If you really think that a) the players were unaware that they'd made a mistake, and b) shouting at them to sort themselves out helps them to avoid repeating their mistake, I can only hope that you are not and never will be involved with coaching children.
You'll be glad to hear that I will indeed never be involved with coaching children. Sod that
The comment about the coach telling them to sort themselves out was tongue in cheek, followed up by my comment that oldfart could have possibly worded it better.
But... if the boys are being rubbish, they need to be told. Who knows if they worked it out for themselves, mollycoddling them to avoid hurting their feelings isn't going to improve them, they'll just carry on being complacent - that's the point of the coach, Shirley
You'll be glad to hear that I will indeed never be involved with coaching children. Sod that
Yes it's much better to offer unsolicited advice from the peanut gallery.
But... if the boys are being rubbish, they need to be told.
They need to be told?
Sure, if they get to the stage where they are pros then you'd hope they would have figured it out by then. And if they haven't figured it out by then, that's a good indication they probably shouldn't be pursuing careers as professional cricketers.
I guess it depends what you consider the purpose of kids' sports to be. If it's a funnel in order to filter out the dross and produce the next World Cup winning team then shouting at the kids when they cock up is probably the right way to go.
If you are trying to instill a feeling of enjoyment and acceptance in order to make having an active lifestyle a habit that they take with them into old age then I'd say the best bet is to make sure they are enjoying themselves whilst using coaching sessions to make any improvements in the game that are needed.
One of grandsons teammates said to him " Don't swing at the ball you idiot"
" Don't swing at the ball" <<<< Yes, do this
"you idiot" <<< why would they add this?
super simple stuff really
Because they are 12 year old boys?
How are they going to improve if they're not told where they can make improvements?
"don't swing at the ball"
"don't call your teammate an idiot"
Because they are 12 year old boys?
How are they going to improve if they're not told where they can make improvements?
"don't swing at the ball"
"don't call your teammate an idiot"
I'm not condoning calling anyone an idiot, but to genuinely question why a 12yo boy would do such a thing just reaffirms some of the ridiculous hand wringing that is going off in this thread. It's what boys do
I was born in the late 70s and so was at Primary school in the 80s and secondary in the 90s. I really struggled with school because I was a (then) undiagnosed Autistic. The bullying (not just from the other kids) was incredibly bad and nobody did anything. Back then you were just the weird kid. This applies here because I am coming from this from the other side in that ALL i ever got was criticism of everything I did. Nothing I could do was right and what they wanted seemed to change daily. This has had huge consequences for my life and self esteem ever since. Maybe if something positive was said every now and again I wouldn't be a depressed,anxious,fat,borderline alcoholic,failure.
If you really think that a) the players were unaware that they'd made a mistake, and b) shouting at them to sort themselves out helps them to avoid repeating their mistake, I can only hope that you are not and never will be involved with coaching children.
You'll be glad to hear that I will indeed never be involved with coaching children. Sod that
The comment about the coach telling them to sort themselves out was tongue in cheek, followed up by my comment that oldfart could have possibly worded it better.
But... if the boys are being rubbish, they need to be told. Who knows if they worked it out for themselves, mollycoddling them to avoid hurting their feelings isn't going to improve them, they'll just carry on being complacent - that's the point of the coach, Shirley
It's not about mollycoddling - it's not a test match, they're kids playing a game, randoms shouting "sort it out" from the sidelines won't help. The worst thing about watching professional football is the advice and critique from the crowd - it does nothing to improve your team and the angrier it gets, the more miserable the experience for everyone involved. Not saying there's any anger here - just saying shouting from the sidelines doesn't help. It's the coach's job to sort that stuff out - just let them play.
It's what boys do
Ah yes, the old 'Boys will be boys' argument.
We're really are hitting all the talking points, aren't we...
Ah yes, the old 'Boys will be boys' argument.
We're really are hitting all the talking points, aren't we...
Out of interest, do you have kids?
My four year old grandson knows that it’s unkind and unhelpful to call someone “stupid” or an “idiot”.
It's not about mollycoddling - it's not a test match, they're kids playing a game
No context was given to the actual competetive level of this game, unless I missed it
Out of interest, do you have kids?
Yep.
And one of them is even a boy. So I have someone to leave the inheritance to...
Meanwhile, in a house somewhere.
-Dad, I don't want to go to cricket any more
-why not? I thought you loved it. You couldn't wait for the summer to start
-I did.....but......now I don't
-Why, what's changed?
-Well, there's this man has started coming....
-And?
-and all he does is shout when we mess up. It makes some of us feel bad
-And the others?
-Well they're the good players who don't mess up. But now they see an adult shouting when we mess up, they've started to do it. Billy shouted at me for messing up and called me an idiot just because I had a swing when I should have blocked it. I just don't like it any more, can I stay home and watch TV instead?
