[Closed] vegetarian - why?

What on earth do they put in beer that would make it unsuitable for vegetarians?

Not sure about the veggies, but real ale uses animal products in the manufacturing processing, hence why it's out for vegans.

I like meat

and I like a land ruled by man not beast . . .

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shivvverrrs . . .

What on earth do they put in beer that would make it unsuitable for vegetarians?

Its something to do with fish, cant remember what though

do vegetarians refuse to look after pets? after all... a lot of pets kill other animals, cats for example.

the local cats eat more meat than me.

I'm sort of veggie, because of my other half. I don't purchase meat/meat based food stuffs where there is little reassurance to the locality and animal welfare. Meat factory food is pretty grim in taste and texture (compared to something like a cared for and fed correctly animal) and, a factory of death is not something I wish to support.

I eat fish, so long as it's sourced from sustainable reserves and so does my other half.

Not forgetting the cost, why pay £5 for some cr*p chicken breasts, which don't taste of much, were fed growth hormones/etc in their diet and you know it's had a pretty poor standard of life before imminent death, where I can buy more than enough veg and have a damned tasty meal that is ultimately healthier for me for less money.

hope this helps

jt

I've never understood why some of them are so anal about the whole thing. Not eating a vegetarian food just because its been on the same plate as some meat? WTF?

Some of them don't even eat honey! HONEY! how can you be cruel to a bee?? its barely got 3 brain cells probably.

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with only 20000 edible plants in the world, it can get a bit repetitive

I'm still working my way through the thousands of edible animals before I start on the plants.

So far I've only ticked off cows, sheep, chickens, pigs, pigeons, ostriches, alligators, numerous fish species, snails, crabs, ducks, geese, rabbits, mussels, prawns, lobsters, pheasants ...

Still loads more lovely juicy succulent meat to get through before plants even get a look in ...

Some of them don't even eat honey! HONEY!

Now that's just plain stupid 😕

Now that's just plain stupid

well, that's just bee puke! Who'd want to eat that??

Not forgetting the cost, why pay £5 for some cr*p chicken breasts, which don't taste of much, were fed growth hormones/etc in their diet and you know it's had a pretty poor standard of life before imminent death

True, but that's not an argument for vegetarianism. I pay £7 for a free-range, organic whole chicken, and joint it myself. I can get 3 meals for 2 people out of that, plus the bones make a great stock.

Interesting article on vegan beer, there is a reason it seems. [url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_beer [/url]

Blimey this moved on eh..

Ok, so Mrs BikeBouy turned veggie on/or abouts her 18th birthday and has been that way ever since, Moi, kinda kicked meat into touch from about 20odd (though still ate meat, just maybe once a month) now I eat meat say once every three months when FarmerBouy kills something and only then it's probably because I'm getting to the point of curiosity again, but the OH simply refuses.
Her reasons for turning veggie waybackwhen were simply because she can't stand the thought of eating flesh or veins. From then on she went a bit politial on it and stired a few hornets nests whilst at Uni. yadda yadda.. but when she was about 28 she started to eat fish because of the Omega3 elements she was missing in her diet and it continued. Though she'll never fillet a fish, she certainly eats them "top n tailed" and well prepared by yours truely (herumph, good job I spent sometime at Rick Steins then eh).
She's missing a lot of B12 at the moment and we're looking to bolster that in both our diets so Marmite overdoses are imminent.
She approves of sustainable farming methods BTW and has no hangups on what I eat (if I choose meat or not) She'll not preach to others neither which is so refreshing.
I admire her for sticking to it TBH, shes an amazing cook and can turn her hand to inspirational dishes that really makes you wonder why you would throw meat into the dish at all..
Sometimes I'm weak though and a succulant rare steak makes me all horny, so I just have to.

(walks of blushing)

Omega3 elements she was missing in her diet and it continued

There's far too much sanctimonious holier-than-thou bs about killing animals imo

It's going to die anyway, might as well have it for ourselves. If I had to choose a last meal it wouldn't be quinoa salad it would be a super-rare filet mignon

Plenty of seed /nut mixes if she is worried

But what would we do with all the cows?

Blimey if we eat more Nuts we'll go..

