Forum menu
+1 for all that from @rone ^^
The (seeming) lack of any kind of plan, any sort of "right, first 3 months, first 6 months..." stuff is bewildering.
Now banging on again about Heathrow expansion, something that will be catastrophic for the environment and do sod all for growth anyway. For that sort of money you could build HS2 in full and probably a lot of NPR and had orders of magnitude more growth as well as being a net positive for the environment.
It’s no wonder the RW media is able to successfully portray non-tories as a disorganised, fractious rabble
I didn't realize that all non Tories were supposed to be organized and on the same side. When did this coalition happen?
Irony overload.
Feel free to point them out.
...AI superpower has just got pushed under the carpet with Deepseek.
Why? Deepseek is open-source and can therefore be developed
The aims of this Government are often good ones, their execution and communication is usually appalling
Interesting poll that. Shows that among the under 50's Labour is still by far the most popular choice, and while a CON-REF coalition or coalescence would approach that sort of support, a LAB-LIB coalition would smash that out of the park.
And as i said previously but seems to have gone uncommented, that's on a steady drip of negative headlines. When there is a lot to welcome - I'm surprised that the left leaners on here are not all over increased legal aid support for renters or funding to tackle homelessness for example - I wonder what the polls would say if they were being fed a stream of positive things.
I said I wasn't going to get sucked in and I'm trying not to, but I posted some articles last night for balance, I'll refrain from commenting further but would be interested to see what others think of those.
Labour are an absolute sh1t show and always have been.
I don't understand why we have such a poor cailbre and weak politicians. I don't understand why politicians are financially illiterate either.
There is literally nobody to vote for who would be beneficial to this country. How utterly sad the landscape and future is of this once great land.
Well, I deal with what's in front of me and in my area all of the funding I have was committed by the previous government and to date all I have from this lot is warm words. I've just started HR consultations about redundancies which is a far cry from the £28bn we were promised just a couple of years ago. Still, gotta get that runway built.
Meanwhile we have the most RW Labour PM in history and a rudderless government that has wasted its political capital on fights with farmers and pensioners. The naivety and lack of vision is breathtaking, and they should thank their lucky stars that the Tories are a mess.
Did I miss some sort of Damascene conversion?
No not at all, I have always believed that. Well ever since as a young lad I joined the communist party and the first thing they did was to force me to go out and canvas for the Labour Party.
In fact after many years I eventually dropped out of the CP precisely because I felt that I could no longer comply with party discipline and vote and canvas for the Labour Party under Tony Blair, and instead felt that the LibDems were the only viable social democratic party.
I continued to support the LibDems, I even canvassed for them, until Nick Clegg became their leader and they abandoned social democracy in favour of neoliberalism. At that point I saw the Green Party as the only viable social democratic party in London. Obviously there was a brief period under the previous leader when the Labour Party temporarily returned to social democracy.
I am not and never have been a social democrat, but I do however see social democracy as a vital vehicle for improving the lives of ordinary working people.Which is why I believe that politics is about compromise, flexibility, and adaptability.
Jonv.
All good but what paucity of vision. What low standards. How timid.
They have the power to do so much more. Thats my main frustration.
they should thank their lucky stars that the Tories are a mess.
I don't see why, it makes no significant difference, with the combined Tory-Reform vote at or nearing 50% unless there is a dramatic change in Labour's fortunate they will be out of office at the next general election.
Obviously things can still turnaround as the next general election is still a long way away but we are told that all the great things that Labour are currently doing in government isn't getting through to people, so it's not looking great for them.
All good but what paucity of vision. What low standards. How timid.
They have the power to do so much more. Thats my main frustration.
Is my concern. I understood not falling into a RW press trap before the election, but the lack of vision set out o far with this majority is a wasted opportunity, if not just to counter the negative news agenda.
Interesting poll that. Shows that among the under 50’s Labour is still by far the most popular choice,
Well if I have got my arithmetic correct from what I can see that poll puts under 50s support for Labour at 34.5%
But to give it context it puts combined Tory-Reform support among the under 50s at 30%
Whilst it puts support for the Greens among the under at 15.5%
And it puts the under 50 support for the LibDems at 14%
Hardly more than a third of under 50s supporting Labour is not exactly fantastic, Labour got 32% of the vote in the 2019 general election, which was considered a catastrophic disaster.
