https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/new/
Hi Dont post too much but I like this thread to keep me in the loop - I also use This sub quite a bit but fair warning - there can be some rather graphic videos here - generally labeled as such before you click
A mixture of first hand and in the country reporting along with external - as ever its the internet - take some with a pinch of salt
Hope its helpful - Slava Ukraine
The ONLY time we should have an influence on Russia is around nuclear security – they will have massive issues now maintaining not only missiles but ships and subs with nuclear on board. They have struggled for years to maintain and secure them, this now creates the opportunity for someone in Russian state or terrorists to make use of the weapons, and long term a huge environmental issue.
Think this is going to be a massive issue going forwards. The state of some of the Russian fleet already is worrying when you read articles about the likes of the Admiral Kuznetsvo (though that ain't a nuke power carrier) even before it went into service, let alone now.
Wagner commander deserts to Norway
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64296979
acc to his lawyer "Mr Risnes said his client left Wagner after witnessing war crimes in Ukraine, including seeing "deserters being executed" by the Wagner Group's internal security service.
^^ Was going to post that.
I imagine he has some horrific stories to tell.
they wouldn’t send Apaches anyways. Too long to train, too unreliable
And they'd last no longer than an other helicopters (including Russian attack helicopters) in the same environment. You can only operate helicopters like the Apache when you have air superiority over the airspace they operate in, and the Ukrainians certainly don't have that; otherwise they're just massively vulnerable targets, I doubt the MOD or DOD would appreciate pictures from Russians of smoking ruins in an Apache shaped hole in the ground.
Wagner commander deserts to Norway
This could be very interesting!
I know almost nothing about tanks - but found this seemingly single article suggesting challenger 1 ranks taken out of service by Jordan should be bought and sent instead of the 14 challenger 2’s we’re sending. Is there anything in that - or are these likely l to be run down / in a state of disrepair / lack of ammo and spare parts for them etc? I don’t know how they compare to Russian armour - seems like the Russians have a lot of kit older than the challenger 1 anyway…..
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/16/britain-sending-ukrainians-wrong-tanks/
Challenger 2 is more capable but given the choice of 400 Challenger 1s or 14 Challenger 2s I'd take the Challenger 1s (assuming they're not completely knackered).
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/4o6fiu/what_are_the_differences_between_the_challenger_1/
Haven't read the article, but I would imagine Jordan would rather sell their 400 Challenger 1's than give them away..........
We should sell Jordan a load of Challenger 2s. They could then sell a load of Challenger 1s to Ukraine.
They could be shipped via the uk , i know its 3 sides of a square. For them to be overhauled by Vickers or Babcock engineering or whoever has a maintenance contract.
Then everyone's a winner, except Putin.
With say 100 mbt in addition to all the liberated T72s eyc, plus a few dozen Leopards the UKAF wpuld be formidable. With decent logistics back up of course.
Probly more tanks than driver's, gunners, commanders though.
We should sell Jordan a load of Challenger 2s. They could then sell a load of Challenger 1s to Ukraine.
They could be shipped via the uk , i know its 3 sides of a square. For them to be overhauled by Vickers or Babcock engineering or whoever has a maintenance contract.
I guess you don’t work in logistics or planning? I expect Ukraine would prefer in-service Leopards fuelled and armed sometime next week.
Yeah, but having seen pictures of dozens of Russian tracked vehicles stuck fast, axle deep in mud last March and April i dont think there's a great rush.
Roads can be mined and pre targeted fpr mortars and artillery, so you have to go off road for safety, where its muddy.
And I appreciate it would take 4 years for the uk to coral, ship, transport, refurbish and deliver 100 serviceable challenger 1 tanks into Ukraine. Then another 3 years to rebuild 100 challenger 2s and get them to Jordan.
And that would probably involve the ISMC lending some boats capable of carrying more than 4 tanks at a time.
Such is the state of uk heavy manufacturing at the moment we don't have teams of engineers with the necessary skills to do the job available. Or the boats or the tank transports or the money or the willpower to achieve anything that will make a significant difference in a realistic time frame.
Which is a shame.
The police were called in to pacify the soldiers.
Wouldn't it make more sense to draft the police to the front line then?
