I wonder where folk go to eat sometimes. I like being mostly veggie. Actually, looking at the etymology behind the word, I think my philosophy towards food could be described as vegetarian.

So, yeah, I'm a vegetarian. But I eat a little fish and meat sometimes. 😀

I know a "veggie" who simply does not eat red meat but will eat chicken and fish.
It is like claiming you are a non smoker because you dont smoke cigars or mostly a non smoker because you dont smoke pipes etc...in reality the phrase occasional smoker and occasional meat eater is more accurate IMHO

I haven't seen a vegetarian option in a pub in years that had any animal flesh whatsoever

No, I'm vegetarian now.

And my vegetarian wife had veggie Fish and Chips on Sunday. 😆

I had the vegetarian beef.

But the word "vegetarian" is not derived from "vegetable".

Depends who you choose to believe

Depends who you choose to believe

There's a debate?

EDIT: I should add that I will be sticking with the definition that allows me to be a vegetarian who occasionally has some meat and/or fish.

Yeh, but Id need my monster dictionary to find details of it unfortunately.

One of those big papery ones where you had to look for the word rather than double clicking.

I miss that dictionary, should go an retrieve it at some point. Could come in handy as a lethal weapon if dropped out of a window.

I've been a vegetarian for about 8 years, 1 of which was vegan. My partner's vegan (attempt 3) and she's happier/healthier for it. I rarely eat eggs and have a low, highly appreciated intake of dairy.

I eat far better than when I ate meat and manage to fuel myself as both a rider and climber (rocks, not just hills) quite adequately. As mentioned, a balanced diet with a little knowledge of food groups and easy/tasty combinations makes it rather easy.

Mexican, Indian, Japanese, Thai and Italian food have extensive amounts of either vegetarian or nearly vegetarian dishes which are easily adapted. You can always do pie, mash and veg. It needn't all be a fancy faff.

Sainsbury's veggie freezer section is great, it adds some variety and means you can have lazy dinners too. I have always viewed the meat replacements as another type of food rather than a substitute and I think it helps to appreciate them. Bean burgers for example are a million miles from a 1/4 pounder, but they're not bad in a bap with some sauce and salad.

I started and thought of it as 1 day at a time for as long as I wanted to do it. It's just normal now.

PS red Bisto is vegetarian and a lot nicer than the green stuff 😉

Mrs Ed was a veggie when she was younger and in italy one of her aunties was making pasta, she asked for vegetarian pasta and got the pasta that had been rolled around the meat sauce pan after all the sauce had been dished out - there wasn't any big bits of meat so that was ok huh ? 🙂

and yet in italy there are lots of really nice meat free dishes (the pasta course will be more often than not veggie in italy in a multi course meal)

I can see the attraction to a certain extent, I would rather go without than eat cheap meat but then again a really well butchered piece of meat from a farm that treats its animals well I don't see the issue

I love lettuce and gravy sandwiches

My arse, it does. I haven't seen a vegetarian option in a pub in years that had any animal flesh whatsoever (in fact, I'm not sure I ever have; certainly don't remember).

Having been a vegetarian for over 20 years now, I can guarantee you that it happens, despite your bottom's protestations to the contrary. It's probably less noticable if you're vegetarian or not depending how you feel that day (which isn't a dig, just means you're less directly affected).

I will be sticking with the definition that allows me to be a vegetarian who occasionally has some meat and/or fish.

PS red Bisto is vegetarian and a lot nicer than the green stuff

The brown 'Bisto Best' onion gravy is better than all of them.

Oh, I'd notice alright, mrs deadly would be the first to let me know.

I'm sticking with "vegetarian who eats meat and fish occasionally". It's you that seems to want to take the word to mean that you don't eat animal flesh. Despite the original meaning not specifying this. Looks like you need a new word. At least the vegans have one that seems to shape up. And to find some decent places to eat. And to stop beating drums.

if you only ride your bike occasionally are you a "mostly non-cyclist"?

Now that's some shoehorning.

You see, this is why I don't bother telling people I'm vegetarian usually - put yourself in a category, and people start making up rules for you 😉

It's you that seems to want to take the word to mean that you don't eat animal flesh

If I'm out, or in a hotel, and I don'y fancy the meat course then I'll tell people I'm vegetarian. If they then come up with a nice fish dish as an alternative then I'll usually have that.
Happens most often at breakfast in hotels. Not always keen on "traditional english" but if you claim to be veggy, they often find a nice bit of smoked haddock or something out in the kitchen. Works a treat. 😉

Hmmm bacon 8)

I think if I were to make the *moral* choice of being a veggie - the Morrisey style meat is murder thing. I'd have to avoid ALL animal products, just so no other higher moral playground type person could have a go at me about my hypocritical gelatinous tangfastics, or leather walking boots, or something I might have missed on the moral list!