Anyway playing with numbers is fun however it isn't just the under 50s who vote in elections.
All good but what paucity of vision. What low standards. How timid.
That was evident from way before the election. The whole "vision" thing seemed to be "we're not as shit as the Tories".
Not exactly aspirational stuff. 🙄
Well if I have got my arithmetic correct from what I can see that poll puts under 50s support for Labour at 34.5%
But to give it context it puts combined Tory-Reform support among the under 50s at 30%
You haven't..... even though it makes the position worse important to note you haven't considered that there are a lot more in the 25-49 age group than 18-24. Without checking proper facts, if you assume an equal spread then 24-49 is 25 years, 18-24 is 6 so about an 80:20 weighting.
Apply that to the relative scores and it would be more like 33.5% LAB vs 34% CON-REF. Add in the older vote and yes, I think by that measure then a CON-REF alliance would be a distinct possibility.
OTOH, faced with that (and also not knowing whether Trump is going to inspire or disgust intent over here) if there was a 'risk' of a RW coalition I suspect the 'centrists' could also coalesce, in which case the LAB-LIB share would approach 50% in that age group, and 30-35 in the older.
All good but what paucity of vision. What low standards. How timid.
They have the power to do so much more. Thats my main frustration.
I could engage with something like that, hell, I'm also inclined to agee. Rather than a constant 'everything is shit' narrative.
Well, I deal with what’s in front of me and in my area all of the funding I have was committed by the previous government and to date all I have from this lot is warm words. I’ve just started HR consultations about redundancies which is a far cry from the £28bn we were promised just a couple of years ago.
£28bn - do you mind expanding on that further? I don't know who you work for but recall some Gov related sector, maybe a RI - but I can't imagine anyone being promised that much.
That was evident from way before the election. The whole “vision” thing seemed to be “we’re not as shit as the Tories”.
Not exactly aspirational stuff.
Yeah I know but when you're in a hole stop digging and all that.
you haven’t considered that there are a lot more in the 25-49 age group than 18-24.
This is very true, I hadn't.** I guess if you play around with figures for long enough you can eventually come with evidence that Labour are not in fact doing that badly in the opinion polls after all.
Or alternatively you could just accept the straightforward evidence provided by pollsters which is that the combined support for the Tory-Reform Axis is double that of Labour.
I guess it depends on whether you want to bury your head in the sand or not?
Edit ** Tbh I hadn't even realised that there are a lot more in the 25-49 age group than in the 18-24 age group.
In accusing me of 'playing around with figures to eventually come with evidence that Labour are not in fact doing that badly' you seem to have overlooked that I've actually pointed out that CON-REF are better off and LAB are doing worse than in your assessment.
guess it depends on whether you want to bury your head in the sand or not?
Not disputing what the polls say, or even whether the question is manipulative (it isn't) but I'll ponder again the effect of the steady drip of negative press on those opinions and if a more balanced reporting of all the good stuff that isn't being covered would result in a different outcome to the question.
As I said yesterday - 'group of people being constantly told everything is shit think everything is shit'
you seem to have overlooked that I’ve actually pointed out that CON-REF are better off and LAB are doing worse than in your assessment.
Yes I was aware of that. My point is that the only thing that counts is how voters vote on election day, everything else might be interesting but ultimately irrelevant chatter.
Ask binners, he is a huge believer that election results are the only thing that actually matter. Although weirdly he doesn't seem too worried about the next general election. I remember a time when he was utterly obsessed with the issue.
group of people being constantly told everything is shit think everything is shit
Hey who'd have thought fixing material conditions might result in everyone thinking things aren't shit?
Trouble is Labour are nowhere near that.
We have a headwind of both macro/micro economics being dire - and no amount of runway solutions are going to fix that.
I love how Reeves comes out with a whole load of reset energy and offers nothing of overall positive consequence to society.
