Jeez that Vito is expensive! I guess they’re in short supply at the moment.
There was ajump during covid that has not come back down, I started looking in late 2019, planning to buy in spring 2020.Prices looked much lower than now.
When covid came I waited thinking we may not be able to do much driving anyway, and suddenly its 2023 and everything is 4 or 5k sharper.
16000 miles is good for Transit front tyres? WTF??? I'm at 34000 on a Dispatch XL crew van and still maybe 6 months off replacing the fronts (and that will be nowhere near worn to the limit).
The XL in Dispatch etc and some Vitos get the extra length from the rear overhang, so they fit a normal space if there is a verge or kerb to overhang a little at the back. And drive a bit more normally because not a huge wheelbase.
We've done lots of foreign trips and I fully understand wanting bikes inside for city stop offs etc (locked to a solid bracket in the bodywork, with the locking point and D-lock hard to cut as buried under the bikes).
We are on a Toyota ProAce having had the Citroen Spacetourer before that. These vans are great. All rear seats are removable, foldable and slide so perfect as an 8 seat bus, 2 seat hauler, 4 seat bike weekend etc. I built a tie down platform so luggage goes under and bikes on top.
We have had ours on a hire, so not sure what they can be bought for second hand.
Good MPG as well and really nice to drive if you aren't in a rush and well specced and comfortable. I actually prefer driving it to my wife's car and the practicality of it wins every time.
16000 miles is good for Transit front tyres?
Just going by what my local tyre place said (punctured rear had to be replaced). They said usually 12000. I still have more tread left btw.
We are on a Toyota ProAce having had the Citroen Spacetourer before that. These vans are great.
Are they they same van but different badges?
Here is an LWB one good value. This could be just the ticket.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211121617617
Previous shape facelift Vito can easily be had for half the OP budget.
Mileage is relative as vans tend to have more miles on them than cars. Sub 200k is considered low on a Vito, even if many Transporters fail to get beyond that, there are a good few Vitos out there hitting 500k
Can these be changed back, or is it fixed?
Yeah they can be all facing forward or the second row can be flipped round to face backwards, I think they call it conference position. All on on floor rails. The kids love it like that, I'd prefer them all facing forward, but it is much nicer for people in the back, and we quite often have a few others in there.
Mines a 64 plate, last of the W639's full leather seats and fancy interior. Fits under 2m height barriers so good for the French tolls if you ha e a toll tag.
It's just hit 100k, so I'm banking on getting another 200k miles out if it!!
Just going by what my local tyre place said (punctured rear had to be replaced). They said usually 12000. I still have more tread left btw.
Transit owner here, 12k is absolutely not usual. But my van is rarely carrying its full weight capacity, most of the loads are bulky but light.
It’s just hit 100k, so I’m banking on getting another 200k miles out if it!!
I bought a new Dualiner 639 3L V6 in 2006.
Sold it in 2019 with 230000 miles when I bought my 447 Tourer. The MOT garage I use bought it and it’s still going strong.
Slightly larger than nuclear family here but regardless, the caravelle IS the ultimate activity supporting vehicle.
If only you could get it with a pop top…
Beach 😗
Where are those pads around the bikes from?
They are just what I need.
They are from a sail maker on the South Coast RB Sails. They are bombproof. Had them for seven years and not damaged a bike in transit yet.
We also use them in the back of the camper. They have been allover Europe. Wouldn't transport the bikes without them.
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Just tell them Tracey sent you as I suspect there have been several orders on the back of Tracey's recommendation! Surely about time a deal was available. 😀
People saying a Skoda superb cramped to the eyeballs with 4 people and luggage will be more comfortable than a van down to France, clearly haven’t driven modern high spec vans.
The massive extra space to stretch out and upright captains chairs (so your legs aren’t extended out in front of you for hours, rather you’re sat like you would be in a normal chair similar to in an suv), and being able to see well over everything on the roads, makes for a very relaxing cruiser.
Plus they just swallow everything. No rack nonsense or having to even think about Tetris with bags.
I drive an SMax. In many respects it's a brilliant biking/ sailing/ family day out motor. Loads of space in it for luggage and people. Three bikes and three people inside with a bit of juggling and in good conditions it's an insanely comfy and relaxing place to be.
