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Labour shold be laying the blame for the UKs woes firmly where they belong when the answer is brexit. NHS short of staff. Tory brexit. Shortage of hospitality staff. Tory brexit. Gdp woes tory brexit etc etc and have the data to hand so when farage and co try to bluster they have the facts to nail them with.
Take control of the narrative. Polls show that they would be pushing at an open door
Brexit is a symptom of the problem not the cause, going back into the EU without fixing the inherent economic inequality (on both sides) would be like painting someone with jaundice pink and telling them that its cured.
I don't know if you have been watching Europe recently, Italy, the Netherlands and in the past weeks Austria have governments to the right of the tories. Macron refuses to respect the vote at the last election, demands loyalty from the left and will not offer a single concession to them. In Germany the greens in the past couple of days have actually voiced concerns over the rise of the right and its promotion by Trump and musk, the centrist parties are falling over themselves to criticise the greens and ass kiss the fascists.
You are still looking at this through the prism of 2016, a lot has changed since then, the power and money behind brexit is making the same changes across europe, political funding is destroying democracy around the world, the UK is not as unique as you seem to think it is in laying down and welcoming the shift to the right and the oligarchs in.
A functioning EU that puts its citizens first should/would/could be a great thing, but it is no longer moving in that direction, the UK has played a big part in destroying that ideal, but it isn't a just a UK problem, the disease has spread and is rotting the vital organs of democracy.
Well, back to the UK Government…. We’ve had the lack of action on the Post Office scandal and contaminated blood, the withdrawal of the winter warmth allowance, the complete let down of WASPI women, rowing back on their own non-dom policy. Now the Labour Government appear to be abandoning any climate change objectives with the proposals to expand airports - a policy that many front benchers were vocal in opposing. However, could it be planning policies that break the camel’s back? I’ve discussed before the plans for removal of local control and the proposed lack of any involvement in local democracy but the demonising of anyone with an opinion and putting them in a “nimby” box is a new low for Labour. Unless there’s a fundamental shift in Government where they actually take back control from the huge corporations and foreign, speculative, investors then the housing problems will only deepen. Threatening to override local democracy, belittling anyone with a different opinion and bulldozing through (literally) could bring this Government down. George Monbiot (who I don’t always agree with) has written a good piece in The Guardian today -
If the mantra is always growth instead of redistribution, then the environment is going to the the clear victim.
could bring this Government down
Presumably you mean Keir Starmer's government? Because with a majority of 174 we are guaranteed a Labour government for the next 4.5 years.
Before the general election I thought that Starmer probably wouldn't last much longer than about 6 months, but currently I don't see any evidence that he is in any way under threat, despite reducing Labour to Liz Truss levels of support (the Tories didn't hesitate to sack Truss when she reduced their level of support to about 25%)
There seems to be very little in terms of disquiet among the Parliamentary Labour Party. It would appear that the purge of the left, withdrawal of the Labour whip, and imposed Starmer-friendly parliamentary candidates, has worked very well for Starmer and McSweeney.
Which is all great news for the Tory-Reform Axis, they are definitely the main beneficiaries.
Yep, the Labour Party is definitely no more (some of us knew that before the election). If the Lib Dems had won would anything have been any different as I can't see them doing anything worse. The real choices for people are now a much less left wing Labour Party, a Lib Dem party the same as Labour, a more right wing tory party and Reform. Are we now the US?
Are we now the US?
The UK has always closely followed political trends in the US. The only thing that counteracted the pressure to move rightwards was the leftwing of the labout party. Starmer got rid of that with the active and enthusiastic support of c*ntrist labour members and MPs. We now have a government and political establishment which is entirely in hoc to capital, to the point where they're now seriously talking about dismantling democratic processes to enable the building of new airports and housing estates. We can't have new hospitals though, because they're too expensive. And we're going to be persecuting benefits claimants while letting non-doms off the hook. Thatcher would be proud.
