[Closed] Using made up stories to support religion.

[i]John 8:32
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."[/i]

some woudl argue that the whole book that this comes from is a made up story supporting religion?

Ummm - isn't religion based on a made up story anyway?

Using made up stories to support religion

Slow news day or is it Christmas already?

I like these ones. Cup of tea anyone? I have ginger snaps and some chocolate hob nobs too.

Religion may well be made up stories.
Who knows, as all the significant events conveniently took place before modern recorded history.
Einstein's life has been better documented than most, so why make up a story that can so easily be proved untrue ?

Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, C of E etc. all bollox, I don't even need to put IMO because it's fact 😆

Was this before or after he split the beer atom?

Oh Hooray! More Evangelists! How soon before you lot go knocking on doors, spreading the word!

joolsburger

milk, no sugar thanks.
ooh, and a chocolate hobnob too please! are they milk or dark choc?

I was just thinking recently that we haven't done religion for a while, then I got sent this.

Just a few days ago if I recall.

I got some stem ginger cookies unusual but nice, and great dunkers.

mmmm ginger cookies, nice. But I'm going to go for a Chelsea bun I think.

[img] [/img]

I though Religion was made up Stories???

A nice write up of the issues around the stories on the OP's link. However I think there's one aspect of it that s/he's missed.

There are lots of stories of the everyday folk defeating the so-called wise men. I think that lots of people feel threatened by people more intelligent than themselves, so they often make those people out to be inferior in other ways - by being unpleasant people, or lacking common sense for instance.

When we were in school we were told a story about three wise men who encountered a lion and whilst prevaricating about the best way to solve the problem they all got eaten, displaying no common sense, whereas a normal bloke sorted it out straight away. After the story everyone said 'Yeah, you listen to that story!' to me, despite the fact that I had never displayed any of the characteristics displayed by the so-called wise men. They simply related me to the wise men in their own minds.

probably do have a historical basis, loads of them are just too common throughout many cultures

The fact that there are common stories would imply that they are based on older pan-cultural stories, not necessarily real events.

Who knows, as all the significant events conveniently took place before modern recorded history.

i much prefer them tryin got anser the issue of pain personally as God is either all loving yet does nothing to stop it or unable and therefore not all powerful. From studying it at Uni I realsied even if you accept god as true it is still a largely incoherent inconsistent tale of hope over relaism/logic. For example they can only know god/the kingdom of heaven as if looking through a glass darkly - ie even the faithful cannot explain gods will or reasons aor heaven as they are not obvious to them.
many incredibly intelligent folk believe this I have no idea why they can suspend their faculties of reason to believe in this.

I'd have a guess that the stories in the Quran, Bible, Torah, etc probably do have a historical basis, loads of them are just too common throughout many cultures

The fact that there are common stories would imply that they are based on older pan-cultural stories, not necessarily real events

They simply related me to the wise men in their own minds

Even though you didn't know the difference between 'prevaricate' and 'procrastinate'??

those three books all have the Old testament in them they are the same story /books.

Perhaps. Maybe you never got that treatment because you don't know the difference between procrastinating and pontificating 🙂

but the older stories would have had some basis or inspiration in reality for their creation imo.

Not necessarily. Floods, for instance, are common throughout the world - so it would seem entirely reasonable for the pan-cultural flood stories to be based on the fear of any normal flood or tsunami rather than one single event.

I think that lots of people feel threatened by people more intelligent than themselves, so they often make those people out to be inferior in other ways - by being unpleasant people, or lacking common sense for instance.

This swings both ways.

Loud mouthed atheists spouting extracts from the god delusion at religious people they don't understand is just as bad. A lot of people (especialy on here for some reason) will say stuff like

many incredibly intelligent folk believe this I have no idea why they can suspend their faculties of reason to believe in this.

Do you believe in the Higgs Boson? Youve never seen it, you've only got the vaguest idea what it is (its the particle that makes everything 'everything' isn't it?) yet in your mind you become clever person for believeing in this whereas you classify the person who believes God did it is protrayed as retarded in some way?

Perhaps. Maybe you never got that treatment because you don't know the difference between procrastinating and pontificating

Loud mouthed atheists spouting extracts from the god delusion at religious people they don't understand is just as bad

True, they're not intelligent people tho 🙂

many incredibly intelligent folk believe this I have no idea why

Hehe.. it's precisely BECAUSE they are incredibly intelligent that they can have a far more sophisticated and subtle idea of God than you, and one that makes sense to them.

