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. But I also don't think there's anything they can do to actually address that. They can't out-Reform Reform. Would swapping Starmer for Burnham change things? I think unlikely in the long run.
Yes they can do something about it, they just won't. If voters felt that Labour had a radical programme which would transform both society and their lives Reform would not get a look in.
The growing support for Reform isn't because Reform have won the argument in the eyes of voters, it's an act of desperation.
The existing status quo is no longer tenable, people want something substantially different. The far-right agenda isn't the only alternative and not the only thing which is substantially different, as many seem to think.
And yes I agree that Andy Burnham wouldn't make a huge difference. Yes he would probably help stem the loss of support that Labour are losing to the left but he doesn't have anything substantial to offer those attracted to the right.
It is worth remembering also that this is not an all-or-nothing situation. It will be very difficult to stop Reform ending up the largest party after the next general election but reducing the size of their "victory" is a more attainable goal which should at least be prioritised.
The growing support for Reform isn't because Reform have won the argument in the eyes of voters, it's an act of desperation.
Agree, which is the why Starmer is such a massive disappointment. To an average voter who is not into the political details there is so little difference between Tories, LibDem and now Labour that they will go for anything different. Bit of a shame that is Reform and if they were into the details it may not be, but it is.
If voters felt that Labour had a radical programme which would transform both society and their lives Reform would not get a look in.
Think they'd settle for being able to get a GP appointment. On that subject, I don't know if it's a result of govt policy but my local GP has implemented an online triage platform which is the only route to getting an appointment. My Mrs used it this morning in the hope of getting a routine appointment in relation to a urinary infection (she gets them fairly regularly and needs antibiotics), after spending 30 mins answering questions the app told her to go to A+E. She called the surgery and they said they can't book appointments outside the triage app. So the upshot is that it's now much harder to get a GP appt now than it was before. It's not just my Mrs either, one of my mates told me yesterday he had the same problem. Curious whether this is a common or universal problem but if it is I foresee a crisis on the horizon in General Practice and A+E waiting times.
em. Curious whether this is a common or universal problem but if it is I foresee a crisis on the horizon in General Practice and A+E waiting times.
my GP has been online for over a year and its been excellent, no longer have the ridiculous nonsense of being 35th in the phone queue at 08:01
Its also a very simple online form to fill out and you get a response pretty quickly
it sounds like your practice has a duff IT system!
it sounds like your practice has a duff IT system!
Oh it definitely does. My point is though that if this is widespread then the govt aren't going to be able to use this excuse. They promised to make it easier to get a GP appt, and if this experience is common then they're in trouble.
OMG, just when I thought that this nasty authoritarian right-wing government couldn't possibly get any worse this comes along :
“I think we need to go further than that in relation to some of the chants that are going on at some of these protests.”
And yet the Poundland Nigel Farage fails to give one single solitary example of the sort of chant he is referring to. And for very obvious reasons, ie, he is talking complete shite.
The police currently have all the powers necessary to deal with anything that is illegal. Sir Keir Starmer just wants feed this false narrative championed by the far-right concerning people who are demanding an end to the horrific genocide being committed against Palestinian men, women, and children.
Yesterday Kemi Badenoch talked about a "carnival of hate" in an attempt to vilify those who demand an end to the war crimes and crimes against humanity being committed in Palestine, today Sir Keir Starmer tries to silence the same people who Badenoch attempted to vilify.
On more and more issues Farage, Badenoch, and Starmer, are all singing from the same hymn sheet
I just see all this stuff now as - 'failed at governance' - boxed ourselves in; what desperate reactionary shit can we come up that will please absolutely no one. It's almost on a daily basis now.
That's really all it is. This is what happens when your campaign and manifestos were effectively fraudulent.
If there was a war going begging Starmer would have every 16 year old lined up tomorrow.
Now here's something that you might not be aware of :
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/displaying-palestine-action-posters-legal-5HjdF8p_2/
Under the Terrorism Act 2000, a person commits an offence if they “arouse reasonable suspicion that he is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation,” but only if it happens in a “public place.”
So there you have it, if it happens in a public place you are a badass terrorist and should be immediately arrested. However if you do it in the privacy of your own home away from the public then it isn't terrorism and there is no reason at all to arrest you under terrorism legislation.
Who knew that terrorism ceases to be terrorism if it isn't done in public?
You gotta feel sorry for the old bill desperately trying to find ways to ignore ridiculous and highly repressive laws introduced by a "Labour" government which wants to silence criticism.