Nuts.

hello!

i'd like to respond to some points raised in this thread.
first off though, although i've been vegan for over 20 years myself and am pretty opposed to the eating of animal products, i fully support the right of anyone to make informed decisions for themselves and with that in mind none of this should be considered as moralising or preaching.

why dont vegans refuse to use roads? loads of animals are killed to make roads....

are vegans against abortion?

would a vegan eat a carrot if i stuck googly eyes on it and drew on a sad face with a pen?

do vegans perform oral sex?

all valuable questions....

roads- i'm sure some do. i know plenty who won't drive. not me though. you do the best you feel able to do. we're ALL hypocrites to some extent when it comes down to it, unless we are absolutely amoral and genuinely do not care about a single thing.

abortion- yeah, lots of vegans are anti-abortion. same as lots of omnivores really. it has nothing to do with veganism. FWIW, i completely support a woman's right to choose.

the carrot- only if you used plant-based inks, non-toxic of course.

oral sex- yeah. why not? you'd be mad not to, it's loads of fun. again, nothing to do with veganism. although obviously, i suspect you know this and these are actually NOT important questions phil!

What on earth do they put in beer that would make it unsuitable for vegetarians? I have the same thoughts when I see vegetarian cheese?

beer- isinglass. it's used to filter some beers, and it is made from a fish's swim bladder.
as someone else said, non-veggie cheese contains rennet (which is made from a cow's stomach lining).

[s]BBQs[/s] eating must be boring at a vegan's house.

I do. I love cooking. Hence I fear I'd find a full-time vegan diet incredibly restrictive. I often look at veggie options to cook but generally find them uninspiring.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong if you fancy posting some recipes though

BBQs, and indeed eating in general, are far from boring at mine. i'd suggest that they might not appeal to a lot of omnivores though, but let's not confuse that with being boring, eh?

to be honest, if Anything i find that a vegan diet is probably far more varied and interesting just because if you want to do it properly and eat healthy, balanced foods/dishes, you HAVE to put more effort into your cooking.

Actually, whilst we are on about it if any of the vegans on here could let me know where I can get sutiable fat to use in baking that would be great. I've used some of the PURE stuff that comes in tubs and is ostensibly spredable but that didn't work too well, at least I didn't think so. I'd like to know if there is any solid stuff that comes in packs like butter.

i find that Pure or Vitalite works fine for most baking applications too, but if you want to try other solid fats then there's Tomor (which is a hard margarine, kosher and non-dairy based) or in place of lard then Trex is animal free too.

there are plenty of vegan alternatives for all the nutrients you need.

True, but some non vegan ones are in forms that are more readily accesible to your body than the vegan ones.

It's going to die anyway

It wouldn't have even been born if it wasn't going to get eaten.

If everyone in the world was to become vegetarian many breeds would become extinct.

Aye oop fella

*waves at xherbivorex*

wondered when you'd be along. You is late innit?

alreet binners! i've been out for a bit of a bike ride this afternoon sir!

True, but some non vegan ones are in forms that are more readily accesible to your body than the vegan ones.

I do not doubt it, but is that a strong enough reason to eat meat?

Good on you fella. Anywhere good? You coming to Delamere on Sunday?

Thanks for the answers. Had no idea about the beer and cheese thing. You live and learn

True, but some non vegan ones are in forms that are more readily accesible to your body than the vegan ones.

If everyone in the world was to become vegetarian many breeds would become extinct.

Re fat I have no issue with pure or vitalite but tbh I usually use a bater mix for [sponge]cakes using liquid vegeatable oil

Good on you fella. Anywhere good? You coming to Delamere on Sunday?

nah, just over round the usual water park stuff. going stir crazy on the rock'n'roll, you know!
can't make delamere, we've got a race to organise up at lee quarry on sunday. agh.

Never been a veggie, I like meat too much to do that.

I got involved with a girl a while ago now, I didn't realise at the time and despite the (now obvious) signs she was a proper vegan. At first I thought she was just on some sort of diet, but she got more & more neurotic - hugely confrontational about anything surrounding a potential vegan lifestyle issue, yet brilliantly hyprocrital at the same time.

Doesn't bother me if people want to be veggies, vegans or whatever, just as long as they don't try & constantly force their opinion on others when it's not wanted.

Fantastic norks though.

xherbivorex -you are correct, they weren't serious questions 🙂

apart from the road one... as much as i'd never argue with a veganatarian as i believe its their choice, fair play to 'em.... its a question i have sometimes wondered about, i'm struggling to think of a single thing that humans do that hasnt (at some point) impacted on another animal, even working in a vets to save animals involves building the vets building itself!

to put yourself in a position where you do absolutely no harm to other animals would mean having to kill yourself as far as i can see, so as long as people can be honest with themselves and think 'yeah a chicken wont die, but i admit i did use a road that was built over a badgers den this morning' then i'm a happy bunny 😀 i like people who are self-aware and can reflect on their own actions.

