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but this one seems particularly relevant
I believe the quote came from a US Army General quite recently, I think about either the Gulf or Kuwait war. If Napoleon did say it (which he didn't) perhaps he wouldn't have let his supply lines get quite so extended when he tried to invade Russia?
This is Ukrainian reporting and I am mindful that they have every reason to make exaggerated claims. Though I really want to believe this is true, my inner sceptic is voicing reservations, I hope it's mistaken. Claims their marines destroyed 30 helicopters on the ground at an airfield near Kherson.
https://twitter.com/UKRINFORM/status/1500742619571396613?s=20&t=CpwpzRGh5oZhNPLDao9h5g
A pair of B-52 Stratofortress took off from the UK, and are now over Germany heading East.
They do that most / every day. See the ‘increase in military flights thread’
I'm following them now for the first time. Is it usually an out and back?
thols2
Free Member
Anyhow, on those maps in particular what we want to see is bits turning blue, ukrainian counter offenses.Obviously, pushing them back from the cities would be a major objective for the Ukrainians. However, this article from last November pretty much predicted the logistic problem that Russia is having now.
FEEDING THE BEAR: A CLOSER LOOK AT RUSSIAN ARMY LOGISTICS AND THE FAIT ACCOMPLI
Having the Russians extended out more than 50 miles from railheads starts to strain their truck fleet. Take that out to 150 miles and each truck can only make return journey per day on good roads. One volley of rockets takes one truckload, so resupplying the rocket artillery is unsustainable if there are Ukrainian snipers and Javelin squads lurking the countryside taking potshots. I don’t think the Ukrainians will be in any hurry to follow the Jon Snow doctrine of rushing out into the open for a big set piece battle.
Makes sense as to why the Russians seem to be taking a slow and methodical approach. I'm not sure it's the only reason though. As I've said before, I'm pretty sure the Russians could turn up the attrition level many times. I thought it was interesting that the Russians have opened land corridors to Russia and Belarus only now. Tells you that they don't want people flight I think. Pure speculation, but re-education centres spring to mind.
Is it usually an out and back?
Usually head North East, I believe, rather than their current route. But Perhaps we should take this to the other thread? I honestly hadn't noticed it before, I should have posted there not here, sorry.
I believe the quote came from a US Army General quite recently, I think about either the Gulf or Kuwait war. If Napoleon did say it (which he didn’t) perhaps he wouldn’t have let his supply lines get quite so extended when he tried to invade Russia?
You are absolutley right- I just looked it up, General Omar Bradley. This is why I hate those quote memes! The internet must be about 95% bullshit
Russians seem to be taking a slow and methodical approach
It's not slow, it's stationary. That isn't in anyone's how-to-conquer-a-country plan.
They are stuck, and they will fail.
Useful explainer on why the maps show areas that haven't been cleared of Ukrainian resistance as under Russian "control".
https://twitter.com/JennyCafarella/status/1500487549659365376
deleted.
This is why I hate those quote memes!
I suspect the quote has been around in some form for as long as there were armies.
"Amateurs talk (about) strategy. Professionals talk (about) logistics” is a saying that has been printed on many images. “Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics. Professionals talk about logistics and sustainability in warfare” was said by Robert Hilliard Barrow (1922-2008), a United States Marine Corps four-star general, in an interview published in the San Diego (CA) Union on November 11, 1979.
Omar Bradley (1893-1981), the last five-star officer of the United States, is often credited, but it’s uncertain if he ever said it. “For military command is as much a practice of human relations as it is a science of tactics and a knowledge of logistics”—a somewhat related quotation—was printed in Bradley’s book, A Soldier’s Story (1951). “I was reminded of what General Omar Bradley once said: ‘Amateurs talk about strategy; professionals talk about logistics’” was a letter printed in The Economist (London, UK) on November 16, 1996. General Bradley’s statements were usually recorded, and it’s unlikely that he said it and that it would not be cited in print before 1996.
“Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics”
11 November 1979, San Diego (CA) Union, “Q&A: Marines’ (General Robert—ed.) Barrow Backs SALT—And Conventional Rearming,” pg. C4, col. 4:
Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics. Professionals talk about logistics and sustainability in warfare.
