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The convoy is reported to have embedded logistical supports so that's bad news.
When will the munitions and weaponry promised by EU/NATO/US/UK get to Ukraine?
How long will it then take to move them to where they're most needed?
As I said earlier theres reports of the Ukrainians blowing the bridges across the Dniepr, so that suggests we may be approaching last ditch actions. Having said that urban fighting as already pointed out is notoriously difficult so it might not be over all that quickly. Who knows. I for one am rooting for the Ukrainians though.
**** me there’s a 17 miles long Russian armoured convoy heading for Kyiv. That’s got to be the end of it, hasn’t it?!?
This has been building for some time. If the Ukrainians had the ability to do anything about this, then I can't see why they wouldn't have.
For anyone who needs a little cheering up right now… This is just brilliant!
As well as being the Ukrainian voice of Paddington Bear, he also won their version of Strictly come Dancing back in 2006 too…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xKFSK_9e-g4
This is really interesting. He seems to know what he is talking about and he doesn't think the Russian advance is going as badly as is being portrayed on social media
**** me there’s a 17 miles long Russian armoured convoy heading for Kyiv. That’s got to be the end of it, hasn’t it?!?
What is it with this continual convoy/column theory from Russia…? Have they not seen the mess that was made of the Chechens yesterday?
Saw it posted somewhere earlier… With a convoy all you have to do is take out the first 3 vehicles and the last 3, then everyone in the middle is sitting ducks! 🤦🏻♂️
Have they not seen the mess that was made of the Chechens yesterday
Was that independently verified?
At this time of year they have to stick to the roads or they’ll get bogged down. Also seen some speculation that Russian forces were not issued with maps/ gps as speed of advance meant they wouldn’t need them. Again not sure of truth of this.
As above if the Ukrainians could have hit them earlier I’m surprised they haven’t. Plus Russian Air Force now supposed to be showing up in much greater numbers.
I've a feeling this is about to turn into something more like what people expected that force on the border to achieve, i.e. the place's about to start getting flattened. I expect the convoy will be well-defended.
The Spectator now saying Russia declared that countries sending stuff to Ukraine will be responsible if used against Russian forces.
Was that independently verified?
Feel free to go and verify it for yourself by all means...
There's a number of people on this thread that have already independently verified that you're a bit of a dick though, it would seem... I am yet to be convinced by the overwhelming evidence myself though, if that matters...? 🤷🏻♂️
Anyone been reading the google reviews of Moscow hotels?
Russia declared that countries sending stuff to Ukraine will be responsible if used against Russian forces.
I did wonder whether this would be Russia's response, especially after saying that any involvement from 3rd parties would be punished.
Zelenskyy. the comedy clown who became a statesman, and we have Boris, the wannabe statesman who is just a clown.
I agree with that, however (and correct me if I am wrong) there are competitors for much of that stuff already in the rest of the world, so it would be relatively easy to get our higher tech elsewhere.
mols - if only that were the case I think the west would have looked to scale up; I also stand to be corrected.
mboy, your assertion...
Hitler largely funded his war effort with stolen art and treasures from various sources don’t forget… And when things were going sour at the end, he ordered as much of it to be destroyed as possible rather than falling back into allied hands!
Is not supported by any facts that I'm aware of - and I've been informing myself about WW1 and 2 for 40 years.
What's your source?
Russia declared that countries sending stuff to Ukraine will be responsible if used against Russian forces.
But what can he do, threaten to nuke only these countries? That doesn't work.
Cyber attacks, certainly but he'll be doing that anyway, whether a county supplies arms or not. I'm worried for the NHS systems in this instance.
Cut gas supplies? Possible but it'll screw him over just as much and likely more than it will Europe.
Bio/ chem attack on Europe? Might as well launch nukes as NATO will act.
Putin is in serous danger of giving the West "threat fatigue".
After you play the nuke card, not much else seems that threatening really...
Satellite imagery company Maxar Technology says that earlier reports indicating the column of Russian armour advancing on Kyiv is 17 miles (27km) long are inaccurate.
