[Closed] Three-point turn may be dropped from UK driving test

You missed a bit.

The DVSA said drivers may instead be asked to focus on more realistic everyday manoeuvres, such as reversing out of a parking bay, or re-joining the flow of traffic from the side of a road

The three-point turn had been abolished when I took my test in the early 90s. It was a "turn in the road using forward and reverse gears."

Makes sense. How often do you reverse around a corner? Reversing into and out of parking bays is a regular manoeuvre for a lot of drivers (and often performed poorly).

Your link lead me to this story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29278429

Glad I don't live in Mexico.

"What do I need to do to get a licence as a foreigner?" I tentatively asked the bespectacled lady behind the desk.

"A copy of your passport, your resident's card and a recent utility bill," she rattled off, barely looking up from her computer screen.

"Anything else?" I asked, assuming she was just drawing breath.

"Fill in a copy of this form and pay 677 pesos (that's about $50/£30) at one of these three supermarkets."

"That's it?" If those really were the only requirements, I could have the paperwork done by this afternoon.

"That's it" she answered firmly, making it clear that if I lingered any further I'd be wasting her time.

slowoldman - Member

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30249249

...and no reversing around a corner. Talk about dumbing down.

It's not dumbing down if they replace it with something more realistic. I haven't reversed around a corner since doing my test, ****ng pointless manouver. They should add in motorway driving, night driving, motorway merging, overtaking etc.

they should be making it harder, not easier, already too many idiots on the roads (myself included at times)

They need to include the making progress element.

I think a basic intelligence test should be included.

The test certainly doesn't need to be any easier. I often wonder how some people are allowed to drive.

Crap decision.

The three-point turn had been abolished when I took my test in the early 90s. It was a "turn in the road using forward and reverse gears."

They should add in motorway driving, night driving, motorway merging, overtaking etc.

Makes sense. How often do you reverse around a corner? Reversing into and out of parking bays is a regular manoeuvre for a lot of drivers (and often performed poorly).

Is reversing around a corner not the same principal as reversing into a parking bay, but without any cars to hit?

I think reversing a trailer into a parking bay should be a minimum test requirement.

😀

The attitude many drivers seem to have to merging onto a motorway ("get out of my way, move out into another lane, I'm coming in") is my current pet peeve.

nah, thats not as good as, stopping and indicating on a slip road

Reversing around a corner is just plain dangerous, along with doing a U-turn on a motorcycle (a part of the modern m/c test).

Never done either in +30 years of driving/riding.

Ah, the slip road -'the one single place where every driver knows how to use their right indicator. And the one place where it's quite unnecessary!

monkeychild - Member
They need to include the making progress element.

You mean the "5 car + tractor" test?

Reversing around a corner is just plain dangerous, along with doing a U-turn on a motorcycle (a part of the modern m/c test).

The blurb I was given during both trying and testing on the bike. The u-turn is more a test of handling skills than practice for the manouver itself.

The reverse round a corner and turn in the road are slow speed vehicle handling/car control and observation assessments. Getting rid of them would be daft. And as for reversing out of a parking space in the test why would anyone ever want to reverse out of a parking space?

I've reversed round a corner fairly recently, and turned in the road using forward and reverse gears. As wanman says, they're basic tests of control and observation.

However all this is just tinkering and will make no practical difference until we address attitudes to driving rather than simply testing skills. It's not generally a lack of skills which causes problems.

Reversing round corners, parallel parking, three point turns, joining motorways and so forth are all basic driving skills. although some drivers may never use some of them, others need them on a regular basis. Being able to carry out such manoeuvers safely and reasonably quickly (so as to avoid being a hazard/nuisance to other road users) would seem to me to be important. They should therefore, be included in the driving test as part of the assessment of basic driving competency. For many years I never performed a turn in the road or reversed around a corner; I now do both on a daily basis.

It's astounding to me that contributors to a cycling forum are of the opinion that there is no need to demonstrate basic skills in order to obtain a driving licence.