BUT now I'm driving regularly for work again post Covid it's daily driver downsides are more obvious. High amongst which is low 40s mpg and being high sided it's not exactly 10/10 in the current high wind dominated weather.
YMMV but think very carefully about whether that everyday compromise is really worth not taking a trailer or bike rack. It may well be but if you're clocking up a lot of "functional" miles don't underestimate the annoyance factor of the downsides.
Although re reading your OP maybe you don't cover the same commute/work driving/lightly loaded trips to extended family miles that I do in which case you're probably far better placed to live with the compromises than I am.
Reading the title and completely ignoring the original post here is mine suggestion…
Surely though it's not the ultimate biking vehicle unless the bikes are fully out of sight ?
The Viano/Traveliner and Transit Tourneo, still leave the bikes in sight if you walk away... Sure, not in plain sight if you've got tinted windows, but still if someone is looking/checking, they'd still see £10k of bikes in the back. That for me was a deal breaker as it's likely/possible i'll be leaving a bike or two in there at times...
Surely though it’s not the ultimate biking vehicle unless the bikes are fully out of sight ?
The Viano/Traveliner and Transit Tourneo, still leave the bikes in sight if you walk away… Sure, not in plain sight if you’ve got tinted windows, but still if someone is looking/checking, they’d still see £10k of bikes in the back. That for me was a deal breaker as it’s likely/possible i’ll be leaving a bike or two in there at times…
They're out of sight enough to stop opportunistic scrotes though, who might see a nice bike hanging on the back of a car, and have enough tools with them to have a go at the locks/remove various peices of expensive kit from the bike.
i get you... but i'd still worry... especially if somewhere like Afan and leaving in car park. FoD for example i'd worry a lot less...
Tbh at a busy trail car park I'd worry even less as there'll be loads of bikes on cars (aka, 'easy pickings') for them to not have to bother trying to get into a car/van!
The biggest worry for me is parking up at a remote hotel car park, or staying somewhere for a few days. It doesn't take much to have the bikes seen and be followed and then a battery angle grinder in the night... whoosh, 10k of bikes gone.
Having gone through the same thought process with expensive motorbikes, if someone wants them bad enough, you can't protect against it - but put in enough deterrents and you'll prevent all but the most determined thieves from having a go. The more things they have to get around/through, the more people you deter.
The very first step in this is not having the bikes on show for anyone and their dog to see! 😁
I reckon a VW Caravelle or Combi is the way to go. I have a T5 van converted to a camper. The rear seats (rock and roll type) aren't that comfortable but I'm not too bothered as I'm always driving. A Caravelle or Combi doesn't have the reduced speed limits of a converted van though to be honest I'm never really bothered as I don't drive fast. It is a 2005 model but I can still get over 40mph if I drive carefully. They also have proper rear seats so comfort isn't an issue.
As for the size, it is the same as a Mondeo so will fit in a normal supermarket parking space (A long wheel base will not as it is 40cm longer). It has the added advantage of having a sliding door which is great in car parks as it makes it easier to get in and out of than a car.
As for problems well, a big one where I live is low emission zones. It costs £9 to drive into the city. These are springing up all over the place so if it is your only vehicle, this may be a problem. Also, they are expensive though you would be able to get a decent one for £20,000 albeit not one that will get into a low emission zone free. It won't depreciate either. Ours is still worth what we paid for it 10 years ago.
Most of the above seem to miss that you have the 2 kids, let alone dogs in for the ride. We did Europe in a LWB Transporter this year, but had to put bikes on the back as by the time you fill it with everything you want to live with there's not much room for 1-2 bikes, let alone 4. We went with cheaper bikes on a towbar rack so I didn't worry so much about the theft (Although I'd have still been gutted) and the 'proper' bike in the van buried for when we got to the Alps. 4 people, plus dogs, plus 4 bikes inside any vehicle beyond a Sprinter size van will always be a game of uncomfortable Tetris IMHO.
Just going by what my local tyre place said (punctured rear had to be replaced). They said usually 12000.
