[Closed] TV licence people - entering the house?

can they legally demand to be let in these days

No

I believe they still have right of entry.

[edit] or maybe not

Anybody would need a warrant to enter your property. They'd have to be occompanied by a police office to gain entry.

I wouldn't worry about it.

no right of entry without a warrant. we've had one visit, after telling them we didn't have a tv for the 23rd time they asked if they could come in and see. i said no, they went away.

TV licensing enforcement is a hotbed of myths.

But yes, as others have said, they have no power of entry without a court order, and they'll only get a court order if they have reason to suspect you're watching TV illicitly (and "but guv, he's not got a licence, he must be a wrong un" isn't good enough).

In the highly unlikely event of them turning up on your doorstep, they're trespassing and should be gently reminded of this. (-:

I too gave up on a TV. £150 saved, and there was so little I wanted to watch, so I-Player and such are enough. I wonder how many others have done the same.

Perhaps we could/should charge a viewing fee?

I had a guy turn-up on my doorstep many years ago when I didn't own a TV. He asked if he could inpsect the property so I stood back and told him to knock himself out. He simply smiled, scribbled something on his clipboard, looked up and said "Checked!".

That was that...

How can you "prove" that you're not watching any real-time broadcasts?

No wonder there's so many bloody reality shows and repeats with people like you around.

Not worried, I really don't have anything to hide. I have always been happy to contribute to the BBC and people who duck their license fees have always annoyed me - I don't see why I should pay higher license fees to subsidise cheaters who then boast how clever they are. Equipment breakage has co-coincided with declining quality of signal where I live (trees growing, high building works), too many reality and lifestyle TV shows and my loosing my job so being shorter on money. I will buy a new license if/when I take TV up again.

I am mostly curious, as civil liberties seem to be changing lots these days, what the rules are for TV people demanding to search the house. It was never an issue for me but its caused me to wonder now. Anyone got any links to a legal statement about house entry?

This might be me imagining things but I thought if you had a internet connection and a computer you had to have a TV license now a days?

we had one come round. he took a quick look and saw that we only had consoles and went. If you are not watching tv illegally then you have nothing to hide anyway

They do not have the rigth to Enter you home at their demand.

They'd need a court ruling / warrant to do so, etc.

I've had the request from one or two inspectors to enter.
I refuse, they go away.

I totally dislike the TVLA and their default, bully boy stance, towards people, yadda, yadda.

This might be me imagining things but I thought if you had a internet connection and a computer you had to have a TV license now a days?

You need a licence to watch (or record) broadcast TV, be that with a TV or a computer. You don't need one to watch TV post-broadcast on iPlayer or wherever.

[i]If you are not watching tv illegally then you have nothing to hide anyway [/i]

Missing the point, imo.

Nobody, Nooobody rocks up to me on my front door step and just walks in at their discretion.

I totally dislike the TVLA and their default, bully boy stance

Me too.

I have a licence; I'm happy to pay it, I think it's worth the money. However, I abhor the 'guilty until proven innocent' approach of the licensing authority.

"If you don't have a TV, let us know." No, if I don't have a TV then I'm having nothing to do with you. I don't notify the DVLA that I haven't got a car, the police that I don't have a firearm, the local trout farm that I'm not fishing; why should you lot be any different?

From the licensing site, bold bits are highlighted by me not them:

"You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you [b]watch or record TV as it's being broadcast[/b]. This includes the use of devices such as a [b]computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder."
[/b]
[url= http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/ ]http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/[/url]

There is no longer any statement about it being illegal to own a TV itself without a licence.

its a toaster 😉

So, erm, how do you "prove" you haven't been watching real-time broadcasts?

Nobody, Nooobody rocks up to me on my front door step and just walks in at their discretion.

Only Customs & Excise can enter your home without a warrant. TV Licensing folk can be regarded in the same way as double-glazing salesmen and knife-sharpeners.

No license and don't watch live broadcasts (News 24 online for example). Use iPlayer, 4oD, ITV Player etc.