I particularly liked this little rant from UK lawyers for Israel :
There is a risk that if you allow one and say, that's lawful, that you'll end up with whole streets with these in their windows, creating a distinctly intimidating atmosphere for Jewish people and other people who are generally supportive - for example, the British Armed Forces.
So according to UK lawyers for Israel saying "I oppose genocide" could make some people feel intimidated! Or is it "I support Palestine Action" which might scare "the British Armed Forces"?
I love the way they include the "British" armed forces in people who might feel intimidated, it almost sounds as if opposing genocide might be unpatriotic and un-British!
What I know for sure is that the multitude of Jews who be out this coming Saturday in central London to oppose the genocide being carried out by a far-right apartheid regime won't feel in the least bit intimidated.
https://bsky.app/profile/premnsikka.bsky.social/post/3m2qjn76el22q
Please - not under Starmer's watch he will go into single digits.
Seriously I do think this is brewing but like all predictions they've often don't play out when you expect them.
We are probably due quite a crunch though. Things do seem to be aligning.
Ive got a techbro-crypto****er* mate and he reckons the amount of money goin into anything AI related that gets listed is gobbled up before anyone even knows what it is, BUT hes absolutely adamant that its going to have a huge impact and we are all unprepared for the change thats coming
(*thats a technical name for him- retired at 40 after using the profits from selling his IT consultancy to buy bitcoin when nobody understood what it was, now winters in south america and spends summer in Ibiza with his model/surfer girlfriend)
anyway
I see this conspiracy that was picked up by lots on teh left & right and came from a pro-reform twitter account with a long history of fake news has been exposed
but its still taken as fact by many
It was called out as conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread at very short notice. Better fact checking than most places here... including the BBC. Crazy times.
EDIT: credit where credit is due... ernielynch was straight in there with the debunking first.
On AI... this government has got very excited about how it can help clear some admin backlogs... well done them where that's been shown to work... but also seem to be super keen to jump in with the very USA companies that are over hyping more general LLM models and are trying to put their hands on the scales in their own favour when it comes to UK energy use and data & IP protection.
Ive got a techbro-crypto****er* mate and he reckons the amount of money goin into anything AI related that gets listed is gobbled up before anyone even knows what it is, BUT hes absolutely adamant that its going to have a huge impact and we are all unprepared for the change thats coming
The Ai investment bubble will likely burst this time around.
Valuations are significantly more stupid than the dotcom job.
Thank god for all our political parties, they'll know what's best for us in how to tackle this issue.
Has everyone voted in the deputy leadership election then? 😃
Has everyone voted in the deputy leadership election then?
No became a green member a few weeks ago and voted for someone who gives a toss. But my Labour membership was on the fire a few years ago now anyway.
Tsk!
All I've got from AI so far is more bells and whistles on the editing software that barely improve a thing.
My partner's a teacher and she says all the kids are all cheating so they've had to use AI detectors to seek them out and the staff are also using AI to respond to emails. The results are painfully embarrassing.
Instagram is polluted with even more shit.
But someone's getting rich.
Also on getting NHS appointments as per above - fill in online form on Monday ..... Friday they get back to you asking what your symptoms are and whether you've tried to resolve it.
Then you can have an appointment.
Pathetic.
What a time to be alive.
Has everyone voted in the deputy leadership election then? 😃
No, I withdrew from my Union's political fund so I no longer have a vote. No great loss with this current shower.
Great link. And our government is right behind the USA one in giving Altman and others a regulation free zone to make their billions off of other people’s work.
No, I haven’t voted, as my membership has lapsed since the election, and I’m in no mood to send more money their way right now. Also, it’s a done deal isn’t it? The rules were set to make it all very boring.
It's almost as if Nigel Farage is already Prime Minister
When questioned about Houbi’s case during a recent BBC interview, David Lammy, the deputy prime minister, said: “It’s important to understand that we are actually dependent on Israeli permissions to bring those people out, and that has not been easy to get.”
But Israeli officials said they had not blocked Houbi leaving Gaza.
Since when has the apartheid regime been reluctant to allow Palestinians to leave illegally Occupied Palestine? All the overwhelming evidence is that they want them to do precisely that, especially in Gaza. Perhaps the Labour deputy Prime Minister is worried that the Israeli regime won't allow them to return home?
Houbi and her family are now living in a tent in Khan Younis, after their home in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, was destroyed by Israeli airstrikes early in the war.
So Manar al-Houbi’s family would have all their living costs and housing paid for without the UK government needing to, plus it would get them out of a dire humanitarian crisis, but this so-called Labour government refuses to allow them into the UK.
