Good grief there is some guff written on this thread. Not a massive Elvis fan, but I appreciate the impact he had.
Now Boby Dylan is a great poet; musically challenged. Same goes for Leonard Cohen imo.Springsteen, Joel, McCartney, Davies, Bowie, Wonder all genius.
I was with you until you said Billy Joel. That’s the thing as per my previous post, it doesn’t matter what impact someone had or how accomplished a musician or songwriter they are. If it sounds crap to the individual then it’s crap for that individual. If everyone liked the same thing it would be a boring world.
I find this fascinating that people dont rate Bob Dylan, one of the greatest song writers of all time, for me songs are all about the lyrics first and foremost and the singing comes after although clearly I am in the minority here. To misquote someone or other about another great song writer "man I cant sing, I sing like a frog", "yeah but you sing like a frog that can communicate".
Charlie Parker. I struggle with.
Not THE best player, not a fan of the tone or sound but did he do something revolutionary? Yes. Was what he did technically clever? Yes
As the OP stated, (to paraphrase) do I like it? Not especially
It's all subjective anyway
As a sax player there is always the assumption that I must love jazz. Do I? Nope but I absolutely live for soul and some of the really simple stuff.
It's about what speaks to the masses
Pretty controversial thread this. Well done OP!
I'd disagree with quite a bit of the above.
Into the mix I will throw:
Roni Size - one, or two fairly good tracks.
U2 - should have quit after Achtung Baby
Kanye West - so poor
Weezer - not bad, just so over rated by the fan base
PJ Harvey. You can’t open the Guardian without some trendy journo lauding her latest. Musically bland.
Roni Size – one, or two fairly good tracks.
I'd up the ante and say any critically acclaimed D&B artist.
Despite liking something from most other forms of dance music, I just never got it.
Literally couldn't stand being in the D&B room.
I really like ABBA.
Bob Dylan, one of the greatest song writers of all time,
prove it...
he’s popular because his music is massively overplayed, name a Bob Dylan song and I’ll show a cover version done a hundred times better. Like a lot of “ground breaking” artists of his time his rested on his laurels somewhat (we’ll come to that in a minute) he’s not actually produced written or performed anything of note or artistic value in 35 years.
“he’s a unique talent” say his fans, this from a man who apparently revolutionised music by picking up an electric guitar in 1968, twenty years after every other major artist had done so. And we only care about it because one bloke in Manchester was a bit cheesed off about it. According to wiki he “revolutionised the limits of popular music” translation: his songs are 2 mins longer than they need to be. the Beatles released Revolver in 1966... Dylan has churned out the same album filling dirges ever year since. And let’s be clear, his music is rooted in folk and blues...hardly the stuff of revolution.
but all that pales into insignificance when compared to that voice, a clown horn mixed with fox sex...greatest poet my arse
folk and blues…hardly the stuff of revolution.
I think you may be displaying your ignorance of the history of folk and blues music there, there are many who would have an issue with statement. Woody Guthrie for a start.
Bob Dylan, one of the greatest song writers of all time,
prove it…
he’s popular because his music is massively overplayed, name a Bob Dylan song and I’ll show a cover version done a hundred times better.
You just did
Usage of the word “dirge” has never been so high on STW.
I crossed that one out on the bingo card ages ago. Come on, stop being so derivative folks.
On the Billy Joel front, he's far from genius, and rarely (if ever?) critically lauded, but I think he's a decent songwriter.
I especially like Angry Young Man, which reminds me of a few folks on here...
There's a place in the world for the angry young man
With his working class ties and his radical plans
He refuses to bend, he refuses to crawl
He's always at home with his back to the wall
And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost
And he struggles and bleeds as he hangs on the cross
And he likes to be known as the angry young man
Give a moment or two to the angry young man
With his foot in his mouth and his heart in his hand
He's been stabbed in the back, he's been misunderstood
It's a comfort to know his intentions are good
And he sits in a room with a lock on the door
With his maps and his medals laid out on the floor
And he likes to be known as the angry young man
I believe I've passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight
I once believed in causes too
I had my pointless point of view
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right
And there's always a place for the angry young man
With his fist in the air and his head in the sand
And he's never been able to learn from mistakes
So he can't understand why his heart always breaks
But his honor is pure and his courage as well
And he's fair and he's true and he's boring as hell
And he'll go to the grave as an angry old man
Usage of the word “dirge” has never been so high on STW
And only one person has used it correctly...