On the IT front, could Microsoft / Apple / Linux / Android etc push out an update that would cripple the russian IT infrastructure or do the russians have different have operating systems?
I thought it was interesting that the Russians have opened land corridors to Russia and Belarus only now.
I don't they've done this still, despite pleas that they should. People have made it through, but it's not open, it is not safe.
Surely iPhone/Apple have enough control over their devices that they could ping messages to them detailing WTF is going on?
Surely iPhone/Apple have enough control over their devices that they could ping messages to them detailing WTF is going on?
And why would they believe it - they have been told the West is the agitator, and that Ukraine is run by drug gangs and Nazis. Why will they believe anything sent by the west ?
On the IT front, could Microsoft / Apple / Linux / Android etc push out an update that would cripple the russian IT infrastructure or do the russians have different have operating systems?
They could do, but that might reasonably be considered as a direct attack.
I’d be pretty nervous if I were in Romania, Hungary, North Macedonia
Looking how well his army is doing in Ukraine I doubt invading NATO members is very desirable to him at the moment.
I'd imagine folks in Moldova aren't 100% secure though
‘kin hell‘
Johnson's got to go, he's a disgrace and an embarrassment. I'm thoroughly ashamed to be British at the moment.
Sadly - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60642100
On the IT front, could Microsoft / Apple / Linux / Android etc push out an update that would cripple the russian IT infrastructure or do the russians have different have operating systems?
The Russian Ministry of Truth is still running Vindows Vista.
https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1500595585858129920
Looking how well his army is doing in Ukraine I doubt invading NATO members is very desirable to him at the moment.
Indeed, apart from having nukes they seem pretty weak, bringing 20th century warfare to a 21st century battle. However on the media front they've created a home narrative that has the support of many Russians whilst effectively making opposing views illegal. I'm not sure how you win that one and I can see the issue for social media companies soviet staff facing jail which is another reason for them suspending operations. I can only think putting pressure on more western companies (Amazon, SWIFT etc) to withdraw might make raise the issue more visible with ordinary Russians.
"Looking how well his army is doing in Ukraine I doubt invading NATO members is very desirable to him at the moment."
You cut out the bit where I said that had he taken Ukraine in 3 days, those countries might have been worried.
Then I went on to make exactly the point you've just made.
Having the Russians extended out more than 50 miles from railheads starts to strain their truck fleet. Take that out to 150 miles
Which is why Russia are more focused on taking the (rail stations in) southern cities, and they've had a lot more success there.
johnson - lebedev has been an open secret for years with too few people expressing any concerns.
johnson dropping his minders to attend a weekend long lash-up at lebedev's Italian palazzo didn't just happen once.
Being seen at Italian airport dishevelled and hung over.
Private Eye is your friend.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next issue - end of next week - revisited johnson's relationship with two beards.
You cut out the bit where I said that had he taken Ukraine in 3 days
Oops, I seem to have missed that bit. Soz.
No worries slowoldman!
I think a lot of the conversation around winning/losing is partially irrelevant; he may not be 'winning' militarily, but he has stopped a country functioning as a it ordinarily should, caused a humanitarian crisis and reinforced the division of East vs West to potentially a new level.
I can't help but think he's well happy with that.
I think I'm going to panic fill up the tank. Should last me a while since I am also going to panic not-drive-anywhere.
Reports that Russian demands have softened in talks.
-change constitution to not allow EU or NATO membership
-recognise crimea and Eastern autonomous regions as Russian
The demilitarisation and denazification has been dropped.
I’m thoroughly ashamed to be British at the moment.
I am very proud to be British, with the efforts made to raise funds and send supplies as part of the humanitarian effort.
I am thoroughly ashamed of the British government, but that's been ongoing for most of the last 15 years or more.
Yet again, tarring an entire country with the same brush distorts the reality of the situation.
That's going to be a hard decision ^^
It's got to be a no. Anything else is a Russian win, ie they come out of it better than started which will only give them time to regroup and try again in a few years. They would know that just threatening a nuclear attack will get them (some of) what they want.
