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Anyone got any thoughts.. .
I'm thinking with a top box on the back they would hold a decent amount for the family and be ace when we get to bumpy camp sites etc.
Currently own a mk2 crv and the rear boot is big but as the family is growing want something bigger.
May just get a van but I quite like the look of these.
Should swallow tents and kit etc?
Navara/l200 what's best for budget?
Anything should look out for in particular?
For that budget I'd be looking at as new/low milage as possible Isuzu Rodeo or Ford Ranger (mk3). Isuzu is a bit more refined, Ranger is more of a work horse - both seem to be the most reliable of the bunch.
With the Rangers, make sure it doesn't jump out of 5th under load.
Wouldn't touch an L200. Not sure if the Navaras within that budget would be post chassis issues.
Whatever you get it'll feel big and pretty agricultural after driving a CRV - saying that I wouldn't be without one.
alot smaller than youd think both in the cab and in the bed
less security than a van even with a lockable lid
horrible ride for the rear passengers - if theres one vehicle that makes me feel sick its an unloaded pick up .... the occelating motion is horrid.
tail happy when empty
hold out for the van.
Toyota Hilux for reliability if you are set on one, otherwise a Crew/Kombi van is a lot more practical spacewise for the same outer footprint and less agricultural to drive.
Should swallow tents and kit etc?
Horrible to unload with a top box on.
Not high enough to stand up, way too long/high to reach in from the back. So you end up crawling over all your kit to get to stuff.
Get a crew van.
Thought this might be the advice...
Back to looking at vitos probably
The brother in law has an Isuzu Blade 2016 ..I drive it quite frequently and don't like it at all ..the rear box space is quite shallow and even though it has all the bells & whistles ..the ride is bloody awful ..
Get a van .
Not had a double crew but had a big Toyota pick up with top box as a hire car when biking in South Africa this year as neal says they're a real pita to unload. Have to clamber around all hunched up, put me right off the idea of getting one and I always had a hankering for one what with living in London and working in an office
Would also agree with most of the above, pickups are big on the outside, small on the inside. Unless you're towing or need 4x4 a van will be better in every way.
Although:
Ride quality - depends what you're used to, latest generation ride is surprising good. The Isuzu is better than the Ranger out of the 2 mentioned above.
Tail happy - maybe but not a bad thing
Unloading being a pain - big storage boxes sort this, truck tops are really water tight either
Well to be fair I'm comparing the ride to my land rover 90..... And it doesn't exceed that -but for the price paid it should.
Different world with 500l of diesel on the back of a hilux though they are almost comfy but slower than snot when loaded
Everything Trail rat says, rear seats are just benches and unpleasant for adults to travel more than an hour on. clutch is heavy, back tray isn't secure (altho my back seats fold up like cinema seats for a big secure bike space/ storage, possibly 2). Mine's been great for ski boat towing and launching, but a hell of a pain to drive all year for once a week over the summer.
Apparently VW are the nicest to live with according to one of my customers who's had them all, but still probably more than £10k.
rear seats are just benches
That'll be a super cab not a crew cab. Plenty of space in the back of the Isuzus - even our old l200 will fit a full sized human, just. Clutch depends on the car, not something Ive noticed on any I've driven.
Spot on about the backs though, not what you'd call secure.
That'll be a super cab not a crew cab.
Nope, crew cab, you compare the depth of the rear seat to a normal estate car (mondeo etc), they're significantly shorter (they end halfway up your thigh rather than into the backs of your knees), anyone more than about 5'10" really feels it on a long journey.
In fairness they're designed along the lines of shuttling a few blokes in no particular splendour, too and from and around building sites and the like.
Oh yes . The other issue with our crew (not super) cab Hilux is the rear seat height is too low.
I had a 57 plate (Mk 2) Ranger for 3 years and loved it.
The ride was superb - big high profile tyres, felt like it floated everywhere. My youngest gets travel sick and its the only vehicle she didn't throw up in.
Loading can be awkward, but plan properly and it needn't be. Side loading canopies are also available which improves things.
I'd have another in a heart beat if I could justify a 3rd vehicle in the household.
Nope, crew cab
Fair enough - what truck out of interest? Never seen a double cab with folding rear bench.
Conversely in the L200 the rear seats are too heigh!
Our work hilux crew can has a folding rear bench, they hide the jack under it. As trail rat said, gutless, traction less, unsecure and seem to dent easier than the Land Rovers.
