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How important is FSH when buying used? Son is looking to buy his first car, and found a seemingly nice looking 1.2 Citroen DS3 (2015). Despite being 7 years old, the dealer says only 3 stamps in the the service book (1st service at 15 months, 2nd service 14 months later then a 3rd service 3 years after the 2nd. All the services have been done at roughly 16,000 mile intervals, though think the manufactures recommendation is 16k or 12mths.
Is it worth looking at or walk away at speed?
Have tried to explain how this is probably the worst time to be buying used, but he's got the bit between his teeth and there doesn't seem to many choices out there.
Hard to say, probably not. Maybe it was self-serviced or something?
Is it petrol? Turbo?
It depends, I sold a car without FSH but then I had serviced it myself and had piles of receipts for parts. If there wasn't a good reason for missing a service interval then I'd be wary of it.
Petrol 1.2 turbocharged 110ps...looks v clean in the photos, but it's the 3 year gap between the 2nd and 3rd recorded services that's bothering me.
I have never worried too much and just bought on condition. What are the tyres like, good brand, all matching make/type. Check pads/discs etc. In my experience a full service history doesn’t mean it’s been fully serviced!
My car doesn’t ask for a service until it hits the mileage. It’s usually up to the owner to get it done on the required 2yr limit. It wouldn’t put me off.
I’d rather have fewer miles on slightly older oil than lots of miles on the same oil, ran to the limit.
Shorter journeys do the most damage which is why manufacturers tend to give a mileage or annual service interval, whichever comes first. It's all well and good to say a car looks clean on the outside but the one bit you can't see and will cost the most to repair is the engine which needs oil replacing on a regular basis.
In my experience a full service history doesn’t mean it’s been fully serviced!
This is true. We had a car that came with a full dealer service history. Still had original date stamped factory parts on that should've been changed at previous services.
I wouldn't be too worried about 12 months Vs mileage.
FSH is a sign and one of many things to take into consideration. If everything else is ok and the price is right then I'd be happy
I fear you're overthinking it.
Consider what the last two years have looked like, we're in atypical times. 16k in three years is practically high mileage these days, what actually needs servicing here?
You'll be reet I reckon. Besides which, it's a first car, if it has a wheel at each corner he's ahead of the curve. I'd have greater concerns over it being a Citroen.
The bigger issue is the wet belt on that engine.
Breaks down in the oil/fuel mix especially if it's not had it's oil changed in good time.
The broken down belt then clogs the oil pump strainer.
The plus side is .... You can easy see the belt though the oil filler cap. But you can't get the sealey gauge on that way
My car doesn’t ask for a service until it hits the mileage.
Yeah that's just to keep the headline cost down for the first rental user. But does highlight how folk end up believing it's one or the other optional.
Sounds like it's been serviced at the recommended mileage intervals. Nothing missing just big time gaps which are easily explained because covid.
Very likely only had oil changes too. I would budget for the following:
Brake fluid
Fuel filter
Pollen filter
Air filter
Extra oil and filter just to be sure
Check the brakes hardware
If you end up with it I would swap to annual services.
I think it's naive/optimistic to think the person buying the brand new car then DIY'd the servicing. A Westfield perhaps, but not a Citroen hatchback.
On the other hand 12months/10,000miles type intervals related to an assumption that car's did ~2 journeys a day, every day all year. Because most of the crap stuff happens while the engine is cold. If it's not moved for 12 months does the oil need changing?
My last car sounded similar, IIRC it was 6 years old with 33k miles and only had 3 stamps despite prescribed 12 month intervals. I made it to 150,000miles without ever burning or leaking a drop of oil before dying at the hands ( and bumper, wing, A pillar, b-pillar, sill and both doors) of an impatient Zaffira taking the front bumper off which made it an economic write off. And in that time it only gained 2 more stamps (one, because I had a power steering hose replaced under warranty and had the oil, changed att he same time, the other was the cambelt 90k later) because I actually was DIYing it.
Tricky though, you could try and haggle and use the lack of history as leverage. But in reality, they'll sell it to someone else easily enough at the moment.
The bigger issue is the wet belt on that engine.
Breaks down in the oil/fuel mix especially if it’s not had it’s oil changed in good time.
The broken down belt then clogs the oil pump strainer.
Same problem as the Ford Ecoboost. I've recently heard that short journeys from cold are a factor; the rich mixture on cold start means a bit of petrol contamination in the oil, which attacks the belt, and the ethanol (E5, E10) makes it worse. So if the oil change interval is a bit dubious, getting a new cam belt fitted and the sump/oil pump cleaned may be a good move. But it's a big job on the Ford engine, don't know what it's like on the DS3.
Thanks for the comments. Good to hear FSH may not be the be all and end all, though the main gap in servicing was mostly pre-pandemic (Aug 17 to Aug 20). Dealer says it'll be serviced again as part of the sale, plus MOT. I think the price already reflects the fact it doesn't have a full history, going by other cars we've seen on Autotrader, etc. Alloys have also been refurnished, which may be another sign its not had the easiest life. Get to see it in the flesh on Wednesday...
Is the 'wet chain' the same as timing belt / cambelt?
Please don't mistake this for lacking a full history. It sounds like it definitely has a full history. Every 16k as stated. The bits missing will be the brake fluids, spark plugs etc which are not required for a "full service history". But they should be required for the car to be maintained correctly.
FSH and correct maintenance are not the same thing.
Son is looking to buy his first car
Don't worry about FSH if he's anything like I was the cars life will be shortened by ragging/handbraking round the nearest McDonalds, launching over humpback bridges, racing his mates, and bouncing off and over curbs than it ever will by an extended oil change.
Same problem as the Ford Ecoboost. . . it’s a big job on the Ford engine
The Ford ecoboost engines have a design lie of 100,000 miles, so the belt is designed to last the 'life' of the engine. Belt replacement not required 😎
No idea if Ford have changed this but who'd have believed it anyway?
If anybody does decide to replace the belt, you'll need a torque multiplier for the crank pulley bolt as it is stupid tight.
I would expect the car to be for sale for less than the same car with FSH
Yeah ford are belters. * PSA have at least issued a recall and fresh guidance on the timing belt....should be changed at 6 years for the upgraded continental belt which is coated on all sides to be impervious to the fluid..... I'll believe that when i see it.
They don't call it the 1.2 pureshite for no reason. (I do own one so have been keeping up to speed on its issues )
* Pun intended - but the little ecoboost has been a pretty shocking engine for them.
The Ford ecoboost engines have a design lie of 100,000 miles
Freudian slip in the spelling of life? Lots are failing at 60k or even less.
Is the ‘wet chain’ the same as timing belt / cambelt?
at your vehicles age its a wet belt - no chain . current gen engines are rumoured to have gone to a wet chain but ive not seen one.
Good news with these engines is that if you take the oil cap off you can see the belt and make a guestimate at its condition - generally they swell from fluid ingress and get wider - this extra width means the edge of the belt rubs and fibres are broken off and introduced to the system - doubling down the importance of frequent oil changes.
Can also block the vacumn pump take off as well causing loss of brake assistance/
https://www.byri.net/2021/04/24/1-2-puretech-psa-engine-when-to-replace-the-timing-belt/
I'll ask my brother in law and get back to you..
I'd move on. It's not a rare car so unless it's considerably cheaper just find one with FSH.
Thanks all, especially for the advice on the timing belt (@trail_rat), and the suggestion to get various filters and fluids changed at additional cost if not covered under the dealer service. After a bit of discussion, my son has now decided against ploughing a load of money into a (not entirely necessary) car at this time, and is focusing on moving out over the summer to Bath or Bristol instead. Win win!