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"Using the private sector to deliver something that ought to be done by the state (water as a good pragmatic example) – and adding layer of needed profit, is by definition an inefficiency."
It does depend on what the thing you're delivering is, trains and water for example I would agree.
But if there are services the public sector only needs from time to time, why create a workforce skilled and experienced enough to do that and have to pay them all the time when they are only needed some of the time?
But if there are services the public sector only needs from time to time, why create a workforce skilled and experienced enough to do that and have to pay them all the time when they are only needed some of the time?
Well that's why a job guarantee programme would work in this case. Helping people into work and transition to the private sector. It becomes the backstop to inflation too.
Paying them is not an issue providing they don't crowd things out.
(I'm really talking about the big stuff.)
Ha ha to the Scrooge meme.
I'm only pushing back at what is being put out there in debate! If it wasn't being repeated there would be no need for my existence.
(And I definitely don't have binners raging post count for angry Sunak/Tories recycling.)
Too tip for forumites - you can scroll past anything you don't want to read.
I expect, and hope, he doesn’t give a shit how you think of him. Why all this personal stuff?
Probably because he likes to dish it out but is very thin skinned as soon as someone gives him a wee love tap back. It's a quality that's irritating so people get irritated.
You don't notice so much cause he's on your side.
The personal insults are...tedious, irrelevant and boring.
At least binner's posts have some humour to them.
The truth is...nothing that anyone posts to this thread or any other on STW or anywhere else will cause anything to change.
It's nothing more than hiss & wind.
Carry on...
Looks like you and me a few years back Binners 🙂
At least binner’s posts have some humour to them.
He's the only one who's allowed. The rest of us get warnings and our posts deleted.
And again, it only seems that way cause he's on your team and your team is about to win.
rone
Full Member
Ha ha to the Scrooge meme.I’m only pushing back at what is being put out there in debate! If it wasn’t being repeated there would be no need for my existence.
I think it's a friendly nudge is all mate. I had a chuckle when I first saw it because you could change the wording to suit and make it apply to pretty much any of us on here.
You, me, all of us are of a mind to hammer our opinions/thoughts home like a nail on occasion. I sure as hell have done in at least 10 posts in the last 24 hours.😉
I had a chuckle when I first saw it because you could change the wording to suit and make it apply to pretty much any of us on here.
Mine would be:
You boy!
Has BruceWee mentioned that Nigel Farage is hiding under your bed yet today?
Scottish Labour candidate caught out on door camera as he tells a voter his party 'didn't bother at all' in 2019 in order to let the Tories win the Aberdeen South seat. 'I was hoping that [the Tory candidate] could win it,
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1805979339944513793
Too tip for forumites – you can scroll past anything you don’t want to read.
Does that include reading it to decide if you want to read it or not?
Scottish Labour candidate caught out on door camera as he tells a voter his party ‘didn’t bother at all’ in 2019 in order to let the Tories win the Aberdeen South seat. ‘I was hoping that [the Tory candidate] could win it,
<20 SNP seats in 2024.
Lab/Con coalition (but not an official coalition) in the Scottish parliament in 2026
Either independence or dissolution of the Scottish parliament by 2030.
Labour not putting up a fight against “Farage” in Clacton Labour officials said to be upset that Jovan Owusu-Nepaul was gaining traction for viral social media posts
Oops…….
Does that include reading it to decide if you want to read it or not?
There's a couple of "comrades" on this thread I haven't read for quite a while. It's honestly quite refreshing to not get drawn into the relentless misery they bestow upon the [singletrack] world echo chamber
Not that I avoid all at that end of the political spectrum, there's a few heavily left leaning forumites I'll happily read to see their point of view and really value their opinion and perspective.
Scottish Labour candidate caught out on door camera as he tells a voter his party ‘didn’t bother at all’ in 2019 in order to let the Tories win the Aberdeen South seat. ‘I was hoping that [the Tory candidate] could win it,
Yup - the labour / tory pact in Scotland that resulted in 10 extra tory MPS that saved Mays premiership and thus helped create brexit. Watching labour folk cheering tory wins was a weird thing to see to say the least. Shows how lost labour in Scotland became
BruceWee
Mine would be:You boy!Has BruceWee mentioned that Nigel Farage is hiding under your bed yet today?