**
If anything, oldfart wasn't even spoken to - his OP says "the " officials" keeping score didn't take kindly , our daughter saw that and told me to keep quiet they weren't happy.
There then followed an explanation, apparently you aren't allowed to say anything negative any time it has to all be positive.
- from which all of this has grown. IDK Oldfart and his daughter but I can get quite robust feedback from mine (22yo) when I'm being a dick, maybe he needs to consider asking her to use less hurtful words when telling him his behaviour is not appropriate for a 12yo cricket match?
My four year old grandson knows that it’s unkind and unhelpful to call someone “stupid” or an “idiot”.
Just because you've told him, it doesn't mean he comprehends it, or understands the weight of it. And when he's 12, he'll no doubt call someone an idiot. Probably his best mate
Some of the most righteous on this thread are grown men and literally using the same language...
he'll no doubt call someone an idiot. Probably his best mate
Hopefully he'll have a coach that dissuades him. To be clear, that isn't a sign that the world has gone soft, it's good coaching. As is reining in poor behaviour on the touchline/boundary.
maybe he needs to consider asking her to use less hurtful words
Or perhaps he could try to become... more resilient?
Sorry 🙂
It's not about mollycoddling - it's not a test match, they're kids playing a game
No context was given to the actual competetive level of this game, unless I missed it
Seems to me the relevant context which was given, was "under 13s". Kids enjoying a game. Random men shouting at 12 year olds (or younger) is really not a good look. Nor is it likely to improve sporting performance (which is not the primary purpose at that age anyway) or do anything other than intimidate or put kids off sport.
he'll no doubt call someone an idiot. Probably his best mate
Hopefully he'll have a coach that dissuades him. To be clear, that isn't a sign that the world has gone soft, it's good coaching. As is reining in poor behaviour on the touchline.
Idiot.
[ see OP for why I'm using this here for effect, if you don't get it, perhaps you'd prefer some positive constructive support ]
Stop being so rubbish!
[ see your own post for that one - but you "need to be told", it seems ]
My four year old grandson knows that it’s unkind and unhelpful to call someone “stupid” or an “idiot”.
Just because you've told him, it doesn't mean he comprehends it, or understands the weight of it. And when he's 12, he'll no doubt call someone an idiot. Probably his best mate
Some of the most righteous on this thread are grown men and literally using the same language...
A four year old is quite capable of understanding the concept, it was him that chided me once. It’s counterproductive anyway to expect someone improve by insulting them.
Idiot.
[ see OP for why I'm using this here for effect, if you don't get it, perhaps you'd prefer some positive constructive support ]
Stop being so rubbish!
[ see your own post for that one - but you "need to be told", it seems ]
My point being that you are completely outraged (it would seem) on someone else's behalf at some boys calling each other idiots, yet quite happy to use that language yourself because...
It doesn't bother me in the slightest, I enjoy calling out sanctimonious hand wringers and expect some flack, but it highlights the usual stance of people such as yourself that as soon as someone has a different point of view, the insults come out - see anything to do with politics.
BTW, for anyone who didn't read your unedited post, the original version was simply calling me an idiot without your later added contextualisation
No outrage here. Perfectly at ease with the behaviour of the coach in the OP, and their expectations for their kids AND the adults there to "support" them.
the original version was simply calling me an idiot without your later added contextualisation
I doubt anyone else needed the contextualisation.
Alright - gentle encouragement to play better then. Jeez
So you see it as gentle encouragement, but plenty of people here would see it as being berated. What this should tell you is that not everyone shares your interpretation of such a comment. It's similar to e.g. a mildly sexist joke - to many people this would be harmless banter, to others offensive. Should you make such a comment and simply blame the other person for any offence? Or should you understand that what you say *might* be badly received and moderate your behaviour accordingly?
I put a lot of time and effort into understanding how people respond to what I say, because I care about being nice to others, and this relies on their perception of me, which in turn relies on how they perceive what I say. (And yes, I do realise this comment could be perceived as passive-aggressive.)
No outrage here. Perfectly at ease with the behaviour of the coach in the OP, and their expectations for their kids AND the adults there to "support" them.
Fairy muff, the thread has descended into nonsense (partly my doing) so I'll leave it there. Have a nice day
Wise.
It's a bit of a myth that kids don't get negative feedback etc in school.
I didn't even think to question that part of the OP earlier, but now that you come to mention it I think it's a very good point.
My partner is a childminder. Her training tells her not that she can't give negative feedback, but that it has to be delivered in the right way. In Arguing About **** All On STW terms we might say "play the ball, not the man." Like, she can't call a child naughty or bad, but she can still chastise naughty behaviour. (It's not my job so I don't recall exact specifics and language, but it's something along those lines.)
It would seen to me then that the issue offered in the "idiot" example may have been because they'd said "you're an idiot" - a personal attack - rather than "that's idiotic" or some variation thereof?
