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Ukraine

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Growing thoughts that they are conscripts, the unit wearing white bands are regular volunteer enlisted troops, so might explain why certain troops/units are deciding against fighting.

from the Russian war with Afghanistan, early on they used units of conscripts which hailed from rural southern USSR (probably now Kazakstan region) supposedly for their familiarity with the terrain and conditions.
High levels of desertion from those men who realised they had far more in common with the Afghans than Moscow. Will we see the same here?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:00 pm
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When people, the Russians included, see Russian tanks crushing civilians on the street the tide will turn against Putin.

Not for the faint hearted.

Armoured tank crushes civilian car in Kyiv, Ukraine. https://imgur.com/gallery/CArbDwS

The guy survived....
Car driver survives being crushed by armoured tank in Kyiv, Ukraine. https://imgur.com/gallery/PIcrQ0z

Mate of miner's missus is from Ukraine, living in Germany. On Monday there was talk of her getting her family over to Germany. Now they're bearing arms. Her old man is an officer in the reserves and has been sent to Kiev. Her brother was stopped on his way to Poland, turned back and told to fight.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:03 pm
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There's a video of a young girl getting hit by a missile while riding her bike. There's a picture somewhere of a missile that didn't detonate sticking out of the road. Brutal, bloody and clearly targeting the civilian population.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:07 pm
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I'm normally not emotional, but this is affecting me alot. I have no links to Ukraine but I'm finding the violence and suffering one man can inflict on millions hard to comprehend. I know that there are many reasons as to why the west can't physically intervene but how can the modern world watch this happen. Sanctions won't stop the short term slaughter and suffering.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:20 pm
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I can’t help wondering where our Trident fleet is positioned at the moment.

2/3s of it will be in Faslane, the other one will be somewhere in the arctic

Pretty horrible thinking of folk fighting for their lives over there. I think Zelezny (sp.) has no choice but to seek terms. Putin wins, again. Bastard.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:26 pm
 PJay
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I’m normally not emotional, but this is affecting me alot.

Me too but is there anything we can meaningfully do to help (products to boycott, donations etc.)?

I've been pretty disappointed by NATO, and specifically America's response.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:27 pm
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I’m normally not emotional, but this is affecting me alot.

Likewise. It's making me really angry, frustrated that I don't know what to do/how to help. Massive civilian mobilisation?  What would Vlad do if a few million angry people turned up from all over Europe?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:32 pm
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What happens when they reach the Moldovan border?

(And same concern for Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania, although they would require (I would expect) success for Putin in Ukraine first.)


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:37 pm
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There's not much we can do, sanctions and hope that those around Putin that have done well from him find him now a hindrance. It's our own fault, decades of our leaders palling up to him because he's loads of gas and oil. There's talk of Russia building up troops on the Polish boarder but I'm not sure this is real or meant for Russian consumption to put the pressure on those around Putin to wonder if he's going to get them into WWIII before they can spend their oil and gas billions.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:38 pm
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I can’t help wondering where our Trident fleet is positioned at the moment.

One is in Plymouth, having just completed a Life Extension refurbishment, 2 are in/around Faselane and the one on deployment will be where they usually hang out- under the arctic ice shelf..


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:38 pm
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At what point do morals, ethics and human compassion override the current NATO/West 'on the ground' inactivity. When a 1000, 100,000 or a million innocent Ukrainians are slaughtered?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:42 pm
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I mean, it's the threat of nuclear war that scares me most of all, and I would think any direct NATO involvement would push the conflict into that realm.

I'm struggling to see how we can be (partly) to blame for this. Surely it doesn't matter that we buy his oil and gas? If he always wanted to old gang back, he would do it anyway?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:45 pm
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Probably the same threshold they leave the room when NATO troops start returning to their home nations in flag-draped caskets?

Very easy to call for intervention when you're very unlikely to have to bear a personal cost for it, and most likely not long after spend time roasting those who made the decision to deploy. Society is as such today that any action/inaction is crucified, and we wonder why we have a class of leaders that are beyond making any tough decisions unless the odds are stacked 99% in their favour or benefit them and them alone.

Especially after the shitshow that was the middle eastern jollies.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:46 pm
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I just hope that Russian soldiers realise what they are doing to satisfy the whim of a madman is wrong.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:54 pm
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Sadly some might be fully invested in this, others less so. I imagine the Russian military is governed by a fair degree of fear of speaking out with a very real and present threat of terminal consequences or persecution of families if they 'betray' their country.

I sadly don't think you're going to see it if I'm honest.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:57 pm
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@teenrat it’s hard to know how to make a difference but I’d say one way is to support organisations like Bellingcat. Their investigations are increasingly being used by the ICC as a reliable source of verified and verifiable information.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 2:59 pm
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Second that. They're a group of pretty talented individuals. And as far as OSINT goes, you can have a high degree of trust in their work, there's a lot of charlatans, pretenders and war-whores out there who simply repeat or pump out crap.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 3:01 pm
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I am not sure I agree that NATO is a defensive organisation. 

Really? I must have missed the NATO invasion of... Where has NATO invaded, again?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 3:16 pm
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Afghanistan.
The only time article 5 has ever been triggered was in response to an attack on the US
.
Other actions, the two Gulf Wars, Libya, Yugoslavia, etc involved NATO countries but weren't NATO actions


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 3:21 pm
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Also - NATO wasn’t involved in Iraq


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 3:24 pm
 dazh
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I’m struggling to see how we can be (partly) to blame for this.