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1615426859042471936
Such is the state of
ukheavy manufacturing
At various times few countries have had any worthwhile tank production.
Most MBTs were designed in the 1970s and have been upgraded rather then built from new.
In 2016 the US developed one Abrams per month using a few dozen workers and also see the more recent timeline on Leopard 2.
It isn't just the heavy manufacturing; materials change with every iteration, systems change and Challenger 3 will have UK armour, French sights, Italian night vision with German gun and suspension systems
Russia isn't any different, captured Russian tanks have also had French sights and fire control systems (as one example)
The difference is quality and that costs. Russia might make ten MBTs for the same cost as one western MBT and as an island nation, supported by NATO with no wish to annex our neighbours, we don't generally need the manufacturing. Until we do 🙂
An interesting thesis that goes beyond the “mad bad Vlad” narrative
See also:
https://jonathancook.substack.com/p/how-the-left-became-cheerleaders
The difference is quality and that costs. Russia might make ten MBTs for the same cost as one western MBT
Attributed to Stalin - “quantity has a quality all of its own”.
Quantity won’t do much for you, if you don’t know how to use it, see the the Russian invasion on the 24th of Feb 2022.
quantity has a quality all of its own
A logic that only really works when you can crank out T-34's by the thousand and have the logistics train to keep them in the fight.
French sights
from Glasgow
Italian night vision
also from Glasgow unless we’re not talking about the same thing
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/united-kingdom/news/rising-challenge
An interesting thesis that goes beyond the “mad bad Vlad” narrative
The review leans in the opposite direction with Vlad being sinned against by the perfidious West. (TBF this may be a feature of the review's length rather than bias by the authors, reviewer and book). It's difficult to know where the truth lies.
Bad news on senior ukr officials dying in a heli crash. surprised it hasn't happened sooner tbh
French sights
...from Glasgow
Italian night vision
...also from Glasgow unless we’re not talking about the same thing
I'm pleased that the UK is benefitting from this
Thales Board of directors, all well-known Glaswegians 🙂
Patrice Caine
Charles Edelstenne
Bernard Fontana
Delphine Gény-Stephann
Anne-Marie Hunot-Schmit
Philippe Knoche
Philippe Lépinay
Armelle de Madre
(The French Government, represented by) Emmanuel Moulin
Nadine Relier-David
Anne Rigail
Loïk Segalen
Anne-Claire Taittinger
Ann Taylor
Eric Trappier
Marie-Françoise Walbaum
I was thinking of the Leonardo (S.p.A. HQ in Rome) night vision system, but I guess that they've settled on Thales kit as well
That Christopher steele review raises some valid points but
This bit
Even today at this late stage, a declaration of Ukrainian non-alignment as part of an internationally negotiated settlement, and UN Security Council guarantees of that status, would bring instant de-escalation and make a lasting ceasefire possible in eastern Ukraine.
Stood out as bollox, putin has made it quite clear, this war is about capruring Ukraine, I'm amazed anyone still thinks that 'NATO made him do it' is still any sort of justification
Stood out as bollox, putin has made it quite clear, this war is about capruring Ukraine, I’m amazed anyone still thinks that ‘NATO made him do it’ is still any sort of justification
Exactly
He’s written a lot of articles criticising the west re Ukraine, very little aimed at the country that actually invaded.
He’s written a lot of articles criticising the west re Ukraine, very little aimed at the country that actually invaded.
Quite. It amazes me that anyone is able to see any grey area in this situation.
When propaganda is done badly
https://twitter.com/RusEmbSwe/status/1615391927242719244?t=RU4eVhgebelcEL_rzIPB9Q&s=19
(I did check the accounts label in Twitter)
ha ha from that thread
I saw that bit of the map ^ and thought exactly the same thing 😄
So wait, we should want to live in Russia because the petrol is cheaper? Wow that's a great incentive. I bet property's pretty cheap as well.
Life is cheap too 👎
Even today at this late stage, a declaration of Ukrainian non-alignment as part of an internationally negotiated settlement, and UN Security Council guarantees of that status, would bring instant de-escalation and make a lasting ceasefire possible in eastern Ukraine.