I think Sir Keir Starmer might be right about something after all...... there's no need to vote Reform just vote Labour.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/migrant-learn-english-to-a-level-standard-5HjdFLZ_2/
According to our so-called Labour Home Secretary :
“It is unacceptable for migrants to come here without learning our language, unable to contribute to our national life.
If you come to this country, you must learn our language and play your part.”
Apparently according to Shabana Mahmood migrants have not been playing their part and contributing to our national life, so to correct that they are now expected to learn English to A Level standard, which is a standard higher than the majority of the UK population can manage.
Including I dare say the Reform voters that Labour and Keir Starmer, the poundland Nigel Farage, are trying to entice.
God I hate this right-wing government. And Shabana Mahmood really is as bad as Home Secretary as Priti Patel and Suella Braverman were.
Someone remind me what the point of Labour was?
Inflated optimism I say, me Chancellor. Question is where does the growth come from?
The Chancellor has predicted UK to be the 2nd fastest growing in advanced economies in the coming year.
As I said previously, the Govt would be grinning from ear to ear if UK could achieve the predicted 1.4% growth this year (Currently at 1.3% max)
The latest prediction is that UK might only be able to achieve 0.7% growth in 2026 in line with Euro Zone (also 0.7%). Growth is expected to slow down in 2026 in most of the major economies.
I guess we will only find out next year, and if the target of 1.4% cannot be achieved, I guess the Chancellor will have to revise the number again.
The Chancellor has predicted UK to be the 2nd fastest growing in advanced economies in the coming year.
No she did not, the article you linked states the IMF have predicted the UK will be the 2nd fastest growing member of the G7. Which notably excludes China and India. It's also a prediction, from a third party, and not a government target in itself.
The government will likely have a growth target, but I'm not aware they've actually published and official number. Happy to be corrected if they have published something, and not a snippet taken in random conversations with journos.
The IMF also assume they're not being misled by the data provided to their country offices which forms a large chunk of their predictions, so there's that too.
expected to learn English to A Level standard, which is a standard higher than the majority of the UK population can manage.
It’s really weird but as a kid I’d have loved to do an English A level but we only had the o-level available (Brizzle 80’s inner city school). I had to do English lit and that just didn’t work out 🙂
It would be funny if other countries decided that you need an an academic level of language to retire.
I get it’s work but tbh if you can’t talk the language the type of work you’re going to get is going to be pretty limited and unlikely to get employers desperate to sponsor you.
I get its for the daily mail readers afraid of the foreign voices they hear on the bus, but strangely even if you can speak the language you’ll probably use your native language to people who also native speakers of it.
I work in (Healthcare) a part of town that has a high ****stani population. We have an over representation in the patients who have no English but have lived here for decades - similar to the English in Spain. They watch Urdu telly, they read Urdu newspapers. It's mostly women, but not confined to just them. I regularly see women relying on their husbands or other male family members for translation. I've seen those same men contemptuously screw up printed 'scripts and throw them on the floor of the waiting room.
Requiring English makes those folks just a little less vulnerable.
What does that actually mean? As far as I’m aware English A level is about literature, not anything to do with communicating with your neighbours. Or are we expecting migrants to have a view on Pride and Prejudice?
Has Suella Mahmood announced how this is to be enforced? Will there be a written test on arrival? Coursework? Perhaps a quick quiz on the flight over? Or will this insular and backwards policy simply reply on someone getting a certificate from somewhere which says they have A-Level English equivalent?
It's also faintly ironic given how appalling the general standard of English written and spoken by your typical Reform voter. Will they be tested too before they get their benefits? Obviously using a comma for an apostrophe is an instant fail, as is a double space, not capitalising proper nouns, capitalising other words, not using full stops, and finishing every single message with an x.
Do we still have the Rwanda agreement, because that's reserved for anyone who delivers a long string of misspelled thoughts separated only by ellipses.
Someone remind me what the point of Labour was?
Supporting people who work - i.e. not immigrants who come here to take jobs and suppress wages. Also not benefit claimants, because they also take from people who work and make society as a whole poorer. Shame some of the Labour back benchers can't see that.
As the overall A-level pass rate is 97.3% I don't think the test is going to be that hard. We can all have a go when samples go online in January. It'll no doubt be as relevant as the current cultural test which we found was mainly history trivia when STWers tried it. When you meet migrants in future expect them to use "whom" where most people don't know they should and the subjunctive that most people don't know exists.