Lol, it could be. 😁
Mine would have to bev something like:
You boy!
Has Poopscoop mentioned AGAIN that we basically all agree on everything because I might have missed it during the argument I was having.
😁
PSA: Sunak/Starmer debate on in 15mins.
I caught about 10 minutes of this tonight (it was all I could stand before hurling a cat through the TV). As much as it pains me to say it, Sunak demolished Starmer. Starmer sounded rattled and Sunak knew it, he had that smug shit-eating grin on his face and talked over Starmer at every opportunity.
If I were coming to this cold with no knowledge of political history, hands down I'd be voting for Sunak.
This feels very much like '97
Except without the hope
This feels very much like ’97
Except without the hope
Don't think there's been a truer word spoken on this thread.
Cougar
Full Member
PSA: Sunak/Starmer debate on in 15mins.I caught about 10 minutes of this tonight (it was all I could stand before hurling a cat through the TV). As much as it pains me to say it, Sunak demolished Starmer. Starmer sounded rattled and Sunak knew it, he had that smug shit-eating grin on his face and talked over Starmer at every opportunity.
If I were coming to this cold with no knowledge of political history, hands down I’d be voting for Sunak.
I hear you but we are bloody lucky the populous do know both of them. The snap polling afterwards has given it a 50/50. When you know the shit fest Sunak has presided over and his petulant nature his alpha male routine simply appears overtly aggressive and outright desperate.
All Starmer had to do tonight was not **** it up and he didn't. Starmer just doesn't relish a street fight in the way Rayner does. Will he make a better PM than Sunak though? I'm bloody convinced he will.
I bet the polling doesn't move in any meaningful way at all. There was no knockout blow, for Starmer that's ok, desirable in fact, for Sunak it's extinction.👍
Caher
Full Member
There’s a recent picture of TJ on the haircut thread. Or the Lion King.
Hahaha! I'm glad I read that, now I can go to kip with a smile on my face. 😁
vazaha
Full Member
This feels very much like ’97Except without the hope
You've got to remember though that Blair was intensely disliked by many, even back then, both him personally and some of his policies. It didn't seem as bad as now because social media has amplified the hell out of everything but it was there.
For me though, there was hope then and there is now. The theme to that era of Labour is just as relevant now as then, "things can only get better!"
it’s completely alien to me how Scottish Labour ever managed to think that was even remotely a good idea.
Labour in Scotland have a tribal hatred for the SNP for taking all their votes. Its caused them to collectively loose their moral compass. The only Scottish labour po0licy is is SNP baaaaaaaaaaaaad. Labours behaviour collectively over the 14 years since they lost power to the SNP has been that of a toddler sulking and the electorate have pickled up on that and stopped voting for them. labour used to take almost all the seats in Scotland - now its going to be seen as a huge win if they become the largest party - and thats with the SNP in a fair bit of disarray
I stopped voting labour because of their behaviour
For me though, there was hope then and there is now. The theme to that era of Labour is just as relevant now as then, “things can only get better!”
Nothing like the same for me. The similarity is that people were fed up with the tories (not surprisingly after almost 20 years) but the hope was definitely higher. The reason for that is that Blair was selling hope and change while Starmer is not.
We will never know but it would interesting to go back a year and have a version of Starmer with more progressive policies and more hope and then seeing if the polling was any different.
Did Sunak stomp around repeatedly saying Labour would raise your taxes and increase immigration?
Pretty much and neither the wt blanket running the debate or Starmer seemed to do anything about him shouting over people, not answer questions and constantly interrupting.
The rest of us get warnings and our posts deleted
Was that before or after you admitted you were being a dick? Two things. Thing One, a picture says a thousand words, and none or them rude or personally insulting. Thing Two it will never not be funny to prick a humourless social media post with a well aimed image.
Except without the hope
I know its become popular to portray the 97 election as some sort of new beginning and that it was wildly popular, but my own personal recollection canvassing was that it wasn't that much different from this time around. There seemed to be (on the doorstep at least) as many undecided, reluctant, or folks just not going to vote as there seems to be now. I think turnout was quite low.
I bet the polling doesn’t move in any meaningful way at all.
There's a well know political thought that essesntially says that in most instances election campaigns have zero effect on the outcome, and that the public have pretty much made up their minds the day of the announcement.