It would not. This is just a rehash of Russian misinformation that has been going around since the war started. Why does anyone still take this nonsense seriously?
Thales Board of directors, all well-known Glaswegians
Yes its well know man that Thales is French. However the optical systems will be designed and built in the U.K. by a host of skilled U.K. personnel and suppliers. If you want to call that kit French then that’s up to you
Yes its well know man that Thales is French. However the optical systems will be designed and built in the U.K. by a host of skilled U.K. personnel and suppliers.
I'm as proud as you that the contract is in the UK
If you want to call that kit French then that’s up to you
Semantics. It grieves me that pioneering companies such as Barr and Stroud have changed in the way that they have, but I'm a dinosaur and that's a thread for another day 🙂
Politico.com reports that the unconfirmed US security package for Ukraine (~$2.5bn) will include Bradley and Stryker vehicles and the Saab-Boeing GLSDB that we discussed in November.
ATACMS and Abrams won't be included
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/18/major-military-package-ukraine-russia-00078331
Our boy from the village, Fynn Watt, has been busy.
Interviewed by John Pinaar on Times radio last week, now getting the latest batch of donated 4x4’s as well as another ambulance and a van or two. Eight vehicles in this convoy currently being worked on to get them ready for delivery in Feb.
They are all used as medevac vehicles to join the ones already sent, saving lives Far East and front line. They get camo sprayed out there as the ambulance colours attract enemy fire, medics are a favourite of the sniper apparently. One of the earlier transits sent has a bullet hole in the windscreen as if to prove a point.
They get camo sprayed out there as the ambulance colours attract enemy fire, medics are a favourite of the sniper apparently
Nice
Allegedly (from a pro Ukrainian source) the Russians use/have used Ambulances to avoid enemy fire and just assume everyone else does so theyre legitimate targets.
Another crime to add to the list. Assuming the people responsible are ever brought to justice.
Germany isn’t covering itself in glory over the supply of leopards.
Ok, if you don’t want to send yours, but refusing to allow others to send theirs??? I can’t decide if it’s just too many German business interests in Russia or a hangover from WW2.
Bulgaria secretly helped Ukraine out at the start of the war despite a massive dependence on Russian energy and Russian sympathisers in their government: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/18/bulgaria-secretly-supplied-ukraine-fuel-ammunition-first-months-war-russia
Shame on Germany 🤷♂️👎
Joint Statement – The Tallinn Pledge
We the Defence Ministers of Estonia, the United Kingdom, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania; and the representatives of Denmark, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, and Slovakia met today, 19 January, to reaffirm our continued determination and resolve to supporting Ukraine in their heroic resistance against the illegal and unprovoked Russian aggression. We condemn Russia’s attacks designed to terrorise Ukraine’s people, including intentional attacks against the civilian population and civilian infrastructure which may constitute war crimes. We reject Russia’s ongoing violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity, and its illegal claims to have annexed Ukrainian territory.
We recognise that equipping Ukraine to push Russia out of its territory is as important as equipping them to defend what they already have. Together we will continue supporting Ukraine to move from resisting to expelling Russian forces from Ukrainian soil. By bringing together Allies and partners, we are ensuring the surge of global military support is as strategic and coordinated as possible. The new level of required combat power is only achieved by combinations of main battle tank squadrons, beneath air and missile defence, operating alongside divisional artillery groups, and further deep precision fires enabling targeting of Russian logistics and command nodes in occupied territory.
Therefore, we commit to collectively pursuing delivery of an unprecedented set of donations including main battle tanks, heavy artillery, air defence, ammunition, and infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine’s defence. This substantial assistance to Ukraine comes from our own national stocks, and resources illustrating the mutual understanding of the severity of the situation and our commitment to urgently increase and accelerate support for Ukraine. Having made this “Tallinn Pledge”, we shall head to the Ukraine Defence Group meeting in Ramstein tomorrow 20 January and urge other Allies and partners to follow suit and contribute their own planned packages of support as soon as possible to ensure a Ukrainian battlefield victory in 2023.