Why does everyone moan about bad press for Labour - they walked into it with their absolutely awful late budget, WFA, 2cBC ignorance and free-loading attitute at a time when the country was rock-bottom. The mind boggles how stupid Starmer and Reeves are.
Labour MP Barry Gardiner tells @politicshome.bsky.social he thinks Chancellor Rachel Reeves is "an environmental illiterate" Multiple other Labour figures – including London mayor Sadiq Khan – have come out against the govt's plans for a third runway at Heathrow
Something else she's illiterate at?
I'm not sure whether the runway will even make it out of the gate so to speak - certainly not under a one term Labour government. Haven't really got a dog in this fight but would say there are million others things they could do quicker and would have a greater impact on more lives.
The mind boggles how stupid Starmer and Reeves are.
I don't think they "stupid" as such, I just think they're stuck in an economic groupthink dating back to the 80's, fixated on an an intangible measurement of "growth" in blunt economic terms rather than a much wider and more holistic understanding of the phrase and, in their absolute desperation for even the slightest % rise in GDP, they're prepared to ride roughshod over environmental concerns and worker rights, hang on to whichever band wagon happens to be driving past (AI for example) and ignore the massive Brexit-shaped elephant in the room.
What is stupid about it is they're looking at ridiculously long-term things like an airport expansion, something which cannot be done in this parliamentary time, and ignoring loads of quick win options which would actually benefit people in a short space of time and show the country that they're serious about creating growth and wealth and opportunities.
ignoring loads of quick win options which would actually benefit people in a short space of time and show the country that they’re serious about creating growth and wealth and opportunities.
cough. Customs union. cough.
Pretty sure the impact on GDP would be greater and quicker than a 3rd runway...
prepared to ride roughshod over ..... worker rights
Please explain, that's not what I'm taking from the worker rights bill? I know it's got to do consultation and development still before it's law but looks pretty pro-worker to me?
Please explain, that’s not what I’m taking from the worker rights bill? I know it’s got to do consultation and development still before it’s law but looks pretty pro-worker to me?
@theotherjonv : apologies, I meant to take that out when I edited it, I'd basically referred back to the wrong thread on Bluesky. My mistake because you're correct, the workers right thing is actually quite positive.
Never mind all that nonsense Ernestol
You mean all that opinion polls nonsense? Yeah you're right of course binners, I am sure that everything will be just fine. Why worry about Keir Starmer making Labour as unpopular as Liz Truss made the Tories? The important thing is that, like Liz Truss was, Starmer is busy making unpopular decisions, as any responsible government would
It turns out that opinion polls only actually mattered when Magic Grandad was leader, now with Keir Starmer in charge such trivialities are of no importance.
You’re obsessed with opinion polls.
It’s four and a half years to the next election. that’s like watching a footy match and if someone scores in the first ten minutes saying ‘well that’s that done and dusted then’ and not bothering to watch the rest
Ask any Spurs fan how that tends to work out 😀
Its far too early to tell how Wes Streeting will do against Chris Philp in the 2029 election
Ambitious pair, huh? And nakedly so. Both probably have too much of an eye on the media and wider public rather than their MPs and members though… I don’t see them getting hold of the reins in either party. They may successfully make themselves the journalists’ favourites in the next few years… but that’s not enough.
You’re obsessed with opinion polls.
Well you were definitely obsessed with opinion polls when Magic Grandad was Labour leader!
And in 2016 when the centrists tried to mount a coup, which you supported, because of poor opinion polls (they were better than they are now) we were still potentially 4 years away from a general election.
It was only because the centrists redoubled their efforts to sabotage the Labour leader that the Tories seized the moment and called an early general election, although it backfired and they lost their majority.
Still, I am sure that it is fine to just ignore the opinion polls..... after all what is the worse that can happen - Nigel Farage as Prime Minister in a coalition with Kemi Badenoch as his deputy?
in 2016 when the centrists tried to mount a coup
Is it 2025 yet?