If I'm out, or in a hotel, and I don'y fancy the meat course then I'll tell people I'm vegetarian. If they then come up with a nice fish dish as an alternative then I'll usually have that.
Happens most often at breakfast in hotels. Not always keen on "traditional english" but if you claim to be veggy, they often find a nice bit of smoked haddock or something out in the kitchen. Works a treat.

Impossible, according to DD that never happens.

I think if I were to make the *moral* choice of being a veggie - the Morrisey style meat is murder thing. I'd have to avoid ALL animal products, just so no other higher moral playground type person could have a go at me about my hypocritical gelatinous tangfastics, or leather walking boots, or something I might have missed on the moral list!

Correct as far as it goes, but a massive oversimplification. I don't eat my shoes.

I think if I were to make the *moral* choice of being a [s]veggie[/s]meat eater [s]- the Morrisey style meat is murder thing.[/s] I'd have to [s]avoid[/s]eat ALL animal products and all animals including dogs,cats insects and slugs and all parts including testicles and brains , just so no other higher moral playground type person could have a go at me about my hypocritical [s]gelatinous tangfastics, or leather walking boots, or[/s]views on what animals and parts I will and wont eat a or something I might have missed on the moral list!

Its pointless to claim hypocrisy as either "side" could do it

haha cool. Like it 😀

Happens most often at breakfast in hotels. Not always keen on "traditional english" but if you claim to be veggy, they often find a nice bit of smoked haddock or something out in the kitchen. Works a treat.

I have literally no clue as to why this means you need to say you're vegetarian... Particularly when it's based on a falsehood and you are essentially playing the odds and relying on the catering staff to share this falsehood... What happens if you get a waiter who has a GCSE or two?

If you want fish for breakfast, can you not just ask for fish, or is it a special hotel that requires its guests to be a bit mental?
Do you have to pretend to be something you are not for every request that you have or is it just food-based requests? Strange hotel....
🙄

Besides such randomness, if you wake up one morning in your special hotel and fancy beans on toast, or muesli and a boiled egg, or a cheese sandwich, why does this mean you need to pretend to be vegetarian? Every meal that does not contain meat does not need to be labeled 'vegetarian'.... It's just food innit... 🙂

Impossible, according to DD that never happens.

Tut, tut. That's not what I said.

DD you gave him a leg-up onto his horse and now he's too far away to hear properly 😀

Going back to the original post...

I'm veggie curious myself and would appreciate any links or advice re cycling meat free.

[url= http://www.veganfitness.net/viewforum.php?f=18 ]Cycling sub-forum on Vegan Fitness[/url]

[url=

Cyclists Facebook group[/url]

[url= http://vegetariancac.org/ ]Vegetarian Cycling and Athletics Club[/url]

[url= https://www.facebook.com/VegetarianCyclingandAthleticClub?fref=ts ]Vegetarian Cycling and Athletics Club on Facebook[/url]

[url= http://www.greatveganathletes.com/cyclists ]List of vegan racing cyclists[/url]

Any specific questions ?
I haven't been to France as an adult or as a vegan, but I am Worcestershire's Fastest Veteran Vegan Mountain Bike Endurance Racer and I've been camping in Southern Ireland with two other vegans, so I know it can be done.

MidlandTrailquestsGraham
I am Worcestershire's Fastest Veteran Vegan Mountain Bike Endurance Racer

That's got to deserve some sort of certificate surely! 😀

deadlydarcy - Member

Tut, tut. That's not what I said.

I don't mean to twist your words, so apologies if I've misread. But as far as I can see, it's exactly what you said.

Kevevs suggested that claiming to be veggie netted him a "nice fish dish" or a "bit of smoked haddock", whereas as you asserted that you hadn't seen a vegetarian dish in years, if ever, that contained animal. Now either one of you is incorrect, or by "not what you said" you're going to be employing some linguistic pedantry along the lines of you talking about pubs and Kevevs about hotels or something.

What am I missing here?

yo kevevs

1. full of shit
2. loves vegetables and meaty treats in eaqual order. don't diss ma vegetables or pork loin bitches
3. cannot spell eaqual

Vaguely on-topic,

If anyone's interested in going to a veggie food show, you can get free tickets here: http://www.v-delicious.co.uk/go/savingallergy

easy enough to avoid eating meat in france, you may have to do a bit of your own cooking, but is that so bad.

Went a few times cyclo/camping to watch the tour with a posse of eight or ten, some were vegetarians,so we all adopted that for the week whilst cooking the evening meal-- even eating out wasn't a problem.

Meat is overconsumed in the west to such an extent we have huge medical problems associated with it-- the meat industry,like sugar, is very powerful, has altered the way 'we' eat., and not for our benefit...

I don't mean to twist your words, so apologies if I've misread. But as far as I can see, it's exactly what you said.

It's really not. To be fair, I was having a giggle with/at JY and you prob took me a bit at face value, which is fine. I didn't say anything was "impossible". It's today's Brizzle Defence.

I have literally no clue as to why this means you need to say you're vegetarian... Particularly when it's based on a falsehood and you are essentially playing the odds and relying on the catering staff to share this falsehood... What happens if you get a waiter who has a GCSE or two?