As unpleasant as it is the fight has to continue until they either withdraw completely or Putin is toppled and then they withdraw completely.
This is very easy for me to say as I'm not currently being shelled.
"Here's what we do to you if you aren't protected by firm alliances... now, agree not to form firm alliances..." 🧨🙁🔫
The demilitarisation and denazification has been dropped.
Yep, Putin's plan of remilitarization and renazification is well under way.
https://twitter.com/im_PULSE/status/1500217089595957252
The tankies got distracted with fantasies about NATO being neo-imperialist and missed what was right before their eyes.
https://twitter.com/im_PULSE/status/1500226892338798599
Minor point - I've read that it's to recognise DNR and LNR as Independent , not Russian.
Either way, it's unacceptable, and having seen Lukashenko's map which showed a planned 'liberation' of Transnistria, we can be sure it would just be Putin buying time to regroup, resupply and crack on.
But - it is an interesting climb down from what they were demanding about 3 days ago (regime change and demilitarisation of Ukraine...)
Is it really a climb down? Isn't splitting Ukraine into smaller controllable/manageable chunks the aim? I can't realistically see Ukraine coming out of this without being reduced in size, no matter how much we might want otherwise. I suspect the depressing conclusion in Ukraine will be that as well. Even though they know they won't get real peace if they agree, just a halt to current overt troop advances.
Is it really a climb down?
Yep. Putin's aim was to reduce Ukraine to a puppet of Russia like Belarus. Acknowledging Ukraine as a legitimate partner to negotiations is a climb down.
Isn’t splitting Ukraine into smaller controllable/manageable chunks the aim?
Yep. Putin isn't serious about negotiating a peace deal. If he can't destroy Ukraine, he wants to make it unviable.
Ok, maybe climbdown is overstating it. But still less rigid than the initial gambit.
Just saw another good point on Twitter. Russia is the 2nd largest arms exporter in the world. How many nations are going to be watching this, wondering if that's what they want for their army??
I think Zelenskyy will tell them where to stick their new demands.
I think he should agree to a referendum for the eastern regions but also for Crimea. I think at this point Putin would assume it would go his way but I think he'd be unpleasantly surprised.
Not sure who or how it could be overseen though.
Russia is the 2nd largest arms exporter in the world. How many nations are going to be watching this, wondering if that’s what they want for their army??
Yep. Chinese arms merchants will be out there right now promising to supply the same gear as the Russians but cheaper and with new tyres.
I think he should agree to a referendum for the eastern regions but also for Crimea.
Sounds nice. Unless a bunch of Ukrainians have fled the areas over the last few years and a bunch of Russians have moved in. So, sure, do a referendum of the people who lived there in 2014. Assume the ones who were killed by the Russian invasion voted for staying Ukrainian.
I’m thoroughly ashamed to be British at the moment.
I am very proud to be British, with the efforts made to raise funds and send supplies as part of the humanitarian effort.
I am thoroughly ashamed of the British government, but that’s been ongoing for most of the last 15 years or more.
Yet again, tarring an entire country with the same brush distorts the reality of the situation.
I didn't put it very well did I, you express it much more eloquently. I just find Boris and his cronies utterly shameful.
I think he should agree to a referendum
I've gone off referendums of late
It’s got to be a no. Anything else is a Russian win.....
This is very easy for me to say as I’m not currently being shelled.
I hate to agree,but this is probably the "right" answer, poor souls.
I’ve gone off referendums of late
Good point - can you imagine the level of Russian interference?!
you express it much more eloquently
I've been accused of a lot of things on here recently, but eloquence is a new one! 🤣
I just find Boris and his cronies utterly shameful
100%. Just be careful not mix up the the actions of the (awful) government with what the British people want. For an extreme example look at Russia and Putin. Even the limited support for Putin's actions is based on a heavily controlled narrative.
Just watch what you click on in the Wagner twitter thread, there's some pretty gruesome images of a beheaded Syrian deserter. Utter animals.