Mrs PP is veggie, I'm not. I respect her choice and she respect mine. We have no problem with it either way.

But I do not like having the whys and wherefores shoved down my throat, especially BS like this:

I dont know if anyone has told you this but killing things is not nice so I dont do it

Which is utter drivel. I'll do it if I want (And I have done) becasue I believe that humans are naturally omnivores, are they not? (which is why we have canine teeth FWIW) I like meat, so it'll eat it. My choice.

Fantastic norks though

I mean Ive got no problem with people eating meat.

But cannibalism?!?!?!

I find it weird how some vegitarians claim to be vegetarians, but eat fish/chicken/bacon on occasions.

I was under the impression that vegitarians abstain from all meat. If not, then your not vegetarian IMO. Apprecaite that there might be the the occasional lapse via accident/nessecity, but to voluntarily eat meat on an infrequent basis, means your a meat eater, i think.

even working in a vets to save animals

I think that is a bit of a myth, vets - specifically large animal vets are an important part of farming - essentially keeping animals healthy and alive so that farmers can maximise their profits (or at least stay in business). I'm not against it in anyway, but I think people should at least be aware of what a vet actually does.

My Dad is a vet and often used to have kids do the farm rounds with him as work experience, a large proportion of them are put off by the implications of what a vet does (and the cold,sheete,stench, long days, night work, crap money).

I do not doubt it, but is that a strong enough reason to eat meat?

No, but then is the fact that there are vegan alternatives exist a strong enough reason not to eat meat? For some not doubt the answer is yes, for others no. I do however think it is important for those switching their diets to realise this so that they can make sure their diet reamins balanced.

examples - and a genuine question. Do you mean more abundant sources rather then readily accesible? eg Iron?

sort of yes. Iron is available in many veg but in a different form than in meat and your body can more easily get at the iron in meat than in veg so your RDA (based on what you stuff in your mouth) would have to increase to that the amount your body abosrbs remains the same. I'd imagine that protein is the same, i.e. meat is a more dense form therefore you need to consume less of it to get the same benefit.

it was an example.... i'll try another;

even working for the guiding dogs for the blind in a voluntary capacity, a role dedicated to the welfare of the dogs... will involve putting on clothes in the morning, even if those clothes are made out of 100% hemp grown on land where all animals and insects are allowed to roam free then those clothes would've have to have been transported you... on roads, roads that were built on the natural habitat of something that breaths.

stupid example, but i'm just trying to make a point that everything we do has an impact on something else innit.

I for one will miss meat eating trols like you phil

Ok, I do have a real question then Junkyard.

Do vegans have pets? and if so why is this any different to raising an animal for food (prior to the killing part)?

apart from the road one... as much as i'd never argue with a veganatarian as i believe its their choice, fair play to 'em.... its a question i have sometimes wondered about, i'm struggling to think of a single thing that humans do that hasnt (at some point) impacted on another animal, even working in a vets to save animals involves building the vets building itself!

to put yourself in a position where you do absolutely no harm to other animals would mean having to kill yourself as far as i can see, so as long as people can be honest with themselves and think 'yeah a chicken wont die, but i admit i did use a road that was built over a badgers den this morning' then i'm a happy bunny i like people who are self-aware and can reflect on their own actions.

well yeah, spot on.
as i said, we're all hypocrites to some degree, it's just that some of the more pious members of the vegetarian and vegan communities won't admit that.
the Vegan Society's registered legal definition of the term "vegan" actually includes the phrase "to the best of your ability" (or something like that anyway)- nobody's going to be able to avoid animal products entirely so you simply choose the best option available. i mean, obviously it doesn't mean you go drink a pint of cow's milk or eat a steak if you've got no non-dairy milk or tofu around; nowt necessarily wrong with doing those but you're NOT veggie/vegan if you do!
which leads me onto the other point- those people who call themselves vegetarians but eat fish. WRONG. well, they're not wrong to eat fish (as such; it's their choice) but why feel the need to claim you're a vegetarian? these are the real moralisers amongst us all. our own personal dietary choices do not make us inherently any better or worse than anyone else, so just accept your own and stop making crap up for whatever silly reasons!

twas an example.... i'll try another;

I know, wasn't shooting down the point, just raising something new..

Although I am trying to think of ways to shoot down the point.