Wrote the licensing people a letter (recorded delivery) saying they were welcome to inspect the property, but only under the following conditions (for 'security reasons' - useful clause!)

1. Two weeks written notice of date and time of inspection.
2. Only available Saturday or Sunday, unless they are willing to reimburse me for time taken off work.
3. Name and ID number of inspector - anybody else will be denied entry.

Not heard anything from them, probably realising they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried any legal threats.

I have not denied them entry to our house - quite the opposite, I have welcomed them in....

wait, you will get loads and loads of threatening letters soon, worded badly with things like "YOU ARE GOING TO BE FINED £1000 (if you watch tv)" and "SOME INFORMATION YOU WILL REQUIRE WHEN YOU ARE IN COURT" following dozens of phone calls where I told them over and over that I didn't watch TV I started sending their letters back with equally misleading messages such as "I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE" and "I ATE YOUR CAT!" It didn't help, but made me feel better in a childish way!

Mr Woppit - Member
So, erm, how do you "prove" you haven't been watching real-time broadcasts?

think they've opened 15 investigations about me so far! 😀

Mr Woppit - Member
So, erm, how do you "prove" you haven't been watching real-time broadcasts?

I dare say you can't, but the onus would be on them to prove you had, not on you to prove you hadn't.

[i]Only Customs & Excise can enter your home without a warrant[/i]

Well, thats no reason not to [b]ask nicely[/b].

To arrive and enter unannouced might make things a tad messy.
😉

Only Customs & Excise can enter your home without a warrant.

So can the police. Not just because they feel like it mind, but in a number of scenarios they can.

but in a number of scenarios they can.

So can the police.

and the gas people IIRC

I don't notify the DVLA that I haven't got a car, the police that I don't have a firearm, the local trout farm that I'm not fishing; why should you lot be any different?

It's English law isn't it, so it'll be something wooly like "reasonable suspicion" I expect.

and the gas people IIRC

I had a guy turn-up on my doorstep many years ago when I didn't own a TV. He asked if he could inpsect the property so I stood back and told him to knock himself out.

I had the samething. Hes still here, down in the cellar along with the Avon Lady. They don't say much but the smells stopped.

In the highly unlikely event of them turning up on your doorstep, they're trespassing and should be gently reminded of this

Legal BS of the week!

Have we covered the mystery TV detection vans yet in this topic?

http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Detector%20vans.htm

sorry for the hijack, do the reasons in these scenarios have to be cited beforehand or can they be made up written down in the paper work after the front door is in splinters and nefarious activities have/have not been ascertained? just wondering.

Well, the grounds for forcing entry have to be present beforehand, yes, although the occupier doesn't necessarily have to be informed of what's about to happen. It's considered bad form to just put doors in for shits and giggles, then make up a reason afterwards.

If you're interested, here's a link explaining police powers of entry in E and W - [url= http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_system_index_ew/police_powers.htm#Powersofentry ]CAB[/url]

I had this a couple of times 'hello do you have a tv on the premises'?

No

'Do you mind if I come in and check'

No you can't. Bye.

.....then once I received a call at work 'erm the TV licence man came and I erm let him in'. Do'h.

Ever since mrshora paid the fee 🙄

Is it wrong? Who cares.

Legal BS of the week!

Well, ok. If you ask them to leave and they refuse, they're trespassing. As I understand it, anyway; quite happy to be proved wrong.

I've got a fun situation with the TV license people at the moment - I keep getting demands in the name of a business that previously occupied the address. I've got a perfectly valid license for the actual address but the people I've rung and written to appear to be unable to remove the non-existant address from the system.

