[Closed] Tottenham Riots

Your sudden concern for maltreated criminals is remarkable, given that just a few posts ago, you were wanting to kill them...

Mr Woppit - Member
Do you have evidence that Norwegian patients are having drugs "forced" upon them?

And if they are - are these "bad" drugs that will not help?

Just waiting for this sudden downpour to stop, so's I can actually go out... 🙄

ILMG v Woppit.

Good luck et bon chance, ILMG....

On the BBC this morning, I saw a man trying to shout over the local MP calling for 'Justice'. Would somebody please explain what he wanted?

A known serious criminal carrying a gun was shot dead by Police in what seems like an exchange of fire. The whole incident will now be subject to intense scrutiny by the IPCA. If that's not justice I don't know what is.

As much as people would love to believe that the Police shot without cause, the officer concerned must have had just reason to believe he was in danger. Think of the consequences to him professionally and personally now that he has to live with killing somebody.

This isn't a case of racism, or any form of discrimination other than a criminal getting what was coming his way. How may of his victims had their cases so strongly supported? What about 'justice' for them.

I don't mean to suggest that he deserved to have been killed, but he was free in the community rather than behind bars. His victims didn't have such freedom from his crimes.

In our efforts to remain PC, we do seem to have tipped the balance somewhat towards the rights of the perpetrator rather than the victim.

I dearly hope that some of the comments on both sides of the argument are trolling.

I would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?

I would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?

neninja - Member

I dearly hope that some of the comments on both sides of the argument are trolling.

Elfinsafety - Member

Soz to disappoint, but nope, not a troll at all.

Apparently not, in at least one case...

I would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?

Here's something for you to be going on with:

http://www.countercurrents.org/polya230109.htm

Oh ffs STOP BLOODY RAINING!!!!! 😡

Elfinsafety - Member
I would love Elfin to explain how Churchill is responsible for genocide?
Here's something for you to be going on with:

http://www.countercurrents.org/polya230109.htm

Oh ffs STOP BLOODY RAINING!!!!!

yes history is just like that.....

From a comment on Teh Grauniad;

Last night I was so angry with people who choose this way to destroy my community. I live in Tottenham and I have been sick of the sneery ways that people regard us. Some of the 'twitter jokes' last night were really really sad and almost broke my heart with the way that some people thought this was a big joke or that Tottenham isn't 'worth saving'.

There are a lot of very good people here. The looting wasn't a part of the demonstration. People came from all over London to 'join in' and the community I live in has been ruined.
Now, beyond the anger, I'm sad, desperately sad.
This wasn't just about a policing, this was about mindless violence and aggression by disaffected and alienated youth and not just in Tottenham.
Meanwhile the people I know, the shops I visit, my neighbours have had their lives ripped apart and the community which is wracked by poverty and joblessness is further labeled and further disadvantaged.
I don't want people to think that Tottenham is a hopeless place. It is my home and my community and I love living here but I really truly despise people who have destroyed it.

Sums it up for me.

Ilovemygears you say the death penalty would stop you committing crime. Do not the liberal wishy washy punishments in this country have the same effect on you? or is there something you need to confess to the group?

Maybe they want to celebrate the positive aspect of his life, and what he meant to them. He wasn't born a drug dealer...

Oh you silly, silly naive relativist; sadly I've known, lived with, and watched junkies die their sordid, sad lives. Dealers are parasitic scum living off their own communities and should not be mourned for a minute. "Positive aspect of his life." **** that, I can only imagine you're still grooving to your Gary Glitter discs and bemoaning the cruelty of all those nasty judgemental types.