The convoy actually stretches about 40 miles, according to Maxar.
The company added that new images also show ground troops and attack helicopters in southern Belarus, less than 20 miles from the Ukraine border.
Doesnt sound good for Kyiv
Russian arms supply half of the worlds armies , especially the dodgy ones!
Going to be a tough 24 hours for Kyiv but they have spread the government officials across the country in order to coordinate the inevitable insurgency.
Cut off one head...
But what can he do
Threaten to drag them into a war
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban reiterated that his government would do everything to stay out of the war in Ukraine and would therefore not send any weapons or military equipment to its eastern neighbour.
https://kafkadesk.org/2022/02/28/hungary-wont-send-weapons-to-ukraine-orban-says/
Although apart from that as a rightwing authoritarian nationalist Viktor Orban quite admires the rightwing authoritarian nationalist in Moscow.
Remember Fiona Hill?
British born, US based long time Putin watcher and acknowledged expert on Russia who testified in trump's first impeachment.
Her thoughts on Putin in a Q&A with Politico...
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340
Her experience and credentials?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Hill_(presidential_advisor)
ernielynch
Free Member
But what can he doThreaten to drag them into a war
The US
UK
Sweden
Finland
Germany
Netherlands
...even Australia
Others I can't even remember (oh, Canada I think, Belgium, Estonia...)
It might be a bit difficult given he hasn't been able when fuel all his armour only a few miles from Russia.
Like I said, one you threaten nukes, where do you go?
Reuters is saying the convoy is 40miles long.
I'm getting more and more of a dreaded feeling this war has barely even started yet tbh. Talk of no fly zones and calculating if Putin would contain the war to Ukraine on the news, and discussions/public opinion to come were pretty chilling to listen to on Newsnight tbh.
Like I said, one you threaten nukes, where do you go?
You really think that Russia can't threaten any country now with being dragged into the war because they have apparently threatened to use nuclear weapons? Fairy nuff
You really think that Russia can’t threaten any country now with being dragged into the war because they have apparently threatened to use nuclear weapons? Fairy nuff
Of course he can threaten, I'm asking what he can realistically do?
Take the nuke threat. His ultimate threat. His mother of all threats.
Putin can't bring himself to sit within 10 metres of his own advisors for fear of catching Covid (he won't wear a mask as that would be viewed as a weakness in his eyes. He wrestles bears to wind down at the weekends...) yet he'll launch nukes that will also end his own life?
Nah.
When my son was 7 he threatened to "go to Australia" because I said he had to do his homework.
I wasn't too concerned to be honest.
Poopscoop
Of course he can threaten, I’m asking what he can realistically do?
Take the nuke threat. His ultimate threat. His mother of all threats.
Putin can’t bring himself to sit within 10 metres of his own advisors for fear of catching Covid (he won’t wear a mask as that would be viewed as a weakness in his eyes. He wrestles bears to wind down at the weekends…) yet he’ll launch nukes that will also end his own life?
Nah.
When my son was 7 he threatened to “go to Australia” because I said he had to do his homework.
Like I said, one you threaten nukes, where do you go?
Erm, see that public opinion bit I'm worried about...
Remember Fiona Hill?
Good read, but worrying.
On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 being blissed out utter joy through to 10 being sheer terror muscle spasm rigor mortis I’d place myself at a 4 to 5 at the moment, but the longer this is allowed to carry on with no genuine Kremlin counsel to disagree or dissuade him from continuing his descent into psychopathy then it’s anyones guess as to how he’ll react. Unless there’s a Kremlin coup/intervention/bullet in the head scenario then I can’t see putin backing down, not this time as he’s staked so much on remodelling the Russian state to fit his political and megalomaniac needs.
This is going to be a long war if armour convoys continue to arrive. If Katyusha rocket vehicles are amongst them then he his intention is to "flatten" citieis/terrorise people. We have not witnessed the use of advanced weapons yet, which I guess must be reserved for western forces. Now Russia will have a good excuse to station a large force near EU boarder that can strike at any time. You can now imagine the build up will increase in future as they are not going to pull back once stationed. EU/West really needs to increase their defense asap otherwise it will be too late.