Just watch what you click on in the Wagner twitter thread, there’s some pretty gruesome images of a beheaded Syrian deserter. Utter animals.
Yes, apologies for that. I should have warned. I didn't get far before it got out of my comfort zone. Sorry.
I’m thoroughly ashamed to be British at the moment.
Being British, but mainly English has been toe-curlingly embarrassing for a good few years now, specifically since 24th June 2016.
But even by the standards of Brexit Britain it's absolutely shameful whats happening at the moment. There was an immigration lawyer on Radio 4 at lunchtime saying that the Home Office is completely unfit for purpose and despite Boris's bullshit words, they have approved a mere 1% of applications for Ukrainians trying to enter the UK.
I absolutely despise this cold-hearted, inhumane shower of ****s, but there is surely a special place in hell for Priti Patel, as the daughter of immigrants who came into this country under similar circumstances. Talk about pulling up the ladder behind yourself. An absolutely despicable human being!
Chinese arms merchants will be out there right now promising to supply the same gear as the Russians but cheaper and with new tyres.
I dunno about that. Those tyres which are falling to bits are apparently Chinese ones so I would be wanting some good evidence it was bad maintenance to blame.
I think he should agree to a referendum for the eastern regions but also for Crimea. I think at this point Putin would assume it would go his way but I think he’d be unpleasantly surprised.
Can you imagine the level of intimidation and even ethnic cleansing in these regions in the run-up to a vote? Would make the type of polite gerrymandering and voter suppression we see in the West look pretty mild.
Meet Dimitry Utkin
Not sure I want to see the rest of that Tinder profile.
Love that picture of Dmitry Utkin - you just wouldn't hire him as a babysitter.
As unpleasant as it is the fight has to continue until they either withdraw completely or Putin is toppled and then they withdraw completely
Spoken like a man safely behind his keyboard. I wonder if you’d feel differently if they were shelling your home?
I agree with your sentiment, but we need to be at least a little pragmatic here.
I know what I WANT to happen, but the Ukranian govt needs to work out what is best for them.
I feel any solution needs to be mediated with outside help.
Yes, apologies for that. I should have warned. I didn’t get far before it got out of my comfort zone. Sorry.
It's fine, I made the mistake of clicking a link assuming a story rather than actual video stills and trophy shots. They certainly have a different level of journalism.
Love that picture of Dmitry Utkin – you just wouldn’t hire him as a babysitter.
Doesnt he push trolleys for Simon Skinner?
Doesnt he push trolleys for Simon Skinner?
yarp
Spoken like a man safely behind his keyboard. I wonder if you’d feel differently if they were shelling your home?
Hence finishing with
This is very easy for me to say as I’m not currently being shelled.
It is very easy for us to come up with what we think is the 'right' answer but we are not in the emotionally charged position of having just lost loved one, or even 'just' our houses, and not in the position of being quite scared while being shot at, I expect those things would change our opinions somewhat.
Chris Bryant gives me hope.
Sadly 95% of U.K. population have never heard of him & have no idea what he does.😒
Sadly 95% of U.K. population have never heard of him & have no idea what he does.😒
Count me in that. What's he doing?
Upsetting John Terry apparently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Direct action happening in Dublin, as a truck full of communion supplies breached the gate of the Russian embassy.
https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1500841586237845517?s=21
BBC news are just showing the reality of the Home Offices ‘surge of staff’ to Calais to cope with the mass exodus of refugees across Europe
3 people, a box of ready salted crisps and some Kit Kat’s. The 3 people are there to tell them they can’t apply for visa’s there and need to go to Paris or Brussels to apply for one
What an utter and complete shitshow. Not that we should be remotely surprised with Priti Patel and Boris Johnson at the helm
https://twitter.com/carolinelucas/status/1500869400836161538?s=21
There are times I'm embarrassed to be a civil servant. 😕
That’s exactly what I expected “surging” to look like when Johnson used that word.
But let’s ignore that disingenuous waste of flesh, just for one evening, and listen to this girl instead…
https://twitter.com/ankita20200/status/1500496884255051776?s=21
There are times I’m embarrassed to be a civil servant. 😕
I think we all know where the blame lies
Absolute clowns, the lot of them!
