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Have all those wealthy non-doms buggered off yet, to avoid paying their fair share? No? Thought not.
Not often I agree with Polly Toynbee!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/11/super-rich-flee-britain-labour-tax-grab-exit
the non-doms will no doubt have their bags backed ready for when it happens
No they won't. They're not here for the tax breaks, they just take advantage of them because they're there. Very few will actually follow through on threats to leave. And good riddance to those that do.
The guy who delivers my Amazon parcels
Is exactly who I'm thinking off as regards earning though hard work, paying their taxes... and IT+NI means their marginal tax rate will likely be higher than the rate people earning from asset ownership/selling will be paying in CGT.
Louise Haigh has gone up in my estimation.
No doubt she will be gone soon though as can't risk losing any investment opportunities however shitty the investors are.
Is exactly who I’m thinking off as regards earning though hard work, paying their taxes
Still could just say people who work rather than work hard as it has nasty overtones of MPs BS, or maybe that is just me.
No doubt she will be gone soon though as can’t risk losing any investment opportunities however shitty the investors are.
I doubt she'll be moved any time soon, but i can't see anything wrong with what was said about her comments, she is now a secretary of state and her words do have more meaning now when discussing this type of thing, you have to separate your work and personal beliefs in this type of role, as you're governing the entire country, not just your supporters.
I think the non-dom thing was totally over stated all ways around.
It was going to *pay for* bugger all really (estimates vary wildly) and was a weird ideological stance given these people simply paid tax where they "earned" it. I don't think it's the coup they think it is. It's been a feature of Labour campaigning for years.
Ideological through and through. Similar to the independent schools VAT. Not necessary at all but sends a certain signal out.
Labour seem to have a problem with dealing with what is most important and spend time on silly tweaks which then cause shit storms in the media but won't have a whole load of impact.
I'm hoping but still not certain that they will start to do what's right but I fear the recent headlines of spending billions will turn out to be not huge amounts. This is the one budget where they will get the crack to wipe the slate clean on massive spending before the 'how are you going to pay for to crowd turn up.'
(Incidentally if you're interested in MMT at all then Stephanie Kelton is doing an online with Ash Sarker - with probably a British slant, hopefully UK budget oriented - this Sunday.
This is more interesting than usual because the Novara crew are totally wedded to neoclassical tax and spend because of James Meadway's influence. So it's an interesting meet.)
her words do have more meaning now when discussing this type of thing, you have to separate your work and personal beliefs in this type of role, as you’re governing the entire country, not just your supporters.
Indeed. And given that her work is for a Labour government, it was great to see her standing up for workers.
that if DP / P&O are prepared to throw their toys out of the pram at this point, they were never serious about investing anyway.
Yes, if there’s still a profit for them and a return to their shareholders they’ll progress - they are a business not a wilting violet.
Its posturing - they want it and will profit from it - just dont like the slap they have been given round the face.
you have to separate your work and personal beliefs in this type of role, as you’re governing the entire country, not just your supporters.
Or you, and your party, could just show some morals/ethics - something that is all too missing generally.
Good news - the DP investment seems now to be going ahead. Almost as if the last 24h were just posturing... Oh well gave the Times and Telegraph a Saturday headline.
I'm sure the Sunday editions will be leading with this great news... Oh wait.
One of the things I pointed out a while ago which will make the whole VAT charge on independent schools a bit sketchy in terms of tax take will be the ability of the school to claim back VAT on stuff they can't now. (Thus decreasing net VAT paid and therefore tax take.)
It's in the Guardian today. I can't imagine the government has wholly factored this in as it's very difficult to know what they will claim back.
Tax for revenue is inherently flawed on every level. Which is not what it's designed for of course. But if you frame it that way you will lose to creative accountancy.
It will vary depending on the size of the school which where the Guardian's focus is.
Obviously I don't know the complexities of the accounts of schools but I can imagine this to blow up somewhere.
The first opinion poll since March 2022 which hasn't given Labour a lead over the Tories:
https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1845359983107486155
A lot can happen over the next five years but at the present a Tory-Reform coalition government in 2029 is a distinct possibility.
