Forum menu
If the EU is so great why are it’s people voting for nazis everywhere,
Right back at you with GB and reform(who are as right wing as those euro parties).
If the EU is so great why are it’s people voting for nazis everywhere,
Ignorance, stupidity, hate and fear. Well you did ask
The EU is not so great - it has many problems and many failures but it is still better to be in it than out of it.
The individual countries have just as many stupid people who will vote for right wing parties as the UK does.
Richard Murphy did a YouTUbe video a few days ago on why the far right are appealing to people which I thought summed it up well but basically the other parties are not offering/actually making lives better for many people and some of those are sold the far right answer as the solutions as they are the only solutions they are being offered.
If the EU is so great why are it’s people voting for nazis everywhere,
Discontent and easy answers.
I always find it weird that in the U.K. the people who would bang on about the war are now so keen on reform and leaving the ECHR.
The fact we have main stream politicians pushing on leaving it is disconcerting.
and some of those are sold the far right answer as the solutions as they are the only solutions they are being offered
One reason is the insane amount of air-time Farage and his ilk get on national television versus the likes of the Greens etc.
The fact we have main stream politicians pushing on leaving it is disconcerting
Because they now have to serve their masters. If Murdoch (and other foreign owned right wing media owners) say jump, sir Keith’s only question is ‘how high’.
The EU is not so great
It's ace, and even better now the UK has demonstrated just how good being a part of it is and how shit leaving is.
Go on Kerley, list all those failures in your head and ask yourself why the UK manages to fail at so many levels without being in the EU. Sure there are constraints on members, necessary constraints and everybody has to play by the rules, but before you list the failures consider how many you attribute to the EU were really provoked by the nations themselves who then blamed the EU.
One reason is the insane amount of air-time Farage and his ilk get on national television versus the likes of the Greens etc.
This. Very much this. If we had a bit less air-time given to the hate-mongers and division makers, maybe we could have some adult conversations about the issues facing the country.
The original question was regarding the EU countries moving towards the right, so unfortunately, this time, we can't blame Farage.
I've fully understood, Kerley. I have a reading age over 10 and fully understand the words "failures" and "not so great". If it's not so great and full of failure why would you be better in than out?
It's your kind of negative attitude that got Brexit. The constant negative reporting, the it's not great but we neeed to be in all the same that got Brexit. Those nasty Europeans meddling etc. Well they were meddling in your interest, giving your safge drinking water, swimable beaches, healthy food, a safe working environment. The only people it wasn't great for were the polluting, poisoning, tax dodging, exploiting, poisoning, ripping off; human rights denying... .
I agree with the far right favouring media bias noted by some here. I only watch two UK TV channels occasionally, Sky News and the Beeb. Both giving far too much air time to the far right whilst paying lip service to and often deriding the Greens whilst diluting their message. They almost always add "might", "possibly", "may be" when talking about climate change when every objective measure and indicator says "is".
£100,000 portrait of a Tory
WTAF. Could have knocked one up in photoshop and printed it on canvas for £20. Did he pay for that with the gold he sold off ?
So the across the board political backlash for the sake of 1.4bn continues.
This has got to be one of the most stupid and economically inept moves by a new government ever. We are talking sub-Tory levels of schooling here.
(Reminder the UK government issues and spends 1.2 trillion a year.)
For all the stick that Reeves and Starmer have created- there is no economic argument or political argument that this treatment of the WFA can offer other than they are both ridiculous people.
Imagine starting your crusade with this - not least because you want growth and you're about to remove 1.4bn out of the economy too.
And whilst all this is happening your Chancellor courts the failed trickle-down model from senior bankers.
This government are setting up Labour never to return unless they drastically change tact.
I will give them one thing Reeves is at least doing what she says she was going to do. No powder on her nose.
It’s your kind of negative attitude that got Brexit. The constant negative reporting, the it’s not great but we neeed to be in all the same that got Brexit. Those nasty Europeans meddling etc. Well they were meddling in your interest, giving your safge drinking water, swimable beaches, healthy food, a safe working environment. The only people it wasn’t great for were the polluting, poisoning, tax dodging, exploiting, poisoning, ripping off; human rights denying
Whatever
This has got to be one of the most stupid and economically inept moves by a new government ever. We are talking sub-Tory levels of schooling here.
Pretty sure nobody can use the excuse of "they haven't been in long enough yet" on this one...
there is no economic argument or political argument that this treatment of the WFA
We have been making things worse for people starting out in life while looking after well to do older folk this century. Most people eligible for the WFA absolutely did not need it. Many I know gave it to charities such as food banks, and good on them.
Yeah, i know a few who use it as a treat to partially pay for stuff like winter trips, golf clubs, etc!
There does need to be a rethink though, to make sure there's something in there to catch those who really do need it, but an arbitrary payment is hard to turn into a specific payment unfortunately, especially if there are over 10 million claimants usually!