But I do not like having the whys and wherefores shoved down my throat, especially BS like this:
I dont know if anyone has told you this but killing things is not nice so I dont do it
Which is utter drivel. I'll do it if I want (And I have done) becasue I believe that humans are naturally omnivores, are they not? (which is why we have canine teeth FWIW) I like meat, so it'll eat it. My choice. .

it's just that some of the more pious members of the vegetarian and vegan communities won't admit that.

Although I am trying to think of ways to shoot down the point.

You're a veggie, you're not allowed to shoot things 😉

when you have the tat you are the pious wing
Will bring some cake to Delamere if you are coming

ha!
can't make delamere, we've got a race at lee quarry this sunday mate.

You're a veggie, you're not allowed to shoot things

Can't you read? I'm not, I just like supporting both extremes of the argument, although JY has put me off vegans just now...

well yeah, spot on.
as i said, we're all hypocrites to some degree, it's just that some of the more pious members of the vegetarian and vegan communities won't admit that.
the Vegan Society's registered legal definition of the term "vegan" actually includes the phrase "to the best of your ability" (or something like that anyway)- nobody's going to be able to avoid animal products entirely so you simply choose the best option available. i mean, obviously it doesn't mean you go drink a pint of cow's milk or eat a steak if you've got no non-dairy milk or tofu around; nowt necessarily wrong with doing those but you're NOT veggie/vegan if you do!
which leads me onto the other point- those people who call themselves vegetarians but eat fish. WRONG. well, they're not wrong to eat fish (as such; it's their choice) but why feel the need to claim you're a vegetarian? these are the real moralisers amongst us all. our own personal dietary choices do not make us inherently any better or worse than anyone else, so just accept your own and stop making crap up for whatever silly reasons

i like you i'd happily go out of my way to prepare a special meal if people like you came for dinner, the preachy ones dont get invited 😉

Oh....erm..... in that case, Carry on!

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I could publish a foto of me with my dead prey to prove it..

although JY has put me off vegans just now...

Ahh I think you will find in that sense I have always been off vegans, the farts. I prefer to avoid sharing a quilt with a women whose farts smell like a brontosaurus turd ..

you need to join in , try covering ther head with the duvet then let rip....mmmmmaybee only me that one 😳

don't like meat.

Edit: Jamie, Yeti, don't...OK, just don't 😆

yeti has had his punchline ready for that line all day emsz

I've nothing too add to this debate really but I've met a lot of women recently who say they're vegetarian because they simply don't like meat. I put this down to how it's been cooked. Nobody can dislike a well hung bit of prime beef... cooked rare with a delicate sauce.

emsz - have you ever actually tried black pudding?

Started with Lamb (and yes, mostly because they are sooooo cute) Cooked meat can be nice, I know this, but more often than not it just isn't...It's stringy, tasteless, and a bit pointless. Plus restaurants, right, they have to make money, the meat they use is going to be cheap, you've no idea where it's from.

Black pudding is pig blood isn't it? No, don't fancy it.

The best thing about being nearly veggie...

The V-Pud!

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Yh it's a blood filled sausage. It's a lot tastier than you might imagine and extremely good for you... the high iron content is very good for menstrauting women.

you are a font of knowledge here TSY.
Yes the veggie black pudding is quite tasty but a very odd concept. Someone bought me mine.

What's in a veggie pudding? Druidh was telling me how good veggie haggis is... which I can imagine as the best bit is the flavouring.

veggie haggis is nice never had the real thing though.
No idea re the ingredients.

Sorry, but veggie haggis is quite simply revolting. It's that bad that a veggie mate of mine gave me one as he hated it and thought "Ah, the dwarf will eat anything.."

No he won't. Some veggie food is lovely but i'll disembowell the next clown who pulls that trick on me! 👿

Do you like normal haggis though? I was told they taste pretty much the same.

yes the veg does not have the same offal flavours
IGMC

Thank god for you Junky... that awful joke has made me feel a lot better for not inserting a load of pork sausage gags for emsz.

I love proper haggis (groans at JY) just like i love black pudding etc, IMHO trying to recreate a dish that has offal and blood as its basic and intrinsic ingredients and replacing them with non-meat products just makes something neither fish nor fowl so to speak.

I'll attempt to eat most things and i love trying new foods but i'll never eat anything vegetarian attempting to ape a meat dish again.

I'm selfish so I eat meat. I find it odd that you could argue it isn't morally wrong to kill something tbh. If it was supermarket meat I'd probably not bother, that shite is worse than sprouts!

muddydwarf - you do have a point! I will eat pretty much anything and respect other peoples rights to do so, but why try to make artificial meat products? if you are a veggie why would you want to eat something that looks like and/or tastes like meat?