I would drop the hard work and just replace with work. Why does everyone think that people who earn a lot have worked hard, especially any harder than people who don’t earn much. The guy who delivers my Amazon parcels works harder than me, I was just a LOT luckier than he was…
Yep in my experience, those that work the hardest earn the least.
Now we really can see the folly of Brexit being brought to the fore.
Labour have convened a global investment jamboree where, despite what they'd like you to believe, the basic tenor is the UK flashing a bit of thigh and seeing who fancies a bit.
The CEO of Eli Lilly has been pretty blunt, though. He's said that small markets like the UK have to deregulate further than blocs with economies of scale and clout - like the EU.
Boom! There you have it.
What these big cheeses are going to say, in lots of presentations, slide decks (yuck) etc is basically the same. "Trousers round ankles and bend over. You can whistle Land of Hope and Glory if you like, but the outcome will be the same".
Labour will continue to try to paint capitulation as innovation, but it's bollocks.
Still, blue passports, eh?
Have all those wealthy non-doms buggered off yet, to avoid paying their fair share? No? Thought not.
The super-rich left Norway in 2022 and it resulted in a 40% reduction in revenue from that sector, rather than the $150mn pa extra that it was projected to earn
Its posturing – they want it and will profit from it – just dont like the slap they have been given round the face.
What we don't know is what had to be gifted to make up for the slap. The Government won't say how close they came to losing the deal
Trade Secretary Jonathan Reynolds was asked how close the government came to losing the £1bn commitment in the London Gateway port.
Mr Reynolds said: "Look, we've had to have a conversation following some of the press reports." https://news.sky.com/story/government-had-conversation-with-pando-ferries-owner-after-ministers-criticism-put-1bn-investment-under-review-13232803
Labour said that they'd "stop the boats", the manifesto's been withdrawn to clarify that it didn't include P&O 🙂
Companies will try and make more out of this than there is, simply to increase their profits, it's a black and white argument, no company will withdraw from the UK, or not invest in their infrastructure if there is profit to be made, plain and simple. If the likes of P&O want to make a song and dance about it, then that's when the government should stand fast and then watch competitors see an opening for gains.
The super-rich left Norway in 2022 and it resulted in a 40% reduction in revenue from that sector
It's not just about tax revenue. it's about fairness and principle. It sends a signal to the voters that the govt is on their side and that their interests are just as important as those of billionaires.
It sends a signal to the voters that the govt is on their side and that their interests are just as important as those of billionaires.
That's working well according to the polls...
Labour have convened a global investment jamboree where, despite what they’d like you to believe, the basic tenor is the UK flashing a bit of thigh and seeing who fancies a bit.
This is really just the same Tory-lite bollocks that's been tried (and failed) on several occasions from Cameron, via the stupidity of Brexit and then again with Sunak...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e9yk24w3eo
Every bit of red tape for one person is someone else's protection against fraud, rights abuses, environmental damage, the list is endless. Just seems to be a clarion cry of any Government - "we'll cut red tape!" and "bonfire of the quangos!"
I mean, I didn't have particularly high hopes given that most of the election run-up was "we're not quite as shit as the Tories"; there's been some pretty positive stuff (from DfT / Louise Haigh in particular) but it's undermined by the sheer stupidity of "we'll try what the Tories tried and failed at, we'll give that another go cos we must be able to make it work..."
resulted in a 40% reduction in revenue from that sector
40% of how much and which sector? 40% of £10 I can fund but 40% of £1 trillion would be a stretch (both sofas would need checking).
Scaremongering ill-defined sums have no place in finance, your point is poorly made as a result.
That’s working well according to the polls…
They haven't signalled anything much other than "more of the same" yet, which is causing the negative impact in the polls. Is that what you mean?
Scaremongering ill-defined sums have no place in finance, your point is poorly made as a result.
It's not scaremongering, it's nonsensical finance with our budgetary "blackhole".
Norway collected around $1.5bn in revenue, which dropped by $600mn when the rules changed. The government of the day projected a $150mn additional revenue had the super-rich stayed
From a finance POV you then have to translate their experience into UK finances and UK super-rich psychology; who knows what that will look like in £££?