This reminds me of a sour-grapes book by an American who had failed the French civil service exam for working in universities etc., "agrégation", because the level of French required is beyond even most French university-educated people. The author argued that it was France that was suffering because it was excluding foreigners that would do a better job than French nationals. Can't be that hard though, Madame got it.
On the other hand the level of French needed to get French nationality is very modest.
Supporting people who work - i.e. not immigrants who come here to take jobs and suppress wages.
Now consider all the immigrants "who come here" and create jobs with good wage levels.
Migrants make up 8% of the population and generate 10% of GDP.
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/immigrants-economic-contributions/
As far as I’m aware English A level is about literature, not anything to do with communicating with your neighbours.
There are English Language A Levels in the 21st Century.
On other points… language requirements can make it hard for people to bring relatives that need care over to be with them… while other immigration changes made in the last ten years mean that going abroad to help care for relatives could lose you your right to come back to work. A nasty catch 22 situation.
As for benefits and workers… it’s worth looking at how many worker receive benefits. Especially true for people who need benefits to be in or get to work.
We have an over representation in the patients who have no English
That is not what our right-wing anti-immigrant Home Secretary is talking about. She is not talking about immigrants not speaking English, there already exists a requirement for migrants to speak English.
What Mahmood is saying in an attempt to out-farage Nigel Farage is that the standard of English that immigrants coming over here speak isn't high enough. She wants them to be able to speak and understand "complex English grammar".
Read the link, even I, foreign born and who only managed Grade2 CSE English at school understood what she is saying.
Do the patients at your surgery really need to speak and understand "complex English grammar"?
More stuff here direct from the government in easy-to-understand English and without too many big words :
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/migrants-will-be-required-to-pass-a-level-standard-of-english
Btw is "we have an over representation in the patients" correct? I wouldn't claim to be a grammar expert but it sounds like pisspoor English to me 🧐
When you meet migrants in future expect them to use "whom" where most people don't know they should and the subjunctive that most people don't know exists.
They are going to come over here taking our jobs and our women AND telling us how to speak our own language ffs.
I blame Labour.
As the overall A-level pass rate is 97.3% I don't think the test is going to be that hard.
Yes, that's the pass rate after two years of study.
Two years of studying a language which you have spent talking every day for fifteen plus years?
It's also self selecting... you choose your A levels... your average Brit would go no where near that course or exam. Taking it up already suggests an aptitude of some kind (not to mention requirements to have gained particular grades at lower level exams). The pass rate for A Level physics is probably above 90%. Most people wouldn't pass A Level physics after 2 years of study. I suspect the pass rate would be very, very low if you asked members of the general public to take the papers.
And for a part of those taking the A-level two years of hanging around smoking dope and doing **** all. 🙂 That and the % to suggest that an A-level pass is pretty worthless and doesn't say a lot about ability is an obtuse way of saying I don't think it's going to be much of a barrier to anyone motivated.
I spent 12 years of my life teaching English as a foreign language. IME if people need a language, are motivated and bright enough to hold down a job they very quickly learn. The house I'm sitting in was mainly paid for when an American oil company decided that all its foreign workers had to pass the TOEFL test. I was initially approached to be sent out to bases to teach, places like Angola, lovely. So I declined and suggested sending workers to us in France for week or two week residential courses. They agreed.
The workers generally had few formal qualifications, they'd got into the oil industry after working on (for example) fishing boats and worked their way up from the drill floor. But they were hard working, determined and their jobs depended on it. They did the courses, worked in their spare time and passed.
As Kelvin says it's more likely to be a barrier to dependants, which is I suspect the intention.
regularly see women relying on their husbands or other male family members for translation. I've seen those same men contemptuously screw up printed 'scripts and throw them on the floor of the waiting room
my mum was a maternity nurse for many years in Luton also with similar demographics
she says that often the minute the male relatives were sent home the expectant/new mothers started speaking English, but couldn't let their husbands/fathers know they spoke it
all having to take that exam might change that
which is I suspect the intention.
Cut to the chase, it is very obvious what the intention is. It's to create headlines and as my link says:
These measures are seen as a way for Labour to combat Reform UK's rise in the polls
Nigel Farage is now setting the agenda in UK politics and for all intents and purposes dictating Labour Party policy on issues such as immigration and asylum seekers.
When you have so little to offer it is just easier to agree with Nigel Farage that immigrants and asylum seekers are the problem.
the expectant/new mothers started speaking English, but couldn't let their husbands/fathers know they spoke it
Their husbands and fathers didn't know that they could speak English? Wow. But won't forcing them to pass A-level English get them into trouble with their husbands and fathers?