Depends on wheelsize. On owners group plenty of Transit Custom folk with 18" or bigger wheels moan about tyres lasting <10k miles. No problems with normal 16" though, I'm on 25k on original Pirelli Carrier all-seasons in 215/65r16C with plenty of tread remaining.
I feel like I have answered my own question, but which van
You have, in terms of thinking a van. Which van though... in STW recommend-what-you-own style, a dual-cab L2 Transit Custom. You'll get one within £20k budget. Your use description is same as ours minus the dogs. 2+2 family, multiple bikes inside several times weekly, camping holidays loaded to the gunnels. Having bikes hidden from view was a priority although we've since added a tailgate rack for flinging bikes on easier/quickly when we're fully loaded. It's also my only vehicle used for weekly shopping, kids afterschool activities etc.
Its all a compromise. A big estate would be more suitable much of the time, but having bikes hidden from sight and using it as a mobile changing room after biking/paddleboarding is worth the compromise for us.
Cargo area on a Transit Custom is impacted by the extra seats, compared to @Weeky's van version. Even with L2's extra length over L1, front wheels come off to fit bikes in lengthways - a couple of bikes wheels-on diagonally is possible. Multiple configurations possible: I can carry up to 3 bikes on individual fork mounts, bars straight, but >3 bikes requires twisting handlebars. Or, I can closely pack 2 bikes either side leaving centre of cargo area for camping stuff.
Fork mounts on raised platform at bulkhead with folding crates (camping gear and bike washer) plus a Portaloo permanently stored underneath:
had to put bikes on the back as by the time you fill it with everything you want to live with there’s not much room for 1-2 bikes, let alone 4. We went with cheaper bikes on a towbar rack so I didn’t worry so much about the theft (Although I’d have still been gutted) and the ‘proper’ bike in the van buried for when we got to the Alps
Bingo. As you say, bikes inside seriously redcued space for other stuff. Alternative is to add a roofbox for 'other stuff', still allowing 4 x bikes inside. We only need ours for the bigger camping holidays and negates the need for packing Tetris. I'd rather that than have any bikes on show whatsoever.
Saying that, we've recently added a tailgate-mounted 2-bike rack for extra flexibility for biking trips - the cheaper/kids bikes on that and proper bikes buried inside same as above. Rear rack not used if we're stopping off overnight or for a day visit somewhere enroute though.
That's a nice set up @a11y
Despite the space that van gives you, add 2 dogs into the mix and I can't see where they'd go, which means the OP needs something even bigger... 🫤
I'm glad it's just me and my bikes I have to cater for 90% of the time! 🤣
Get a Transporter T5/6 Combi. Costly to buy but they hold their value like nothing else on the road. Buy anything else and you'll always be wondering if you are forever the bridesmaid but never the bride. They are popular for a good reason IMO.
Oh and don't buy a Vito. Almost every one I've seen seems to be more rust than actual metal.
Oh and don’t buy a Vito. Almost every one I’ve seen seems to be more rust than actual metal.
How old were they ? That changed a LOT in 2008 as they became galvenized (or however you spell)
Rather than the T5/T6 thing (which won't be large enough) - I'd suggest a Crafter as those tend to be larger and more likely to have space for everything - as I mentioned in a previous post, there isn't 1 thing that will fit everything in readily as it needs to be a compromise for everything, but something larger will make the compromises smaller. Issue with going larger is generally cost as that will increase (not forgetting the larger size for height restrictions and parking spaces/ferry pricing, etc.).
A Crafter (IMO) crosses the line between what's usable as a daily driver and what's not. Like you say though, compromises.
I previously exclusively used a VW T5 LWB camper as my daily for 2 years and anything bigger would've been a PITA daily. Engaged in some extreme parking yesterday in the Transit: can just about get away with sticking it in a normal car park space, not a chance with anything bigger.
