[Closed] Toulouse shooting

Two nut jobs. One who cracked under financial/tour pressure and the other who shot students then readily gave himeself up? give up. You might as well lump another nut, Timothy McVey in there.

Iraq wasn't invaded for Christianity. It was invaded for hidden economic reasons by the US primarily.

In addition, Israel and the history of the land/Jews goes back centuries. They feel they were and are reclaiming their own land.

Yes there are nutjobs within Israel (aren't there anywhere) but they are fighting over land.

Go over to Iraq and look at the inter-tribe and Sunni/Shia ultra-violence to muddy things further. How many did the US/UK actually kill in their war and how many have died since at the hands of fellow Muslims? 100,000 and counting since the end of the 'war'.
(Yes, this is still blood on Bliar's hands).

Look at Afghanistan and watch what happens when the UK/US leave....they're will be alot of bloodshed and interfighting again..

You're just making excuses and applying double standards hora.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849 ]i take it all back, christianity is a wondrous thing[/url]

Hora, do Catholics have a responsibility to go on marches against paedophilia? Otherwise we might suppose they are paedophile sympathisers?

idiotic bigots will always want to blame these crimes on the object of their prejudices as the hatred helps them to self validate.. when can we start calling idiotic bigots terrorists too..?

Yep.. that's the sensible thing to do.. pretend that the inspiration for their violence doesn't really exist and (fingers crossed) it will just go away.

🙄

murdering in the name of the god of consumerism is better than murdering in the name of some other god..?
is that right..?

Did you pretend that you were a cowboy when you were a kid..? or that you were an indian..?

I don't hear of Christians blowing themselves and innocents up in Madrid, London, Israel, New York or chopping the heads off of others though.

I seem to recall that Christians in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland can get a bit explodey, shooty and kneecappy.

I heard that Catholic priests can be a bit kid fiddly, and rather than stopping it, the Vatican try and cover it up.

Evangelical Republicans in the US are waging a war on women's rights on a near-daily basis, trying to prevent access to contraception, abortion and cancer screening services.

Every religion seems to have its nutjobs...

There's also non-religious nutjobs.

Yay! \o/

do Catholics have a responsibility to go on marches against paedophilia? Otherwise we might suppose they are paedophile sympathisers?

but they are aren't they?

Hora, do Catholics have a responsibility to go on marches against paedophilia? Otherwise we might suppose they are paedophile sympathisers?

We diverge and diverge... so if we need to arc off from the subject how about grooming vunerable girls for sex in the north/midlands? 😉

Hora its not arcing off the point, you are applying one set of rules to one group which you don't apply to another.

What point are you trying to make about the grooming? That Muslims are bad?

No its a counter-comment to you implying that Catholics are paedo's fella.

:facepalm:

That wasn't the point I was making at all hora. I was in fact pointing out that implying that Catholics are all paedos or that they all need to prove they aren't is the same as the way you talk about Muslims.

And Berm Bandit, yes probably, but do do Muslims. And we don't tend to make the same generalisations about ordinary Catholics.

Hmm, 28 minutes without a post. President Sarkozy only asked for a minute's silence you know. All the kids in my son's class, Muslim and Christian observed the silence with good grace apparently.

murdering in the name of the god of consumerism is better than murdering in the name of some other god..?
is that right..?

Anyone who kills another in the name of anything is pretty screwed up in my book... especially religion.

but...

There is a specific deluded rhetoric amongst a certain section of modern western society (shown to full effect on this very thread) who, although supposedly atheist/agnostic, view it as perfectly acceptable to post facts about wrongdoings by Christians throughout history yet refuse to accept the same about more recent Islamic inspired atrocities.

People purporting to be against religion yet denying the criticism of a specific one is akin to a coward trapped in a room full of rabid dogs, only having the balls to kick out at the one least likely to bite them back. Ultimately a cowardly and complete waste of time.

Hmm, 28 minutes without a post. President Sarkozy only asked for a minute's silence you know.

Marine Le Pen couldn't keep her cakehole shut, mind you. Funny how she was very silent until this morning about the whole thing... 🙄

So after pretty much all the media blaming the 'right', turns out it was Islamic terrorists..

complete waste of time.

oh dear.. my point is obviously flying way over your head kiddo.. I can do no more here as to argue with a fool only proves that there are two..

enjoy the rest of your day.. 8)

People purporting to be against religion yet denying the criticism of a specific one is akin to a coward trapped in a room full of rabid dogs, only having the balls to kick out at the one least likely to bite them back. Ultimately a cowardly and complete waste of time.