If you want fish for breakfast, can you not just ask for fish, or is it a special hotel that requires its guests to be a bit mental?
Do you have to pretend to be something you are not for every request that you have or is it just food-based requests? Strange hotel....

Besides such randomness, if you wake up one morning in your special hotel and fancy beans on toast, or muesli and a boiled egg, or a cheese sandwich, why does this mean you need to pretend to be vegetarian? Every meal that does not contain meat does not need to be labeled 'vegetarian'.... It's just food innit...

Don't need to. Chose to, from experience, it works.
It doesn't matter what you think the definition is, it's understood that way in a lot of catering. So if you speak the same language as them, you're more likely to get what you want.

And if I get up in the morning and fancy a vegetarian breakfast rather than traditional English, it's not a problem. In that situation, to them as a customer, I'm vegetarian. They don't want or need to know the history, or why. Whether I was one the day before, or will be one the next day is of no concern at that mealtime.
Who's to say vegetarianism is a permanent state? Partial, or part-time, vegetarianism is just as valid an option. Restaurants certainly don't care beyond the meal that you're ordering.

Why do you need to tell people you're vegetarian if want a meat-free breakfast? What's stopping you just ordering a veggie breakfast? Do you tell people you don't eat chicken every time you order a beefburger?

Weird.

I can't understand why this keeps coming up but, VEGETARIANS BY DEFINITION DO NOT EAT FISH....

Easy tiger - you'll blow something.

It's usually easier saying "I'm a vegetarian" than "I'm a pescetarian".

But that still doesn't excuse the chicken thing...

Why do you need to tell people you're vegetarian if want a meat-free breakfast?

the fact that being vegie/vegan is mostly just being a fussy bugger* (just as in junkyards example, meat eaters turning their noses up at slugs and cockroaches) doesn't seem to come into it.

*yes there are valid moral/ethical issues but veggies generally are fully able to eat and digest meat/dairy unlike lactose gluten etc intolerances

<edit> but I do agree "I'm a vegie who eats fish" should earn you a slap in the face with a wet fish. My sister tried that one, a certain amount of mockage ensued.

at a guess
i don't want what you are offering = fussy bugger, get bent.
I can't eat what you are offering = oh you poor soul I'll knock you up something special.

"I don't fancy a cooked breakfast today thanks, could I just have the continental / eggs and beans?"

Offering a meal [i]without[/i] something is hardly "knocking up something special." Do I have to tell them I'm a fasting Buddhist if I decide to skip breakfast completely?

i don't want what you are offering = fussy bugger, get bent.
I can't eat what you are offering = oh you poor soul I'll knock you up something special.
the fact that being vegie/vegan is mostly just being a fussy bugger* (just as in junkyards example, meat eaters turning their noses up at slugs and cockroaches) doesn't seem to come into it.

*yes there are valid moral/ethical issues but veggies generally are fully able to eat and digest meat/dairy unlike lactose gluten etc intolerances

<edit> but I do agree "I'm a vegie who eats fish" should earn you a slap in the face with a wet fish. My sister tried that one, a certain amount of mockage ensued.

in the early years of me being vegan (early 90s), even in the UK in some restaurants it could be very difficult to explain why you wanted to know if there were any animal (meat/dairy/egg) products or ingredients in a dish.
the simplest, albeit deceitful, way to get around this was to inform the staff that you were allergic to dairy/eggs/cow/pig/horse and there's a good chance you'd die in their restaurant if they served you up egg pasta, or soup with cream in it or whatever.

cougar, again Im guessing but iirc most B&B and similar offer full english or continental (ie muesli/fruit rubbish) whoever it was who first started this (cba checking) decides they want something different so pull the faux veggie card, I can see how it would work but I'd be too busy troffing on the piggy wigs and Gallus Domesticus ovulations.

Forget about the "Veggie but eat fish" thing. Where do people stand on eggs? In my book that's not vegetarian but many "veggie" dishes contain eggs.

Eggs are clearly animal DNA so how can these meals be classed as vegetarian?

Where do people stand on eggs?

Antarctica? I assume it's penguins you are referring to.. 😉

if I get up in the morning and fancy a vegetarian breakfast rather than traditional English

Well if it's listed as a veggie breakfast, in other words, same as a full-English but without all the deceased bits of animal, then by all means ask for a veggie breakfast, but beans on toast, or egg on toast, or muesli..isn't a vegetarian breakfast, it's just food.. You do not need to make that distinction.
As mentioned before, keeping on with this false description of what constitutes a vegetarian diet, really makes it harder for those of us who are trying to be vegetarian.
If you want toast dude, ask for toast..stop with the labels already.
🙂

Eggs are clearly animal DNA so how can these meals be classed as vegetarian?

Eggs are clearly animal DNA so how can these meals be classed as vegetarian?

Cos the chicken doesn't die, and the egg's not meat.

Vegans wouldn't eat the egg.