Our 2011 SWB T5.1. It:
- probably worth 20k although the van market is still mental
- sleeps 4 with the Reimo roof and Amdro kombi bed
- seats 6 (usually 4 of us plus the dog)
- rear seats unclipped in seconds to make a "proper" van - had a pallet of tiles forklifted into it last year which I eouldnt have been able to do with my estate car
- does 600+ on a tank
- easy fits 3 bikes in without trying. 4 is easy without wheels and still have loads of room for bags etc
- tow bar for rack if needed
- roof rails for roof box when a bit of extra space is needed
- ability on non-bike holidays to catapult everything including the kitchen sink into the back and still gave room to then load all my non-essential-but-nice-to-take fishing gear in too
Similar to A11y I've got a crew cab L2 Transit Custom. Bulkhead keeps the dirty bikes and stuff separate from the cabin and completely out of sight. Single passenger seat so cabin feels spacious and comfortable even with 5 adults. Not sure what A11y is riding but I can easily fit 4 bikes in the back with wheels on and I've got shelves running along one side. Footprint is actually smaller than the Ranger I had before, which was rubbish.
Think this all depends on how the dogs travel?
In cages in the back? Then a crew cab with bulkhead.
In cabin with you? Then a minibus-type van.
Then do you want the bikes inside as well (recommended)?
Yes? Then LWB version.
No? Then SWB will probably do fine.
Doesn't look like it will make it over any speed bumps though! 😉
And yeah, Crafter is a big beastie, but it will reduce a number of the compromises (whilst introducing new ones)...
I was thinking about this last night reading this if I was looking to buy but not sure on how it would work for me.
We were lucky as we drove past the right van at the right to us price and bought it that day, If we hadn't been detoured due to an accident we wouldn't have seen it and we weren't even looking.
We also knew from owning a camper how we stored the bikes inside it so had a bit of an idea what we wanted.
I think it would be of help to prospective purchases if they could benefit from others experience as to how they load their bikes/kit with tips and photos.
Would it help anyone, would anyone be interested
Another vote for a T5 Kombi
Huge Dog crate to look after the hounds, can squeeze a few bikes in there for day trips - Atera Strada on towbar when the bus is full..
5 Adult size seats - we had Merc E class and Volvo estates prior to this - nowhere near the capacity/capabilities of the tranporter.
Same footprint as the estate car - Mrs reckons the school run is way easier in the van as people give her more consideration.
As the kids grow up we might go up to a Ducato size next time...we don't go to cities very much and don't have that many parking challenges locally
I think it would be of help to prospective purchases if they could benefit from others experience as to how they load their bikes/kit with tips and photos.
Would it help anyone, would anyone be interested
YES
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52271632134_055d7fef2e_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52271632134_055d7fef2e_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2nD4M7N ]2022-08-08_10-14-29[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Will get pics of bikes in it later this week - I'm constructing a rack at the minute which bolts into the rear most lashing points and then has a number of axle mounts attached which will slide/swivel to make fitting with front wheels off easier but also stop them from moving/knocking into each other... Prototyping it at the min...
Not sure what A11y is riding but I can easily fit 4 bikes in the back with wheels on and I’ve got shelves running along one side.
Yes, I should clarify I could fit in 4 x bikes with wheels on (before adding my platform/storage).
I think it would be of help to prospective purchases if they could benefit from others experience as to how they load their bikes/kit with tips and photos.
OK, here goes mine. Ford Transit Custom DCIV (5-seater) L2 with bulkhead and tailgate. Raised platform against bulkhead with folding crates lengthways underneath. Fork mount brackets bolted directly to wooden top of platform, although I also have a Saris track system I can use which allows fork mounts to be repositioned more easily.
One, two or three bikes: front wheels off, bars straight.
Four or five bikes: front wheels off, bars turned.
I chose to use fork mounts to avoid issues of bikes rubbing together when driving (Tracey-style pads was my alternative plan), and isn't a very efficient use of the space I know. Certainly posible to pack them more efficiently.
^^^ Old bikes and pre-tarting up with carpet etc but pic gives an idea of the space in the back of a L2 DCIV Transit Custom. Those are 4x adult 29ers inc a couple with near 1300mm WBs. Longest bike I've had in was my extra-longest G15 with 1340mm WB - fitted lengthways with fork axle at bulkhead, rear tyre brushing the tailgate...
^^^ I've added a couple of supports to raise the rear wheels off the floor - opens up the floor area for loading in camping stuff, coolbox, etc. Kids bikes get strapped to ours if we need the space in the middle for 'stuff', or can go outside on the tailgate rack.
