Any advice from someone more mechanically minded than me welcomed. Wife's car (2015 320i) went in for major service on Friday under service plan. Picked car up and all good initially, didn't move Saturday and then Sunday coming back from Christening (less than 20 miles since service) there is smoke coming our from under the bonnet and nasty burning smell in cabin. 30s later its gone and we drive home.
Booked back in at dealer this morning for investigation. £750 for new gasket/labour/VAT. Dealer willing to pay £600 and me £150. Thing is I don't think I should pay a thing! They said "BMW approved this as goodwill" and when I asked them to go back to BMW and say I'm not happy they said they couldn't... After speaking to BMW UK apparently it was the dealer who made the decision on the goodwill..
I'm looking at two "Vehicle health check" reports, days apart and suddenly "Engine Oil" has went from greeen to red on the RAG status. Surely they've done something during the service to cause the car to be leaking so much oil it is now smoking?!
Do they even take the rocker cover off during the service? Could they have damaged it when replacing the spark plugs?
Car has 30k on it and is out of warranty. I just cannot put this down to coincidence. We've done 10,000 trouble free miles in this car since buying it last year and then the 1st journey after a service it's smoking and needs a major part replacing. Do I just suck it up and be glad they're paying some of it?
Cheers
Nick
I doubt they would touch the valve cover at all on a service.
It's difficult to see how they could possibly damage a valve cover gasket during a service, unless they've been doing something they shouldn't (accidentally dropped something into the engine and went in to retrieve it??)
You wouldn't expect a major leak to happen overnight on a 4 year old car either.
It also seem quite a steep price on something that costs barely anything and is relatively easy to replace. Though I'm not familiar with the 320.
Maybe one of the lads took it out for a good rag and over-stressed it.
That's what they've just said on the phone.. Been back in touch with dealer playing holy hell and they're not budging on the £150, they say £150 is what I'd pay on an extended warranty (if I had one) and if it's less than £150 I'll lose the 2 year warranty. FFS
Was replying to Sharkbait with that one ^^^
A quick google suggests that the major service is:
1. Oil
2. Oil filter
3. Visual inspection checks
4. Micro filter
5. Air filter
I'd suggest you put it down to coincidence, and hurriedly take their offer of goodwill!
Good point butcher - local indie said £100 +VAT labour and then whatever the part is, so yes very steep.
Scotroutes - with an array of 135/235/M3/4/5 in the garage I can't see the appeal of 320 saloon but yes maybe someone took it out and took the piss. Impossible to prove tho
They deffo put new spark plugs in - could they damage the gasket where they go in?
I’d suggest you put it down to coincidence, and hurriedly take their offer of goodwill!
This!
You're not going to 'blow a rocker gasket' with an Italian tune up.
With regard to the price: Don't forget this is main dealer prices. You may well find that the part is around £100, and labour may well be over £100/hr depending on where in the country you are.
Even then though, that does seem a lot of time to replace a rocker gasket, but with the way modern cars are packaged, it wouldn't come as a surprise. My wife's E46 was enough of a PITA, and that was nearly 20 years old
Major service and they are not checking valve clearances? I find that surprising especially with BMW
My BMW motorcycle the service schedule was a huge list of things - including changing all cables and ALL fluids on a major service
I would be checking with BMW what a major service consists of. When do they check the valve clearances?
If it's smoking that much I'd imagine it's leaking on the outer edge of the gasket. Not familiar with the 320i engine but I'm assuming the sparks are in a a 'well' in the centre - if so then they're nowhere near the bit of the gasket I'm guessing is probably leaking. I'd really struggle to blame them for this, unless they removed the old sparks with a grinder.
could they damage the gasket where they go in
Basically.... No.
Oil pressure can increase after a service due to new filter, it may have just shown up an already weak gasket.
I had an XC90 that started leaking oil immediately after being serviced...just consistence.
Checking valve clearances on a 2015 car? Probably never 😉
You’re not going to ‘blow a rocker gasket’ with an Italian tune up.
Man, you're no fun!
overfilled?
Oil pressure can increase after a service due to new filter, it may have just shown up an already weak gasket.
surely oil is just splashing around inside the rocker cover - it's not under pressure as such?
Thank you for the replies all. It's booked in Thursday morning for the work @ £150. I had a final moan at them and the service manager said she would do her best on the contribution but I'm not holding my breath.. The packaging looks a bit intricate to be fair but they manage to fit 6cyl engines in the same space so it's not terrible!
£150 sounds about the right price to me. I did a 6 cylinder in a couple of hours the other week, having never done it before. I reckon it's an hour's work for a dealer and the £600 is basically to make it look like they're offering you something.