Something for the Abba fans...
Woody Guthrie for a start.
he’s dead, he died over 50 years ago. His songs may have been revolutionary a half century ago, but they ain’t any more. Like Bob he’s as mainstream as they come. When Dylan allows banks to use his music and Guthrie’s estate allows Audi to use Car Song in adverts they loose the right to be called a revolutionary.
he’s dead, he died over 50 years ago.
Which part of the word history did you not understand?
Which part of “don’t care” do you not understand.
prove it…
Name me one other songwriter who has won the Nobel prize...
this from a man who apparently revolutionised music by picking up an electric guitar in 1968,
1968 he’d put down his electric and picked up an acoustic again. The infamous Pete Seeger ax attack was at Newport in ‘65, Bringing it back home released earlier the same year.
his music is rooted in folk and blues…hardly the stuff of revolution.
Err, he started off as folk singer, and I’d suggest that you ignore >50% of the Western ‘popular’ music output as also based on the above. Also missing the point that his ‘revolution’ was in his lyrics.
Poor Bob, must be crying all the way to the bank, 300 million tears...
Err, he started off as folk singer, and I’d suggest that you ignore >50% of the Western ‘popular’ music output as also based on the above.
and the other 50% if Blues isn't allowed as an influence either.
Also missing the point that his ‘revolution’ was in his lyrics.
he’s allowed a bank to use Like a rolling stone in an advert. That is not an act of revolution, that is literally selling out to “the man”
By this measure, the beastie boys are more revolutionary than Bob will ever be.
Nile Rodgers changed my bed-wetting, sitting-on-the-fence lefty liberal mind on whether music is "good" or "bad" -
Rodgers told an anecdote about the day he complained to his jazz tutor about having to perform top 40 records during a show. “I’ve got to play these bullshit songs like, ‘sugar, sugar, ohhh honey honey’—it’s all lame stuff,” Rodgers said, recounting what he’d told his tutor. Rodgers said his jazz tutor answered that any song that sells and gets to the top 40, top 20 or top 10 is a great composition. Rodgers then asked him, “how can you call, “Sugar, Sugar” a great composition?” “And he said something that changed my life. He said, ‘Because it speaks to the souls of a million strangers.’”
I think genuinely bad music is rare, and you'd have to go looking to find it - I think there's just music I like, and there's music I don't like. Doesn't make it bad music, it just means it"s not for me. 🙂
I find this fascinating that people dont rate Bob Dylan, one of the greatest song writers of all time, for me songs are all about the lyrics first and foremost and the singing comes after although clearly I am in the minority here.
I like his voice - it isn't a beautiful voice but there is plenty of emotion, and the melodies/phrasing of many of his songs are fantastic. See also Tom Waits etc.
I think there’s just music I like, and there’s music I don’t like. Doesn’t make it bad music, it just means it”s not for me.
Absolutely. I know I started this, but I didn't mean it to be an avenue to slag off other people's tastes (although if I'm honest I knew it might turn into one).
For me AC/DC really grind my gears.
Add in Aerosmith or more precisely Steve Tyler.
Controversially The Foo Fighters couple of decent songs but to have them repeated over however many albums. Although there latest one is not bad, and don't get me started on people that call them 'The Foos'.
No votes for Joe Cocker yet? He's been very quiet lately!
“A few good songs...repeated over and over...”
Think we’ve had that earlier but I’d forgotten to cross it off.
On the Billy Joel front, he’s far from genius, and rarely (if ever?) critically lauded, but I think he’s a decent songwriter.
He's the epitome of mediocrity.
Which part of “don’t care” do you not understand.
Sorry I thought we were attempting to have a discussion. As you were, rant away.
Not sure "The Foos" are universally lauded?
We could def have another thread for "hugely successful artists that you just find a bit bland".
We could even allow Coldplay in that one.
Nickc - Are you a student? You seem very righteous about things that don't matter.
“A few good songs…repeated over and over…”
Does this mean the Quo are out?
:O
Must have been mentioned already but Bob Dylan is a very difficult listen for me. I give him grudging respect as a songwriter but his voice is just horrid, and that was in his prime, I gather it's far worse now.