I find it ironic that the evangelical atheists like to keep [i]resurrecting [/i]this argument.

whilst I am on a roll Muslims refer to them as people of faith [ or people of the book ] and christians refer to all as the Children of Abraham. they all fall out over Jesus - Jews reject him , Christians say the son of God, Muslims accpet him as a holy man of virginal birth* not he son of god as they reject the trinity. God is indivisible. they dont accept resurection either. They believe in the second coming .. I assume the first to them of Gods son and have a place next to Mohammed for them to be buried [iirc for last bit]
* other miracle births exist in islam who have 20 odd named [in quaran]prophets

😆 walked in to that one a bit didnt I molgrips
I shall go and sit in the dunce corner till someone bright can simplify it for me

the film makers didn't do even the most basic research

Oh the irony.

On the website you link to MidlandTrailquestsGraham, they make the following claim :

[b][i]"In a legend of an entirely different character, Albert Einstein was rumoured to have made a guest appearance on the television western "Gunsmoke"."[/i][/b]

If they had done the most basic bit of research, they would have realised that it most certainly isn't a legend of "an entirely different character".

It is all part of the same legend. Anyone with the most basic knowledge of the American Christian/Religious Right, knows that "Gunsmoke" is iconic in their ideology.

Gunsmoke was the favourite TV programme of Leo Strauss, the godfather of American Neoconservatives - he would never miss a weekly episode.

Leo Strauss didn't just argue the case for conservative/right-wing economics, but he also had a philosophy concerning how capitalism could maintain its effluence and control over the masses.

Central to this philosophy, was that the belief that the masses should see everything as a struggle between good and evil. There should always be a central evil enemy which threatens the good of the nation and which the people should focus on. Previously the evil enemy was the Soviets, today it is the Islamists.

Strauss believed that as long as the people focused on these perceived threats, and the struggle between good and evil, then they would remain docile and easy to manipulate.

Nothing epitomised the struggle between good and evil more for Leo Strauss, and the inevitable and eventual triumph of good, than the weekly episodes of Gunsmoke, which he believed should be compulsory viewing.

So you see all this ties in very well, the made up story concerning the young Einstein arguing that evil is the absence of God, the made up story that Einstein was such a fan of a western TV series which every week represented a struggle between good and evil, that he even starred in it, and the American neoconservative Religious Right's agenda. The guys at Snopes.Com should have known that - if they had bothered to do their research.

Yeah, Jesus is a prophet (Esau) in Islam, and he didn't die and will come again, just be really old.

🙂 Junky.

Just don't confuse religion, the bible and theism.

Central to this philosophy, was that the belief that the masses should see everything as a struggle between good and evil.

OMG so the strongest modern political movement in the world's most powerful country is based on a crappy TV show?! 😯

dont use words like that the bright person is not here yet and my head is still hurting.

OMG so the strongest modern political movement in the world's most powerful country is based on a crappy TV show?!

Depressing ain't it ?

America's biggest problem is lack of good information and waaaay too much bad information.

Ernie,you never cease to amaze me with the depths of obscure trivia you are familiar with.I am off now to get a hat out of the cupboard just so I can take it off to you. 🙂

I was just thinking recently that we haven't done religion for a while

And I was thinking I'd so missed the subject.

Ernie,you never cease to amaze me with the depths of obscure trivia you are familiar with

😳 Gee thanks

Although in this case, I don't really consider it to be obscure trivia. The Neocons are a formidable political reality in the US, and they do, and have, affected people's lives across the world, including here in Britain. Knowing how they tick and what their agenda is, is imperative imo.

Have there been any wars that didnt have a huge religious component to them?

The American Civil War (more merkins killed than in all other wars put together)

EDIT: That was a pure guess. I'm waiting for someone to point out where religion came into it.

Have there been any wars that didnt have a huge religious component to them?

The present one in Libya ?

dont use words like that the bright person is not here yet and my head is still hurting.

Here I am! 😀

Soz, bin busy. I'll do an architecture thread in a bit, because that's nice and people enjoy it.

Have there been any wars that didnt have a huge religious component to them?

WW1
WW2
Vietnam
Gulf 1+2

Probbly many more actually. Those are probbly some of the most significant of the past 100 years though.

Elf + 1.Capitalism and Imperialism are where it has been at for the last 150 years.

Ernie, you've lost me there.
Leo Strauss died in 1973.
Brent Spiner made the joke about Einstein appearing in Gunsmoke in 1993.
I don't get the connection.

Anyway, back to the original question.
I quite like the well known story of the man walking with god and looking at the two sets of footprints in the sand.
It's clearly meant as a metaphor and gives an insight in to how religious people see the world.
The Einstein story is presented as fact, not a parable. Why do that when it's so easily disproved ?