And don't get me started an alcohol free beer!

Gosh, sorry I'm late to the party.

I'm vegetarian. I've been vegetarian for about 20 years, which is pretty much half of my total years on this world.

I am, perhaps, atypical. Certainly if you believe a lot of the stuff that regularly gets trotted out about veggies, I don't exist.

I'm vegetarian because the concept of eating meat repulses me. It's dead flesh. That's minging. I'd be squeamish about dissecting a corpse or getting covered in blood pulling lumps out of (say) a dead cow, so it'd be hypocritical of me to eat meat so long as someone else did all the 'dirty' work for me. Fortunately for me, in the modern western world there's plenty of alternatives which means that I don't have to, so why should I?

The bottom line is, conceptually, I don't see flesh as a foodstuff, any more than I see gravel as food. And yeah sure, you could argue that we're "designed" to eat it and you'd be right, but that misses my point. A better analogy for me might be, "why don't you eat turds?" Say they were delicious and nutritious, would you eat 'em?

I reject the original premise as flawed that eating meat is default and not eating it has to be justified in some way. Choosing to eat meat or choosing not to eat meat is a choice [i]either way.[/i] You can come up with all the reasoning you like but at the end of the day it's cultural. Some cultures eat horse; some cultures don't eat pig; some eat dog; what's the difference here exactly? The original question, therefore, boils down to "why don't you do what I do?" - arrogant, hmm?

This, then, renders a lot of Bingo arguments invalid, for me at least. I'll field some specific questions in the next post.

I think cougar has it bang on.

I'm a meat eater and i accept it's a choice, just like vegetarianism is a choice, TBH i've heard so much BS from both camps on this subject over the years and it's all just that - BS. From the 'save the planet' veggies to the 'we're evolved to eat meat' carnivores and they're all really, really boring.

Eat what you like, it's your body and nowt to do with anyone else.

Just don't tell anyone else what they should be eating unless you want a fork in your forehead....

One of my mates is from Glasgow and as such, despises all vegetables.

His wife is a vegetarian

He lives on pizza's

I'm not sure that adds anything to the discussion

just thought I'd share

[b]toys19[/b] was doing well.

As a confirmed killer and meat eater I admire vegans and deride supermarket only meat eaters. There is nothing that irritates me more than people telling me how cruel it is to shoot a deer or a bunny but will still happily eat a lamb chop.

Nobody needs to eat meat, therefore eating meat is only for pleasure, therefore you are complicit in killing for pleasure if you eat meat.

If you are happy to accept this, or even like it (as I do) then eat meat. If you cannot accept this then have the courage of your convictions and become a vegan.

+many. Eat what you want, accept it for what it is, and be happy. If you're an omnivore who only eats meat when someone else chops it into unrecognisable cubes for you, or a vegetarian who goes to pieces at the prospect of a bacon butty, you need to take a good hard look at yourself. However, it all goes wrong with the last bit:

So called Vegetarians are the worst of the lot, moralising hypocrites. Either no meat or meat there is no middle ground.

... which is patent nonsense. Sorry.

[b]bigyinn[/b] asks:

Why do veggies / vegans always feel the need to preach about it

I hear this a lot, it's the "Christian" attack. As a vegetarian and an atheist I sit on both sides; the omnivores whine about 'preachy' vegetarians and the atheists whine about 'preachy' Christians, whereas in my experience the complainers are far more common. I've met very few preachy Christians / vegetarians, but I'm met a metric shitload of vocal atheists and omnivores complaining about them.

[b]McHamish [/b]said:

BBQs must be boring at a vegan's house.

TBH, this just shows ignorance. Why not find out? "BBQs must be boring at a carnivore's house. It's just meat."

[b]HoratioHufnagel[/b] posited:

Not eating a vegetarian food just because its been on the same plate as some meat? WTF?

I can't speak for other veggies but personally this goes back to my 'turd' analogy. If you'd been served a burger that someone had shat on and then gone "oh, never mind" and wiped it off, would you eat it?

[b]Clong[/b] makes a good point:

I find it weird how some vegitarians claim to be vegetarians, but eat fish/chicken/bacon on occasions.

So do I. The answer is, these people aren't vegetarians. They're pescetarians or some other variant, or Americans. You might as well argue that you're a non-smoker (apart from cigarettes).