I've given up; I hope they take me to court where I shall wear my perfectly valid license as a paper hat.

no rights of entry and the only evidence they can ghave for this woud be an admission by you anyway
Had a few issues as I used to not own a TV and had b & w for a while

the Black & white one th einspector said he had never ever turned up at someoens house and seena B & w tv before

When I did not have one and they asked why apparently
Take a wild ****ing guess

will be deemed insufficient information
tellin gthem tv is shit [ poo but ruder] is ok
HTH

BBC is wrth the money IMHO but it would be be very easy to avoid paying and nigh on impossble to get caught unless you admitted to it

although the occupier doesn't necessarily have to be informed of what's about to happen.

it would be be very easy to avoid paying and nigh on impossble to get caught unless you admitted to it

In short, no. In reality, a lot of the time a supervisor would be told first, so they know what you're doing, and it would get logged on the incident record, but there's no official request or anything like that that must be made.

Gas companies do actually require permission to access a private property. If for instance, someone runs up debts and doesn't pay and also won't allow the gas company access to remove the meter then they can apply for a warrant in court to access the property with a locksmith without prior warning to get the meter out.

I used to work evenings as a TV Licensing Officer, here's how it worked:

The leg work was subbed out to one of the debt collection agencies that I still work for. It is batched in postcodes and I had a preferential list of the postcodes that I would like the work allocated to me - all in the same town. This obviously meant that I covered the same areas on a regular basis (crucial point).

TV Licences are 'attached' to addresses NOT names and it is the missing and mis-matched addresses that create the calling lists when cross-referenced to the address database. ie, if an address on the database does not have a licence match then that address then becomes targetted. This can be for a variety of reasons and that is why a visit is made.

As a Licensing Officer it was my job to call at an address and find out why there was no licence registered, and also 'sell' a licence should one be required. Often the house would be unoccupied, sometimes demolished. I was paid a small fee (25p per house I think) for logging this information. If the door was answered and the occupier had a valid licence, but had recently moved in and not informed TVL, then I was paid a fee (£3.50 I think) to record the info so that the database could be updated.

If the door was answered and a licence was required (if you call in an evening when most households have the telly on it's obvious they're watching and the vast majority admit so there and then) then I had a range of options to sign them up to. Weekly payment cards, monthly payment cards, cheque, cash (yes really, folk used to hand me £125 in cash quite regularly!!) or a direct debit. Each option earned me a fee of between £7.00 and £11.00, with a DD being most lucrative. In the vast majority of cases I would come away from these houses with a 'sale' as folk filled their pants when they found a TVL bloke stood on their doorstep.

Now, moving on to the crux of the OP's original question, no, I had no right of entry at all. Whenever I came across a property where the occupier claimed to have no TV then I would always politely ask for a quick look round downstairs to confirm this. Again, most folk were happy for me to do so and it took less than 10 seconds to poke my head round a couple of doors then be on my way again. If denied access I'd walk away, no problem. However, the knock-on effect of each scenario were quite different as I had codes to note how the visit went on my paperwork.

In the case of those that let me in, all the threatening letters stopped and they stopped being inundated with TVL mail. Also, whenever that address subsequently appeared on my list I noted that I'd checked inside, and that then stopped the mail for another extended period. I'd knock on the door maybe once a year and the householder was usually grateful that by doing my job their 'hassle' had dramatically reduced or stopped altogether.

In the case of those that refused (politely or otherwise) the mail didn't stop. In fact it probably increased. The address then became focussed on and Enforcement Officers (with warrants) started to take an interest. I used to scan the 'Court in Brief' section of the local paper and plenty of familiar names/addresses regularly appeared with fines for being caught with a telly and no valid licence.

For what it's worth, I'd say that you've more to gain by inviting the chap to have a quick peek inside. The chances are he's on commission and trying to get round as many houses as possible to earn a wage (and not really interested at all in your lifestyle) and that you'll get a lot less of the kind of mail that seems to incite so much vitriol and high blood pressure on here.

Gas companies do actually require permission to access a private property.

I was thinking more to responding to a gas leak

TSA - interesting reading, thanks for posting.