I fear Kviv is about to be obliterated, regardless of whether Putin takes it or not. He's switching to the mentality of ' If I can't have it neither can you!".
Properly scary.
Ukraine will be fine. Russia is not pounding it
russia has no business being in the Ukraine. Seems the russians have elected Hitler to lead them. How ironic.
sree251
Free Member
Ukraine will be fine. Russia is not pounding it the way Yugoslavia was bombed by NATO.
Brand new poster alert.
*shitposter
Brand new poster alert.
That completely ignores that Putin invaded before any EU or NATO action was started and that the EU and NATO have both been initially reluctant to get involved.
Ignore.
🥱🥱🥱
… To the one above the one above
Looks like sree has just joined us...they also made a valuable contribution to the nazi thread which sounds like they don't think the knuckle dragging lunatics are a problem.
Welcome to the forum.
Is this our first confirmed communist? Sorry bud, no impressive spires to visit around here.
I do wonder which member he actually is though, the new troll?
Let's face it, it's a current member using a second account isn't it.😉
Has anyone read anything regarding the outcome of the talks in Belarus? I’m not expecting anything much, but aside from “more talks in coming days” I’ve seen nothing.
^^ Nothing positive other than talks will continue. One Ukrainian MP mentioned that rockets/shelling actually increased after the talks ended...
Classic Putin.
Ukraine now preparing for an insurgency as Putin is obviously going to just hanger the cities info submission. The human body is going to be horrific.
I do wonder which member he actually is though, the new troll?
Let’s face it, it’s a current member using a second account isn’t it.😉
It might be Dianne Abbott?
Anyway… The Guardian are reporting a 40 mile long convoy of Russian vehicles heading for Kyiv. They’re not on their way to deliver humanitarian aid, are they?
https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1498502171851173889?s=21
I fear we’re about to see something truly medieval in its barbarity. I hope I’m wrong. Those poor people about to find themselves on the receiving and of all that. And for what? To shore up the delicate ego of a fascist madman?
I do wonder which member he actually is though, the new troll?
Let’s face it, it’s a current member using a second account isn’t it.😉
It might be Dianne Abbott or Jeremy Corbyn? They’re about the only people still banging this ‘NATO aggression’ drum, aren’t they?
Anyway… The Guardian are reporting a 40 mile long convoy of Russian military vehicles heading for Kyiv. They’re not on their way to deliver humanitarian aid, are they?
https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1498502171851173889?s=21
I fear we’re about to see something truly medieval in its barbarity. I hope to god I’m wrong. Those poor people about to find themselves on the receiving and of all that. And for what? To shore up the delicate little ego of a fascist madman?
If the Ukranians still have planes and drones, as we are led to believe, why is there a 40 mile military traffic jam slowly advancing unscathed?
Either things aren't going as well as we've been led to believe, or they have a cunning plan...
China are moving their citizens to Moldova apparently.
If the Ukranians still have planes and drones, as we are led to believe, why is there a 40 mile military traffic jam slowly advancing unscathed?Either things aren’t going as well as we’ve been led to believe, or they have a cunning plan…
I doubt they're able to hit it any more and the invasion is starting to move into a new phase. I've obviously no real idea. But you would think lessons are being learnt by the invasion force as to what is opposing them.
China are moving their citizens to Moldova apparently.
Do you mean evacuating their citizens out of Ukraine and into Moldova?
I think Ukraine is working towards having Russia kicked off the UN Security Council with this. Russia just took over the USSR seat, but there was never a vote to actually make Russia a UN member or SC member, apparently.
https://twitter.com/NYBackpacker/status/1498328163188977666
Gosh we are honoured - we have our very own Trollski!! 😂
@Binners I think sadly you are right. I don’t know about Mediaeval - mid 20th C will be bad enough..
Gosh we are honoured – we have our very own Trollski!! 😂
Is the next stage breaking out fancy bears just for little old STW?
Battle of Grozny is worth reading up on. A lot of similarities including Russia’s initial overconfidence. Civilian casualties there were very high.