HeathenWoods - Member
Maybe they want to celebrate the positive aspect of his life, and what he meant to them. He wasn't born a drug dealer...
Oh you silly, silly naive relativist; sadly I've known, lived with, and watched junkies die their sordid, sad lives. Dealers are parasitic scum living off their own communities and should not be mourned for a minute. "Positive aspect of his life." **** that, I can only imagine you're still grooving to your Gary Glitter discs and bemoaning the cruelty of all those nasty judgemental types.

now that hit several nails on the head very hard all at once!

cfhs quote summed it up

i lived in north london for a while and worked with kids from haringey and tottenham, some of them were from nice middle class families some from not so nice situations all of them were great kids,
only as they got older they became more dissafected, as said before lack of good role models and desperately underfinded an innefectual social services (baby p was just down the road too) mean that the kids from the crappier parts realise that they wont be going to uni, they wont be going on holiday this year, they wont be driving a nice audi when they turn 17, tehy wont be getting an ipad for xmas etc etc

the real tragedy here is that such a large part of the richest city in the country is so desperately poor,

thats the real reason for this, poverty- 30 years on from the last tottenham riots there is an even bigger gap between these kids and the children of the city boys whos sky scrapers they can see from their tower blocks or ally pally

i lived in north london for a while and worked with kids from haringey and tottenham, some of them were from nice middle class families some from not so nice situations all of them were great kids,
only as they got older they became more dissafected, as said before lack of good role models and desperately underfinded an innefectual social services (baby p was just down the road too) mean that the kids from the crappier parts realise that they wont be going to uni, they wont be going on holiday this year, they wont be driving a nice audi when they turn 17, tehy wont be getting an ipad for xmas etc etc

Oh God, I wish I hadn't started this now.
Not the thread- the riot
It was me you see 😀

and fwiw heres someone trying to make a difference in tottenham
[url= http://www.thetrax.co.uk/ ]http://www.thetrax.co.uk/[/url]

that's not a treason to be a criminal, lots of very rich people started of with nowt, they need a quality eduction provided by the state. Class dosent effect youre IQ.

or your ability to spell?

kimbers - I think you are right but what is that makes these disaffected & disadvantaged youths think they can behave like this when the ones I have worked with in Africa are the most positive, upbeat and honest people I've met? And the kids in Swaziland could show the Tottenham youth what poor really looks like - owning a pair of shoes and eating more than a bowl of maize once a day are quite unrealistic goals for some these kids yet they are still such upstanding individuals (in a society with more corrupton within the police et al and reasons for disaffection than we could even dream of here). I guess it's the geographic immediacy of wealth in their faces that makes them as they are or the delusions we roll out about all being equal with equal chances that get found out, or just some seriously warped western values shown at their most ugly.

kimbers - Member
that's not a treason to be a criminal, lots of very rich people started of with nowt, they need a quality eduction provided by the state. Class dosent effect youre IQ.
or your ability to spell?

Nobodys actually managed to say, where Boris is, and all the members ofthe governmeet, along with cameroon and the the other one.

Oh and tomorrow we will have the stock market crashing, along with more copy cat rioting/looting/wealth realignment going on.

Panic on the streets of London

hopefully it will continue to rain here in North London, the rioters won't want to get their new kicks wet

hopefully it will continue to rain here in North London, the rioters won't want to get their new kicks wet

That's got to be one of the most sensible comments on this thread so far.. 8)

kimbers - I think you are right but what is that makes these disaffected & disadvantaged youths think they can behave like this when the ones I have worked with in Africa are the most positive, upbeat and honest people I've met? And the kids in Swaziland could show the Tottenham youth what poor really looks like - owning a pair of shoes and eating more than a bowl of maize once a day are quite unrealistic goals for some these kids yet they are still such upstanding individuals (in a society with more corrupton within the police et al and reasons for disaffection than we could even dream of here).

Um, S Africa is one of the most violent countries in the world. But perhaps the kids you worked with were less exposed to the constant bombardment of advertising that suggests your worth is closely tied to how shiny/expensive your new trainers are?

As above though, it's not just absolute poverty - relative poverty causes all sorts of social problems, and not just for the 'envious' poorer people. And the gap between rich and poor (and the rate by which it increases) in this country is getting bigger and bigger all the time.

exactly if i can make it any one can

You've 'made it'? God help us.

Oh you silly, silly naive relativist; sadly I've known, lived with, and watched junkies die their sordid, sad lives. Dealers are parasitic scum living off their own communities and should not be mourned for a minute. "Positive aspect of his life." **** that, I can only imagine you're still grooving to your Gary Glitter discs and bemoaning the cruelty of all those nasty judgemental types.