So who has done that exactly - quotes please.

What about the people who are keen to only pick on one religion and find flaws with that, while ignoring any issues with other religions? Got a good analogy for that?

People purporting to be against religion yet denying the criticism of a specific one is akin to a coward trapped in a room full of rabid dogs, only having the balls to kick out at the one least likely to bite them back. Ultimately a cowardly and complete waste of time.

BNP rentaquote FTW.

Hes currently hiding behind his Mother. I just wish Muslims worldwide would stand up and shout against such acts/people. Why don't they?

islamic fundamentalists are not that different from hardcore right wing values... they just usually have a different wrapping.

Well, both have one common denominator; Lack of education. They are also surrounded by sympathiser who also lack education or appreciate the benefits of education.

So who has done that exactly - quotes please

You (and others) have. Look at the posts.. Rather than condemn the atrocity and accept it was an islamic terrorist to blame, you've spent the whole morning looking for excuses and trying to justify their actions by quoting acts by the west as some form of justification.

The whole point of the thread is that it is current news.

and as for the pathetic

BNP rentaquote FTW

islamic fundamentalists are not that different from hardcore right or left wing values

I would have no problem with the french (and whoever else wants a go) using some very robust information extraction techniques on this particular piece of shit. In fact, extraordinary rendition would be fine by me if that's what they needed to do.

condemn the atrocity and accept it was an [s]islamic terrorist[/s] [b]homicidal maniac[/b] to blame

FTFY

silly billy...

condemn the atrocity and accept it was someone banging on about a book to blame

FTFY

Yunki..

It may not fit with your political views.. and this guy may indeed be a homicidal maniac but that doesnt deny the fact he IS an islamic terrorist, who the press are reporting has trained with the taliban in ****stan/afganistan and broke out of a prison over there.

To deny their reason is to help their cause.

Edit: french news reporting there were three of them (two brothers).. Seems to be a lot of these Homicidal maniacs about eh!

[IMG] [/IMG]

Well said there, Sputnik. Sums it up for me.

ok.. fair enough.. but it's all too easy to encounter narrow minded right wing loonies who just assume these people are acting on behalf of all Islam..

which is almost racist.. and doesn't help anybody..

especially when your terminology and bias is almost as bad in that it fuels ignorance..

that's all..

I don't know the full facts and without getting into police double bluffs/intelligence tricks if muslim, jewish and black people are killed in a predominantly white country I'd guess right wing nutter would be in the likely candidate list. In the same way that on manchester derby day if I heard of a guy in a city shirt beaten up by a guy in a red shirt I'd expect the police be looking at united supporters haunts for the culprit rather than the local Staples branch.

The profiling seemed reasonable to me and I guess many others elzorillo, not some media conspiracy or lack of wanting to blame muslims

but you're bang on with

Anyone who kills another in the name of anything is pretty screwed up in my book... especially religion

ets not forget he shot dead MUSLIM soldiers! There are events around the world, every day, in which heinous crimes are committed by deranged people! Remember the idiot who shot dead the Manchester student - where was his label? Christian, Jewish, Muslim?

The point I am making is we dont need to label, these people should not be allowed to hide behind a religion, or a cult to justify their actions.

Umm AQ consider western Muslim soldiers to be infidels and targets of attack. Think catholic PSNI and the IRA.

The clues were in the detail: the soldier shot in the first killing never made it clear to the potential buyer of his motorbike (the person who killed him) that he was muslim/north african, just that he was a soldier. He was killed for being a soldier not an arab/african/muslim.

The BBC reports seemed to me, to focus heavily on the killer being a far right extremist with Islamic extremism being mentioned to a lesser extent. All of this is bollocks though as they shouldn't have speculated until he was actually caught. The French police even denied that it was a likely to be right wing extremist but instead tried to correct the media saying that all options/leads/angles were being considered, they were covering their arses.

Iraq wasn't invaded for Christianity. It was invaded for hidden economic reasons by the US primarily.