Nigel Farage is now setting the agenda in UK politics and for all intents and purposes dictating Labour Party policy on issues such as immigration and asylum seekers.
Indeed. It's the weird double header of "they shouldn't be here if they're not working" and "stop them working here, taking our jobs"... see the post Jamz put on this page. It all comes down to politicians chasing after the "get rid of the immigrants" voters. There's millions of them out there, and the two old parties are both terrified that the "party previously know as the Brexit Party" has the means and methods to attract those millions of voters. Maybe not the 17 million plus people who voted for Brexit, but they only need half that to have a good chance of getting the most votes at the next general election. And then there's the risk that we get Brexit part two, and more economic and social damage. So easy to see the fear in nearly every announcement this government makes. Yes, they are running scared of Farage. But their weird combination of giving the public some of what he is offering while simultaneously condemning him for going too far isn't going to work, in my opinion. It's only going to make him look more acceptable, and make people less wary towards him IMHO.
my mum was a maternity nurse for many years in Luton also with similar demographics
she says that often the minute the male relatives were sent home the expectant/new mothers started speaking English, but couldn't let their husbands/fathers know they spoke it
My mum was a midwife, then a health visitor and told me the exact same thing.
I have no problem setting tough criteria for migrants as after all they want to come to UK for whatever reason so they need to do whatever is required in same was as I can't just choose a country to live in and go and live there with no criteria to meet, paperwork to get approved etc,.
However, putting in that tough criteria will backfire as we all know we need a lot of migrants to enable the country to run and some far fetched BS about UK people doing all the jobs instead will soon get found out.
Could we potentially deport Boris Johnson for his constant use of Latin?
I assume there will be an option of Welsh or Scots Gaelic for those immigrants wishing to relocate to the devolved nations?
Looks like Reeves has just confirmed we're all going to be taxed more to fill 'the hole' created by the OBR changing it's forecast methodology. Obviously she doesn't think the Labour poll rating is low enough yet. She must be aiming for single figures. ####ing clueless!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/15/rachel-reeves-brexit-impact-tax-and-spending-budget
"Reeves confirmed the OBR had “consistently overestimated” the UK’s productivity and the expected downgrade of its previous assumptions would probably make the chancellor’s task even harder."
So we all have to pay because the OBR screwed up. I'm sure voters up and down the country will accept that with good grace and understanding. Will they bollocks! Like me, they'll be thinking if the OBR haven't done their jobs properly maybe we should simply get rid of it?
we're all going to be taxed more
All of us? Just about the only tax rise that would result in that would be a rise in VAT. Has she suggested that? [I really hope not] Or higher taxes on the better off to support services? [don't call it redistribution]
So we all have to pay because the OBR screwed up.
No, the government has to allow for a material change in world trade and investment circumstances, and their impact on the UK in its new (self chosen) situation.
Taxing the wrong people at the wrong time just removes money from the economy.
Not what you're meant to do if you want growth.
Fools.
Spreadsheet made me do this ... What about public outcomes?
Taxing the wrong people at the wrong time just removes money from the economy.
Agreed. But taxing the better off can be part of rebalancing the economy so that it works for all... rather than just the better off.
Or higher taxes on the better off to support services?
She's cutting services. None of these extra taxes are going to be used to improve services, they're going to fill an imaginary hole in the public finances created by a downgrading of productivity in the OBRs forecast models. Which leads to the obvious question that if the OBRs forecasts can't be relied upon, what's the point of it?
Higher taxes on the better off* should absolutely be used to improve services, I think we'd all be happy to pay a bit more tax if that was what is on offer. But it's not is it?
She can #### right off.
* Those of us who are slightly better off than the national average, but not the top 1% with 10s, hundreds or thousands of millions at their disposal.
https://www.health.org.uk/reports-and-analysis/analysis/health-care-funding
Funding in key services is increasing. Overall spending is increasing.
Those of us who are slightly better off than the national average
Whenever I hear this... it's nearly always from people on more than double the national average income, with more than double the national average held in wealth/assets.
that tough criteria will backfire as we all know we need a lot of migrants to enable the country to run
The UK certainly doesn't need a large volume of low skill, low productivity workers to do low value added jobs in the gig economy in the middle of a housing crisis. The Boriswave has proven that. Big employers and universities are ecstatic to see a huge volume of un-unionised, insecure workers and undemanding, fee paying students...but they don't care about the subsequent impact on the economy or society.
Whenever I hear this... it's nearly always from people on more than double the national average income, with more than double the national average held in wealth/assets.