I agree with you there Ernie, I perhaps mean the Starmer bit of The Government, it may be a while but when people realise that they’ll have even less input into a democratic planning process there may be a groundswell of public opinion that the Labour party can’t ignore. Yes, reform/tories will benefit at the local elections and at the next general election….. the Westminster bubble will be blamed again - a view to which unfortunately is easy to understand. The housing minister Mr Poppycock and Mr Starmer’s Government should be using their huge majority wisely, it’s probably the last hope for the good of the people who live in the UK.
A list of stuff the majority of people couldn't care less about. Of course the government are doing loads of little things they are not just sitting on their hands for 5 years.
The UK has always closely followed political trends in the US.
I am not sure that is entirely true. Ronald Reagan actually followed the example of Margret Thatcher in privatisation, deregulation, and tax cuts, the foundations of neoliberalism.
And only last year the UK swung very slightly to the left whilst in contrast the United States states swung slightly to the right.
I think it is more a case of both countries reflecting similar crises in Western economic models with perhaps similar political consequences.
Interestingly during the economic chaos of the 1930s Europe mostly swung to the right and yet the United States which was experiencing similar economic issues bucked the trend and swung to the left.
And only last year the UK swung very slightly to the left whilst in contrast the United States states swung slightly to the right.
Is that true? (genuinely ...). The US elected a more RW president and the UK a more LW PM, but wasn't that just a function of the incompetents who they were running against?
The Netherlands government is not to the right of the Tories.
After the far right won the most votes, it’s now also a powerful force in the Dutch government.
And then there’s the PVV, in particular: Marjolein Faber, the new migration minister, is already one of the most controversial people in the new Cabinet (despite being the second choice). Even PVV insiders see her as a hard-liner.
She’s most famous for referencing the “great replacement theory” in a speech — the claim promoted by the Nazis and carried forward by white supremacists that there is a conspiracy to replace Europe’s white population.
If the Tories were this right-wing there would be no point in Reform UK.
It is PVV policy to ban all immigration from Muslim countries and ban the construction of all new mosques. Show me similar policies in the Tory Party.
One part of a coalition. Not the government. Thats the difference and i am sure some of those views are available in the tory party.
The Netherlands has a cobbled together coalition some parts if which are a little to the right if the Tories. The government is not hard right overall and Wilders has been frozen out of being pm by the more moderate right in the coalition
Of course it's the government, it's not the opposition, she's the immigration minister.
Wilders has been frozen out of being pm by the more moderate right in the coalition
So what's your explanation for this ?
"Even PVV insiders see her as a hard-liner."
i am sure some of those views are available in the tory party.
It's not just "views". It is the policy of one of the parties in the Dutch government to ban the Koran, building new mosques, and immigration from Muslim countries. That is even more right-wing and extreme than Reform UK, never mind the Tories. This is BNP territory.
Until the Tories enter into a coalition with the BNP and we have BNP immigration ministers I think MSP's claim that the Dutch government is to the right of the Tories is perfectly valid.
Do you want to claim that it is to the left of the Tories?
The VVD, the other main coalition partner, are free market liberals which many would describe as a characteristic of the right of Tory Party, whilst the Christian Democrats who until recently (with their predecessors) were the dominant force in post War Dutch politics would share much in common with one nation Tories. The Christian Democrats have been almost wiped out and only have 5 seats. I would say it is more than a stretch to describe the current government as to the left of the Tories, but that is hardly a surprise. It is however wrong to suggest we lead the way with Brexit, Pim Fortuyn achieved a breakthrough in early 2000s and it was only not maintained because he was assassinated and his party became rudderless. Gert Wilders eventually took over his mantle but has none of Fortuyn's charisma.
That all sounds pretty good to me on the surface... but that doesn't get headlines and clicks.
Ernie.
Do you not understand how coalitions work? Policy of one party in a coalition is not the same as government policy
What you claim is not dutch government policy
You have a fantasy of the EU that is no more real than the gammons British fantasy of Cotswold cottages and spitfires over the white cliffs of dover.
