[Closed] vegetarian - why?

Not anymore

I eat nothing that casts a shadow. Luckily there is no direct sunlight in any self-respecting kebab house. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm 😀

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My wife and kids are vegetarian, which makes me one too most of the time.

My wife started when she was 13 because she didn't want to eat any animals (and it annoyed her mum).

TBH Since I've cut down on meat I've felt a lot healthier.

I never used to eat much meat, but now I'm almost Veggie.. c'ept Fish.

I don't like meat. It makes me pooey.

Harry enjoying his occasional meat-based treat yesterday:

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I am a vegan* I dont know if anyone has told you this but killing things is not nice so I dont do it - please lets not say plants are alive and have to play BS bingo so early in a thread. I also think factory/industrial farming is inherently cruel.
IME many meat eaters would not actually kill a live animal to eat it which is the only part of meat eating I find hypocritical tbh.

*PS when people ask me in the real world I always lean in really close and say have I never told you about when I found Jesus - you get some interesting looks and responses to that.

Don't like meat, simple as.

IME many meat eaters would not actually kill a live animal to eat it which is the only part of meat eating I find hypocritical tbh.

I could do if required, but the ones I kill are usually just for fun/hobby on a weekend with mates. I dont possess the skills/knowledge to skin em and cut em up and cook em properly. Thats what supermarket food is for!

Most meat eaters would kill if they had to...but that's been taken out of the food eating part of life nowadays and tbh, it's a road that's not going to be travelled back down until the apocalypse comes.

The only thing is, they'd eat a lot less meat - and appreciate it more when they did.

but i dislike factory farming & the amount of energy & fossil fuels used to feed and maintain livestock.

I am a part time vegitarian though which seems annoy EVERYONE

My wife and kids are vegetarian, which makes me one too most of the time.

TBH Since I've cut down on meat I've felt a lot healthier.

same here, i eat meat once or twice a month. I'm fairly fortunate to have a lot of local producers of meat, game and fish so when I do rend flesh I can be sure of its provenance.

I'm an occasional meat eater with a massive guilt complex about it. 🙂

I have tried only eating Raw stuff (fish included) that lasted about 4 months but it got terribly boorish when people would ask why I did it (purely health thing I was on at the time)
I've a family friend whose a farmer and on occasion when he scrubs out a pig I'll have some chops and he also has cattle which I'll very occasionally have a few steaks, he's a subsistance organic farmer BTW.
MrsBikeBouy's a veggie (although she too eats fish) and I guess it's because we both have a similar attitude to farming/animal welfare yadda yadda.
But I'm not going t preach to anyone, eat what you enjoys my motto.

many meat eaters would not actually kill a live animal

I would. I'd happily tear some poor, innocent furry ickle creature limb-from-limb with my bare hands, rip its guts out with a hunting knife, and roast it over an open spit if I had too. In fact, if someone could offer that as a weekend mini-break......? 😀

Have previously dabbled in vegetarianism and have been out with vegans - doesn't really bother me to eat like that so of the food is great and I've never really like the idea of the way animals are killed for food on an industrial scale however at the end of the day homo sapiens are omnivorous, its evidenced in both our teeth, as we have both canines and molars and the enamel is too thin for a purely herbaceous diet, and in our digestive track by the lack of enzymes required for a herbivore diet.

MrsBikeBouy's a veggie (although she too eats fish)

What are her reasons for eating fish but not other animals, is it purely a health thing?

I'm a veggie and have been for many years. It's an ethical animal rights thing for me. I don't think that I'm someone particularly prone to anthropromorphism but as a pet owner I recognise the ability of animals to experience emotions (pleasure, fear etc.) to some degree and of course pain and can't abide the horrific mass slaughter process when eating meat is no longer necessary. Many food species, pigs in particular, seem rather more 'aware' than cats and dogs so I also get wound up with meat eaters who are up in arms at the Chinese eating cats, French eating horses etc.

There are some interesting humanitatian reasons too such as world food shortages (apparently it takes something like 8lbs of grain/vegetable matter to produce a pound of beef).

Like many things though it's up to the individual to chose their own way.