It is a dealer so, so I could believe they charge up to £300. £750 for those who come in looking clueless.
I read it wrong, thought they were paying 150 leaving you with £600.
I think I'd be buying their arm off for £150.
Unfortunately just one of those coincidence things most likely, no way to prove it otherwise.
Aye, spot on butcher, it'll be well inflated to make it look like they're doing me a massive favour. Once this service pack expires it'll be going to the local BMW indie for sure!
Hydraulic tappets i think so no valve clearances to check. Is it possible that they have spilt a lot of oil on the exhaust when they changed it? As its all over the valve cover it looks like the gasket has failed.
Based on various stories I've heard BMW will not entertain any goodwill gestures unless the car has a full main dealer service history.
They're not called main stealers for nothing.
Perhaps a bunch of ancillaries like fuel lines need to be removed to take rocker cover off, not familiar with the model, and avoid the famous German engineering as much as poss.
I bet the mechanic poured oil down the side of the engine onto the exhaust manifold.
"Oil pressure can increase after a service due to new filter, it may have just shown up an already weak gasket."
The rocker cover gasket never feels oil pressure, it's basically just a water/oiltight casing seal.
tjagain
Member
My BMW motorcycle the service schedule was a huge list of things – including changing all cables and ALL fluids on a major service
Motorbikes are very different (and BMWs a bit more so than most). I was supposed to check valve clearances on my bike every 7500 miles. Though, it basically never needed done on my model of bike, I even changed the intake cams and moved the old intakes to become exhaust cams, and even then the tolerances were so spot on with all the parts that it didn't need a single tweak.
My car apparently is every 100000, though things get fuzzy with subaru because they know you'll probably have changed the entire engine by then. With a lot of modern cars they're hydraulic so never need adjustment, but the adjusters themselves can need a little loving.
I dont think even a dealer could damage the valve cover gasket during a service, so I suspect its a coincidence. But there's no way it should cost £600to repair it, I suspect the real cost is £150 and they just inflating the cost to 600 and saying they'll pay for most of it to make you feel better.
Pay the 150 to get it fixed and move on.
Hydraulic tappets i think so no valve clearances to check.
That explains it. Even modern cars I would expect a valve clearance check every now and then
Tj.
You have to remove the camshaft to do the clearances on a modern car.
Basically leave well alone unless you have reason to meddle.
I reshimmed mine due to starting issues. - started like a shiny new pin after but I did have half the engine on the bench to get there ....
Oh and I'll take spilt oil burning off manifold and the dealer trying to rinse a mug
Sounds more like engine oil on the manifold.As you said,smell/smoke only lasted 30 seconds so maybe an unsteady hand from a mechanic.
Trying to rinse a mug? Bit harsh. So would you be getting a second opinion on whether it needs doing at all?
If you have a look around the edges of the cover you’ll notice where the oil is escaping, if it has a leak. Has it smoked and smelt of burning oil within the cabin since?
My vote is spilt oil on the manifold. The cynic within me wonders if this has occurred previously at this dealer?
Nope, nothing since the initial incident.. can’t really see much it’s all just plastic covers under the bonnet. Could try and remove and have a look I suppose
Mark the gasket somewhere before you take it in, penny to a pound of shit it won't get changed the car will spend a few hours idling in the yard to burn it off or get steam cleaned after dopey apprentice tipped half a tub of oil where it shouldn't have gone. I've done it myself a few times
Really bad access for top end on those BMW’s the engine sits a long way back - rear under scuttle- you have to remove the scuttle to get to the top end to do anything , horrible things, the earlier N series engines were total dogs oil leaks cam chains etc.
Easy tiger I'm not calling you a mug I'm implying they may think your a mug. I'd certainly be looking for another opinion based on your description
Oh wait, you haven't actually confirmed for yourself that it's actually leaking oil?
If not, then I'm With the others that its just some oil on the manifold and everything is fine.
I'd just drive it as usual, keeping a very close eye on the oil level for a few weeks, if it's not going down and theres not a pool of oil on the drive, then forget about it.
If it isn't actually leaking oil, then that's a very naughty dealer. Nothing surprises me with their behaviour these days.
I can't change the oil on my car without getting some on the exhaust - the filter is half way up the rear of the engine - needs splash tray under engine taking off, then going in from underneath. As the filter comes off, it drips a bit down straight onto the exhaust. I'd be going round the engine with a torch and see where it's coming from.
Cheers for continued posts all. Gonna drive round to the friendly local indie and get a second opinion. If it’s goosed I might just get him to do it as I think it’ll be £200 based on the chat I had with him earlier. Would rather he had my money anyway
Agree with other posts - oil is unlikely to leak from the top gasket after an oil change. A new filter/oil change won't change the pressure. Plus it's very easy to spill oil onto the engine during an oil change - you smelt it for a short time after the service and now it's gone.