Exactly the same things has happened in the EU over the past 10+ years as has happened in the UK. The far right has taken a strong foothold across Europe, in several countries it has become the leading political force. The parties of the traditional centre have continued to concede ground to the right instead of fighting back. Housing has become unaffordable for many/most across all the major economies, health service funding is being eroded by profiteering corporate interests, there are shortages of doctors and nurses throughout the EU, My GP in Germany has been involved in several national strikes over the past 12 months.
Any growth from re-entering the EU would not "trickle down" to 95% of the population. Remember that phrase, that we all know is absolute bullshit right wing propaganda, that when the tories were in power the centists used to post pictures of laughing tories whenever it was mentioned, that is what you are basing your fantasy of the EU being a cure for the UK ills on. Growth across the EU is not tricking down, it is inflating assets far faster than wage growth and taking ownership away from working people, that means unaffordable housing and ever decreasing pensions. And while the wallets of the wealthy swell, and the wallets of the working population become empty and threadbare the mantra of the centre is the same as the UK "who will pay for it" and that picture of laughing tories has never been more appropriate.
The biggest problem in the UK and Europe is resisting the oligarchy driven push to an even more extreme neoliberalism, and neither are resisting. Growth, private enterprise and finance, austerity have become the catch phrases of the old parties of the left who have lost their links to and abandoned the working masses to serve the financial elite. The changes to the UK over the past 10 years are not unique, they are unfortunately representative of what has happened in the whole of Europe.
I do not have a fantasy. SMEs in scotland have collapsed dince brexit. All those EU nurse we used to no longer come. Scottish hospitality is totally struggling for staff. Economic losses are huge.
Yes the EU is not perfect but leaving it has caused tremendous damage. Rejoin would mimimise that damage.
Also the rar right have made much less advances in most of the EU than in the UK
The EU is short of nurses, estimate put that shortage at around 1.2 million more needed.
How the **** do you think that the UK is going to recruited nurses from an already depleted workforce without offering materially better conditions? The UK has to fix the distribution of wealth first and make sure that working people like medical staff are paid properly for the work they do. If the conditions are so much worse in the UK than they are in the EU, then rejoining would more likely cause to more medical staff moving in the opposite direction.
And then there is of course the moral maze of stripping poorer countries of their desperately needed human resources in a vital sector, are you happy to put that morality aside?
Spain trains far more nurses than thete are jobs for in Spain They used to come to the uk in the thousands. Now they go to Germany instead.
Onstead of those spanish nurses who couldn't get jobs in Spain we are now stripping asian contries of nurses.
Honestly that post of yours is so far from the truth its in another reality
So whst about the rest of it. Greedom of movement brnefitted us hugely as upung folk came to Scotland on gsps years to eotk in hospitality. Or all thd small foid producers who lost their export markets wirh the job losses that entails
Brexit has been a social and economic disaster
Neoliberalism has become a social and economic disaster for the masses, brexit was a symptom, reversing brexit does not solve the problems, it is at best neutral to fixing the problems. SME are suffering across Europe as the power has shifted (supported by the politicians) to the big corporations and they are further eroding the restriction on big business at the cost of SME's. It is estimated that around 25000 SME's will close this year in Germany.
We need better condition for everyone, not just the continued flood up economics we are all currently suffering. We need fairer distribution of wealth not environmentally damaging growth, we need the freedom of movement to be an opportunity for all, not a mechanism for stripping poorer countries of their essential workers to feed low pay and conditions in richer countries.
Re-joining the EU would be a good thing if these problems can be fixed on both sides, but currently they are getting worse on both sides, the biggest problem is oligarchy driven neoliberal agenda, and that is becoming an emergency that far outstrips membership of the EU, that is no more tackling the emergency any better than the UK, the US or the rest of the world.
Spain trains far more nurses than thete are jobs for in Spain They used to come to the uk in the thousands. Now they go to Germany instead.