They haven’t signalled anything much other than “more of the same” yet, which is causing the negative impact in the polls. Is that what you mean?
We'll see what the future brings.
If the UK follows Norway's pattern ^^ then offset that by hammering the estimated 35-40% of pensioners who don't claim pension credits further into fuel poverty then it isn't a good look for "fairness and principle".
The private schools VAT thing has the potential to go badly wrong on grounds of "fairness and principle" as well. If parents can't pay then that will increase burdens on the state sector and competition for places at the better-rated state schools
The Government isn't polling well and that will continue
FWIW I don't think that the mass hysteria about private schools claiming 10 years of VAT back when they become VAT-registered is an issue because they will have used other rules in place for institutions with charitable status to already have made those claims
Norway collected around $1.5bn in revenue, which dropped by $600mn when the rules changed. The government of the day projected a $150mn additional revenue had the super-rich stayed
So (and this gives me a frisson) a rounding error when set against the "income" (used for brevity not accuracy) from petrochemicals, their sovereign fund and the rest of their economy.
The super-rich left Norway in 2022 and it resulted in a 40% reduction in revenue from that sector, rather than the $150mn pa extra that it was projected to earn
I'm not sure you can fairly compare the two countries. Norway, unlike the UK, already had a wealth tax and increased it modestly. It's a high tax economy without a global financial centre. The idea that the super rich would uproot themselves and their families from London is lacking evidence.
Every bit of red tape for one person is someone else’s protection against fraud, rights abuses, environmental damage, the list is endless. Just seems to be a clarion cry of any Government – “we’ll cut red tape!” and “bonfire of the quangos!”
You mean like this?
The Grenfell protesters are right. Red tape saves lives
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/18/red-tape-political-grenfell-fire-telegraph
Just seems to be a clarion cry of any Government
I thought it was just the clarion cry of right-wing governments.
So (and this gives me a frisson) a rounding error when set against the “income” (used for brevity not accuracy) from petrochemicals, their sovereign fund and the rest of their economy.
I did say, "who knows what that will look like in £££?"
We'll have to see what happens... 😉
The UK doesn't need money from the wealthy.
Taxation is to control their wealth not to access money to be spent by the Government.
Losing some rich people is not a problem. The sterling doesn't just disappear.
Taxation as a form of revenue solves nothing. No one dare tax them enough for it to make a substanial difference to what we spend.
This is why we are where we are.
FWIW I don’t think that the mass hysteria about private schools claiming 10 years of VAT back when they become VAT-registered is an issue because they will have used other rules in place for institutions with charitable status to already have made those claims
I can say with 2nd hand experience many indepedent schools don't know their arse from their elbows when it comes to VAT rules.
However I still don't think back-claiming VAT will have been factored in if by way of example the calculations for non-dom revenue are to believed. Currenty Labour has a really shoddy time with accountancy and projections.
The Tax-revenue-balance model doesn't yield results as evidenced by austerity, black-holes and other anomalies. We need to spend more than we take to make a difference. There is no getting away from it and is Reeves' biggest mistake.
The Rich are currently sat on the biggest pile of deficit spending - interest from income paid out of the same account/overdraft for government spending - the Consolidated Fund at the BoE.
If the stuff about the well off fleeing high tax was true then you'd expect the US state with the highest taxes to have the lowest proportion of millionaires, no? Cos it'd be super easy to move across to another state, so obviously they'd all do that to avoid the higher taxes.
But in reality the US state with the highest taxes - California - not only does not have the lowest proportion of millionaires, but actually has the highest. There must be something about the good living and fine business available in California that makes those people think it's worth paying the extra tax for?
Just like trying to appease racists by adopting racist policy ends up with more racism being demanded, no matter how much the super wealthy horde they will always demand more. Billionaires by definition have far far more than everyone, they are feeding off the rest of our life's, but it still isn't enough for them, they could afford a thousand lifetimes of lavish excess and they will still demand more, they will cheat your granny out of her savings, brake any employment law they wish to ignore, devalue their employees and even in a global pandemic steal from everyone, they don't care who dies as long as they are "winning".