I'm talking about more and more people being dragged into the 40% tax bracket. I know you probably think 50k/year is a very high salary but it really isn't. Yes, it's significantly more than the median of £31k but it includes people like social workers, teachers, nurses, electricians, plumbers etc. Historically the 40% tax bracket was applied to the 'high paid'. Are we now saying teachers and nurses are highly paid? Of course they're not, yet many will be paying 40% tax.
Most teachers and nurses do not get into the 40% tax bracket. It's true that more and more professionals are being drawn into the higher tax bracket by fiscal drag, if that's really such a concern... raise thresholds and raise rates together (I expect this government will do neither by the way). If you're only just inside the bracket, you're only paying that higher rate on a very small proportion of your earnings. If the 40% rate is having a big effect on your take home pay... you're doing much better than teachers and nurses.
"Similarly, of the 12 groups we examined in respect of annual earnings, 7 earn more than £50,000 a year on average, but again this does not include teachers."
https://neu.org.uk/latest/library/how-does-teachers-pay-compare-other-professions
raise thresholds and raise rates together
They're not doing that though are they? Thresholds have been frozen since 2021. A quick chatgpt says that if thresholds had been linked to prices and wage growth then the 40% threshold would be at about 64k. By 2028 (which is the current period they're frozen) it'll be more like 71k. You may not care if you're not near the 50k threshold but the reality is that millions of others will and Labour will pay the price at the ballot box. It's just another example of working people being screwed while the truly well-off don't have to worry too much.
This is all so painful.
She's not doing a thing that will improve government spending - they've not had the economic brains for that.
She's only interested in making it appear like her spreadsheet balances.
Your services will likely not get better, the economy will likely degrade and worst of all she chasing a moving target as nothing stays the same and she won't reach her aims - which even if she does - would deliver poor outcomes for us.
Balanced government budgets are structurally nonsensical and bad for growth, public purpose and investment.
Further to that balanced budgets are in essence recession inducing for the simple reason you drain money out of the economy.
In addition to all this, and back to basics - taxes never find spending. We are dealing with the illogical and irrational.
But that is Labour - performative and inadequate.
40% threshold would be at about 64k.
Kelvin think of it this way, if the thresholds hadn't been frozen in 2021 then anyone who was at the top end of the 20% rate in 2021 is probably now paying around 3k more in tax per year than they were then. That's a lot of money being extracted from a lot of people who in no way can be described as rich. You think that's ok when millionaire asset holders haven't seen any appreciable tax increases in that time? And we wonder why people are flocking to Reform. 🙄
Also - this may sound like it's come from a tory MP - but there is a material negative impact on the wider economy of having such a low high tax threshold. What's the point in working hard to get pay rises if you're only going to receive 50% (with NI added on) of the increase? What's the point in doing more difficult/stressful jobs if you're not going to be much better off? There's a reason there are so many retired doctors out there. Won't be long before we have lots of non-working teachers, social workers, paramedics, police officers etc. Who's going to do these jobs instead?
I understand how fiscal drag works, thank you anyway. And I agree thresholds should be increased (but they probably won't be anytime soon). I just want to call out this "just target the top 1%", "the top 10% are hard pressed" attitude. Both should be paying more. I very much doubt tax rate increases are coming to pay packets any time soon anyway. Raising taxes on capital, property, dividends or pension pots much more likely.
I very much doubt tax rate increases are coming to pay packets any time soon anyway.
You don't think fiscal drag is a tax increase?
And yes I know you know what fiscal drag is, but you don't seem to appear to understand or care about the impact. 3k a year more on tax is a significant hit for someone who was earning 50k in 2021 however much you think they're rich (they're not!).
Great news that the UK is on track to be one of the fastest growing major economies according to the IMF. Can't really ask for more than that unless you're from the "unlimited magic beans" school of economics.
As for A-level English, it's not A-level English it's A-level equivalent, more specifically the CEFR B2. The current standard is B1, equivalent to GCSE, so it's a step up, but not a massive one. You can find sample B2 tests online, native speakers will likely find them very easy.
Great news that the UK is on track to be one of the fastest growing major economies according to the IMF.
It's only great news if that growth benefits the population at large. Reeves has said she'll be cutting funding for public services in the next budget alongside tax rises so a double whammy despite being 'one of the fastes growing economies'. So where is the money going? (don't answer that, we all know where it's going)
earning 50k in 2021 however much you think they're rich (they're not!).