Do you mean evacuating their citizens out of Ukraine and into Moldova?
That’s probably a better way of putting it
I wonder how Ukrainians successful defense over the last few days will force the RF to adapt their tactics. There may be a change from "a big enough army to look good on the telly, but not big enough to achieve much" to rolling in the 2nd and 3rd waves. If there's a 40 mile convoy rolling towards Kyiv, they must at least think it's safe enough from Ukrainian air defenses.
Urban fighting in a city the size of Kyiv or Kharkiv is going to be horrific.
Also I have to say, the idea that China and Russia are best of buddies and haven't in fact come to brink of exchanging nuclear missiles more a couple of times over the last few decades, is a fun one.
If there’s a 40 mile convoy rolling towards Kyiv,
consensus elsewhere is its was poorly translated and its 4 mile convoy 40 miles away. none the less there seems a never ending line of convoys available
Unfortunately I honestly can't see now how this can end in a way other than the fall or surrender of the Ukraine, without direct Western intervention. It seems that Putin now has sufficient control to pretty much reduce Ukranian action to urban defence. Surrounding cities and pulverising them into submission looks like it will be effective, and there's not going to be any response to that other than surrender, leading to Putin being able to pretty much have whatever he wants of the country.
And once it's over, how will the world unwind all this? Russia may withdraw, leaving a new government in place, so will the West still want to pay for reconstruction? Will refugees return? Will families be permitted to reunite, or will there be a new iron curtain? And how will we re-integrate Russia into the world after all the action and condemnation of the last few days? It's obviously not possible to keep the sanctions in force for ever- the world is far different to the 1940's and 50's- so at some stage we are going to have to back down- and Putin will never apologise, so another win for him.
I thought the Ukrainians were being re-equipped with aircraft from the EU today - that might explain the lack of air strikes on the convoy. Does anyone know how close to Kyiv that convoy is? Are logistics still a problem for the Russians?
I think that bridges into Kyiv have been blown up, so that convoy (no matter the length) is looking at a) having few route choices and b) bunching up again.
Ideal for some form of ambush, at
location(s) the Ukrainian's choose.
Whichever way it is, we've a really horrific next phase starting it seems. 😢 🇺🇦
Unless I missed it in here, Taiwan are sending aid!
https://twitter.com/MOFA_Taiwan/status/1498453937653161986?s=20&t=DdGQzkHTcMxaL-5YHPL7aw
Watching Putin's somewhat unhinged ranting on the telly yesterday, first thing that struck me was that his facial appearance suggests he could be on high-dose steroids. Being seriously immuno-suppressed could explain why he is sat at one end of the longest table of the world.
Perhaps there's a redemption arc for Covid in here somewhere.
Apologies if the wrong place or thing to do, but watching BBC breakfast and the items on UK govt and restrictions on Ukrainian, and other refugees fleeing Ukraine, entering UK really wound me up. (If this is out of order Mods please remove post. Thanks)
Fast track: Petition Parliament
Waive Visa: Petition Parliament
I thought the Ukrainians were being re-equipped with aircraft from the EU today – that might explain the lack of air strikes on the convoy. Does anyone know how close to Kyiv that convoy is? Are logistics still a problem for the Russians
Last night it was 17 miles, and they haven't been moving at night. So, within striking distance today 🙁
I'm no military expert, but apparently it took US forces- even with all their shock and awe- 3 weeks to reach Baghdad, not that I thought that was a good idea but it gives you an idea of timelines
Even during the Blitzkrieg in WW2 it took a couple of months to subdue the lowlands and France. This is what, day 6? I massively support Ukraine but trying to think rationally it seem like itvis very early days still
Can someone explain how NATO is meant to be the aggressor here? Didn't people just apply to join?
The more plausible angle would be to argue that Ukraine didn't honour the Minsk terms from a quick skim of the wiki page.
martinhutch - see my link to Politico on pg59.
Of course he can threaten, I’m asking what he can realistically do?
How about missile strikes on European cities outside Ukraine?
Or do you believe Putin could never do something as terrible as that?