Donald Trump once famously said it wasn't worth his time to pick up a hundred dollar bill from the street, but I bet if he saw someone else try to pick it up he would stamp on their hand and try and steal it, because depriving someone else so he can become richer is what these scumbags feed their egos with.
These are the people who are destroying our society, their greed and narcissism has no limits and if governments keep pandering to them they will take everything.
Or we could just apply to join the EU...
These are the people who are destroying our society, their greed and narcissism has no limits and if governments keep pandering to them they will take everything.
So you're not a fan of the rich i take it?
So you’re not a fan of the rich i take it?
We should really try to see past the illness to the humans suffering it and creating all that pain and misery in everyone affected by their depravity. Dehumanising the sick is deeply unhelpful when instead we should be treating the condition and rehabilitating the super rich so they can contribute to society instead of wreaking havoc by indulging their addictions.
Interesting inflation figures this morning. Admittedly mostly due to deflation in fuel prices but it looks like those of us who said the BoE were completely over-egging interest rate rises were right and deflation beckons. That's going to cause Starmer and Reeves a whole bunch of new headaches.
A deflating economy means deflating economic growth.
Also the public will expect to see lower prices and the cost of living improving in their favour. If that doesn't happen (which is likely) then Labour will take the flak for that.
"Deflation" isn't about to happen. And nor is "deflating economic growth". Inflation is stabilising (and will rise again a bit this winter), but that lower more predictable inflation (and interest rates) isn't a headache for the government in the slightest, it gives them room to spend more (both investment and public wage bill increases).
“Deflation” isn’t about to happen.
How do you know? I'm not saying the reduction in inflation is a bad thing, clearly it's not but the danger of deflation is there. Probably won't happen cos they'll slash interest rates to prevent it but again it shows that the BoE should never have hiked them up in the first place. My mortgage is now fixed at around £400/month more than it was before along with lots of other people so forgive me if I don't get too excited as the damage is already done.
Bet you a pint that inflation doesn't become negative. At any point in this parliament. Make it a strong one.
My mortgage went up as well, and is staying there for a few years. Not really down to the BofE, or this government.
No it won't because they'll take drastic action to avoid it. I think the hundreds of thousands stuck on high mortgage rates will be entitled to ask why they had to go up so much in the the first place.
Ask anyone who'll still admit to backing Truss' "don't look before you jump" budget.
My mortgage went up as well, and is staying there for a few years. Not really down to the BofE, or this government.
It's totally do with the lender / BoE and government.
The government / BoE are the price level setters. What else could it be?
Current interest rates were well on there way up before the Truss budget. There is nothing that says absolutely that interest rates should go up or down other than a group of people saying it should, because they believe it to be so.
Interest rate across the world (save Japan - who didn't blindly follow this rubbish and kept inflation in check) - went up, this wasn't down to Truss - it's down to a belief rather than a model.
The UK government can over-rule the BoE any time it wants to. Pretending they can't do anything is a lie.
(Worth remembering in this debate - inflation isn't CPI necessarily. And everyone will experience inflation in different ways.)
The government can do anything it wants... but there are consequences.
Presumably the pressure on oil prices with Israel sabre rattling at Iran will hit next month's inflation figures?
Rates are not high they are perfectly normal.
Money doesn't grow on trees.
(Worth remembering in this debate – inflation isn’t CPI necessarily. And everyone will experience inflation in different ways.)
Also worth noting that slapping 5p back on fuel duty would directly counter the falling fuel prices.
And oil prices have gone up again.
The UK government can over-rule the BoE any time it wants to. Pretending they can’t do anything is a lie.
By the same argument Charlie sets interest rates. In theory yes, in practice they've been given a degree of independence. Even in an MMT world and without a quasi-independent central bank, you'd still have to balance government spending with interest rates to control inflation. In that sense both Truss and the most frivolous socialist* are two sides of the same coin, an imbalance in government spending catalyzed** high interest rates. Interest rates would not be independent regardless of the mechanism.
*assuming spending goes up but tax doesn't
**it's always a stretch to imply direct causation when it was a multifaceted worldwide problem, but we could probably have not made it an apocalyptical financial cliff edge.