Finally, [b]binners[/b] entertainingly argued,

You're a veggie, you're not allowed to shoot things

To which the answer is, of course you are, you just can't eat it afterwards.

From the 'save the planet' veggies to the 'we're evolved to eat meat' carnivores and they're all really, really boring.

The PETA 'meat is murder' screwheads really have set vegetarianism back years. Like most demographics, it's the vocal minority giving the rest a bad name.

One point I forgot to add. I really, truly don't care what you eat. You can be a carnivore or a vegan or a creamcakevore or whatever, just be happy with it. Accept where your food comes from and be comfortable with it, and let me do the same.

If you come drooling over my bag of chips but "can't have one because you're on a diet," you're Doing It Wrong. You're just going to be miserable, hungry, and irritating. If you're vegetarian and want KFC,
have one, you'll feel better.

I have eaten better, healthier and with more variety since I got rid of my meat problem. Even today, someone at work commented how delicious my lunch looked, I said "yeah, I do ok for a veggie" and they were shocked.

It's a bit more than just a simple choice though, isn't it ?
To go back to my earlier analogy, if you moved to a country where rape in marriage was commonplace, would you join in with the local customs or become a preachy women's rights activist and try to persuade them it's not a very nice thing to do ?

One of my mates is from Glasgow and as such, despises all vegetables.

His wife is a vegetarian

He lives on pizza's

What you've got there is two incompatible diets. Which is fine.

However, the conclusion is cock all to do with being veggie or carnivorous, and everything to do with being a crap cook.

Non-vegetable veggie food:

Pasta, rice, noodles, lentils, chickpeas, nuts, beans. Meat substitutes: Quorn chunks / TVP mince, egro spag bol, chilli, curry; veggie burgers, sausages, hotdogs. Quorn 'ham' sandwiches, butter pies, cornish pasties, 'meat' and potato pies...

That's off the top of my head. They're not trying.

Jed, you might have to accept that your analogy just isn't working here.

yeah, I do ok for a veggie

He's probably on an Internet forum this evening whinging about preachy vegetarians 🙄

I will eat pretty much anything and respect other peoples rights to do so, but why try to make artificial meat products? if you are a veggie why would you want to eat something that looks like and/or tastes like meat?

And don't get me started an alcohol free beer!

i am quite happy to eat fake meat products (occasionally, and selectively- many of the commercially available ones are very high in fat), because i don't have a problem with the taste of some meats (i never really liked lamb or pork when i did used to eat meat, and have only eaten steak maybe 4 or 5 times ever), just the fact they are part of an animal.
it's strange really, i definitely started out as an ethical vegan (very strongly AR based) and to a great extent i suppose i still am, however PETA are, as cougar said, a huge load of idiots. well, ingrid newkirk and those in charge of their policy making are anyway.

oh, and i drink alcohol-free beer. i like it, but i don't like what alcohol consumption does to me. don't worry about it though, nobody's gonna try to make you do the same!

To go back to my earlier analogy

The place your analogy falls down is that rape and eating meat are simply not comparable on most people's moral compass. I can see the underlying point you're trying to make, but it gets distorted by that fact.

I disagree with your first barbed comment as well. Is it hard for you to accept that people might have thought for themselves and still decided to eat meat?

Thanks for the analysis Cougar, but you misunderstood my comment about vegetarians. I mean this to apply [b]only[/b] to vegetarians who give me grief about killing animals and eating them. I am fine with whatever anyone wants to eat, but I don't think vegetarians (ie those who don't eat meat but happily use animal products to a lesser or greater degree) have any right to moralise about the killing of animals for meat. Which essentially you have already agreed with. So please accept my apologies for confusing you, but please do read my post and subsequent posts carefully before casting your opinion.

EDIT - I have just seen that you are a vegetarian, Well done for your non moralising attitude, I appreciate your latitude to allow me to make my own choices..

It's a bit more than just a simple choice though, isn't it ?
To go back to my earlier analogy, if you moved to a country where rape in marriage was commonplace, would you join in with the local customs or become a preachy women's rights activist and try to persuade them it's not a very nice thing to do ?

Well, no, it's not. It's still a choice of course.

In your analogy, I'd do exactly what I've done with my diet choice which is to find what I'm comfortable with and to hell with what anyone else thinks. I would neither 'join in' nor 'become an activist,' I would do what I felt was right for me. Why is there this need to conform? Baa. Baa.

My wife is vegetarian for medical reasons.

Just thought I'd share.

share your wife .....is she a looker 😉