"The address then became focussed on and Enforcement Officers (with warrants) started to take an interest"

An "enforcement officer" is no different to a "TV Licensing officer"
They use the words Enforcement and officer to scare the public into thinking they have some sort of legal power. They have no right of entry into your house whatsoever. A warrant can only be obtained from a court if the TV licensing can prove that there is reasonable grounds to believe you need a tv licence. Then the police have to visit with the warrant. Of the ones that do get fined,nearly all after admitting thay are using a tv and do not have a licence only get a couple of hundred quid fine.
I have been getting letters for 3 yrs to a property that doesn't even have a house, only stables. They are just the same recycled ones, designed to scare you..
The link to the BBCtv licensing site posted earlier in thresd is full of usefull info.
http://www.bbctvlicence.com/index.htm

Also they haven't changed the rules, its never been the case that you need a licence simply to own a TV (well for at least the past thirty years or so anyhow).

You don't need a license to own a TV, as they have 'other' uses than receiving terrestrial TV ... xbox, ps3, media centre, etc.

Do you not have to pay a TV license to watch I-Player?

Nope, provided it's not 'live' like News24

Hence they don't make many shows available until they have finished broadcasting on TV.

Sherlock, for example.

No.

(Discussed earlier on this thread)

wonder if that will change, seems odd

just to add to the SA's post about you having more to gain by letting the man in for a nosey. You do for a period of time and then, maybe 6-12 months later, all the regular red threatening letters just start again.

The BBC are considering charging for iPlayer.

The BBC are considering charging for iPlayer.

It's like they [i]want [/i]people to stop using it.

The BBC are considering charging for iPlayer.

I once refused them entry and they said they would come back with a warrant.

Did they?

Is it wrong? Who cares.

Yes. Me. Watching it without paying for it makes you little better than someone who does any petty crime really.

OK anyone know why if I buy an HDMI lead in Sainsburys and use a self service checkout it says "approval needed" the on screen guff says something about a TV license???

So I use my laptop onto a projector with an HDMI lead, what part of that needs a TV license??

Laptop has the potential to receive live broadcasts, making it eligible for TV license (though that's a little blurry due to it being portable, but i think it still needs to be covered by a house license). All sellers of live-broadcast-receiving equipment are legally bound to supply the address of the buyer to the TVL people IIRC. You just don't know it's happening more often than not.

Why are so many on here paranoid about letting some one in their house for a 30 second check? Is STW full of nutters with bodies hanging from meat hooks in the living room and forests of cannabis plants in the back bedroom?
To me it's simple, no live TV broadcasts or recording equipment for live broadcasts then no need for a licence.
Any one who is caught cheating should be sent round to a STW forum members house for hanging on a meat hook.
I think I may have done a Clarkson 🙂
Just realised a slight flaw in my plan as the licence dodger won't be allowed into the house for hanging. Back to the drawing board.

So has there been any 'freedom of information' type request to find out what percentage of households claim to not watch broadcast TV? There must be a lot that genuinely don't watch, but there must be many more Hora types that just don't pay cause they don't want to. (until he got caught)

Watching it without paying for it makes you little better than someone who does any petty crime really.

Really? Your broadcasting stuff all over the country and its wrong for people to receive it?
If you want me to pay for it stop sending it to me please!

EDIT I have a licence by the way I just disagree with the concept of it and the way they go about it.
If I didn't have better things to worry about I wouldn't pay it either.

Why are so many on here paranoid about letting some one in their house for a 30 second check?

Why are the TVLA unable to take your word for it?

or simply use their 'detector vans' 😆 to give them a definitive answer?

Surely if you watch I player then you should pay a fee? After all it is the fee that provides for that service?

And yes the gas emergency service can enter without your permission if they suspect a major breach of the gas safety regs, such as a leak, or to vent your property following a leak in an adjacent property. Mind you for a leak they would probably just dig the road up and cap you off. And shame they didn't gain access to all the flats to me locally following a leak outside. Couldn't get into one of them, heating switched on in the evening and boom.......

TSA.

Good post.