If you wanted a load carrying off road pick up I'd have suggested a LR 130. Going to be hanging onto ours for years it looks like.
Our work hilux crew can has a folding rear bench, they hide the jack under it. As trail rat said, gutless, traction less, unsecure and seem to dent easier than the Land Rovers.If you wanted a load carrying off road pick up I'd have suggested a LR 130. Going to be hanging onto ours for years it looks like.
If genuine off road ability is required, I would agree (with the caveat that they should probably enjoy fixing stuff). The OP doesn't read that way though. Much as I love Land Rovers, if someone wants something to do essentially what a van does but with that warm fuzzy feeling that it looks like it could go off road one day, a landy probably isn't the right choice. For road work a van will be comfier, quieter, use less fuel, and have more interior space for a given footprint.
FWIW my brother got a Hilux recently for carting logging kit around, it's actually roomier in the back than I expected. His family wagon barely gets a look in now, the kids (admittedly young, thus small) much prefer the Hilux. It's an older model though, think it's about 10 years old so not the current shape.
Don't get one they are rubbish and you will regret it.
I'm on my 4th in 8 years and do 30-40k p.a. absolutely loaded with tools and I manage to work out of it on a daily basis.
No, they aren't THE most practical/comfy/refined vehicle in the world, but not half as bad as the haters make out
Mk3 Ranger
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Navara #1
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Navara #2
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Ranger #2
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So remind me where do the back seat passengers put their feet?
So remind me where do the back seat passengers put their feet?
On the floor (when it's not covered with crap 😉 Front seat is pushed quite far back at that - could easily drive with it a few inches forward.
They are hardly limo's, but yet again, on Saturday I'll be driving to BPW from Derbyshire, with 2 full grown men in the back and never get any complaints
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yeah nobody complains about a free lift 😉 Don't worry I've sat in plenty love holding my knees 😉
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Depends what you want but with no serious off road component a pickup makes no sense though.
I got a new Navara recently. We have an Isuzu and a Toyota at work and both are crude in comparison. The navara is an auto, which helps the heavy clutch issue. There's loads of room inside and I've got a roller shutter on the back; the hardtops are horrible to access and for rear vision. The rear suspension on the new Navara is multi-link, not cart spring, so the ride is only 10 years behind a 'normal' car, not 20. My last company vehicle was a Freelander, which was about 1000% superior in every way.
I tested the Ford and the VW pickups, too. The Ford was fast (3.2L) but poor ride quality and the VW had a better quality interior (not much though) but another poor ride.
My friend will be selling a 2012 Hyundai iload crew van in the next 6-8 weeks as he has a new transit on the way. Can seat 6, double sliding doors, hatch tailgate, metallic grey, slightly under £10k.
Cracking van, so versatile and very reliable.
mikewsmith - MemberDepends what you want but with no serious off road component a pickup makes no sense though.
And here I was thinking that in STW canonical knowledge pickups are useless off road because they aren't a "proper 4x4" or some other rubbish and if you need to do serious off road you need a landrover. Or a 2CV with winter tyres...I can't remember which is supposed to be best.
Anyway OP just try one. They do a lot of things well but aren't brilliant at anything in particular. There seems to be a pretty irrational hatred against them on STW. If I had to guess it's probably because they win the trail centre car park top trumps competition over A4 avants and Octavia VRSesses by being bigger, more outdoorsey, carrying more stuff and parking on more rugged patches of grass. I guess a VRS can go faster but you're not allowed to go fast in the People's Republic of STW so yeah....pickups are the enemy 😆
In fairness they're designed along the lines of shuttling a few blokes in no particular splendour,
In fairness they're designed for accounting loopholes. There are ratios of load length to passenger space to be maintained to fit into these specific loopholes basically allowing business owners to put a vehicle they'll use for family life through their books as a commercial vehicle. A permanent bulkhead between those two spaces is part of that too, so you don't have the convenience of folding the rear seats you'd get in and SUV / estate car. Passenger comfort is sacrificed in all that and the whole load bed ends up behind the rear axel. So if you load them with the tonne that they also have to be able carry as part of that loophole they look (and handle) like a shitting dog.
An yet despite all this they're surprisingly popular. I don't know why you'd buy one if your accountant wasn't advising you to though.
maccruiskeen - MemberIn fairness they're designed for accounting loopholes.
They have the same tax loopholes all over the world? They've had them for 70 years? Was the doublecab invented to fit the loophole or was the loophole invented around the doublecab?