Ministers complain to Starmer over spending cuts
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0r8e421y5po
There has been considerable Cabinet disquiet about the spending cuts required to meet the Treasury’s proposed spending limit.
Danny Shaw, a commentator on justice and policing affairs, who has previously advised the Home Secretary Yvette Cooper, said cuts of that order would be "devastating" for the justice department.
"It would completely destroy in many ways the criminal justice system in terms of the courts, probation, prisons and legal aid," he said.
I believe that the standard centrist response to that sort of criticism is......."Would you rather have a Tory government?"
There’s nothing left to cut that comes under the Ministry of Justice… it’s all financially **** already.
It's a nightmare, my mate is a witness in a potential attempted murder trial...
Basically one of his neighbours who was already known as a bit of a nutter, smacked another of his neigbours round the head with a crowbar/some sort of metal bar because he didnt like where he parked his car...
Guy was sparked out, hospitalised, but no lasting damage from what I'm told.
It's been going on for 2 years now, and the trial has just been delayed again, as according to the defence, the person who got whacked cant be 100% it was that guy that hit him, (as he was concussed) and his injury may have been sustained not as a result of being hit round the head with a metal bar, but he may have fallen over and hit his head on the floor regardless of the attack.
This is despite the fact that there are witnesess, my friend and one other, (but they didn't see the attack first hand, they came out of thier houses to see what all the ruckus was about) and immediatley knew exactly what happened...
...and the police have recovered the crowbar with the victims blood on it, and said metal bar was recovered from the house of the assailent, with his DNA all over it...
trail delayed for another 6 months now..... it's an absolute joke...
Net resut so far:
A) Victim with no justice
B) A complete nutter still free to cause havock
Legal system totally fubar'd by 14 years of intentional destruction.
instead of fringe ones
Does "fringe" now mean 44% of the public?
"44% believe that Reeves is doing a bad job as Chancellor. This is identical to the percentage that thought former Chancellor Jeremy Hunt was doing a bad job at the last budget in March 2024."
So much in common.
happy with middle of the road policies
You know the problem with being in the middle of the road don't you? Yup, it's not a very safe place to be.
There is no way Justice can take a 20% cut, the minister will need to walk out if asked to make that kind of cut. The alternative is to fail to achieve the reductions AND embed damage in a system that desperately needs repairing while trying.
Even in an MMT world and without a quasi-independent central bank, you’d still have to balance government spending with interest rates to control inflation
Taxation is the main brake for inflation.
Interest rates do not react in the way central banks think they do to control inflation. As I've been saying for ages higher interest rates are partly inflationary as they add more money to the economy to people with money. This has almost certainly driven asset prices.
(Below I put this up recently before it was published.)
Some discussion about UK black-hole balls and why framing taxation for spending never works politically.
Apologies if you've watched it. It was a decent watch and questions are from the UK based Ash Sarker.
Legal system totally fubar’d by 14 years of intentional destruction.
Its not all bad.
If you have the cash/infrastructure up front to arrange for a private prosecution you can not only skip the queue but then recover your costs from the taxpayer.
Hence why private prosecutions are a booming segment of the legal system.
Now thats a proper two tier legal system. At least though we can feel safe there wont be any miscarriages of justice with private prosecutions though since no history of dubious prosecutions.
Can we at least get some Richard Murphy, Stephanie Kelton is just sooo 2023
ernielynch
“44% believe that Reeves is doing a bad job as Chancellor. This is identical to the percentage that thought former Chancellor Jeremy Hunt was doing a bad job at the last budget in March 2024.”
Belief and perception will certainly be important at the next GE but belief isn't tangible in other ways. If her and the governments policies are effective over the next 5 years, beliefs will change.
The recent poll you posted with the Tories only 1 point behind Labour shows just how incredibly short the collective populous memory is. A couple of bad headlines in the Mail and, "the Tories weren't that bad actually after all, were they?" Pretty incredible and more than a little disheartening really.
To quote a wise man, "You can't trust people, Jez."
Virtually no one's lives have changed for better or worse since the election result, which again shows how ephemeral and lacking in basis believes actually are.