There’s a well know political thought that essesntially says that in most instances election campaigns have zero effect on the outcome, and that the public have pretty much made up their minds the day of the announcement.
Which backs up my point about going round dropping leaflets being a waste of time other than it makes those dropping them feel they are doing something (they are not)
I know its become popular to portray the 97 election as some sort of new beginning and that it was wildly popular, but my own personal recollection canvassing was that it wasn’t that much different from this time around.
It was very different for me. Much more positive and hopeful of something actually changing. The backdrop differed though in that the tories were at the stage of being taken round the back and put down whereas now they are just ****ing horrible people.
The electorate move much more during campaigns than they used to.
I'd agree about the "hope" thing... Starmer just doesn't have the evangelism of someone like Blair (or Obama), so will never have what they had in terms of exciting the voters. But I think a lot of the lack of hope this time around is down to the recent politics of big hot promises being followed by damp failure... and the antidote to that is realism rather than inflated expectations. A lot of people are looking for a feeling of exhausted relief rather than excited elation come election night. I'll take a bit of both if possible... anything other than a dose of "what have we done again" and lots of grinning Conservative candidates.
Jimmy dimly on the bbc after show.
He is utterly dead behind the eyes now, no emotion and no humanity
There was never much going on in there anyway, but he's probably medicated up to the eyeballs now too.
As for private sector not be as 'wasteful' - if we're talking big private sector stuff the directors and board tend to remove any pesky excess cash as bonuses and dividends to avoid it being wasted on trivia like service level agreements, staff wage rises, product quality, having to treat sewage rather than just dumping it in the nearest river etc.
Labour not putting up a fight against “Farage” in Clacton Labour officials said to be upset that Jovan Owusu-Nepaul was gaining traction for viral social media posts
Awesome. No need to stand up to the radical right for this Labour party. It's the left who are the real enemy after all 😔
Tricky one that... let Farage win by splitting the vote to stop him, by campaigning to take Tory votes?
Give it all you've got to try and become the second party behind Reform?
Tactics in that seat, for both Labour and the voters, are very difficult.. glad I'm not voting there.
[ source ]
Tactics in that seat, for both Labour and the voters, are very difficult.. glad I’m not voting there.
Seems like the ultimate 'hold your nose' vote. One more Tory MP isn't going make much of a difference. Nigel Farage in the HoC for five years pushes the door further open to a Conservative party taken over by the far right.
Tough for any Labour supporter to make that grim choice, but voting Tory is the correct tactical vote in this scenario.
I agree. Maybe. And probably also right for Labour to soft pedal in the campaign there... although you can see why the candidate would want to do otherwise! What a grim situation for them.
At least binner’s posts have some humour to them.
I remember when Life of Brian was funny. Yes, I am very old.
Ah blimey I had realised that it was that close between Labour and Tory 😕
Reform finally put some rubbish through the door this morning.
Local candidate is from the gaming sector and has no solutions just a list of grievances.
Is it too early for a extra large whisky?
Gloves were used to handle the toxic waste and move it into the appropriate filing receptacle.
Clacton is like a rerun of Brexit except Farage now only gets 42% rather than 52%. As with the RN/FN in France, Reform has given the xenophic/racist/fascist types a natural home away from the traditional right- left divide. It's a no-brainer for those with no brains and/or hate in their brains.
I know not everyone approves of the, "they are a little thick"message but come on, have you seen some of the Clacton interviews online?
It’s a no-brainer for those with no brains and/or hate in their brains.
And sadly that seems to be 42% of the people which is rather a lot. Don't know much about Clacton but it must be full of right ****s (and that is rich coming from someone who lives in the New Forest)
Even the normally reliable Guardian is just going through the motions of taking the latest head-to-head debate to bits. Or maybe it's a very clever reflection of how the two protagonists are handling it...
Was that before or after you admitted you were being a dick?
What I actually got warned for was saying that he was a bad* advert for Labour and for every person he's convinced to vote Labour by knocking on doors he's probably turned at least one person off voting Labour with his hilarious antics on here. Which I don't think was being a dick, just pointing out a fact.