I'm not condoning calling anyone an idiot, but to genuinely question why a 12yo boy would do such a thing just reaffirms some of the ridiculous hand wringing that is going off in this thread. It's what boys do
"I'm not condoning calling someone an idiot, I'm just calling 'not condoning someone an idiot' hand wringing." Right you are then.
Boys do lots of things. Boys like fire; I know a boy who set fire to a church.
And boys - most of them - eventually turn into men.
Meanwhile, in a house somewhere.
-Dad, I don't want to go to cricket any more
Meanwhile, in a proudly self-described right wing house somewhere, the end of this story is that kid is being told to man up.
It would seen to me then that the issue offered in the "idiot" example may have been because they'd said "you're an idiot" - a personal attack - rather than "that's idiotic" or some variation thereof?
I fail to see the diference, see the rocket thread where idiotic is clearly intended as a personal attack along with capital letters and flouncing.. I took it as a compliment.
I'd say anyone who was in their 20s anytime between 1990 and 2008 has no right to talk about resilience.
Why?
I remember getting a bit stressy at work sometime around buying our house.
Boomer harking back to the last time the financial markets went tits up : well at least interest rates and inflation aren't 15% like they were in my day, back then we had to get bonuses and mid year pay rises just to keep up.
Me: Exactly, this mortgage is going to cost me a higher percentage of my income even with lower rate, and my pay's been frozen or ~1% rises for almost 5 years now.
If you came out of university in 2000 (i.e. your 20's completely missed the 90's as suggested) then your period of your life where you're just trying to get along, get some stability and have a family has been:
9/11
Gulf War 2
2008
14 years of the Tories
2016 (2nd crash is you worked in the energy industry)
Brexit
Covid-19
By this point the combined financial headwinds of Lizz Truss and Trumps second term are just a slightly below average Tuesday for Millennials.
But you know, we need to be more resilient and eat less avocado on toast or something.
Compare that to today. How many PMs have there been in the last 10 years? I've lost count.
I suspect all of those PM's were shouted at for being crap at sport.
I fail to see the diference, see the rocket thread where idiotic is clearly intended as a personal attack along with capital letters and flouncing.. I took it as a compliment.
You do have a knack for rubbing people up the wrong way. The only idiotic thing about it is its quite often the people who actually aren't that unaligned with your world view (from both sides)
As I mentioned earlier today it's disagreement with people you are close to that hurts the most and is the most difficult to reconcile. See also disputes within political parties among people with the same general political ideals but who disagree on the detail.
If you think I rub people up the wrong way have a think about what's rubbing them up the wrong way and whether objectively they were justified in getting angry with me about their own choices.
If you think I rub people up the wrong way have a think about what's rubbing them up the wrong way and whether objectively they were justified in getting angry with me about their own choices
I will think about that while you go and reflect on how your posts are sometimes straight up wrong, make massive assumptions about people and come across as quite offensive. Sound fair?
If you think I'm wrong on fact quote me and demonstrate it with links to back up what you have to say. If you know I'm making incorrect assumptions point it out. If you find it offensive report it, it isn't intended to be but some people are offended by things others aren't.
used AI to summarise thoughts, because I couldn't be arsed typing a badly formed braindump.
I've got to ask.... we're you expecting anyone to read it?
If you think I'm wrong on fact quote me and demonstrate it with links to back up what you have to say. If you know I'm making incorrect assumptions point it out. If you find it offensive report it, it isn't intended to be but some people are offended by things others aren't.
And some people are offensive while maybe not intending to be...
used AI to summarise thoughts, because I couldn't be arsed typing a badly formed braindump.
I've got to ask.... we're you expecting anyone to read it?
Not really that fussed big lad, it ain't that deep.
Yeh,I have noticed Edukator can be a little arrogant and patronising.The clue 🙂is in the name me thinks
Meanwhile, in a house somewhere.
-Dad, I don't want to go to cricket any more
-why not? I thought you loved it. You couldn't wait for the summer to start
-I did.....but......now I don't
-Why, what's changed?
-Well, there's this man has started coming....
-And?
-and all he does is shout when we mess up. It makes some of us feel bad
-And the others?
-Well they're the good players who don't mess up. But now they see an adult shouting when we mess up, they've started to do it. Billy shouted at me for messing up and called me an idiot just because I had a swing when I should have blocked it. I just don't like it any more, can I stay home and watch TV instead?
**
Not that it matters but I played team sports from ages 7 to 28 on average 3 times a week. I don't recall ever actually hearing what noise was going on at the side of the pitch. Most of the time I was focussing inwards on the action.
Occasionally we'd hear after the game about some idiot dad from the other team or whatever, but we didn't notice it on the pitch.
Granted I never played cricket where perhaps the sheer boredom might have left me listening for inspiration.