More good news on the UK economy :
UK’s momentum remains ‘healthy’ ahead of latest GDP figures
New figures are expected to show that the economy’s surprisingly strong start to 2024 will continue into the second half of the year in a boost for Keir Starmer’s Labour government.
And although Labour have been in government for only 2 months Starmer has already achieved his pledge to make the UK economy the fastest growing economy in the G7
"The UK was the fastest growing economy in the G7 in the first half of the year, surprising many pundits who had expected another yet of relative stagnation"
That's what I call delivering!
More good news :
Labour to give English local authorities power to run bus services
IME in South London bus services are excellent but I am aware that isn't necessarily the case throughout all of England. More democratic control over vital services which contribute to the basic human need of travel must be a positive step forward.
“The UK was the fastest growing economy in the G7 in the first half of the year, surprising many pundits who had expected another yet of relative stagnation”
Errm, the election was half way through the year 😉 also, it's probably more coincidence than anything;
It's easy to be fastest growing/best performing when you are at rock bottom, not so much when you are already doing well as you have less headroom for improvement.
It’s easy to be fastest growing/best performing when you are at rock bottom, not so much when you are already doing well as you have less headroom for improvement.
What on earth are you talking about......it is easy to be fastest growing economy in the G7 when you are doing badly?
So I take it that you were not impressed with Keir Starmer's key election pledge to make the UK the fastest growing economy in the G7?
I don't recall you dismissing that stated Labour goal at the time.
but an arbitrary payment is hard to turn into a specific payment unfortunately, especially if there are over 10 million claimants usually!
True, but there are already two different forms of pension credit to catch those on low incomes... increase those, or the eligibility for those... it's not like there are not already ways to target payments. When the WFA came in it was a good way to quickly insert money into the pockets of pensioners to keep the heating on... a smart emergency move... even if not well targeted. It should have never have hung around in its current form so long... but... you know... pensioners are numerous and keen to vote.
And although Labour have been in government for only 2 months Starmer has already achieved his pledge to make the UK economy the fastest growing economy in the G7
I don't think this government have achieved anything much economically so far. Come back a year after their first budget and then it's worth commenting on.
More democratic control over vital services which contribute to the basic human need of travel must be a positive step forward.
Agree with this 100%, and the work Labour Mayors have put in to help make sure we're pushing that way... has to be applauded.
What on earth are you talking about……it is easy to be fastest growing economy in the G7 when you are doing badly?
So I take it that you were not impressed with Keir Starmer’s key election pledge to make the UK the fastest growing economy in the G7?
I don’t recall you dismissing that stated Labour goal at the time.
Maybe I didnt make my point very well. Maybe an analogy...think of the economy as an engine, an old knackered inefficient engine.
Now it's easy to make huge gains as you can change the oil, use better fuel, replace the carb with fuel injectors etc. and make huge gains from where you were.
You could make it say 50% better pretty easily.
Now let's take a different engine, one that is brand new, highly tuned and highly ecomomical, you'd struggle to improve it by 5%, nevermind 50%.
So 'fastest growing' in an isolated context, whilst great, doesn't mean good compared to other engines, or even competetive.
So ‘fastest growing’ in an isolated context, whilst great, doesn’t mean good compared to other engines, or even competetive.
Er, it definitely wasn't "in an isolated context"! The context was very clear...... the fastest G7 economy. So in the context of how another of the 6 most advanced economies in the world were/are performing then.
I agree that it is all relative though - relative to how the other six are performing. Which is why I personally wasn't particularly impressed with Keir Starmer's goal of making the UK the fastest growing economy out of the G7, it could simply be a reflection of how badly the others are doing.
Having said that if the UK were indeed to buck the trend and perform better than other G7 economies you would to have to ask why - generally they all follow a similar pathway. Unless there are very little differences between them and it is simply a case that they can't all perform identically and one has to have the top slot and one the bottom one.
I strongly disagree with your claim that the UK has been at "rock bottom" recently though. I suspect that your comment is simply for political consumption rather than an honest political assessment. Unless you are about 15 years old you will have lived through far worse economic turmoil.
No need to get personal, or purposfully take my comments out of context... I see this therad doesn't change!
your claim that the UK has been at “rock bottom” recently though.
What I actually said was "It’s easy to be fastest growing/best performing when you are at rock bottom"
Unless you are about 15 years old, then you will be well aware that I was talking in illustrative terms.
For example, I think Starmer is doing an exemplary job compared to the conservatives.
But that's not to say I think he's doing a particularly good job at all, in the grand scheme of things.
Yep,waist of time commenting on here.Full of know all no nothings.Half of them don't even live in this country and certainly no little about it.
Views from those outside the UK are invaluable. Especially from people that move between the UK and elsewhere and so can put our situation into an international context.