Can someone explain how NATO is meant to be the aggressor here?
'The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears etc.'
It's just a narrative for the population at home, and more credulous types abroad.
It doesn't matter, it's just Putin's narrative. One of distraction, confusion, lies, etc
martinhutch – see my link to Politico on pg59.
Ah, yes, didn't think it would escape the attention of other Putin-watchers. He just looks rough.
Hill: It’s old for Russians. And Putin’s not looking so great, he’s been rather puffy-faced. We know that he has complained about having back issues. Even if it’s not something worse than that, it could be that he’s taking high doses of steroids, or there may be something else. There seems to be an urgency for this that may be also driven by personal factors.
I'm not sure how many operational TB-2 drones the Ukranian's have but they're not ideal for wiping out a large convoy and I'd expect it's extremely well protected by AA so a jet likely wouldn't fair too well either.
If Poland really is allowing Ukrainian jets (at least the couple donated by Bulgaria) to operate from one of it's air bases that's going to escalate things pretty quickly...
And strategy-wise although the quick decapitation Putin had hoped for thankfully hasn't happened it does sadly mean he'll likely switch to a much more attritional strategy, which is why the heavy artillery etc. is moving in. Even if Kyiv falls though I can't see the Ukranian government surrendering.
Just ban them, it's our forum, not a political show on the BBC, we don't require a 'balanced' viewpoint.
Can someone explain how NATO is meant to be the aggressor here?
They're capitalist imperialists who destroyed the workers paradise that was the USSR. Resurrecting the Russian Empire is the only way to defeat the imperialists.
Russia has been claiming that there was an agreement that NATO would not expand, even though no formal agreement was ever made or signed. Russia just assumed that the former Soviet and Warsaw pact countries would stick together in a Russian dominated eastern bloc. Those countries all hated Russia, having been invaded and occupied for decades (or centuries, or whatever) and immediately set about joining the EU and NATO to protect them from any further Russian dominance. Russia took this very badly, blamed NATO, and has been nursing grievances ever since. Strangely, the current "liberation" of Ukraine seems to have convinced all of Russia's neighbors that chancing their luck with the EU and NATO was a good call.
I agree with the banning of obvious trolls, we don’t need propaganda, but I do think it’s important we do keep some balance. And we do have some good alternative viewpoints from regular posters on here which is good.
More weasel words from raab in various media interviews this morning.
Nothing to offer in terms of what is being done to bring immediate relief to Ukraine.
No coherent response re Ukrainian refugees but criticism of Yvette Cooper.
Words of praise for Ukrainian people and gov have little value; more action is needed now.
We'll push for war crimes prosecutions; yeah right - that's after the event, getting putin and others into the dock is fantasy; trial and sentence in absentia so that's for show.
How about missile strikes on European cities outside Ukraine? Or do you believe Putin could never do something as terrible as that?
Given that even he surely can't be blind to effect he's had on world opinion and the isolation of Russia by the rest of the world over the last few days, to even conceive that this would be a winning bet he could pull off. He would (by launching a strike onto a European capital or target) lay Russia open to far more devastating retaliatory attacks.
binners Full Member
It might be Dianne Abbott or Jeremy Corbyn? They’re about the only people still banging this ‘NATO aggression’ drum, aren’t they?
With your total and relentless obsession with Corbyn it's trolling nonsense like that that makes it so difficult to have a sensible discussion about a serious issue binners.
Any opportunity to score a cheap point against the left can't be missed, you do it with the same glee and hypocrisy as a Tory minister.
Whilst you ignore the fact that Putin has enjoyed widespread support from right-wing politicians across the world. From Donald Trump to the current Brazilian president, from the Hungarian Prime Minister to the politicians of the Italian Northern League and French presidential candidates. And that his oligarch stooges bankroll the Tories in the UK.
@ernielynch - you're often equally as guilty
Let's stick to Ukraine and you two can have a squabble elsewhere
https://twitter.com/financialtimes/status/1498314627540738051?s=21
FT reporting that Putins propaganda channels are struggling to control the message