[i]and that you'll get a lot less of the kind of mail that seems to incite so much vitriol and high blood pressure on here[/i]

This pretty much perfectly sums up my point as it describes the mindset of the TVLA as thus:

" We are the TVLA.
We hold records on your address.
You will prove to us, to our satisfaction.
That you're not a Perp.
If you do not help us.
We will bombard you with mail.
We will bombard you with inspectors.
You will live in fear of being found out and fined.
Give us what we demand, or otherwise.... "

It gets my back up and for that reason I refuse to assist and comply.

Ask nicely and I'll do whatever I can to help anyone.
Threaten or try to intimdate me ?, and its the Archers salute from me.

[i]Surely if you watch I player then you should pay a fee? After all it is the fee that provides for that service[/i]

I don't think anyone here is asking to get services for free.
Seems to me we're all in agreement that if you watch it, you should pay for it.
Whether thats the cinema, TV, the theatre, etc, etc.

But, the TVLA have earnt themselves a particularly unliked position in this country for the way they set about collecting their revenue.
imo.

Anything you use to receive live broadcasts needs to be licenced. If the broadcast is delayed such as on IPlayer etc then you don't need a licence no matter what you choose to watch it on. It really is as simple as that!

I imagine the next step in the evolution of iPlayer is giving people who log their licence details access to 'live' broadcasts of content (Sherlock, Dr Who etc), and delaying the catch-up function so it won't appear for at least 24 hours.

Why are so many on here paranoid about letting some one in their house for a 30 second check?

Nothing to do with paranoia, it's the principle of the thing. Why do they need to check? Because they think you're lying. Guilty until proven innocent. Bugger that.

My personal view is if you consume any BBC output (website, TV, Radio, iPlayer etc) then you should have a licence. Why should you not contribute towards the BBC? If you don't use any BBC output then fine, otherwise get a licence. For the amount of output, it is cheap.

(If you get a licence then the TVLA is not an issue - assuming that their records are accurate)

Regarding iPlayer charging. There are moves afoot within the BBC to make available all their archive that you can download and keep. As such there will be costs that the BBC incur (royalty payments, IT costs, etc) and the BBC are planning to charge for this. Given the wealth of information that the Beeb has this is not unreasonable.

I don't need a TV licence because i don't have a TV. Perfectly happy to watch a few bits on i player and listen to the radio without buying a licence. If BBC chose to charge for iplayer then i'd probably not bother with it. Likening me to a petty thief when I'm using something that's freely available just proves you have issues 🙂

My personal view is if you consume any BBC output (website, TV, Radio, iPlayer etc) then you should have a licence. Why should you not contribute towards the BBC?

That's not how the system works though, it's quite possible to legally be required to have a licence even though you don't consume any BBC output.

[i]My personal view is if you consume any BBC output (website, TV, Radio, iPlayer etc) then you should have a licence. Why should you not contribute towards the BBC? If you don't use any BBC output then fine, otherwise get a licence. For the amount of output, it is cheap.[/i]

My personal view is that you should read the thread 😉
AFAIK, nobody is asking to watch the Beeb for free.

Reading the thread ?.
[b]FAIL[/b]

nobody is asking to watch the Beeb for free

Some people have said that they don't have a licence but watch BBC output (BBC 24 hour news, iPlayer) - in that case that are watching teh Been for free. Or have I missed the point.

Likening me to a petty thief when I'm using something that's freely available just proves you have issues

I am not accusing anyone of being a petty thief. The point that I was making (badly) is that someone has to pay for the Beeb and that in the UK we choose to do this via the licence fee. The BBC is not free, most of us pay for it.

The whole issue of having to have a licence if you don't consume any BBC output is a tough question. The alternatives do not make good reading.

I do realise that my original posting did wander off the main thread, however others have also wandered. I was responding to those who said that they didn't have a licence but watched the BBC via iPlayer.

Some people have said that they don't have a licence but watch BBC output (BBC 24 hour news, iPlayer) - in that case that are watching teh Been for free.

It gets my back up and for that reason I refuse to assist and comply.

D0NK

Slight flaw in your STW comparison - adverts displayed to the forum users pays for the forum.

The Beeb don't have adverts.