Living in a house where one of us is the other side of £50k for wages I can confirm that it made the household feel significantly richer, fiscal drag or no. Yes we can't go mad with spending but we don't have to be so careful if something breaks and needs replacing. For transparency the mortgage is paid-off, we're both the last of the Boomer generation and we could afford a tax rise. Those who are mortgaged to the hilt in the South East may not feel quite so comfortable on the same money. (Nuance again, I'll be asked to leave).
Great news that the UK is on track to be one of the fastest growing major economies according to the IMF. Can't really ask for more than that unless you're from the "unlimited magic beans" school of economics.
The fastest growing economy in the G7 was a pledge Labour made at the same time that were saying to everyone that the UK economy was totally screwed after 14 years of Tory rule and how it would take many years to recover from.
Confused? Yeah me too, apparently the economy is in great shape again after a few months thanks to Labour. Or perhaps it isn't?
What they didn't pledge though was the highest inflation rate of any G7 country
But don't tell me, let me figure this one out.....the highest growth rate in G7 is all down to Sir Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves, and the highest inflation rate in G7 has nothing to do with them. Am I right?
You can find sample B2 tests online, native speakers will likely find them very easy.
I think you might have somehow missed the fact that this "very easy" test isn't for native speakers, it is for immigrants who aren't native speakers. And for them, according to the government, it will be "tough" not very easy.
From the government's own website :
Migrants will be required to pass tough new English language requirements under a law introduced in Parliament today (14 October), as the government continues to replace Britain’s failed immigration system with one that is controlled, selective and fair.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/migrants-will-be-required-to-pass-a-level-standard-of-english
My dad first arrived to the UK at the age of 24 as a non-English speaker. He of course learnt to speak English very quickly however his English grammar remained really quite poor throughout his life, as is often the case with foreigners. It was however perfectly adequate for his needs as a UK resident.
Being as news obsessed as I am he read broadsheets from cover to cover and as a child I would sometimes ask him the meanings of words, and he certainly didn't speak in double negatives, but his grammar was quite shite. It certainly wasn't up to GCSE standard.
But don't tell me, let me figure this one out.....the highest growth rate in G7 is all down to Sir Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves, and the highest inflation rate in G7 has nothing to do with them. Am I right?
It's not our fault (again!)... 😭😭
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/15/rachel-reeves-brexit-impact-tax-and-spending-budget
Living in a house where one of us is the other side of £50k for wages I can confirm that it made the household feel significantly richer
I'm not in any way claiming a household with a 50k+ earner is poor or even normal, but it's not as well-off as many assume. Over the past 4 years that 50k earner (assuming average wage growth in that time) is paying approx 3k more in tax than they would be if the threshold had tracked inflation. I wouldn't be bothered if public services were improving and Labour were addressing the inequality problem, but they're not. Instead they're preoccupied with filling financial 'black holes' and keeping the bond market happy.
Two years of studying a language which you have spent talking every day for fifteen plus years?
Yep. And an entry requirement of a good GCSE grade.
That was then and now is now, Ernie. The government has decided on a profile of immigrant that's welcome in the current context. We're not talking refugees here, we're talking about economic migrants like me, your father (and you). If the government is going to have criteria rather than open the doors to anyone that's fine by me. However, IMO language skills aren't the best way to shut people out because the UK doesn't need linguists, it's needs medics, scientists, engineers, IT specialists, business people... rather than someone who's studied English at the Sorbonne. I think the Australian and Canadian approach of a list of professions is a better approach if the objective is boosting the economy.
If you need fruit pickers and agricultural labour then have a scheme like Australia where a visa is given on the condition that the recipient has to do whatever job is offered for six months (think mining or agricultural labour) to get a two-year stay IIRC.
Sure have a language test, but set the difficulty at a level it won't exclude the people the country needs most. I'll wait until I've seen an example of the test before approving or condemning the requirement.
That was then and now is now, Ernie. The government has decided on a profile of immigrant that's welcome in the current context. We're not talking refugees here, we're talking about economic migrants like me, your father (and you).
Yes I know that was then and now is now. Nothing has changed though with regards to foreigners who learn English as adults though. They can learn English to live perfectly adequately as residents in the UK even if their English grammar remains poor and below A-level standard. That has been the case for hundreds of years, it hasn't changed with time.
As an example my dad always seemed to think that "womens" was the plural of "woman", well you just add an "S" if there's more than one, don't you? It was very obviously a grammar failure even by GCSE standards never mind A-level standards, I don't however ever recall anyone saying "I'm sorry I haven't got a clue what you are talking about". Everyone understood his grammatically incorrect English just fine. And that would still be the case today.