See my earlier post about allowing oligarchs to acquire unhealthy amounts of wealth and power. For the past 30 years the power of oligarchs and billionaires has been allowed to grow far beyond what it ever was before. What the hell do we expect when individuals have so much wealth and power that they can't be challenged? Do we think they're just going to sit back and enjoy their wealth by sunbathing on a yacht in the bahamas? Putin isn't an accident, he's the result of a corrupt global system which enshrines the privelege of a tiny elite.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 3:29 pm
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Lithuania and Poland both wrap around Kaliningrad, is it quiet there or stuff happening too?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 3:44 pm
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Really? I must have missed the NATO invasion of… Where has NATO invaded, again?

Erm, Afghanistan?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 3:53 pm
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Visa is blocking Russian issued cards now, presumably because Russia may get kicked out of SWIFT and the card transactions then not be able to be settled. Tough luck if you happen to be a normal Russian student or tourist overseas.

My daughter's best friends with a pair of twins born in England of Russian parents. She was trying to get their Russian dual citizenship revoked so that they won't have to do national service when they turn 18. I hope she succeeds.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:00 pm
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Might want to have an objective read of history there bud.

The US and UK invaded afghanistan after 9/11, with no mandate and were not part of the triggering of Article 5.

The ISAF mission initially led on the back of a UNSC mandate, it ended up being NATO led a little later, this and Resolute Support were considered Article 5 missions.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:00 pm
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Russian foreign ministry spokesman is saying that Finland and Sweden would 'face some military and political consequences' if they tried to join Nato.

And so the widening circle of threats starts...


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:26 pm
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Russian foreign ministry spokesman is saying that Finland and Sweden would ‘face some military and political consequences’ if they tried to join Nato.

I kind of hope their response is "oh, we already did" what are these consquences of which you speak?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:28 pm
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I am corrected, thanks for point that out 🙂


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:30 pm
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Might want to have an objective read of history there bud.

I know it's not in the spirit of recent threads, but I accept your correction of my statement and agree I wasn't entirely correct


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:33 pm
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No worries, I spent way too much time there so thought it best to really understand why I was. Got info, still didn't make things any clearer. 😀

Lithuania and Poland both wrap around Kaliningrad, is it quiet there or stuff happening too?

The US are currently on a large scale exercise there, 82nd Airborne amongst others, I think Russia will give that a swerve.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:38 pm
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The US are currently on a large scale exercise there, 82nd Airborne amongst others, I think Russia will give that a swerve.

UK is in Estonia, Germany in Poland (etc).
I do get the feeling that the ramparts of NATO are currently being bolstered, and will continue to be for a long while.
Back to the cold war permanent basing of troops in Europe for all of us perhaps?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:55 pm
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Russian foreign ministry spokesman

If he is the same as the guy heading up the press conference I watched earlier he is clearly madder than a box of frogs.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 4:56 pm
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No doubt, all that infra handed back and or/developed/wasted, oh my days. The video of Boris chipping off at the DSC about no need for armour/tank battles in Europe is not aging well.

Back to the cold war permanent basing of troops in Europe for all of us perhaps?


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:03 pm
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US says Russian forces losing momentum, it does seem like they've staved off Russian air superiority for now. I hope they give Russia hell on their way into the capital but i don't see Putin backing down even if it's harder than he thought.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:03 pm
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If he is the same as the guy heading up the press conference I watched earlier he is clearly madder than a box of frogs.

It doesn't really look like there's anyone sane left in the Kremlin.

If there are then they're keeping their heads down


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:03 pm
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It doesn’t really look like there’s anyone sane left in the Kremlin.

How long are people like Abramovich going to ally themselves with the Russian goverment if they have lost the plot, the crazier Putin gets the harder it gets for the oligarchs to keep their money secure.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:08 pm
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Russian Foreign Minister's spokeswoman has just threatened Finland and Sweden with "serious detrimental consequences of a diplomatic and military kind" should they consider applying to join NATO.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:09 pm
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Death of Lenin was a great film, probably worth a rewatch tonight


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:09 pm
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Stalin not Lenin...doh!


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:10 pm
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Russian Foreign Minister’s spokeswoman has just threatened Finland and Sweden with “serious detrimental consequences of a diplomatic and military kind” should they consider applying to join NATO.

Sounds like the kind of behaviour that would make me want to apply to join NATO, even if I hadn't wanted to before. Hardly 4D chess from the Putinistas.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:10 pm
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Sounds like the kind of behaviour that would make me want to apply to join NATO, even if I hadn’t wanted to before. Hardly 4D chess from the Putinistas.

Alexander Stubb
@alexstubb
·
11m
Russia is pushing Finland closer to
@nato
membership. Vloser than ever before. Our security has been partially based on an option to join. At this rate we have no other option but to join. Finland’s accession would strengthen the Alliance and help keep Northern Europe stable.

Former prime minister of Finland just said this.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:13 pm
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If there are then they’re keeping their heads down

With a boss like Putin wouldnt you? Unlike most bosses when he tells HR to terminate someone it might not be immediately clear which meaning he intends.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:16 pm
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Putin's direct appeal to Ukrainians to help overthrow their government and the accompanying insults remind me of lord hawhaw in WW2 - and we all know what happened to him.


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:17 pm
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Top Taliban Trolling!😂


 
Posted : 25/02/2022 5:30 pm
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