You don’t half have an overactive imagination and more worryingly (for you) far more knowledge than me of the utter twoddle I post on here. I can barely remember what I was blathering on about yesterday, never mind 9 years ago 😀
cough. Customs union. cough.
Pretty sure the impact on GDP would be greater and quicker than a 3rd runway…
According to a lot of big hitters the one thing Starmer has done right is to pretend that Brexit really is quite fantastic.
Astonishing.
Well on a purely selfish note, as a scientist who lives in Milton Keynes
the resurrection of the Oxford- Cambridge Science arc project is great and long overdue, its exactly the kind of infrastructure and industrial projects we should be doing if we want to compete with the rest of the world. The original plans were the cross party work of councilors and MPs across several councils & constituencies.... until it was killed off by Boris Johnson.
as for Brexit, I want to see a move to joining the PEM if not the full customs union, be interesting to see where that goes
Apart from the London airport stuff (sorry, don’t get it) all the plans announced sound good. Burnham was doing the media rounds this morning, welcoming the Old Trafford aims, and using it to talk up transport improvements ongoing and much needed (plenty of “will be trying to persuade the government to” stuff around train links, while bigging up the integrated transport stuff already coming… combined tram&bus tickets etc).
I can barely remember what I was blathering on about yesterday, never mind 9 years ago ?
LOL! That gave me idea.......it was remarkably easy to go to the Corbyn thread and find this little beauty on page 3, it took me less than about 20 seconds :
binners
Full Member
I think it’d be a novelty to actually have a party leader who doesn’t just blindly accept the neo-liberal consensus, like its been passed down from god on tablets of stone, and actually offers an alternative. I’m so frigging bored with them all unquestioningly offering more of the same, with a different coloured tie. It’d just be nice to hear someone voice an alternative.
It seemes to have gone dowwn well north of the border last time out. I’m sure it’d go down equally as well in plenty of other places too
Listened to whatever-his-name-is who’s just been elected Lib Dem leader this morning … “blah blah blah… fiscal responsibiliy….. blah blah blah… hardworking families… blah blah blah… balancing the books….. blah blah blah… fiscal responsibiliy….. blah blah blah… hardworking families… blah blah blah… balancing the books….. blah blah blah… fiscal responsibiliy….. blah blah blah… hardworking families… blah blah blah… balancing the books…………”
Oh just **** off!!!!!
Posted 9 years ago
Reply | Report
Do you remember the days when you were an anti-centrist Corbyn supporter binners??? I certainly do!
So what happened? Oh yeah, the opinion polls.......it was all about the opinion polls! Apparently all that mattered was winning, nothing else mattered at all.
And yet now opinion polls have magically become completely unimportant!
It's a funny ol' game, ain't it?
Is it 2025 yet?
Many people welcomed a more left leaning leader of the Labour Party. I did, and it moved me to actually start considering and voting Labour (and eventually leaflet drop for them, and later join as a member). But he turned out to be an awful leader. And the country is in the hole that it is partly because of that. All eyes on the new government trying to slowly dig us out of it.
Ernesto… I did think Corbyn might make a difference, but quickly realised he was an absolute disaster. It didn’t take long, believe me Comrade, but you know what really did itI
I went to a Momentum meeting
Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans, what a collection of crackpots and weirdos they’d assembled there. I’m often reminded of that evening when I read a few of the regular posters to political threads on here 😀
While we’re having a little trip down memory Lane to 2016…
So what happened
he turned out to be a disappointment and poor leader, unable to deliver on what he promised, in 4 years time well be able to see if starmer can do any better, he's done one thing Corbyn failed to and that was win an election
£28bn – do you mind expanding on that further? I don’t know who you work for but recall some Gov related sector, maybe a RI – but I can’t imagine anyone being promised that much.
"We" as in the country. £28bn per year on green investment, ditched by Starmer around a year ago. I'm surprised Miliband hasn't resigned.
Thank you for clarifying.
Always disappointing to hear of science jobs under threat. Are you reliant on Gov money or can you access other, including private?
Its far too early to tell how Wes Streeting will do against Chris Philp in the 2029 election
Streeting has a 500 vote majority and will be lucky to hold his seat next time round.