One country is training more nurses than they need, we should learn from them, but that also indicates that Germany and the rest of the EU has the same problem as the UK, that they are not making nursing an attractive enough career, maybe just maybe the answer is not to hope that other country's are suffering even worse poverty and material conditions that they are forced to move to the UK or Germany.
Teversing Brexit would solve a lot of the staffing issues in the nhs and in highland hospitality . It would bring back the markets for those small food pr6ducers. It would give us a bigger pie to share.
You have it the wrong way round. Rejoining would give an immediate large economic boost.
What MSP said.
Investment across the board would great thanks. But it needs to come from the UK at the outset.
This government has got that messed up in the pursuit of any growth at all costs and is willing to do anything bar the one thing that could begin to fix a) growth as a consequence of things that are necessary for society via spending b) the decline and inequality, and worse excesses of Neolibralism - to invest in its own capacity.
So who do we all vote for?
Not the conservatives/reform, obvioulsy.
Not labour as they are (checks notes) Conservatives?
So logic would dictate we all vote lib dem.
Well, that was nice and easy. Problem solved.
So who do we all vote for?
Not the conservatives/reform, obvioulsy.
Not labour as they are (checks notes) Conservatives?
So logic would dictate we all vote lib dem.
Well, that was nice and easy. Problem solved.
I thought the Libdems were just 'orange conservatives', though?
I think we're supposed to vote green - at least until they're significant enough to annoy the usual suspects. Then, I suppose it is the Socialist Workers Party...
So who do we all vote for?
I genuinely don't know, but as the next election is 4 years away, maybe we could actually put some pressure on labour to work for the people instead of the oligarchs and corporations, or we could just smugly deny the problem exists, repeat the oligarchs chorus that we can't afford to fix the problems, and throw in a few monty python pictures for good measure, and don't forget to attack the left as they must be responsible for the problems, as the usual suspects do.
I think we’re supposed to vote green – at least until they’re significant enough to annoy the usual suspects.
IMO you have hit the nail on the head probably more than you actually realise Danny. If there were a general election tomorrow I would back the Green Party.
Not simply because they are a leftie social democratic party similar to what Labour was before the advent of New Labour but because they have one huge redeeming quality that none of the main UK political parties share.
And that one redeeming quality is that for very obvious reasons they do not attract self-serving careerists. People like Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, and Keir Starmer, who want to further their personal careers won't touch the Green Party - there are no such thing as safe Green seats.
Obviously if and as the Green Party's popularity increases that redeeming quality is likely to diminish but currently they are still attracting people with actual convictions.
How the future pans out for them depends on how democratic in their structures remain. In contrast the Labour Party has abandoned its democratic structures and it is now custom built for self-serving careerists.
Are you an ambitious barrister who wants to broaden their horizons and enter politics? Have a quiet word with Sir Keir Starmer or one of his team at a drinks party and I am sure they will sort you out a seat somewhere where you can be parachuted in, in defiance of the local party. A lucrative Cabinet position with all the indispensable post-politics contacts you need awaits you.
Comrade Ernesto - Your idea of how you end up as a Labour candidate to become an MP is about as far detached from the reality as it’s possible to get.
Barristers going to drinks parties and getting the nod? Seriously… What planet are you on?
We selected our local candidate by the members of the local party having a meeting to listen to their pitches, then voting for which of the candidates we felt should represent the constituency. They were all people who were known as they had worked in such glamorous roles as local councillors etc
I’d love to tell you it was a stately home where we all nibbled canapés and sipped New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc but it was in a side-room at the local baths, where coffees and monster munch were available from the vending machines in the foyer if you fancied it.
You should maybe try taking off your tinfoil helmet and engaging with reality, rather than the fantasy world you appear to inhabit
Well, 2 of us have just given our versions of how Labour candidates are apparently selected.
One is based on fact and very recent experience, one based on god only knows what, as it amounts to a load of fact-free utter and complete twoddle
On the Labour side there are angry accusations that Sir Keir Starmer is parachuting in so-called Starmtroopers and "purging" left-wingers.