In addition, Israel and the history of the land/Jews goes back centuries. They feel they were and are reclaiming their own land.

Yes there are nutjobs within Israel (aren't there anywhere) but they are fighting over land.

Go over to Iraq and look at the inter-tribe and Sunni/Shia ultra-violence to muddy things further. How many did the US/UK actually kill in their war and how many have died since at the hands of fellow Muslims? 100,000 and counting since the end of the 'war'.
(Yes, this is still blood on Bliar's hands).

Look at Afghanistan and watch what happens when the UK/US leave....they're will be alot of bloodshed and interfighting again..

This is such a load of hilarious bollocks. So Israel was right to plunge us into 60 years of war so they could reclaim their "land"? Should Pagans be allowed to reclaim Britain?

Religion played no role in the Iraq war? "Well it allowed Bush to sell the war to the American Christian right and also...did you ever read this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.html

**** Religion. Long live Hitchens.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/03/21/french-police-look-3-bomb-near-indonesian-embassy.html

Bomb explosion in Paris. It's heating up a bit, I'm going to make a completely wild guess and say that either the chap surrounded is a fall guy for another team or various cells are working together to cause confusion in the French security services. Who may have already made an almighty **** up by losing the shooter who they've been tracking for years in the first place.

Anyway... anyone notice how much fitter, scarier and more shooty the French police are than UK plod? Every single one that's appeared on the tv seem to be the "don't **** with me.... 1000 yard stare types".

I reckon I'm right

http://www.france24.com/en/20120321-toulouse-gunman-calls-france-24-before-pre-dawn-raid

"Speaking to FRANCE 24’s senior editor Ebba Kalondo for 11 minutes in “clear French”, he said that his actions were part of a “much larger campaign” and that the country could expect further attacks in Lyon, Marseille and Paris."

Classic STW Jihadist Denial in full effect 😀

elzorillo - Member

so long as it fits your political viewpoint

ernie_lynch - Member

Seriously mate, talk to someone - you've got a problem.

elzorillo - Member
So I'm 'stupid', a 'right wing sympathiser' and 'mentally ill'.

Is that the best you can do? throw personal insults?

The topic I posted is being discussed widely throughout the internet.. we all must be crazy

Well firstly there was no "personal insult" intended, you clearly appear to me to have problem. Secondly I can do much better than that if you want me to - although I'm surprised that you apparently do. Still, I've got a few minutes....

To make an absurd claim that the French authorities deliberately gave a misleading profile concerning a cold-blooded serial killer, which they knew they would almost certainly eventually catch, all because there is [i]"fear within the media of accusing certain groups within our society"[/i], and that this presumably represents some sort of political correctness gone mad incident, is stupid beyond words. And bares all the signs of someone with issues.

The profiling by the french authorities made supreme commonsense. There was nothing to indicate that this was the work of Al-Qaeda, and there still isn't, other than the claims by the gunman. Nothing about it suggested the work of Al-Qaeda, neither the tacit nor the selected targets. The preferred method of killing by Al-Qaeda tends to car bombings and suicide bombers, not the method chosen by this individual. Also Al-Qaeda hasn't got a history of specifically targeting Muslims in non-Muslims countries. Finally Al-Qaeda tends to claim responsibility for their outrages, that's the whole point of committing them. There was/is nothing in this particular case which suggests the work of Al-Qaeda, if you can't see that and you think it's all some sort of conspiracy you've got a problem.

There was however plenty to suggest that it was the work of a lone neo-nazi. There have been previous incidents where neo-nazi/far-right head-cases have been responsible for targeted violence against Muslims, Jews, and those of ethic minorities. You would have to be pretty damn stupid to be unaware of that. And the french police/authorities equally would have needed to be pretty damn stupid to not to seriously consider it a very likely probability.

No doubt you think this is just another example whereby poor ol' law abiding neo-nazis, who love their dear old mothers, are outrageously getting a bad press for no reason other than some hidden agenda by the french police/authorities. Get some help mate.

Finally I'd just like to say that the Toulouse murders were particularly vile and despicable crimes, including as it did, such things as the gunman grabbing an 8 year old girl who was running away from him by the hair, and then shooting her at point blank range. Anyone who feels the need to exploit these vile acts to satisfy their twisted sense of outrage at an alleged 'fear by the media of accusing certain groups within our society' needs help. Talk to them also about the weird paranoia which you feel concerning the bad press neo-nazis get too.

