Ukraine

Or are you just talking tripe?

No you are just incapable of reading.

Over 50 deaths already being reported on German news. Feels very close to family and friends over there. My wife is very upset. Understandably so. 20th century German/Russian history is not the best. Her grandfather died in Stalingrad before her mother was even born.

Terrible, absolutely terrible. Those poor people. I am sure Putin is hoping for a Blitzkrieg style victory, with Ukrainian defences overwhelmed quickly. If the Ukrainians can hold on for a few days or weeks then their chances of avoiding this have to be improved.

Putin is looking and sounding ill, I’d say he’s being driven by something we don’t know yet and he simply doesn’t care.

I always thought in the past that his main problem was clearly his repressed homosexuality, but in watching the coverage of him over the last couple of weeks, he looks like an absolute madman. It doesn't look that theres much rational thinking going on.

Over 50 deaths already being reported on German news. Feels very close to family and friends over there. My wife is very upset. Understandably so. 20th century German/Russian history is not the best. Her grandfather died in Stalingrad before her mother was even born.

I'm sorry to read this Welshfarmer.

I am sure Putin is hoping for a Blitzkrieg style victory, with Ukrainian defences overwhelmed quickly

Even if they roll into Kyiv tomorrow this will be a blood bath for months. The Ukrainians aren’t going to take this lying down

I fully expect some kind of reprisals in way of ‘terrorist’ attacks in Moscow in near future

None of this matters to putin however. He has clearly lost his marbles, and is existing in a parallel universe.

On a side note, I find it somewhat ironic and utterly pathetic that a man so paranoid about his own health that he insisted on a ten meter gap between fellow world leaders due to covid, is so willing to sacrifice the lives of other with not a second thought. What an utter cxxx.

Russia can’t afford a long term occupation with soldiers going home in body bags. They wouldn’t stand for it now the way they did in the 80s.

There appears to be mobile cremation units following the advance to dispose of Russian bodies for plausible denial.

There appears to be mobile cremation units following the advance to dispose of Russian bodies for plausible denial.

Citation needed for that

It's hard to deny the existence of someone these days let alone the numbers that may die, how does he hide the wounded?

Citation needed for that

I saw a tweet (I think) suggesting the mobile Crematorium story, I'll see if I can dig it out. I'm not sure what to make of it, TBH.

Citation needed for that

I read the story on the Telegraph last night. Very bleak/disturbing.

Agreed though, I wonder if western propaganda..

The video associated with it, just grim. A truck that opens up and in they pop, evaporated

how does he hide the wounded?

It doesn't really bear thinking about, but it may be that wounded = dead, one way or another.

It’s hard to deny the existence of someone these days let alone the numbers that may die

Or handle the parents asking why their son hasnt written home recently? Its something which is far more likely to cause long term issues with the MIA. Just look at the USA MIA from Vietnam and how caused long term harm.

Now I could believe they have the cremation truck so the intelligence services can disappear any Ukranians who they have identified as possible insurgency leaders/advocates.

Time for Johnson to shine? Remind me what is that you cannot polish?

I am sure Putin is hoping for a Blitzkrieg style victory, with Ukrainian defences overwhelmed quickly

I'm pretty sure that will happen.
However, we saw that in Afghanistan, twice, Iraq, Chechnya
Winning the war is the easy bit, subjugating the people is quite another. And Ukraine is better armed and has a bigger military than Afghanistan or Chechnya, the resistance is likely to be better trained and more united than the Afghans were

In Soviet Russia turd polishes you.

It's grim.
Putin has had his life what's he got left 5 years?
And he is talking about nukes with the instant reprisal it can't be any thing else.
No way on earth the people of Russia want this but no replacement for Putin is going to be found he has it locked down.

so paranoid about his own health that he insisted on a ten meter gap between fellow world leaders due to covid, is so willing to sacrifice the lives of other with not a second thought.

There's a line from a Grace Paley story that always sticks with me - "Wars that men plan for their sons".

It's always those that are safely insulated from danger that are happy to sacrifice others - people younger and poorer than them - for their own ego trips.

My company would be forced to mothball and my friends could be without money.

Isn't part of the point of sanctions that it creates internal pressure on the government from it's own population?

Think he might not stop until a puppet regime is in place

I'm sure that's exactly what he has in mind. The Russian invasion of East Ukraine was in response to the ousting of the previous pro-Russian Ukraine leader.

Ukraine is better armed and has a bigger military than Afghanistan or Chechnya, the resistance is likely to be better trained and more united than the Afghans were

But they are out in the open, no mountains and caves to hide in.