Like I said, binners likes to dish it out but gets very upset if someone pushes back. For a guy who like nothing more than going on about racist pensioners he got very triggered when I suggested Gen-Xers are better off than millennials and Gen-Z. Suddenly making any kind of generalisation about age related demographics was a terrible thing to do. He had to give us all his story of ruin and how he heroically pulled himself back up by his boot straps and everything.
And again, I notice it's only the people who agree with him who are leaping to defend his comedic genius. The rest of us are just irritated when we try to make valid points and get a 'well aimed meme' that is solely there to belittle the people making the points rather than address the points themselves.
Anyway, I was quite happy to leave this but if the binners superfans wants to keep going then fine.
*I may have used a word for excrement instead of bad.
Even the normally reliable Guardian is just going through the motions of taking the latest head-to-head debate to bits
This election campaign seems to have broken the time/space continuum. It feels like it’s been going on for about a year. There’s surely nothing left to say? I can’t believe we’ve still got another week of this nonsense.
I didn’t watch last nights debate, but let me guess…. Rishi was a titchy, tetchy little prince who just shouted over everyone and Keirs dad was a toolmaker? Does that about cover it?
Ramster called him a liar about the 2k tax hike and told him he'd been told to stop saying that
It was like being told off by your Mum's bingo mate - where you know they're right but they have no authority so you just merrily ignore them
I didn’t watch last nights debate, but let me guess…. Rishi is a titchy, tetchy little prince who just shouts over everyone and Keirs dad was a toolmaker?
Oh I've not watched any of them, I can't stand Rishi's smug smarmy "I know best" attitude and Starmer is just bland. Inoffensive but dull.
But yes, according to the news items I've seen on it, Rishi did indeed get tetchy. As usual.
Not sure if Starmer brought up the surprising and little known fact that his Dad was a toolmaker...
Wow....Binners is clearly living rent free in BruceWee's head 😂
So Farage wins, takes his seats in Commons, waits until Tories look like they are about to go through a new leadership contest (won't have to wait for long), engineers a fallout with Tice/Reform, moves benches to Tories, stands for leadership, voted in my gammony Tory members, becomes leader of the opposition, at the next election has a chance of becoming PM.
What am I getting wrong here?
Wow….Binners is clearly living rent free in BruceWee’s head 😂
I'm sure binners appreciates your support. Keep fighting the good fight.
But this thread is definitely a good example of how people who have a simple message (GTTO) and stick to it relentlessly while berating those who try to ask awkward questions are always going to be far more popular than people who ask awkward questions and then just keep asking them if they don't get an answer.
Kind of like a microcosm of the Brexit campaign.
Get Brexit Done was a rallying cry and it worked. No one wanted to think about afterwards. Get The Tories Out is exactly the same. No one wants to think about what comes next.
Loving today's electoral calculus poll score! Go Ed Davey!
19 reform seats is scary though.
The RW press absolutely hammering Starmer on their front pages. Mainly taxes and immigration.
I think Labours instinct to be very cautious with policy, too cautious for many im sure including me, was the rest to go.
If Labour had been even remotely radical (at this point😉) Labour would have been on the defensive all the way through with Sunak/Tories getting a hall pass from much of the media.
I saw online that Clacton is overwhelmingly white/British. Why is it places like that, that are always the most xenophobic?
Purity of essence?
So Farage wins, takes his seats in Commons, waits until Tories look like they are about to go through a new leadership contest (won’t have to wait for long), engineers a fallout with Tice/Reform, moves benches to Tories, stands for leadership, voted in my gammony Tory members, becomes leader of the opposition, at the next election has a chance of becoming PM
He would need to gain a lot more credibility for that to happen. A fair chunk of the people like him, yes, but they're his low hanging fruit. Converting other demographics might be a lot harder. Hopefully.
Oh dear God, people are really too thick to be allowed to vote...
https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1806238748536922386?t=_FyGQTSXOG2ggdzbufkRaA&s=19
Edit: what do I need to do to actually get the tweet to embed rather than just link?
I like binners' posts most of the time and I pretty much agree with him. But looking back at last night's exchanges he probably got a bit over-excited and overdid the PFJ / 6th Form common room / Magic Grandad stuff.
Does that make me a fence-sitter? Do I need to choose a side?
As for not worrying about post 4th July if the Tories are gone...