I'm no fan of Reeves but I'll give her a chance to bugger things up before I cast actual judgment. 🙂
The recent poll you posted with the Tories only 1 point behind Labour shows just how incredibly short the collective populous memory is.
I have posted a more recent one which actually shows Labour and the Tories tie! It was the first one in about two and a half years that didn't give Labour a lead over the Tories. It's not that popularity for the Tories has increased, it's that Labour's popularity has fallen.
And dissatisfaction with the current Labour Chancellor isn't simply because people have short memories, why do think that apparently a lot of Labour ministers have expressed serious concerns with regards to Rachel Reeves? It obviously isn't because they have forgotten about Jeremy Hunt.
And dissatisfaction with the current Labour Chancellor isn’t simply because people have short memories, why do think that apparently a lot of Labour ministers have expressed serious concerns with regards to Rachel Reeves? It obviously isn’t because they have forgotten about Jeremy Hunt.
I'm willing to bet that most people HAVE forgotten Jeremy Hunt. Probably including Jeremy Hunt!
Out of Government, out of the media, out of mind. I bet the average person in the street can just about remember that Sunak was the previous PM; as to the previous Cabinet, they won't have a clue.
Reeves I kind of have some sympathy for. She's inherited a total ****-up, no doubt about it. You can't come into the tail end of 14 years of corruption and ineptitude (with the final 2 years actively ending in a scorched earth policy) and NOT end up inheriting a total ****-up!
I just think there are better ways of plugging this alleged £22bn black hole.
It's strange cos on the one hand there's actually some reasonably positive stuff coming from certain parts of Government. And then it's usually offset by another own goal from some other corner of Government...
And dissatisfaction with the current Labour Chancellor isn’t simply because people have short memories, why do think that apparently a lot of Labour ministers have expressed serious concerns with regards to Rachel Reeves?
Every ****ing year ministers kick off ahead of the budget to appear to try and protect their departments budgets.
This isn't a Labour/Reeves problem, it's part of the annual kite flying ritual.
I’m willing to bet that most people HAVE forgotten Jeremy Hunt.
I doubt that Labour ministers complaining to Starmer over spending cuts have forgotten about Jeremy Hunt. Do you believe that they are more clueless than the average punter on this thread?
Did you read the article - is that your explanation to why they are complaining?
Every **** year ministers kick off ahead of the budget to appear to try and protect their departments budgets.
This isn’t a Labour/Reeves problem, it’s part of the annual kite flying ritual.
I am assuming that you didn't read the article. The third paragraph:
In what some say is an unusual move, ministers from hard-pressed departments are calling for a last-minute rethink of the Budget, “going over the head” over the chancellor, to address the prime minister directly.
The recent poll you posted with the Tories only 1 point behind Labour shows just how incredibly short the collective populous memory is. A couple of bad headlines in the Mail and, “the Tories weren’t that bad actually after all, were they?” Pretty incredible and more than a little disheartening really.
Yes, I said that way before the election. People soon forget - the only thing that matters to them is how well they think they personally are doing so things need to change a lot for them to think Labour are any better. A lot of people are not as interested in politics as posters on this thread and don't really care who ministers are or what shit they say, they just care about what actually happens to their lives. That is why 'tackling' things such as WFA was such a stupid thing to do as it affects people negatively and for very little gain to anything else, people will remember that and more importantly be reminded of it in years to come.
If you spend loads of money on NHS and for example appointment times come down by average of 5 days most people won't actually notice so Labour are up against it in 5 years time when people ask what the point of Labour was and go back to the good old tory party that this country seems to prefer for many reasons.
That is why some of us wanted Labour to be a lot more ambitious and progressive - not only because we feel that is better for society but also for future chances of winning elections based on the fact they actually improved things noticeably.
Legal system totally fubar’d by 14 years of intentional destruction.
That isn't the whole story, the MoJ has announced a cap of 105,000 on days that the Crown Court will sit for this year. It had been uncapped under the Conservatives for the last four years following covid. In practice "uncapped" was around 107,000 days per year.