Labour doesn't bother with the niceties. The party's National Executive Committee will meet on Tuesday and decide who will or will not stand for the party in this election. Starmer supporters now command a majority on the NEC.
There are around 100 seats with prospective parliamentary candidates (PPCs) still in need of final approval by the NEC.
Most of these are likely to be waved through. It is rare to exclude candidates in good standing. But it is within the rules.
The handful of seats, most valued by the leadership, are those where they can parachute in their own people.
Since the general election was called 11 Labour MPs have announced they are standing down - starting with Kelly Lynch in Halifax and Yvonne Fovargue in Makerfield.
They are mostly giving up safe or highly winnable seats. Those who hold off and delay quitting until the leadership can decide who replaces them are often rewarded with peerages or other jobs outside the Commons.
Starmer and his closest advisers have wasted no time shepherding their allies into last minute vacancies.
Key members of the next generation of Labour MPs are being chosen effectively by two insiders, Morgan McSweeney, Labour’s campaign manager and Matthew Faulding, the secretary of the Parliamentary Labour Party.
Leading Starmtroopers Josh Simons, director of the Labour Together think tank and Luke Akehurst, secretary of Labour First and director of We Believe in Israel networks have been dropped into Makerfield and North Durham, respectively.
The leadership is flexing its influence over the final few outstanding constituency selections.
That's your particular experience though Binz. Do you think that situations comparible to the one Ernie outlined don't happen?
Oh hang on a minute…. I should know better than to use personal experience and actual facts on the latest thread dedicated to pointing out that Keir Starmer is in fact the antichrist
I now understand that facts are no competition for made up sensationalist claptrap, so go with that if you like
We are in the post-truth world, after all, and it appears that isn’t exclusively the reserve of the right
I'll take that as a no then
‘Starmtroopers’?
Honestly… get a grip
Have a word with Sky News, they used the term not me.
And have a word with yourself too if you believe that the main UK political parties don't attract self-serving careerists, something which goes to the very heart of voter dissatisfaction.
I don't really know the selection process for the LibDems but it is clear that both the Tories and the Labour parties are tailor made for self-serving careerists, neither have robust democratic structures.
the main UK political parties don’t attract self-serving careerists
I imagine they also attract people who genuinely want to make a difference politically so however much their ideology might be aligned with the Greens they know that unless something fundamental changes in the voting system being a green candidate is about as much use as post bombing threads on here for affecting actual change.
All main parties maintain ultimate control over their candidates, and even then wronguns slip through. If the parties allowed the local party to have complete control they wouldn't be acting very resposnibily.
I really think, as good as changing to some form of proportional representation would be, political financing is a much much bigger problem to the representation that we have.
And a question for the Starmer supporters, do you think that what labour is currently doing is enough to stop the oligarchs domination of the political landscape, as we have seen in the US, from happening here now that they have clearly set the sights on the UK and Europe?
And would you not think that the cost of doing more to help the material lives of the electorate, even if you think that would be a mistake in a more normalised political landscape, is far far better than allowing an oligarchy promoted far right party gaining power and dismantling the rather precarious democracy we have?
That’s your particular experience though Binz.
Same in my seat. In which seats did these votes of members not happen? Our new MP was also a local councillor. Went to our local secondary school. Supported by all three of the biggest UK unions. No "so-called" "Starmtroppers" being "parachuted in" to be seen amongst the candidates we heard speak at the hustings. You'd hope the party leadership does take an interest in who gets to take part in these local selections though... MPs may well represent their local party members, and their local voters, and their local community... but they also have national duties to perform, and the parliamentary party has a job to do for all us (whether we live in seats that voted Labour or not). Multiple repeats of what happened in Sheffield Hallam in 2017 has to be avoided.
Our new MP was also a local councillor. Went to our local secondary school. Supported by all three of the biggest UK unions.