Not veggie but I am considering cutting down my meat consumption a lot. For starters it's too expensive and cheap meat doesn't taste of much. And I always feel healthier/fresher after having a veggie meal, probably all mental but if it feels better then it is 🙂

IME many meat eaters would not actually kill a live animal to eat it which is the only part of meat eating I find hypocritical tbh.

As a confirmed killer and meat eater I admire vegans and deride supermarket only meat eaters. There is nothing that irritates me more than people telling me how cruel it is to shoot a deer or a bunny but will still happily eat a lamb chop.

Nobody needs to eat meat, therefore eating meat is only for pleasure, therefore you are complicit in killing for pleasure if you eat meat.

If you are happy to accept this, or even like it (as I do) then eat meat. If you cannot accept this then have the courage of your convictions and become a vegan.

So called Vegetarians are the worst of the lot, moralising hypocrites. Either no meat or meat there is no middle ground. (unless you just don't like the taste, or want to cut down for health reasons, or think that meat is bad for the environment etc but are happy for animals to die for your leather goods or whatever than that's fine too.)

i don't get the idea of someone not eating a pig or cow that has been reared for the purpose of eating and killed quickly, but who will happily eat a fish that has come from the sea (a source which can't be farmed, only harvested) and has suffocated to death.

i've killed fish and chickens before for my consumption. fish are easy. chickens are a bit more difficult but a lot more entertaining (when using an axe). gutting them is a shitty job though.

my GF is vegetarian. as such i don't often eat meat at home. i'd eat a lot more if i found a butcher that sells proper bacon and sausages instead of shitty american streaky bacon full of fat and thin enough to read a newspaper through or wurst sausages containing nothing but a paste like substance.

if i've been out on a big ride i'll make a point of eating a bit of meat for its protien value.

but in general i don't eat much meat. i don't know if i'm any healthier for it, but i don't see the point in forking out (<< see what i did there?) for something i don't [i]need[/i] on a daily basis. it does now mean that when i do fancy a bit of flesh i won't buy it from the supermarket, but from a small butcher where the meat is of a better quality.

oh, but i will eat a burger from McD's occasionally. their beef comes from local farms.... so we're told.

On the 'not killing animals' thing, what astounds me is the wanton slaughter of wildlife to produce vegetables and cereal crops. Pigeons, Gulls, crows, rabbits, rats mice, are slaughtered - by often very inhumane means - in their thousands (if not millions) on a daily basis. Otherwise their population would expand at an alarming rate and destroy all those lovely vegetables and grains before we could eat them. I know this population expansion is largely down to factory farming vegetables and grain for human food. But still, lots of wild animal die, trapped, poisoned, shot, etc. for our grain - is than not as cruel as eating meat? discuss.

moralising hypocrites

I know plenty who do no moralising about it whatsoever. The only moralising I've seen so far is from you.

world food shortages

since the year 2000 more people have had over nutrition than malnutrition

http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm

Damn right Supertramp. I saw a drama/documentary on it recently. It was horrific!!

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No

Why do veggies / vegans always feel the need to preach about it, like they're saving the world? Its the same with religious types. I understand your reasons, but I happen to like meat. I don't tend to dwell on the process's that got it from animal form to plate form, in much the same way as I don't think about where my petrol comes from.
I cant afford to buy the organic cuts of beef where the animal is humanely killed after being indulged in fine wines and an evening with Penelope Keith, before being given an overdose of morphine and having its throat slit by a Merkur blade. So I'll make do with whatever is cheapest in Tesco's.
Once I win the lottery be assured that I'll get the beef thats been treated in such a lovely way, it actually thanks you for eating it, as its had a quite frankly lovely life.

I know plenty who do no moralising about it whatsoever. The only moralising I've seen so far is from you.

Yes, but I'm not a hypocrite, and I have been moralised by many a veggy. Is your retort not moralising? Pot kettle?

As I said I admire vegans, I respect them. I think it takes real courage to stand up for what you believe in,and I think they have made a real difference. Its woolly pick and mix morals that pee me off. Vegetarianism for so called animal cruelty reasons is just trying to make yourself feel better but ignoring the actual real problem.