Yep,waist of time commenting on here.Fullof know all no nothings.Half of them don’t even live in this country and certainly no little about it.
Or how to spell it.
No need to get personal
Personal.....what are you talking about? I simply said that unless you are 15 years old (anyone that is) you will have lived through far worse economic turmoil.
Obviously I know that you are not 15 years old and that was precisely my point - you have lived through much worse economic turmoil. Why do you apparently feel insulted by that? Did you misread it and think that I was accusing you of being 15 years old?
Okay maybe I should have written "unless one is 15 years old one will have lived through far worse economic turmoil'. But I don't speak like that and I tend to write how I speak.
What I actually said was “It’s easy to be fastest growing/best performing when you are at rock bottom”
Yes I understood that, my point is that the UK economy hasn't been at rock bottom recently. Yes it hasn't been particularly buoyant recently but it has been in a far worse state in recent decades. And post pandemic it has been performing very close to the European average in terms of growth, inflation, and employment, and repeatedly better than Germany for example.
Notice how these pantomime tough decisions never actually involve tough decisions - like actually trying to change things for the better - instead going for the easy targets. It's never tough on the very wealthy that have done well out of the UK system.
Pathetic, and economically unsound.
It would have been so easy not to do this and bury all the bullshit about 22bn black-hole.
They've boxed themselves in. (I pointed this out just after the Truss debacle. That if they follow this line of attack - spending is going to be very difficult.)
This is of their own doing. What a total and utter shit show. Two months in and looking like incredible fools.
What's more is fiscally they're going to eat themselves for basically a 1.4bn cut.
This has got to be one of the most stupid and economically inept moves by a new government ever. We are talking sub-Tory levels of schooling here
Got to agree.
If the rational is to make it means tested like other benefits (gammons love restrictions on dole payments and wouldn't tolerate it being handed out arbitrarily), you could argue/stress, it's fairer, ensuring the money gets into the hands of those most in need. Instead it looks like booting poor pensioners in the balls/slats just in time for the now annual and much loved winter price hike announcement by the government on the energy industries behalf.
Notice how these pantomime tough decisions never actually involve tough decisions
And always involve taking something away/making it cost more.
What might have been better is to put in a full means test system where every individual is means tested. Any taxes, benefits and anything else can then be applied against that measure. It would make things. a lot easier and a lot fairer around benefits and wealth but admittedly it would be a nightmare to actually try and do it.
It should be easy, Kerley, HRMC deals with both tax and pensions so linking to the income tax declaration should be easy. I was amused to see that the government lost the case about paying the fuel handout to pensioners living abroad. Perhaps they should try limiting the handout to those declaring their tax in the UK (so resident more than half the year) by giving a tax credit to those pensioners on low incomes rather than call it the WFA.
Interesting article regarding the cut in Winter Fuel Allowance.
Appears to be a Treasury initiative offered to each new Chancellor as a way to save money, Reeves being the first to agree to it.
the problem with means tested benefits is low takeup and high marginal effective tax rates
apparently the take up of pension credit for poor pensioners is 61%
Of course the real answer here is to make the state pension a decent amount so it does not need to be topped up with benefits. Our state pension is pathetically low
Kerley - thats a halfway house to UBI
Our state pension is pathetically low
Depressingly low. But steadily rising...
https://news.sky.com/story/state-pension-to-rise-by-hundreds-of-pounds-in-april-13211894
the problem with means tested benefits is low takeup and high marginal effective tax rates
apparently the take up of pension credit for poor pensioners is 61%
This. Some would rather be poorer than try and wade their way through forms. I’ve had to fill in the forms for long term sickness before. It requires a lot of information, such as banking details you may not trust them with, and may be overwhelming.
Blimey, Pension Credit uptake was about 60% when I was in DWP 20 years ago, and we put a huge effort on to getting those entitled to it to claim it.
But a higher state pension would be a better solution, less bureaucratic, more dignified, the tax system would claw a little back from wealthy pensioners.
I have been a long time advocate of UBI done by positive and negative income tax. You set a basic income level. Income below that you get tax credits ie cash into your hands. Income above that you get taxed.
it removes the benefit trap and high marginal tax rates, it simplifies things enormously, it provides a decent income for everyone
I keep seeing articles where UBI is being tested, never seem to see the results. It's a really interesting concept.
I keep seeing articles where UBI is being tested, never seem to see the results. It’s a really interesting concept
It is interesting but it's likely to cause inflation as there's no clear backstop to just putting money into pockets and how they might spend it.
A job guarantee is the alternative methodology. Where the state offers a job until the private sector can stake up the slack of employment.
It acts as an automatic stabiliser on inflation instead of forcing people into unemployment which is the current stabiliser.
Inflation is the enemy of UBI.
Some comparisons here:
No need for it to be inflationary at all. It could be, it could be deflationary or neutral depending where you set the UBI and what tax rate you have above the UBI