That may be so but we probably both know that the only reason he was allowed to remain as candidate was because he was very careful not to criticise or question the leadership or speak against centralised labour party policy. Had he done any of that (and I believe he's a lot more 'left' than his public persona lets on) he'd have been dumped in a second in favour of some snot-nosed spad.
He spoke against "against centralised labour party policy" at the hustings. Although I'd characterise it more as "beyond" those policies.
If the parties allowed the local party to have complete control they wouldn’t be acting very resposnibily.
"Complete control" ? Did you read the Sky News article which I referenced? The issue isn't local parties not having "complete control". But then I think you probably knew that.
I'm loving the punters on here who deny that politics attracts self-serving careerists, with the vitriol which some direct at politicians on stw, and yes particularly the picture poster, who knew that everyone who enters politics does so with selfless and honourable intentions?!?
Anyway I'm sticking to my claim that the Green Party does not currently attract self-serving careerists, and instead people who overwhelmingly have strong convictions and commitments.
Btw ignore the widely believed claim that "all politicians are in it for themselves" at your peril. It might not be 100% true but to deny there is even a problem is likely to have significant electoral consequences in 2029.
Throughout the Western democracies faith in mainstream politicians is collapsing, and not without reason, the result isn't always pretty.
I'll mention Sheffield Hallam in 2017 again. The party has a duty at a national level to be involved in the long/shortlisting of local candidates. The sky "article" is mostly hyperbole about what might/could happen on the run up the last election, rather than what did. The national party system will have stopped some interesting and potentially worthy candidates from standing, for sure (I know some of them)... whether you see the filtering process that allows that to happen as necessary or a conspiracy will depend almost entirely on your feelings towards those that lead the party.
Anyway I’m sticking to my claim that the Green Party does not currently attract self-serving careerists
Wouldn’t make for much of a career really, would it?
and instead people who overwhelmingly have strong convictions and commitments.
Your inference being that other parties don’t attract those people? Which is, quite frankly, utter cobblers
You know what Ernesto? I actually feel a bit sorry for you and the rest of the little cabal of Marvin-the-Paranoid-Android style lefty doom-mongers we have on here. It can’t be much fun going through life in a constant cloud of endless gloomy, cynical miserablism?
Do you need a hug? 😀
Whilst we're being positive, here's an update from R Savage MP on her Private Members Bill (always gets a fner from me, but then I like mature debate). Anyway these PMBs rarely get parliamentary time unless they're stuff the government wants to do, given simple pressure of getting govt business through. But they do give MPs leeway to leverage which is what this one appears to be doing and Savage appears happy. Eee dear, a pragmatic lib dem
Sorry - here's the update https://www.southcotswoldlibdems.org.uk/rozsavage/an-update-on-the-climate-and-nature-bill
Your inference being that other parties don’t attract those people?
Yes that is exactly what I am saying here :
ignore the widely believed claim that “all politicians are in it for themselves” at your peril. It might not be 100% true but to deny there is even a problem is likely to have significant electoral consequences in 2029.
Stop your disingenuous nonsense. And btw I always find your patronising schoolyard insults reassuring, as I do your need to post pictures, it is a reminder that you don't do grown-up discussions because frankly you can't. 🙂
The idea that the people objecting to a very very poor Labour 'in name only' -government that has sucked up every bit of goodwill and made a mess of everything they touch - is being a doom monger...
Wonder what the growth sucking free-loading hopeless front bench have got in store next?
Probably something BlackRock or some deregulation - you know the kind of stuff centrists screamed about for years at the Tory party.
That sort of thing.
Wonder what the growth sucking free-loading hopeless front bench have got in store next?
Stop being so pessimistic rone everything is just fine, the UK economy is starting to turn round. I know that for fact because Keir Starmer said so today :
"We’re going to strip away regulation, strip away the inhibition of planning, use AI to take us forward"
Only lefty doom-mongers such as the Confederation of British Industry can't see that :
"This pessimism was widespread across the private sector."