I'm with StuartMaconie that "All right thinking people respect and love the Beatles. Never trust anyone who doesn’t". Good piece on McCartney vs Lennon here Some patchiness but so much material and when it's good its great (discovered his 1998 ambient Techno album released and the Fireman on the back of that piece)
ABBA too.
But Led Zep I've never understood the reverence for. Nor Pink Floyd (though I've had times when I've been into them) and though I had a period of liking The Doors can't stand them now either. It might be the pompousness of them all that does it.
Elton John I've never got understood - some amazing songs but such an unlikely star. Can't quite work out how he ever fitted into a 'scene' and whether he'd have made it in a later era.
More recent stuff - Foo Fighters. So average.
We could even allow Coldplay in that one.
NO! Coldplay should never be allowed anywhere, ever.
Sorry I thought we were attempting to have a discussion.
Saying “what bit of history don’t you understand” is not discussion, if you want to chat, dial back the gain on your terse setting...
Tracey Emin.
Bob Dylan a poor singer! Shock horror. You mean like Tom Waits, Roger Chapman. Joe Cocker (how is Joe these days?) et al?
Some of the most characterful voices are less than musical.
A lot of mine are repeats from above
ABBA make my teeth itch
Never liked Bob Dylan
Paul McCartney should have bowed out gracefully 30 years ago
I crossed “Coldplay” out on the bingo card very early.
That link that Thols posted has a good point made in a load of BS 🙂
It's true that Easy Listening has underrated stuff lumped in there - listen to Dionne Warwick's recordings of Bacharach and David songs, they are brilliant compositions, performances and good recording too. But his premise of 'there's no vinyl of Jimi Hendrix in the shops' is because anyone with them is hanging onto them not getting rid, even if some of the EasyListening albums did outsell by the boatload (Tijuana brass!). Also the beatles are a great example of well recorded pop songs that have distorted guitars so I don't know why he moans about that....
There is also a lot of dross EasyListening - James Last ? Perry Como ? Jim Reeves ? no thanks
Where is everyone on the Bee Gees? While it’s easy to scoff, there are undoubtedly some tracks that you have to be dead to not tap your feet along with and the number of no1 singles and album sales are phenomenal
Saying “what bit of history don’t you understand” is not discussion, if you want to chat, dial back the gain on your terse setting…
Its also not a discussion if you dont read what the other poster wrote and just carry on ranting, but dont you worry kid, crack on.
Some of the most characterful voices are less than musical.
Wayne Coyne being the standout. I mean his singing is *terrible* but The Flaming Lips are an amazing live band. I hated the Smiths until a few years ago - just couldn't get past Morrissey's voice and delivery.
The BeeGees are fantastic (the new doc on Sky Docs is worth a watch). Some stuff does get tired from being overplayed - I can imagine if you were listening to US radio with it's notoriously small playlists at a time when the BeeGees had I think 6 records in the top ten, even more if you were a DJ playing it, it would have started to grate. But just *listen* to Stayin Alive (or even better this remix...
The beat, the baseline, the horns, the strings - just the *groove* of it.
but dont you worry kid, crack on
thanks Grandad 👍
he’s allowed a bank to use Like a rolling stone in an advert. That is not an act of revolution, that is literally selling out to “the man”
By this measure, the beastie boys are more revolutionary than Bob will ever be.
And just exactly what has any of the above have on Bobs songwriting ability? You do realise that there is a metaphorical as well as literal interpretation of revolution, yes? It’s not all dope, guns and ****ing in the streets. Do you think that perhaps the intervening, oh, 50-odd years passage of time might have affected how he feels about things (considering he tried to completely disassociate himself from the whole voice of a generation thing from the off)? Your interpretation comes across as, well, naive to me.
Not sure what the beasties were dragged into it for, but they both coexist in my world, I’m a big fan of both.
PJ Harvey
yep. Ticks every box: Original Peel Darling (OPD) critically acclaimed Jules Holland Regular (JHR), frequently praised in the Guardian (PIG). Just a bit draggy and tedious. Like Nick Cave.
ABBA? I've a memory I'm trying to repress of a karaoke rendition of Dancing Queen in an East London pub. Thank god, repressed it again. Obv great melodies, three in every song, and great straight ahead pop music, but they do plod somewhat.