Do what?

Where did I say a 'dealer should be mourned'? Where?

What I did say, which you obverussly din't read through all your steaming bile, was that maybe those who lost a loved member of their family might have wanted to pay tribute to someone they saw some good in. Don't they have the right to do so? I dare say those close to Tony Blair will want to commemorate his life when he passes...

As for the rest of your post; go and have a lie down. Sounds like you need it.

What I did say, which you obverussly din't read through all your steaming bile, was that maybe those who lost a loved member of their family might have wanted to pay tribute to someone they saw some good in.

No mate, no steaming bile just no time for dealers. If a family wants to cvelebrate their beloved dealer-in-the-family and the luxuries their death pimping bring, well, **** 'em too. (And no, no time for arms dealers, investment bankers etc either; soulless, exploitative capitalists - whichever side of the 'law' they operate on - *can* be judged for the scumbags they are.)

No seriously, please go and have a lie down. You must be very tired. You'll do yourself a mischief if you carry on being so wound up.

Are you constipated?

I have reached the conclusion that "ilovemygears" is actually a very clever troll, possibly one of the other regulars in disguise, who has initiated a situation in which all the "Daily Mail" flogem-and-hangem tendencies can exercise their need to froth at the mouth, and also expose the damaged crippled underbelly of modern Britain that is represented here in microcosm. The upside is that they also get exposed to a reasoned level of rebuttal, which may have the chance of penetrating their knee-jerk, emotional response defences.

I mean:

they need a quality eduction provided by the state. Class dosent effect youre IQ.

This so heavily laced with intelligent irony that I just can't believe the writer isn't a comedy genius.

Troll of the year. My hat. Off.

Yeah but troll or not; I find it a bit disturbing that there are genuinely people out there who are that ignorant and blinkered.

I think the quote that Flashy posted is very poignant indeed. 🙁

Yes.

The whole incident will now be subject to intense scrutiny by the IPCA. [b]If that's not justice I don't know what is[/b].

😯

Anyone?

Given that the media has recently been awash with stories about police corruption, and that these regular indications of the fact that venality and self-interest are as endemic within the police force as anywhere else and that, as Elfin says, even nice "white" middle-class people are unlikely to automatically trust the police these days:

Yes, you don't know what justice is.

How's that?

It will be interesting to see what the truth actually is here about the shot man.

Youth worker Michelle Jackson, 43, ................

"I knew the person that was shot, he's a really nice guy, and they're making him out to be some kind of gangster involved in guns and all that kind of stuff.

Indeed.

"They're making their presence known because people are not happy," she said. "This guy was not violent. Yes, he was involved in things, but he was not an aggressive person."

To be fair, Teej, people do tend to come forward and say positive things about someone who's just died.

At the end of it all, there's 4 young children who have lost their daddy. Whatever the whys and wherefores, we, as a society, ought to be working together to ensure their futures are brighter and more positive.

This thread doesn't suggest that such a thing is about to miraculously happen though. 🙁

Indeed - they always do. It will be interesting tho when the truth comes out as it will.

it is easier to be critical than correct

No seriously, please go and have a lie down. You must be very tired. You'll do yourself a mischief if you carry on being so wound up.

Why do you think I'm wound up? You're not very good at reading people so I'd stop trying to do it - you're onto a loser on that path.

Pleased you can keep sidestepping reality; some people need other means to do so but for you it seems natural.

The plot thickens..

The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet.

These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.

The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police

yup lefty muck stirring channel4 news was hinting at the same thing earlier
confidence in the met is so low with regards to killing people and then issuing missinformation/lying about it afterwards that these rumours are likely to stick with a lot of people

If early reports are to be believed its kicking off in Enfield as I type.

😯

kimbers - Member

yup lefty muck stirring channel4 news

Yeah, the muck should be left where it is, eh?

i should have added a 😉 im a fully paid up whining guardian reading john snow fanboy