Typical lefties eh? I think they are part of the "anti-growth coalition" which Liz Truss in her wisdom warned us about.
https://bylinetimes.com/2025/01/24/what-the-government-has-been-doing/Support for families with babies in neonatal care.made a mess of everything they touch
Support to reduce the homelessness crisis
Support for schemes to reduce women in custody
Increasing legal aid fees for immigration and housing cases
Legislation against synthetic opioids
Education freedom of speech
Protections for renters and leaseholders.......
and several others.
dismissed as
A list of stuff the majority of people couldn’t care less about.
and
sounds pretty good to me on the surface… but that doesn’t get headlines and clicks
Away from the headlines I still see competence in abundance. But you don't want to hear about that, so I'll leave that for you to pull apart.
Away from the headlines I still see competence in abundance.
The UK Prime Minister writes his own headlines, as he did today :
Keir Starmer Says UK Economy Is Starting to Turn Around
And yet this is the situation today :
When researchers from Find Out Now asked 2,380 British adults how they would vote if a general election was called tomorrow, the far-right group lead by Clacton MP Nigel Farage was narrowly ahead on 26%.
The populists were followed by the Conservatives, who were on 23%.
Labour, who have had a very tumultous first six months in government, lagged behind both on 22%
If there are so many reasons to be cheerful with the current Labour government, and yet almost half of all voters who would now vote Tory or Reform and less than a quarter who would vote Labour, then rather than an abundance of competence this must surely represent catastrophic failure....... how the hell are Labour going to win the next general election if they can't make voters understand how lucky they are??
Is it time for Keir Starmer to sack Morgan McSweeney and get someone else on the case? I am of course assuming that none of this is Keir Starmer's fault.
We selected our local candidate by the members of the local party having a meeting to listen to their pitches, then voting for which of the candidates we felt should represent the constituency. They were all people who were known as they had worked in such glamorous roles as local councillors etc
It's great to hear how one of Labour's 631 candidates was selected.
That’s the selection process. Some don’t get through to the voting stage, but those that do have to face local members and set out their stall. Members get to vote after they’ve heard all the shortlisted candidates. The same happened in my seat. I was there. Where have you heard that the process was different? Where there is sitting Labour MP it can happen differently, but this was the process for hundreds of contested seats up and down the UK.
I thought I'd heard the doom and gloom zinger before.
Boris Johnson declares war on 'gloomsters and doomsters' - 'Will prove them wrong again!'
Also - Let's deregulate to boost growth! Trump all over that one Starmer.
That’s the selection process
Except where it isn't, as you subsequently admitted. Plenty of examples here, for various reasons, where candidates were imposed by the NEC.
Poll finds that people fed a stream of negative stories conclude that things are negative.
How do you think things would differ if the papers ran 4 weeks of positive headlines like those above and then repolled?
Here's another
https://www.independent.co.uk/business/uk-business-investing-companies-rachel-reeves-b2683338.html
All that lovely inward flow creating jobs and growth. Fantastic news.
Reform will probably get a few extra points from this https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c05l9y56773o
ONS forecast on net migration pushing the population up over the next few years
It’s great to hear how one of Labour’s 631 candidates was selected.
The same as every other constituency. That's just the way it works, because that’s the way it works. If you go for facts. Them’s the rules, because there are rules. In every constituency. They don’t just make it up as they go along. It’s a democratic organisation.
But I suppose that instead you could just believe some speculative, sensationalist, made-up bullshit instead, delivered by a ‘news’ source you wouldn’t believe on any other subject, but that just suits your present narrative?
Funny how a couple of us are here saying we were involved in the process, witnessed how it works and then there’s the tinfoil helmet, conspiracy-theory brigade who haven’t actually been involved or witnessed anything but are asserting their views as facts
Who needs facts, eh? get that tinfoil helmet on and carry on….
But I suppose that instead you could just believe some speculative, sensationalist, made-up bullshit instead, delivered by a ‘news’ source you wouldn’t believe on any other subject, but that just suits your present narrative?
Yes that ^^ is exactly what it is, no candidate is ever imposed by the NEC on a local party.