I'd be cancelling the £150 for a completely unnecessary top gasket change but keep an eye on things. It has been fine up to this point so nothing has changed.
But I'd check the oil level just in case...
I think they are trying to pull a fast one. No reason for a rocker cover gasket to fail at that milage. Its not 1982 anymore and things move on. I would be surprised if it ever makes it onto a " change at XXX,000 miles" service interval.
Mechanic rushing to beat the book time to earn extra £££ has whizzed 150ml of oil down the side of the filler and it has run along the gasket and dripped onto the header
The smell / smoke was the new oil burning off.
Rocker cover gasket £20 ish, plus about 1hr to swap it out , its only a 4cyl so should be more accesable than the 6 pot which sits under the windscreen ( almost)
So you'll get Fred in the shed to do it for 200? If it is leaking then why not pay the 150 and get the 2 year warranty.
If it is leaking the potential is depending on the engine that the job will be a bit of a ball ache scuttles off and even injector removed. If the injectors come off then on some models the injector/fuel pipes have to be changed which will all ramp up the cost. There is a chance especially if its an inline engine that oil has been spilt into or on the rocker cover. It can the run to the lowest point and then drop onto the heatsheild and exhaust.
If you can take the soundproof cover off yourself and it's full of clean oil then you can ask the question at this point because.
Is it a dealer in Cumbria?
The 4 pot sits as far back as the 6 pot , its where the rear of the engine meets the gearbox that matters , 6 pot sticks out the front more , crappy to work on when they get old and all the hoses and plastic stuff gets brittle.
Just been to the local BMW indie for a second opinion..
All of those that said spilled oil and hitting heat-shield/manifold were absolutely bob on. Thank you to everyone for your responses. I was sceptical but the information on here prompted me to get the independent diagnosis.
So, engine cover came off and you could see where the oil had spilled down from the filler cap. It had actually pooled in a few areas and was still there and this was directly above the exhaust side of the engine. Absolutely nothing wrong with the rocker cover gasket and the mechanic said for £750 they had to be quoting to replace the cover itself as well, as the gaskets are £50.. He was disgusted.
I got some photos of all of this before he cleaned it up for me. I can't believe the garage didn't even clean up the evidence of the spillage and the cause of the smoke before trying it on with this whole goodwill carry-on. I have no doubt at all now that if I'd dropped it off to get repaired this morning they would have cleaned it, took my money and give it me back. Shocking behaviour and the MD of the dealer group will be getting a very strongly worded and comprehensive letter with evidence about all of this.
Thanks again all and I will be sure to post up how this all pans out.
Awesome 🙂 nice one...
Your'e lucky getting some goodwill, Take it!
Wife's Merc CLK320's autobox went at 68K, cost 2k to fix (it had full service history) No 'goodwill' from Mercedes (but they were very apologetic.)
Shocking behaviour and the MD of the dealer group will be getting a very strongly worded and comprehensive letter with evidence about all of this.
Forget the goodwill then! Don't forget to send a copy to BMW as well.
LOL you never read the rest 🙂
Take the goodwill? There is nothing wrong with the car? Some dopey tech has spilled oil down the side of the engine and it burned off. They want £150 for nowt!
EDIT: Aye for sure BMW will be getting a copy - I have their reference for the work/quote.
@ eruptron, would that be a Cockermouth Dealerby any chance?
Nice one.... that's another reason why I'm not a BMW fan - crappy dealers!
Nice one…. that’s another reason why I’m not a BMW fan – crappy dealers!
It's far from restricted to BMW though. I've had similar in the past from VW - Ridgeway in Wantage to be precise. I only use indies these days.
So, engine cover came off and you could see where the oil had spilled down
from the filler cap. Absolutely nothing wrong with the rocker cover gasket
Hmmm, I think you should take the cautious approach and still pay BMW the £150 just to be on the safe side.
😀
Most expensive engine cleaning quotation ever?
EDIT: Aye for sure BMW will be getting a copy – I have their reference for the work/quote.
Would be thinking of making a complaint to trading standards as well
If it were me, and before going in all guns blazing, I'd get the cleanup done and make sure there isn't *also* an oil leak.
Aye that’s a good point wwaswas, maybe I’ll give it a couple of days, recheck just to be on the safe side. Although I do have complete faith in the indie garage.
I had thought about trading standards yes. Clearly an individual at the dealer has initiated this.. they had the opportunity to admit the mistake, clean up the engine and apologise but they didn’t and went down this route. Crazy.