I thought I had pics of it fully loaded for a camping trip but I only have part-loaded:
^^^ 2 adult 29ers, 2 x 24" kids bikes, powered fridge/freezer, carry-on sized luggage x 2, pillows, induction hob (purple box vertical), and 4 x storage boxes with stuff. Raised platform with 3 x crates and portaloo still in there too. Not shown is all the STUFF still to be added... Was also my previous attempt at raising the bike rear wheels off the ground but the continuous beam across the van was a PITA (was only secured in with velcro).
All our 'stuff' goes in boxes for ease or organisation even though it's not efficiently using up space - we'd fit more stuff in if it was simply chucked in loose, but that's not my style.
^^^ there's space under the rear bench for 4 x camping chairs, a trolley jack (cos standard scissor jacks are lethal), tools, windbreak, sunshade for side of van, can't remember what else. Individual front seats, heated (p)leather, swivels, electric adjustment on drivers.
^^^ C-channel Sikaflex'd into the roof channel - can attach sunshade or driveaway awning using a pole n clamp. Roof rails I added when we bought the van, proper load-rated ones rather than for styling.
^^^ Fiamma 2-bike tailgate rack (can add 3rd bike rail too), and Kamei Husky XXL 510L (but more like a 600L) roofbox. Still space for bike carriers either side of the roofbox, but not required. Also shows full-length sidesteps I fitted - functional to help the kids climb in, not (just) for looks.
Five and a half years in and still making enhancements/tweaks to refine what works for us.
I've been told that the fords are crap for security and reliability. I'm not sure I believe either, any comments?
1. Correct, Price is £500 for Hook locks and anti-peel bracket supplied and fitted.
2. Not as far as i know. They sold more Transits than ANYTHING last year (according to top gear anyway).
I have this internal discussion regularly - most often, when parked in a trail centre car park, stood in my pants, cold and wet, trying to avoid getting a tire track on an alcantara headlining and looking over at someobody wheeling a complete bike into their LWB van and getting changed inside!
I've always had two cars, my 'normal' car currently is a very large, comparatively practical E-Class Estate and I think regularly about changing to something a bit more utility.
My own Dad is a long time fan of the Berlingo/Partner/Rifter/Kangooo etc. This was always ean easy choice for him becauyse his purchase criteria were 'is it massive inside/cheap to run/does loads of MPG' and nothing else. He had loads of them and I always thought that they were incredibly useful but not for me.
Now as a family, who likes biking, camping etc, even the E-class is pushing it. Fundamentally, its the bikes - the car will swallow a tonne of camping gear, but bikes would have to go on the roof.
Cars like the previous and new gen Caddy Maxi Life/Grand Tourneo Connect are about the only thing I might possibly consider, and even then the issue is only very very recent and high spec ones, or the brand new collab version (thus, expensive) are the only ones at all viable. I'd need to spend 4x the value of my very nice, 260bhp, quiet, 7 speed automatic, comfy, spacious (for a car) Estate to get anything I'd want to actually use as a car.
Every time I borrow a van or go out with mates who have them I am amazed by it in the short term and proceed directly to autotrader. Soon thereafter. comes the the realisation of having to drive a van. Every day. Most of time completely empty. By choice...
Now none of this seems to make much sense to many of you as evidenced by some of the comments, which is great for you, however some people actually enjoy driving! Its also apparent/amusing how many people comment that their van drives just as good as a car. I can only presume you have only ever driven terrible cars.
Being both a mountainbiker/outdoorsy person, AND a car person, are two very difficult to blend interests.
On the topic - has anyone had a look a a new gen VW/Ford collab Caddy/Tourneo? Being MQB based it might actually not be too bad to drive, it certainly sounds like a big improvement.
Every time I borrow a van or go out with mates who have them I am amazed by it in the short term and proceed directly to autotrader. Soon thereafter. comes the the realisation of having to drive a van. Every day. Most of time completely empty. By choice…
As said matey, they drive really nice... My Custom has heated seats, windscreen, air-con, DAB, loads of space, upright position. I really really like how it drives... But i'll be the first to admit, i'm not a car person in the slightest.
Nice pics A11y. I am so far down the rabbit hole now.