On the 'not killing animals' thing, what astounds me is the wanton slaughter of wildlife to produce vegetables and cereal crops. Pigeons, Gulls, crows, rabbits, rats mice, are slaughtered - by often very inhumane means - in their thousands (if not millions) on a daily basis. Otherwise their population would expand at an alarming rate and destroy all those lovely vegetables and grains before we could eat them. I know this population expansion is largely down to factory farming vegetables and grain for human food. But still, lots of wild animal die, trapped, poisoned, shot, etc. for our grain - is than not as cruel as eating meat? discuss.

Never considered this, but its an interesting one.

bigyin - read my last post, it is possible that as many animals die in the production of vegetable based foods as in meat based foods. And they die in some horrible and fairly unregulated ways! But this is something most 'preachers' seem entirely ignorant of.

toys19 + 1

I've recently started dating a lass who is Vegan and for her it seems to be that whe doesn't want a part in what she perceives to be a cruel practice. I don't agree that it is cruel, or at least that it is less cruel than what happens in nature, but we are all free to make our own minds up about things like that.

As a result of this though, I did start to do some digging around (mostly to better understand what she can and can't eat/use) and to be honest the fallacious arguments that are posted on the Vegan sites that I have seen are themselves enough to convince me that that community isn't one that I care to be part of.

I've found after being vegetarian, that now Im a meat eater I still dont eat much meat. I only eat fish or chicken when I do. Red meat isnt really healthy.

I like vegans/veganism, it seems like an educated way to eat. You have to actually put some thought into what your eating. Rather than some greedy meat eater who just consumes any sort of shite they want to.

I have been moralised by many a veggy

You poor thing...

Is your retort not moralising?

No. Just pointing out to you that you're making a massive over-generalisation, not that it was somehow immoral. Hope that helped.

bigyinn - I find it's the exact opposite, when I state I'm veggie I normally get abuse from the non-veggies.

a massive over-generalisation

No I wasn't, I specifically singled out vegetarians who don't eat meat for "killing is cruel" reasons, that is not a generalisation as I excluded those who don't eat meat for other reasons. It seems (although I knew this already DD) that you cannot read, and have no grasp of basic logic.

I was a vegetarian for a good few years, labouring under the misapprehension that it was healthier.

the fallacious arguments that are posted on the Vegan sites that I have seen are themselves enough to convince me that that community isn't one that I care to be part of.

I think that as long as we accept that on either side, there are those who would seek to deride the choices and opinions of others (mostly to make themselves feel better about their choices), and that they should be ignored while people make their own choices based on facts (and feelings of course). Ignorance is no excuse though.

bigyinn - I find it's the exact opposite, when I state I'm veggie I normally get abuse from the [s]non-veggies[/s] idiots.

Sorted that for you.

I think vegans are ok to give out a bit of stick to meat eaters, afterall they have the moral high ground.

It seems (although I knew this already DD) that you cannot read, and have no grasp of basic logic.

Ah right, it's funny you know, you said something a bit personal just like this the other day. You can take it back if you want, though I doubt you will. Be nasty if you must - I will not be joining in your game.

[i]"... if so why?"[/i]

Because I have the ability to think for myself.
If I lived somewhere where slavery or rape in marriage were both legal and socially acceptable, I wouldn't do that either.

Is it time for [i]that[/i] picture yet ?

Ahh hurt your feelings? I think you are taking this a bit too seriously, I thought our friendship was based on this to and fro..I seem to remember the last time we had this exact same discussion (well it was about hunting) your every other post was a gibe at me, I don't mind at all. I come here for the banter, I was glad when you turned up.

DT said I think vegans are ok to give out a bit of stick to meat eaters, afterall they have the moral high ground.

Indeed I am happy to take it on the chin from vegans. They are most probably right. I just need to wean myself off lamb chops, liver, bacon and steak..

Because I have the ability to think for myself.
If I lived somewhere where slavery or rape in marriage were both legal and socially acceptable, I wouldn't do that either.