Nonsense. If Labour don't start enacting some Labour policies I will be berating them almost as harshly as the Tories. I accept that Starmer has to lie to the more easily-led voters, but he needs to enact policies, quickly, that negate their faux outrage by making a difference to normal people's lives. Normal people who will then drown out cries of 'betrayal' from people who wouldn't know what their best interests are if they walked face first into them.
Yep agreed Binners, the campaign feels like a slightly longer period than my first marriage.
Our local hustings aren't until next Monday/Tuesday either?! Who's going to be arsed to turn up to them (if I can be arsed I'll only be going to bait the Reform candidate into saying something ridiculous!)
So Farage wins, takes his seats in Commons, waits until Tories look like they are about to go through a new leadership contest (won’t have to wait for long), engineers a fallout with Tice/Reform, moves benches to Tories, stands for leadership, voted in my gammony Tory members, becomes leader of the opposition, at the next election has a chance of becoming PM
I really don't think he wants to be LotO. He's a campaigner, self professed "non politician/elite" and is only really good at problem (real or otherwise) creation, not problem solving. Even worst would be winning an election and actually having to DO STUFF. He'd hate it!
He'd also be under a hell of a lot of scrutiny and I still maintain there are some very dangerous (for him) skeletons in his cupboard.
Oh, reports today that his Putin love in has caused a dip in Reform support... so if you like a bit of Reform baiting on X... Linking Putin to Farage is the way to go. 😉
It didn't require Binners to put me off voting Labour, though he's being trying very hard. It was Starmer himself with his attitude to Stop Oil and the NHS.
Don't worry about it, Brucewee, you're the go to for reasoned arguments and Binners for posting superficially amusing memes.
FFS guys - a lot of us can be a bit of a pain hammering away at particular points. Hows about stopping the personal attacks?
people are really too thick to be allowed to vote
I work in a GP practice We have guidelines in publishing and they say aim for Entry Level 2 on the Adult Literacy scale published by the NLT (literacy Trust) It's why, when you read stuff published by the NHS is says things like "your tummy", and it has to tell people to wash their hands after using the toilet.
The Literacy Trust say that Entry Level 2 is equivalent to literacy levels at age 7-9. Adults with below Entry Level 2 may not be able to describe a child’s symptoms to a doctor or read a label on a medicine bottle. They suggest that may include more than 7 million people in the UK
It's not until you get to level 2 - the highest the Trusts Scale goes equivalent to GSCE grades A-C that you get folks who can even recognise bias in the news media.
Edit: If you've ever wondered why more folks read the Sun than the broadsheets, I'm sure you won't be surprised where the editorial guidelines for the Sun suggest to pitch their literacy levels...
IDK because I have prosopagnosia (difficulty recognising / distinguishing similar looking faces) but despite the denials there are a few that are utterly certain that this new Tory voter isn't all they seem to be.
Hilarious if correct.
https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1805990458159481219
Hows about STW getting rid of the anonymous likes which are used by clans to enhance personal attacks.
Oil : https://www.insider.co.uk/news/labour-confirms-no-new-oil-33024065
NHS : https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-responds-to-labour-party-manifesto
Hows about STW getting rid of the anonymous likes which are used by clans to enhance personal attacks.
Oh Christ, not this again, You know that's only happening in your head, right? I mean they're literally anonymous, there's no way you can decide that people use them for, what was your phrase? "Hate-Likes" or even have the time or organisational skills too gang up to co-ordinate it.
FFS guys – a lot of us can be a bit of a pain hammering away at particular points. Hows about stopping the personal attacks?
Or how about those that are a pain hammering away a particular point over and over again stop doing it. Then we can have an actual discussion about what is actually happening and likely to happen.
Edukator
Free Member
Hows about STW getting rid of the anonymous likes which are used by clans to enhance personal attacks.
That would penalise all the other threads on the forum though which would be a shame.
Disabling it on certain threads might be logistically troublesome and also cause it's own issues. People would argue about which threads should have Likes disabled etc etc!😁
I suppose hovering over a like icon could be made to name, names but the Devs probably have enough on their plate at the moment.
For me, the likes aren't the issue anyway, everyone on here gets grumpy sometimes. We have no idea what a poster is going through in the real world, sometimes that can seep into the forum.