I hope you like my more extensive response elzorillo, tell me if you want more, won't you ? .... don't be shy.

For ****s sake there was no hard evidence that this was work by the far right. The whole tattoo thing was media bollocks, the guy was wearing a helmet. The guy killed the first soldier because he was a soldier and not a muslim (the man advertised himself as being a soldier when he posted the add for his motorbike).

Let's see, what recent event's could have triggered this? Burkha ban, US Afghan mass murder spree, the shooting dead of Islamic terrorists in Indonesia. There were plenty of reasons to suspect Islamic terroris as well.

A method used by insurgents inside Iraq is to bump people off with silenced pistols whilst riding a motorcycle. Remember Mumbai? AQ has become a catch all term that people use to identify with the Jihadi movement, he is most likely part of a splinter group.

There is now concrete evidence that this guy did it, so I don't see why you are saying there still isn't any and that he could be lying. He threw a ****ing .45 out the window, is armed to the teeth and has been linked to the scooter.

Ernie you are being a tool as is the poster you are replying to, you both don't get it. The French told the media that they were considering far-right extremists or Islamists, some news sources decided to jump upon the far-right line. The problem is not that there's some left wing conspiracy theory the problem is that media outlets like to jump on bandwagons too quickly....as seen by a weirdly correct Guardian article I read a few days ago, that suspected it was the work of Islamic terrorists. Shouldn't come from a left wing paper right? But it did and it was still wrong to make that judgement at that time. Why, because it clouds peoples ability to be vigilant about the situation and people may end up keeping their eyes peeled for the wrong kind of nutter. Further it sparks controversy, needless social unrest and makes the security services appear to not know what they are doing when media stories make a sudden overnight u-turn....increasing the panic.

I think Ernie's comment are one perfectly reasonable view of things. Having folllowed the French media reports from the start there has been speculation but expressed with a high level of doubt. Even the current reports simply state what the guy is saying with aminimum of hype:

[url= http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2012/03/21/01016-20120321ARTFIG00314-toulouse-le-raid-intervient-un-policier-blesse.php ]Le Figaro[/url]

I have no idea about the French news sources but the stuff in the papers over here Edukator has been beyond belief. The facts should be given and that's it, the media should let the public form their own quiet opinion without placing ideas in their heads that may be unfounded.

Within hours of the shooting I was reading articles that thought the shooting may swing the French election in Napoleon II's or Marie the fascists direction, with the tone that some writers almost wanted it to be a right wing nutter so Napoleon would win.

I have no idea about the French news sources but the stuff in the papers over here Edukator has been beyond belief.......
Within hours of the shooting I was reading articles that thought the shooting may swing the French election in Napoleon II's or Marie the fascists direction, with the tone that some writers almost wanted it to be a right wing nutter so Napoleon would win.

Heuresement que les voteurs francais ne lisent pas beaucoup les journaux anglais.

bwaarp - Member

For **** sake there was no hard evidence that this was work by the far right.

I didn't hear anyone claim there was any hard evidence that this was work by the far right. What's your media source bwaarp ? I suspect you just made that up.

A method used by insurgents inside Iraq ......

What's that got to do with it ?

I don't see why you are saying there still isn't any and that he could be lying.

Erm, I would take too seriously the utterances of a lone nutter who's just gone on a shooting spree.

The nutter in Norway claimed to be a member of the Knights Templar Society and Freemason. I just like to think of him as a nutter.

What I meant was, is that you appeared to be saying that there was initially more evidence for the attack being caused by right-wing extremists. I dispute that.

On the topic of him just being a nutter as opposed to someone with a background in Islamic militancy. Well before the bomb in France exploded he rang France 24 and told them there would be an attack in Paris. There was. Coincidence then? This is a man who was known to the intelligence services as having operated in Afghanistan and ****stan.

AQ are thought to changing their method of attacks because shootings are cheaper and often have a greater effect than suicide bombings or truck bombs.

Napoleon II was in power a couple of times in 1814/15 but he's not a candidate in these elections due to being dead.

Good point Edukator, Napoleon III then? You know who I mean. Smart arse. 😀

Napoleon III lost a war with Germany in 1870ish and died shortly after.