On my second ranger in 17 years, they last well. Yes tax efficient, not a racing car, some parking spaces are too small.
I love mine. It's great, kids like it in the back.
MrsDts has a Passat estate, work lease car. We often choose to use the truck over the VW. We used the truck to go to the alpes at Easter rather than the Passat. Wouldn't have been any faster in the VW. Wouldn't have been able to take any more gear in a van.
I can park in the muddy bits of BPW car park and get kudos 😳
They've had them for 70 years?
Had what for 70 years?
These universal tax loopholes of which you speak.
yeah i have the major malfunction of having a twin cab hilux d4d in ROW spec at work with the justification that i dont travel on "roads"
its pish and id take just about any form of transport over it .... including a mazda 323 automatic - and thats saying something 😀
In fairness they're designed for accounting loopholes.
As above, I think you need to re think that one, they may be often bought specifically in this country as a tax loophole, but they are designed (I'll hazard a guess, 1st in USA), built and driven all over the world, a world that doesn't have exactly the same tax laws as us.
our uk ones do have a smaller bed than most around the world to be fair.
show me a uk pick up that has a twin cab and a full size bed - and thats because of the tax specification of a dual purpose vehicle.
My Ranger would fit in the back of an F150,
our uk ones do have a smaller bed than most around the world....
What? are you telling me that they all design and build a slightly smaller pickup model specifically for the tiny UK market just for a tax jiggerypokery, BOLLOX.
no you can buy short beds all over the world .....
but why dont they import full size beds to the uk ?
They've always struck me as pointless, all the downsides of a big van without the load space?.
you mean all the downsides of a small van ?
No, downsides of a big van, ie barge-esque size, parking issues, high tax, but without the upside - ie no room to fit full bikes in.
ok sorry my judgment is clouded i drive a 7,2m vehicle when im home so i didnt realise that 5m is actually quite long.
plus they have piss poor turning circle.
What? are you telling me that they all design and build a smaller pickup model specifically for the UK for a tax jiggerypokery, BOLLOX.
If you say so
In the US the bed needs to be at least 6ft long to qualify for tax breaks. In the UK 'Dual Purpose Vehicles' were defined by legislation in the 1980s, really to cater to the farming market, which is why they tend to be, but don't have to be 4x4. In the UK the load bed is restricted in length as a proportion of the passenger space, so thats why the bed is truncated compared to US market dual cabs. 5 seat dual cab vans can qualify as DPV's too but the load space ratio thing dictates its has to be the SWB versions
Theres lots of little things to keep in balance - load space:passenger space, a fixed devision between the load and passenger spaces a minimum payload weight but a specified max vehicle weight. Get all those things right then theres a legislative sweet spot that lets you treat a 5 seat vehicle as a 'commercial vehicle' for the purpose of road tax, BIK and so on. At the same time you fall outside of VOSA legislation for towing weights.
Completely by accident - all these vehicles from international manufactures we see in the UK seem to fall neatly within this criteria. Yet not of the ones that fall outside of that definition manage to find their way to our shores.
Ok sorry I thought you were suggesting we got some sort of different vehicle in the UK to everywhere else.
but why dont they import full size beds to the uk ?
Possibly not popular, possibly falling foul of some other Euro whataboutery law or maybe just not designated for the Euro market for other reasons. I don't see how a slightly bigger/longer UK version would change the tax dodge as it would still be classed a commercial vehicle and the VAT fiddlydiddly could still be claimed.
thats not the tax dodge.
its the BIK tax on peoples company vehicles that means it has to mean strict criteria.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/vans/95748/double-cab-pick-up-truck-tax-benefits-explained
explained there
OK I'll concede my lack of understanding, but I still don't get that worldwide manufacturers are specifically [b]designing[/b] what is really a niche vehicle, to fit a small market in the tiny UK, based on a unique tax law. That was the jist of maccruiskeen original post. I really can't believe that Nissan R&D went, "oh bloody hell, look at the UK tax thingy, better base a whole vehicle design around them".
That's the quote.In fairness they're designed for accounting loopholes.
Or to follow up my original post, if you don't need to actually go properly off road, most other things are capable. When we don't need the Land Rover,we have a caddy van that manages just fine across fields, up forest tracks and farm lanes along with my Octavia. So a van or estate will probably do what the OP wants, as long as it isn't low with big vanity wheels.