True about the caves, but i am sure you would see a huge amount of SAM's appearing in ukraine that would cause the Russian air force a lot of issues

Slowoldman it was my point, others were saying that the sanctions will not affect the oligarchs but they will create internal pressure. Russia is more progressive now than in the near past and this invasion is a shock to a lot of Russians. My friend was sure just a few days ago that Putin was playing ‘Chess’ to get some concessions, I woke up to a WhatsApp message that said ‘I am shocked!!!’

Isn’t part of the point of sanctions that it creates internal pressure on the government from it’s own population?

Depends on the type but for a general trade embargo then yes. Its effectiveness though is somewhat debatable and may even be counterproductive since they then get to hand out that restricted item to their main followers.
Its a bit of a catch 22 since those sort of sanctions would work best against a country which has free and open elections where the government knows they will be out at the next election if the population get upset. However those countries are not that likely to need the sanctions in the first place. When applied to a dictator who is willing to murder opponents and never fails to get less than 99% each election it doesnt have such obvious benefits.

What a shitshow.

There's no winning this one. Putin is a madman, but he's a madman with nuclear weapons to keep the rest of the world at bay and near total control within his borders.

I doubt it'll be a push-over for Russia, they've got 130k personnel either in Ukraine or at the border, Ukraine has 245k personnel and at least based on their new reports they're handing weapons out to anyone who wants one for the fight and in theory millions of conscripts. It's going to be a horrible few months for everyone in that part of the world.

I just hope it doesn't spill into Hungary, technically even if a single shot is fired at that, Nato has to retaliate.

Only 4% of Russians believe that their country is responsible for the crisis

A sobering view of a drunken reality.

I doubt it’ll be a push-over for Russia, they’ve got 130k personnel either in Ukraine or at the border

...and a hell of a lot more currently not at the border.

I can't help thinking Ukraine is Putin's Sudetenland. Poland next?

they’re handing weapons out to anyone who wants one for the fight

One would assume they're supplied by NATO or "The West". If they are this could easily be another risk factor.

I can’t help thinking Ukraine is Putin’s Sudetenland. Poland next?

That is unthinkable really, Poland is a member of NATO, if Russia attacks Poland than the rest of NATO is bound to retaliate, and it's no good anyone saying "okay, we'll have a war, but we won't use the Nukes" because as soon as one side is on the brink of losing, the ICBMs will fly.

I see China is failing to condemn, which is no great surprise.

This made me smile though: the official advice to Chinese citizens in Ukraine.

China told its citizens in Ukraine to fly a Chinese flag to try to protect themselves.

Would be great if the entire Ukranian population posted Chinese flags in their windows and in public places. What would the Russians do?

That is unthinkable really,

Putin is unhinged.

Just tragic.

Poland is a member of NATO, if Russia attacks Poland than the rest of NATO is bound supposed to retaliate

As you say though, any retaliation effectively starts WW3, and no-one wants that. And Putin is pretty good at calling bluffs, isn't he?

Poland next?

Baltic States. Putin's seen Fawlty Towers.

And WW3's come closer than you may think in the past, and the saviours have been fairly unexpected...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11753050

As I said in earlier post wait for a few days. Wishful thinking of the world trying to talk Putin down by convincing themselves he would not attack. Now that Putin has attacked, the west can only sit and watch. Let's see how NATO and Ukraine's EU neighbours will react, but I guess not much other than arms supply for resistance.

NATO/EU will not react much if Putin only takes Ukraine because they are not prepared for a greater war. Ukraine is a "sacrificial lamb" so to say in order to avoid war.

If Western world do not think of their energy policy for future by relying on Russia, then when the next great war comes it will be a longer and harder war with at least a 10 year long hard war.

Weak leaders are weak.

It's like in the history where the civilised tried to convince and to talk down the Mongol invasion.

p/s: Seeing the "glorious" Russia, CCP will now be increasingly bold on their claim on Taiwan and SE Asia.

And WW3’s come closer than you may think in the past, and the saviours have been fairly unexpected…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11753050/blockquote >

Send him out to serenade Vlad into submission? You're Puti-ful? No?

 

**** borders – they’re lines in the dirt.

Why can’t these idiots just let people get on with their daily lives & stop being massive dicks.

Bravo sir. Best post I've seen on here for quite some time.

So what’s stopping Ukraine firing back at the Russians? Do they have the capabilities to hit back at any of their cities without nato support to do so?

Obviously that would only lead to further pointless loss of life, but on the flip side if there are Russians citizens having to relocate to air raid shelters then I’m sure putin would lose support very very quickly. Is this even a viable option for Ukraine?

As far as I can see the only way this goes away is if Putin goes away. We can’t just assassinate him, he needs to be ousted internally. He’s unhinged, illogical, and very dangerous

Just to add to the fun, China has 'invaded' Taiwanese Airspace with 9 military jets today, although from what I can tell, they do that quite a bit.