Donations list per country
- Denmark: Denmark is continuing military and civil support to Ukraine. Denmark will also continue to provide training of Ukrainian forces, including but not limited to the UK-led programme of training for Ukrainian recruits. Denmark has donated or financed military aid for close to 600 million euros. Weapons donations and military support will continue in close cooperation with allies, and in accordance with Ukrainian needs.
- The Czech Republic: The Czech Republic will continue its support to Ukraine via delivery of military material, always in close cooperation with our partners and reflecting the Ukrainian needs. We are working with our defence industry to increase their production capacities in order to provide even more support, especially in terms of producing large calibre ammunition, howitzers and APCs. A key component of our contribution will be maintenance of the already delivered equipment and increased MRO capacity.
- Estonia: The Estonian package consists of tens of 155mm FH-70 and 122mm D-30 howitzers, thousands of rounds of 155mm artillery ammunition, support vehicles for artillery units, hundreds of Carl-Gustaf M2 anti-tank grenade launchers with ammunition with the total replacement values of approx. 113 million euros. In addition, Estonia will continue to provide both basic and specialist training to hundreds of Ukrainian Armed Forces members in 2023.
- Latvia: Latvia is preparing new donations with additional tens of man-portable air-defence systems (Stinger) and additional air-defence elements, two M-17 helicopters, tens of machine guns with ammunition, several tens of UAVs and spare parts for M109 howitzers. Latvia is also hugely investing in the training of Ukrainian soldiers. In 2023 Latvia is planning to train around 2000 Ukrainian soldiers in various programmes starting from basic infantry training to specialized courses.
- Lithuania: the new Lithuanian lethal support package consists of dozens of L-70 anti-aircraft guns with tens of thousands of ammunition, and two Mi-8 helicopters with the total replacement value of approx. of 85 million euros. Still this year, we will invest 40 million euros for procurements in support of Ukrainian military. This will include anti-drones, optics, thermo-visual devices and drones. Also, 2 million euros will be transferred to the UK International Fund for financing the heavy weaponry acquisitions projects such as artillery systems and ammunition, direct fire platforms or armoured fighting vehicles. The total value of Lithuanian upcoming lethal support package is 125 million euros.
- Poland: Poland will continue to provide military and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine as long as necessary. The new Polish package consists of S-60 anti-aircraft guns with 70,000 pieces of ammunition. Poland already donated 42 Infantry Fighting Vehicles along with training packages for two mechanized battalions. In addition, Poland continues delivery of 155mm KRAB howitzers and supplying UKR with various types of ammunition. Medical and engineering training is also constantly provided. On top of that, Poland is ready to donate a company of Leopard 2 tanks with 1000 pieces of ammunition. Pending this, a wider coalition of Leopard 2 tanks donors will be established.
- Slovakia: In addition to the heavy equipment already donated, Slovakia will continue intensive discussions with Allies on the possibilities of unlocking further equipment for donations to Ukraine. The effort currently focuses on possibilities related to main battle tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, air defence systems, but also increased production of howitzers, demining equipment and ammunition. Concrete details will be developed in due time based on continued exchanges with Allies and partners. Slovakia will continue to train Ukrainian soldiers and expand the training as required by Ukraine.
- United Kingdom: The United Kingdom’s accelerated package consists of a squadron of Challenger 2 tanks with armoured recovery and repair vehicles; AS90 self-propelled 155mm guns, while preserving their commitment in Estonia; hundreds more armoured and protected vehicles; a manoeuvre support package, including minefield breaching and bridging capabilities; dozens more un-crewed aerial systems to support Ukrainian artillery; another 100,000 artillery rounds; hundreds more sophisticated missiles including GMLRS rockets, Starstreak air defence missiles, and medium range air defence missiles; 600 Brimstone anti-tank munitions; an equipment support package of spares to refurbish up to a hundred Ukrainian tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. The package is further augmented by continuing basic training and junior leadership training for the AFU in the UK with 9 International partners. With the aim of training around a further 20 000 AFU personnel in 2023. The UK is also coordinating the International Fund for Ukraine which has raised almost £600M with partners. The first package of support from the fund will be announced shortly.
The Ramstein meeting's going to be interesting - will the US, Germany and France join in?
The often shared O'Brien is going with this
https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1616160409601327124?t=o4rKNzEPAsQJIV6zPXesKg&s=19