Way more room in a Vito, it has been a shock going back to a pickup after 18 months... but the steering blew up a few times so I kinda had to change (and I really was missing 4WD ability!)
From what I have had:
Hilux - must have been about '95. Drove it across the Amazon and loved it! Not a real world test though 😉
Last Gen Navara - it was good to drive back in it's time (mine was about 2008 IIRC), but I kept blowing up the engine/rear diff/4WD system. It was a "bad one" apparently.
Last Gen L200 - noisy, bouncy - get rid of the hideous Bridgestone tyres to prevent the back end escaping. It was great off road and in the manky snow though, and had a very good turning circle for a pickup.
Last Gen Isuzu - think it was last gen anyway. Nice - quiet and comfy
Current Navara - this is what replaced the Vito, exceptionally good all round, other than being smaller inside but bigger outside! Has grown up suspension too.
No idea what the SsanYongs or Great Walls are like - probably crap - but newer for less money so perhaps worth a look when comparing against old kit. Most have horrible back ends (for traction) and horrible load areas. Most have the turning circle of a supertanker... and most drink fuel like it is going out of fashion. I use them for work, which is what they were designed for... even if mine is covered in cow and automatic stuff... not a great family wagon though!
No idea what the SsanYongs or Great Walls are like - probably crap - but newer for less money so perhaps worth a look when comparing against old kit.
Great wall have some asbestos issues.
I’d love a pick up, I’ve had a hankering for a series 2 ford ranger wildtrak for a good while now, But contorting myself in the back seat of the car to undress out of my sodden commuter clothes has finally convinced me that the most practical and useful vehicle is roughly van shaped with extra seats.
Just had a ford ranger wildtrak as a courtesy car for 4 weeks,absolutely loved it. Did a week in Cornwall with way more stuff than we needed and the dog in his cage in the back. Then a weekend camping was just so easy. Even chucked laddos bike on top of all the gear just diagonally lay flat. When this current motor goes back I'll be looking for a truck!
Just had a ford ranger wildtrak as a courtesy car for 4 weeks,absolutely loved it. Did a week in Cornwall with way more stuff than we needed and the dog in his cage in the back. Then a weekend camping was just so easy. Even chucked laddos bike on top of all the gear just diagonally lay flat. When this current motor goes back I'll be looking for a truck!
Don't be ridiculous Wrighty - are you deluded? STW says they are crap, so you are quite clearly wrong 😉
I’m a fan of the ‘inbetween’ vehicles, Hilux Surf, pathfinder, whatever the Mitsubishi one is...
Almost as much room as the pick up but a slightly more flexible for family use. Obviously not as good as a pickup for site use.
They've always struck me as pointless, all the downsides of a big van without the load space?.
Yep. That's been my experience of them. I've been to a lot of UK campsites and I've never been to one yet that needed a 4x4 - it would kind of put of put off a lot of potential customers?
They make sense as a farm vehicle but little else. The only way I've seen them carrying bikes is without a hardtop/bikes over tailgate. Quick to load but poor for security and then you definitely don't have dry space for luggage (there's very little room in the cab).
We rented a hardtop two seater pickup in South Africa. All the problems above - wasn't easy to get the bikes in or any luggage around them.
Van based people carrier for the win. Even a small one will have more usable space, and be more comfortable to travel in, than a pickup.
Killer road tax* compared to the pickup equivalent? Was heartily put off a pathfinder when I saw it was a small fortune annually to the tax man, when he’s already getting a sizeable cut from the higher fuel consumption.Almost as much room as the pick up but a slightly more flexible for family use. Obviously not as good as a pickup for site use.
*i know, it’s not a road tax...
v8ninety - MemberKiller road tax* compared to the pickup equivalent?
Dunno about the UK but in Ireland you can convert almost any such vehicle to avail of commercial tax rates* by removing the rear seats and adding anchor points.
"Commercial" Porsche Cayennes and V8 Range Rovers make me chuckle.
*333 euro pa
I have an izuzu dmax for work, I hate it with a passion.
Don't be ridiculous Wrighty - are you deluded? STW says they are crap, so you are quite clearly wrong
Just being objective 😉 Massivly popular here in Oz though the increase in bike theft is making them less popular. Spent a while in them on mine sites, perfect for carrying 2 people on shit roads and children in the back.
Just had a ford ranger wildtrak as a courtesy car for 4 weeks,absolutely loved it.
Damn you wrightyson!