Who had WW3 after Covid in the seemingly never-ending series of shitshows since 9/11?

if there are Russians citizens having to relocate to air raid shelters then I’m sure putin would lose support very very quickly

You think? Putin would use that to boost support, I'm sure.

Obviously that would only lead to further pointless loss of life, but on the flip side if there are Russians citizens having to relocate to air raid shelters then I’m sure putin would lose support very very quickly.

I'm far from sure it would. Coventry, Hamburg, London, Cologne etc didn't topple governments.

**** me sideways, that mobile crematorium video is grim. Like something straight out of the darkest post apocalyptic fiction.

From Covid straight into this, with climate change, environmental degradation, and an ever increasing far right simmering in the background.

Bleak. I'm going for a ride to cheer myself up.

He’s unhinged, illogical, and very dangerous

I think he's unhinged, extremely logical and very dangerous

Definitely

He is like HAL from 2001, and we are stuck with Holly from Red Dwarf but without the IQ.

Timely release of Colin Furze's latest sub terrarium video.

I’m far from sure it would. Coventry, Hamburg, London, Cologne etc didn’t topple governments.

Agreed - from everything I have ever read, it just strengthens the resolve of the general public and I really don't think any Government is going to go to the lengths of what happened in WW2 at places like Hamburg, Dresden, Cologne where 10s of thousands of civilians were killed in area/strategic bombing. The eventual outcome of that sort of act is quite frankly unthinkable.

Ukraine has 245k personnel

and circa 900k reservists. That's 'a lot'!!

So what’s stopping Ukraine firing back at the Russians? Do they have the capabilities to hit back at any of their cities without nato support to do so?

Obviously that would only lead to further pointless loss of life, but on the flip side if there are Russians citizens having to relocate to air raid shelters then I’m sure putin would lose support very very quickly. Is this even a viable option for Ukraine?

Ukraine seem to be taking the moral high ground and playing the long game. At huge cost.

War in the Ukraine is not popular with normal Russians. If their sons start coming home in body bags from Putins pointless war, it will not play well at home, and undermine his regime.

Ukraine attacking Russia and Russian civilians strengthens Putins hand, and Ukraine know the only way to make Putin and his madness end for him to be brought down by his own people.

and circa 900k reservists

Russia has an active force of some 900,000 and around 2m reserve...

So what’s stopping Ukraine firing back at the Russians?

I think they are, aren't they. I know they destroyed some tanks at Kharkiv, and I've seen pictures of captured Russian soldiers and a crashed helicopter. (although I've no idea whether it's Russian or Ukrainian, I think both use the same types). I've seen pictures of Ukrainian transport plans that have been shot as well.

We should make no mistake that once Russia gets control of the infrastructure, any organisation, let alone mobilisation, of Ukranian troops is going to be impossible.

Without comms there's not going to be a lot of meaningful opposition from the Ukrainians, be they regulars, reservists or guerillas.

And don't expect Russia to treat any insurgents mercifully.

I can’t help thinking Ukraine is Putin’s Sudetenland. Poland next?

I've assumed it will be Georgia, as it's another country that he has set up two 'disputed territories' in (South Ossetia and Abkhazia)

So what’s stopping Ukraine firing back at the Russians?

I think they are, aren’t they. I know they destroyed some tanks at Kharkiv, and I’ve seen pictures of captured Russian soldiers and a crashed helicopter. (although I’ve no idea whether it’s Russian or Ukrainian, I think both use the same types). I’ve seen pictures of Ukrainian transport plans that have been shot as well.

I think they mean attacking Russia, rather than Russians in Ukraine.

I think they mean attacking Russia

Oh right, thanks, misunderstood

Stop the bus, I want get off.

Also Moldova - they have one of their puppet enclaves there too. Svalbard has never been mentioned, but their subsea communications cable has had a mishap. It is subject to a historic claim and Barentsberg is a Donbass with polar bears.

Anybody else seriously struggling to concentrate on work with this shit going on?

Putin is a mad c**t.

Anybody else seriously struggling to concentrate on work with this shit going on?

Putin is a mad c**t.

Yeah, my reserves of “oh it’ll be alright in the end” are long gone. I honestly think there’s a decent chance we’ll look back at today as the start of WW3 or at least the second Cold War.

Anybody else seriously struggling to concentrate on work with this shit going on?

No more than the distractions caused by other scary stuff like climate change, pandemic, potential economic collapse etc. The world has been heading for this for quite some time. This is what happens when we allow narcissistic individuals to get too rich and too powerful. If it wasn't Putin it'd be someone else. These billionaire parasites need to be eliminated, either physically or financially, I don't care which.

The world has been heading for this for quite some time.

The situation will continue for a long time.

If it wasn’t Putin it’d be someone else.

CCP will be next for SE Asia as they have already been eyeing that for sometimes. Again they refer to SE Asia as their historical "protectorate" rights.