The MoJ was predicting 64000 outstanding cases by the end of this financial year (March 2025), so reducing sitting days is unexpected
Barristers rates of pay haven't been tackled by either the previous government or this one, despite it being an issue for a few years
In what some say is an unusual move, ministers from hard-pressed departments are calling for a last-minute rethink of the Budget, “going over the head” over the chancellor, to address the prime minister directly.
I did read the article and I call bollocks. It happens every year, it's reported every year. Just more prominently depending on the paper/government.
As above, ministers are always requested to provide potential reductions prior to any budget, ministers will also openly complain about this, as it's a big bunfight where they want their department to do well out of it.
Up until the actual budget, it's usually all a mystery to what will happen, because the treasury are requesting a lot of data from each department in isolation, and it's the treasury who will come up with several options, and the chancellor and her team who will approve at the end.
As for Reeves ratings, this is governing, not a popularity contest, no government cares that much about making unpopular decisions unless it's within a year of an election, as they're over 4 years away, i doubt it's keeping them up at night that the Mail or Guardian reaaders aren't fans.
I did read the article and I call bollocks.
Ah, the BBC's usual anti-Labour tricks no doubt?
Although I reckon that the BBC's neutrality is a tad more convincing in this particularly instance than yours.
There is nothing "normal" about the Deputy Prime Minister leading a Cabinet revolt against the Chancellor of the Exchequer, let alone to expect it to be something which happens every year:
Angela Rayner leads Cabinet revolt against Reeves’ ‘huge’ Budget cuts
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/reeves-keir-starmer-chancellor-budget-b2630710.html
The only reasonable comparison that can be made is with Tory disunity of the last 5 years, which is hardly a good benchmark and one that cost the Tories very dearly in electoral terms - UK voters famously do not like disunity in political parties.
But let's pretend everything is just fine, eh?
So the Independent is part of this anti-Labour media conspiracy too?
Well listen if Cabinet ministers sending formal letters to the Prime Minister complaining about the Chancellor of the Exchequer is perfectly normal, and happens every year, how about providing an example of when that has previously happened under a Labour government?
It should be extremely easily to provide a link. Any link. Even one in which involves a Tory government, if you can't find one involving a Labour government.
So the Independent is part of this anti-Labour media conspiracy too?
How'd you leap to that conclusion?
The Independent, like every other newspaper just wants to sell copy. It'll use headline to do that, hell, they'll spin things just as hard as politicians do. I'd be willing to bet money that senior ministers have been asked to write to chancellor to justify why the Ministry of Paperclips should be excluded from any swingeing cuts that Reeves (or in reality the treasury since the dawn of time) have got planned for them.
I just think there are better ways of plugging this alleged £22bn black hole.
The problem is they've put themselves in a straitjacket by promising to 'reduce' debt and live within their means. A labour govt is primarily elected by the voters to spend money on things which the tories won't. Stuff like hospitals, schools, roads, railways, public sector wages and more generous benefits. The reason labour are tanking at the polls is because the electorate have figured out that they might as well have elected the real tories rather than the fake ones.
If labout want to be re-elected in 4 years they need to forget about 'balancing the books' and start spending money. It's classic Keynesian stuff even without any MMT-related arguments.
The problem is they’ve put themselves in a straitjacket by promising to ‘reduce’ debt and live within their means.
Same as every chancellor has promised since forever. I'll bet that Reeves reducing the 'bung' that the BoE is paying out 5% interest on bank reserves of 700bn - saves 35bn and will announce it at Budget and no one but the commercial banks will pay attention to it at all. Why is Reeves playing it like she is? To my mind you just need take a look at how things went for Truss/Kwarteng's mini-budget when they didn't do the ground-work at all.
How’d you leap to that conclusion?
Because you categorize the term 'revolt' used by the Independent as 'hyperbole', despite the fact that it is a perfectly reasonable term to use in a political context and you obviously would have no problem at all if it was used to describe developments in a Tory Cabinet.
And no, the Independent does not sell newspapers by misinforming their readers concerning the severity of a Labour Cabinet crisis. In fact I would say the complete opposite is true, ie, their readers will expect a fair assessment from the Independent, unlike Tory leaning newspapers