And my father was most certainly not an economic migrant, nor a refugee. Nor was I as you suggest. In fact my dad was the complete opposite of a refugee, he first came to the UK to fight in a war against fascism leaving behind a perfectly safe country. And in my case I first came to the UK because my parents didn't like the Idea of leaving their six year old son in South America. There's no economic migrants or refugees in my family.
English must be a nightmare to learn as a second language. It's such a mish mash of other languages.
That said I still can't get my head around masculine and feminine in other languages when it comes to inanimate objects... How can a table be a boy and a lamp be a girl? Madness lol
I once asked for polla at a Spanish bar instead of Pollo..
So I basically said to them I want to eat some dick, rather than chicken.
So that was hilarious for everyone within earshot, hahaha!
Wait until you try learning Swedish and the 'en' and 'ett' classification for words. There is no rule´, you just have to know. Or learn.
As a side note, I have been learning Swedish since 2017, living here since 2018, speaking it at work since 2020 and I am in no way even close to being the equivalent of A level in it. Yes, I can discuss CIS controls and ISO27k1 and explain cybersecurity and skydiving to people in Swedish, but that's about it. I can't really discuss literature, or the finer points of politics, or explain medical symptoms.
A table is both a boy (German) and girl (French)
I still can't get my head around masculine and feminine in other languages
Don't worry, nor can the native speakers. Even TV presenters often make errors.
I still have trouble with le Queen Elizabeth II. Boats should be female, especially when they are queens.
It is Not easy to pass if the language test is set at A-level standard or equivalent. Unless, they make an effort to actively learn or try to learn, it will be very challenging. I find it rather hard to live in a country where I am cut off from the language. Hence, I am stuck with the only option of working and living in English speaking countries only. America - No. I rather stay at home.
Most native English speakers I know would fail miserably at English language A level.
It's kinda preposterous when you think about it.
Coffee tables... Both transexual and gender neutral at the same time.
Heheheh
I think the Australian and Canadian approach of a list of professions is a better approach if the objective is boosting the economy.
I don't want to be too provocative but surely as someone with such strong and lengthy opinions on the subject you're aware that that is exactly what already happens in the UK...?
You can find sample B2 tests online, native speakers will likely find them very easy.
I think you might have somehow missed the fact that this "very easy" test isn't for native speakers, it is for immigrants who aren't native speakers. And for them, according to the government, it will be "tough" not very easy.
Don't be silly, of course I haven't missed that. It was a response to people saying things like "most native Brits couldn't pass A-level English", as if to imply the expected standard is too high. But the requirement is actually the B2 exam, not A-level English. Native speakers would would find the B2 tests very easy and none of my non-native friends or coworkers would struggle with it at all. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation.
as if to imply the expected standard is too high.
Which seems a reasonable conclusion to me. Why is the standard of existing English test insufficient? Why force foreign speakers to speak and understand English at a level which the government describes as "tough"?
The government on their own website directly link the "tough" new English test with what they call a "failed immigration system". You would need to be particularly naive not to see that they are attempting to out-farage Nigel Farage. It is obvious that they want to be perceived as being tough on foreigners and that is the driving motive rather than a problem with the standard of the previous English test being insufficiently low.
You want us to believe that the new English test is easy and the government wants us to believe that it is tough, I can understand why the government wants to believe it is tough but I don't understand why you want us to believe it is easy.
Thank you for the list, Politecameraaction. If you read throug you'll find it confirms the criticism I made - it's not related to the needs of the British economy. It's just a classification of jobs on level of skill and then makes the low skilled jobs inilegible. It strikes me that some of the inelegible jobs have being suffering growth handicapping shortages for years 8151 - 8159 for example - exactly the type of jobs that Australia has young people doing for six months. Britain doesn't need librarians but it does need construction workers.
| 8151 | Scaffolders, stagers and riggers | Engineering construction riggers Scaffolders and stagers Scaffolders, stagers and riggers not elsewhere classified. |
Ineligible |
|---|---|---|---|
| 8152 | Road construction operatives | Road construction operatives | Ineligible |
| 8153 | Rail construction and maintenance operatives | Rail construction and maintenance operatives | Ineligible |
| 8159 | Construction operatives not elsewhere classified. | Asbestos removers Blind fitters Building maintenance operatives Cable layers Ceiling fitters Demolition operatives Drainage operatives Insulation engineers Pipe layers (excludes pipe fitters) Sign fitters (excludes electrical fitters) Construction operatives not elsewhere classified. |
Ineligible |