And I've heard it rumoured that some veggies can be a tad sanctimonious and prone to melodramatic outburts. Not that I believe that myself. The comparison between rape and sausages seems perfectly reasonable

bigyinn - I find it's the exact opposite,

+1

i'm supposed to have some good reasoned logic to why i abstain from eating certain things, and be ready to present and prefer for rebuttal at all occasions.

i doubt we'll see many more vegans replying on this thread, they need to reserve their strength to breath... takes a lot of muscle and energy to type you know 😉

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Ahh hurt your feelings?

I think you are taking this a bit too seriously, I thought our friendship was based on this to and fro..I seem to remember the last time we had this exact same discussion (well it was about hunting) your every other post was a gibe at me.

I have no idea where you're based but this could be a new defence, like the Edinburgh one or the Tower Hamlets one. Good work.

I don't mind at all. I come here for the banter, I was glad when you turned up.

I didn't turn up to trade personal insults - but don't let that stop you.

Hmm reminds me of this
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Which I've posted many times before, and whilst funny, I don't wish to be derogatory to vegans.

Keep making convincing arguments like that Graham and I'm gonig to have no choice but to agree with you.

Each to their own I say, if you don't eat meat fair enough. I love it though, a rare steak with some peppercorn sauce is a joy to eat.

Out of interest, would those who object to eating animals on the basis of the 'not killing animals' theme be alright eating the afterbirth of animal?

I have no idea where you're based but this could be a new defence, like the Edinburgh one or the Tower Hamlets one. Good work.

lost me..

Actually, whilst we are on about it if any of the vegans on here could let me know where I can get sutiable fat to use in baking that would be great. I've used some of the PURE stuff that comes in tubs and is ostensibly spredable but that didn't work too well, at least I didn't think so. I'd like to know if there is any solid stuff that comes in packs like butter.

If I lived somewhere where slavery or rape in marriage were both legal and socially acceptable, I wouldn't do that either.

This is the sort of fallacious argument I was referring to earlier.

thomthumb - I'm supposed to have some good reasoned logic to why I abstain from eating certain things, and be ready to present and prefer for rebuttal at all occasions.

No, In fact I think it's better if you don't! The most justified reason for following a particular dietary path is probably "because I want to"

It's when people try to explain that the trouble unusually starts 😉

mmm...meat.

BBQs must be boring at a vegan's house.

lost me..

Clearly you've been spending healthily little time on the forum of late. 🙂

[s]BBQs[/s] eating must be boring at a vegan's house.

FTFY 😀

Have you seen the price of meat these days?....I'd love to be able to afford to not be a vegeblearianist.

I've used some of the PURE stuff that comes in tubs

Works fine for us.

thomthumb - I'm supposed to have some good reasoned logic to why I abstain from eating certain things, and be ready to present and prefer for rebuttal at all occasions.
supertramp
No, In fact I think it's better if you don't! The most justified reason for following a particular dietary path is probably "because I want to"

It's when people try to explain that the trouble unusually starts

TBH supertramp is right, if you just want to then that's fine.
I apologise if my little rant earlier made you think this, I have been berated quite severely in the past for my meat eating and killing ways, by people I then discovered were vegetarian, oh the ironing.

If you are vegetarian and want to leave me alone then that is fine. My rant was aimed at, and possibly I should have been even more specific, vegetarians who wish to berate/moralise meat eaters, and meat eaters who wish to berate/moralise meat killers. I'm a live and let live kind of bloke.

eating must be boring at a vegan's house

it really isn't you know.

sadly not enough little time. he does like the[s] ad hominem[/s] banter though. He does it to me when you are not there. It is no fun being DD's sloppy seconds in the internt baiting game. I am just not tough enough for his glib attacks [ ducks for cover INCOMING}
Now DD let me cakll you names and goad you whilst pretning it is banter and we are somnehoe friends in this sport
these threads serve no position bit to cause bitter pointless feuding
Only on the internet do I get into arguments about this I almost never even debate it tbh in the real world

eating must be boring at a vegan's house.

Eating must be boring if you have no imagination in the culinary department.

Why do veggies / vegans always feel the need to preach about it, like they're saving the world?