If you say it often enough it becomes true.
delivered by a ‘news’ source
I love that, it has the Donald Trump "fake news" tactic written all over it. You can learn a thing or two from Donald Trump eh binners? 🙂
If you want to be a candidate to become a Labour MP then the only way you can do that is for the members of the local constituency party to vote for you to be so.
Thats just a fact
You can rail against that fact all you like, because you don’t like the outcome, but it won’t change the fact that it is a fact
You mean that they have the right to vote for every Starmer approved candidate?
It is a shame that so many Labour Party members don't have the same faith as you do that the selection process doesn't favour self-serving careerists and leadership sycophants
Labour accused of 'control-freakery' over candidate selections
Members say longlists made by NEC in case of snap election are skewed and undemocratic
Claims 'London clique' selecting Labour general election candidates
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64595772
Nine members of Labour's 13 strong Bolton North East executive say they "lack confidence in the integrity" of the party's selection process.
Starmer’s Disdain for Democracy Is Dangerous
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2024/06/starmers-disdain-for-democracy2-is-dangerous
This week, six members of Labour’s ruling NEC parachuted themselves into safe seats after conducting a purge of left-wing candidates.
Row as Labour imposes general election candidate with no Welsh connection
https://nation.cymru/news/row-as-labour-imposes-general-election-candidate-with-no-welsh-connection/
A row has erupted after the chief executive of a London-based think tank was made the general election candidate for a safe Labour seat in Wales.
All ^^ fake news no doubt ?
The same as every other constituency.
Do give it up ffs. You know perfectly well that in some cases, candidates have been imposed.
If you go for facts.
If you ignore the inconvenient ones.
We had a local popular Labour candidate black listed for being a bit left wing and some random toady parachuted in.
With the unsurprising result that the tories held on by a narrow margin.
Which seat was that?
We had a local popular Labour candidate black listed for being a bit left wing and some random toady parachuted in.
That can't be true, because the Internet nobody above says so, and he might even recycle more pictures if you don't fall into line.
Can’t really be debated without knowing who was “blacklisted”, and why, and who ended up the candidate to be the MP, and when, and how.
There absolutely were people kept of shortlists, including very good people. The review process was toughened up, and needed to be. Good people fell foul of that for sure. And there were a handful of seats where last minute replacements were not voted on… but that was out of hundreds. The vast majority of seats either had a sitting MP being reselected, or local members voted.
And there were a handful seats where last minute replacements were not voted on
Well this is terribly confusing, because our resident meme bore said:
If you want to be a candidate to become a Labour MP then the only way you can do that is for the members of the local constituency party to vote for you to be so.
Thats just a fact
That’s the case is NEARLY EVERY SEAT. The pedantry is pointless. As is this thread, again.
That’s the case is NEARLY EVERY SEAT. The pendatry is pointless. As is this thread, again.
How many cases are acceptable, btw?
The alternative is seats not having a Labour candidate on the ballot paper because time ran out. Which still happened in a few seats.
The alternative is seats not having a Labour candidate on the ballet paper because time ran out.
We're talking about the NEC choosing preferred shortlists, imposing candidates with no connection to the area, and completely coincidentally NEC members being chosen to stand. Binners is busy pretending it didn't happen, and you seem to be perfectly content with these grubby backroom deals.
The NEC are elected by party members, making them a good source of candidates where a quick selection is needed before the deadline. I don’t see it as a coincidence at all.
I’ll mention Hallum 2017 again… and the lessons learned. While it would be lovely and cosy to not have rigorous procedures,… when people vote for a possible MP wearing a party rosette, they expect that the party has done its job in vetting that candidate… not just to be suitable to be an MP, but to represent that party as well as their constituents.
Meanwhile
And we're getting close to the SR when we'll see what the true plans and outlook are (reminder on that in link, I'm still very positive at the grown-up approach even if we might not get all we've personally asked for)
Lots to be positive about, and I'm not reading a lot into polls driven by a media obsession with finding fault rather than balance.