Yeah, my reserves of “oh it’ll be alright in the end” are long gone. I honestly think there’s a decent chance we’ll look back at today as the start of WW3 or at least the second Cold War.

Indeed. I think what's more worrying at this point is the region rapidly dissolving into what happened in the former Yugoslavia, where they just massacred huge numbers of people. God help all those poor people on the receiving end of this. From the footage online it looks absolutely terrifying

I honestly think there’s a decent chance we’ll look back at today as the start of WW3 or at least the second Cold War.

Those were my exact thoughts this morning listening to Nick Robinson on Radio 4 this morning.

The FYR had a big mix of religious groups that hated each other. That really isn’t the case here.

Heavy fighting around Chernobyl.

"Accidental" huge dirty bomb in the making potentially?

This is what happens when we allow narcissistic individuals to get too rich and too powerful.

Hmmmmm.

Not sure how 'we' (or maybe you?) stop this from happening?

There's a load of people who would complain if 'we' started interfering in a country's internal affairs, or even tried to overthrow a terrible dictator. Remember Iraq and Syria?

Best thing to do is to speak softly and carry a big stick. Which is basically what NATO is - a big stick.

And NATO has given Europe peace for 75 years, like it or not.

Had Ukraine been accepted as a NATO member 20 years ago, just as Putin started on his power trip, there is no chance he would be invading today.

Anybody else seriously struggling to concentrate on work with this shit going on?

Yes, it's all so senseless and saddening.

Is there any talk of sanctions against Belarus? Haven't seen much in the news about them but they have allowed Russia to attack from their borders, seems like it warrants some action?

I also wonder how misled the Russian troops must be, it's hard to imagine them all thinking this is being done for Russia's protection and is a just war. They are probably on the receiving end of more propaganda than the Russian public though.

Anybody else seriously struggling to concentrate on work with this shit going on?

Absolutely. I was only beginning to feel my normal self again this last month or so, as we got through the worst of the pandemic. I worried more for others than myself. And now this. I feel quite ashamed to admit that something happening in another country makes me feel seriously anxious.

There were some female Ukrainian solders talking to the prese only a few days ago.

I dread too think the fate that will befall them if they fall into Russian hands alive. I suspect they know that.

Deeply saddening.

Never thought I would live through "a rise of Hitler" moment in my lifetime.

I feel quite ashamed to admit that something happening in another country makes me feel seriously anxious.

Nothing to feel ashamed about and a feeling shared in much of europe at the moment and by myself.

I feel quite ashamed to admit that something happening in another country makes me feel seriously anxious.

Don't be ashamed mate. It's the most natural reaction with something of this magnitude. The implications are huge for everybody, far beyond the borders of Ukraine. I'd be more concerned if you didn't feel anxious. I know I do

Who took the Kremlin website down?
It’s been out of action for the last 13 mins when I checked on is it down

Cyber attack apparently

Vladimir Putin warns that Moscow's response will be "instant" if anyone tries to take on Russia

This is the scary bit because he %^*&ing means it too.

I don't think this will affect us directly (except rising costs etc) but Christ, I really feel worried for the people of Ukraine. This really is horrible to watch, and brings back memories of the shit show that was the collapse of Yugoslavia.

Hopefully the worlds hackers are having a go at them!!

I don’t think this will affect us directly

Hmmm, don't be so sure. If Nato are backed into a corner whereby they have to lend direct military support, expect China to step up too...

I also wonder how misled the Russian troops must be, it’s hard to imagine them all thinking this is being done for Russia’s protection and is a just war. They are probably on the receiving end of more propaganda than the Russian public though.

Ukranian Ambassador to the US was on Sky News a little while ago making a statement and said that a platoon of Russian troops had surrendered as they didn't realise they were being sent to kill Ukranians. No idea how true that is but that's what she claimed. Also, no idea what those Russian troops could have thought other than they were being sent to invade a country which surely would end up with some killing.

The West should be cyber-attacking them back to the Stone Age

Hmmm, don’t be so sure. If Nato are backed into a corner whereby they have to lend direct military support, expect China to step up too…

Yep, it will only take one small thing to trigger a domino effect that will rapidly be unstoppable, leading to WW3 or another Cold War.

The West should be cyber-attacking them back to the Stone Age

The concern would be they could return the favour plus at what stage does a cyberattack become serious enough to deserve a physical counter attack?

Hopefully the worlds hackers are having a go at them!!

Careful what you wish for, I think Vlad has got some pretty good ones of his own.

Anybody else seriously struggling to concentrate on work with this shit going on?

Putin is a mad c**t.

Yeah, me. I have to say I feel exhausted and stressed today and I can't work out why as I didn't think this would bother me in a direct way like this.