I've never witnessed this. I have witnessed meat-eaters giving veggies a hard time though. It's always felt a bit like guilt-shifting to me.

And I speak as a meat eater.

I only eat street meat.

I do. I love cooking. Hence I fear I'd find a full-time vegan diet incredibly restrictive. I often look at veggie options to cook but generally find them uninspiring.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong if you fancy posting some recipes though

try harder JY, its always you and DD starting on me.I might make the odd annoying statement but it is always made personal by you and DD, I just respond. I'll dredge up all the old threads and prove it if you want. If what you just said isn't ad hominem (albeit veiled) then I'm a martian. You love a good fight as much as me so don't pretend to be all pious, otherwise you wouldn't have written what you just did, if you cant stand the heat. It's time to grow a pair.

It's time to grow a pair.

Sexist.

Sexist.

Veganism strikes me as setting a fairly arbitrary bar, so I don't really sympathise with it much. I don't really know too much about it though I must admit.

At a BBQ a while ago somebody produced some vegetarian beer, and while I have no problems with vegetarianism I did find myself thinking "Vegetarian beer? FFS...".

I do. I love cooking. Hence I fear I'd find a full-time vegan diet incredibly restrictive. I often look at veggie options to cook but generally find them uninspiring.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong if you fancy posting some recipes though

I recently spent a week in the company of my vegan/veggie mates and their cooking (lots of beans, idave would approve) was awesome. Need to get some recipes.

toys19 - that's the first time anyone has ever quoted or agreed with me on here! You have cured my being ignored complex 😆

why dont vegans refuse to use roads? loads of animals are killed to make roads....

are vegans against abortion?

would a vegan eat a carrot if i stuck googly eyes on it and drew on a sad face with a pen?

do vegans perform oral sex?

all valuable questions....

I fear I'd find a full-time vegan diet incredibly restrictive

][b]It's time to grow a pair.[/b]
Sexist.

Depends what you were being asked to grow a pair of really

What on earth do they put in beer that would make it unsuitable for vegetarians? I have the same thoughts when I see vegetarian cheese?

I think vegans are ok to give out a bit of stick to meat eaters, afterall they have the moral high ground

Only in their own minds.

Nothing morally wrong with eating meat.

What [i]is[/i] morally wrong is the way animals are treated in the 'production' process.

Anyway, why else do we have lovely sharp canine's other than for meat-eating 8)

I have the same thoughts when I see vegetarian cheese?

That would be the rennet

supertramp
toys19 - that's the first time anyone has ever quoted or agreed with me on here! You have cured my being ignored complex

Given my popularity here you might come to regret it..

joao3v16 - Member
I think vegans are ok to give out a bit of stick to meat eaters, afterall they have the moral high ground
Only in their own minds.

Nothing morally wrong with eating meat.

What is morally wrong is the way animals are treated in the 'production' process.

Anyway, why else do we have lovely sharp canine's other than for meat-eating

I don't think there is anything morally wrong with eating meat, but at least vegans have a logical argument -generally they object to the killing of animals to suit human needs, when there are plenty of viable alternatives, because they think killing animals is cruel. I, and you it seems, either do not think it is cruel or do not care about the animals feelings, so we cannot be persuaded otherwise. I dunno which is right, but at the moment my actions are not legally wrong and I have yet to have my conscience pricked about the morals so I can only see it continuing. Although the vegans may be weakened by the issues raised here regarding the killing of animals to protect crops, build roads etc..

to the 'i don't like meat, and therefore i'm a veggie' crowd -

have you eaten every type of meat, cooked in every way?

i mean, i don't like sprouts or cauliflour (taste or texture), but i'd not write off EVERY type of veg just because of that...

i just lable you 'fussy eaters' 😈

Yes, with only 20000 edible plants in the world, it can get a bit repetitive.

I presume you regularly utlise all 20,000. Do you grow them all yourself? Or do you employ the services of animal-slaughtering supermarkets?

I wonder how many species of edible animal there are? Cows, pigs, chickens......erm..... just give us a minute.......... erm.........

are vegans against abortion?

I imagine that they'd refuse to eat the embryo.