McDonald's and Coca-Cola boycott calls grow over
Warning, some aspects of the report grow might make you blood pressure rise a little. Hospice staff and children forming the shape of a Z to support the war etc...
Why has 'Z' become a Russian pro-war symbol?
BBC news are just showing the reality of the Home Offices ‘surge of staff’ to Calais to cope with the mass exodus of refugees across Europe
3 people, a box of ready salted crisps and some Kit Kat’s. The 3 people are there to tell them they can’t apply for visa’s there and need to go to Paris or Brussels to apply for one
What an utter and complete shitshow. Not that we should be remotely surprised with Priti Patel and Boris Johnson at the helm
Oh god this is just horrible
3 people, a box of ready salted crisps and some Kit Kat’s. The 3 people are there to tell them they can’t apply for visa’s there and need to go to Paris or Brussels to apply for one
I can't watch it as I'll likely put my for through the tv.
WRT the UK's handling of refugees....
I had stroll past the Russian consulate in Munich this afternoon. Red paint and lots of eggs thrown at the gates. Surprisingly not much polizei presence, just two guys sitting in a T5.
The British Consulate is a few doors down from the Russian consulate.
They've the union jack alongside the Ukrainian flag out front. I stoiod there looking at it whilst shaking my head. Someone came out and asked if I needed help.
Told them it was a piss take that they're showing solidarity with Ukraine despite not letting any into the county, whilst giving the Russians who finds the tory party time to remove their cash from the UK.
I was asked to leave otherwise they would call the police.
Told them it was a piss take that they’re showing solidarity with Ukraine despite not letting any into the county, whilst giving the Russians who finds the tory party time to remove their cash from the UK.
I was asked to leave otherwise they would call the police.
Good work! 👍
Na ja.... I left. Have had enough trouble with the Polizei over the last few years. GF told me before I left the house this morning that she's not got the energy to deal with more stress.
Still, got a few ideas. If only I were an old fart with nothing to lose.
I believe MacDonalds operates in Russia through a Chechen-owned franchise which limits what they can do - allegedly.
As if Ukrainian refugees didn't have enough shit to deal with the UK gov are being deliberately obstructive and unhelpful; johnson, patel and the rest are scum.
@ dantsw13
Reports that Russian demands have softened in talks.
-change constitution to not allow EU or NATO membership
-recognise crimea and Eastern autonomous regions as Russian
From the start of war Putin's objective has always been a big chuck of Ukraine and anything more (whole if possible) will be a bonus. He will push as far as he can and to take whatever he gains.
The only way to start a "proper" negotiation for Ukraine now is to force a stalemate in order for Ukraine to have a chance in negotiation, but I am afraid Ukraine will still be losing some grounds.
At the moment the West/NATO/EU has nobody that Putin/China considers worthy of their ears. Analysts in the far east just consider Biden and Harris as incompetent (Harris would be a disaster and completely out of her depth in dealing with this situation according to them) and looking at EU they can't even think of anyone worthy of persuading Putin to reconsider. The French President (young chap according to them like the Canadian PM) is not even considered. Bear in mind, Putin is "old schooled" and anyone younger and less experience than him is not worthy of an audience.
The only chance to prevent further loss of Ukraine now is to fight for a stalemate and to prolong it as long as possible to drain Russia financial resources, which is still very strong as Russia is supported by their "pal" (financially) the factory of the world (you know who that is).
Our lives will be severely impacted the longer the war continues and as energy is impacted greatly, I am afraid the green agenda (carbon emission etc but I will still reduce plastic usage) needs to be realistic. The current situation if it sows the seed of WW3, then it means we need to shelf the green agenda to prepare the mother of all wars which I hope will not happen, but I have a feeling it will probably happen in 30 to 40 years time. (if they stop now then everyone will recoup their strength, learn from this experience and prepare for next round)
I believe McDonalds operates in Russia through a Chechen-owned franchise which limits what they can do – allegedly
That BBC article claims that, unusually for McD's, they retain ownership of the majority of the restaurants