Here's the latest list of things that need to be put into the driving test:

1. Facebooking LOL to a picture of cat sitting in a duck tape circle while doing 60mph.
2. Speeding all the time then saying "it's a government money making scheme" when you get caught.
3. Using the phrase 'Think they own the road' for absolutely every one else you ever come on contact on the highway.
4. Spinning your wheels so the local girls juice their silkies.
5. Complain about everyone else on the road, especially the ones who are just like you. e.g. "Christ, all these people taking their kids to school in the car. What's wrong with them?'

And as for reversing out of a parking space in the test why would anyone ever want to reverse out of a parking space?

I find it's the often the best way to get out of the space if I've driven in forwards.

Why drive in forwards? I hear you ask. Well there are a number of reasons, one in particular is very obvious if you think about it.

A competent driver should be able to drive into and out of parking spaces in any direction and make an informed choice of which is most suitable for each occasion.

Reversing round a corner is a PITA and pointless. Turn in the road is useful.

The corner reverse requires the candidate to reverse 2-3 car lengths into the side road to clear the junction, who would do that in real life they would just get the back end in then drive off.

Motorways will never be part of the test as some areas are nowhere near motorways and the test has to be consistent. There was talk of us being allowed on motorways with students, but that was dropped with a change of transport minister.

the local girls juice their silkies

I is aroused.

All you smartarse scan show your huge road safety expertise in a few months by making a submission on the changes:

The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency said any eventual changes would be subject to full public consultation.

The could do with a motorway test IMO, with hogging the middle or outside lanes being an instant fail.

Reversing round a corner isn't really that different to reversing into a parking space or driveway. I imagine a corner is used for convenience but I guess with the increased traffic on the roads now compared to when I did my test, finding a suitable corner is more of a challenge than actually doing the manoeuvre!

The company I did my offshore survival with in Aberdeen had an onsite rule that you had to reverse into a parking space, so that no one was reversing out into traffic or pedestrians. I thought 'twas was a good idea, could see quite a few folk struggling with it though!.

The company I did my offshore survival with in Aberdeen had an onsite rule that you had to reverse into a parking space, so that no one was reversing out into traffic or pedestrians. I thought 'twas was a good idea, could see quite a few folk struggling with it though!.

I think British Gas has the same rules for their engineers no matter where they are, they have to reverse into a bay.

Modern cars are so powerful that I find it is quicker to drive round the block at 100MPH than do a three point turn. It's either that, or I light up the tyres and spin it round in a smoky half moon, Ken Block style.

Basic advanced driving technique. You always reverse into a bay since you are generally at the end of a journey, and thus you are fully alert, and your windows are demisted and clear. If you reverse out, the opposite is often the case.

The Supermarket is obviously a pain though if you can't get to the boot with the trolley!

Things that should be included in the test:
motorway driving
overtaking of slow moving traffic
skid pan training including steering while sliding using ABS
driving in the dark

Reversing round the corner is surely a test of ability to reverse around objects?

On country roads you can reverse for miles its kind of handy if you can follow the road, mind you testing for reversing in a straight line should be included.

Reversing into parking bays is a pretty strict rule in most construction sites.

Meh to reversing into parking spaces: pray tell how do you get your luggage or shopping in without dragging it up the side of your and others' cars?

I reverse off my drive also. Avoids scraping the front bumper/bodywork on the road.

Basic advanced driving technique. You always reverse into a bay since you are generally at the end of a journey, and thus you are fully alert, and your windows are demisted and clear. If you reverse out, the opposite is often the case.

The Supermarket is obviously a pain though if you can't get to the boot with the trolley!

All good reasons why it's company policy in a lot or car parks and should be the default option. And the main obvious (but not only) reason why it is not always the most appropriate or practical option.

Reversing round a corner may have been devised as a test of car control but it has become an exercise in mirror checking in a most unusual and unique scenario. The parallel park and reverse park replicate the exact same car control skill set.
The test doesn't come close to replicating real world driving.
I've never heard of anyone failing due to lack of car control, but I know of dozens who failed due to not checking their mirrors in the pre determined pattern.

The could do with a motorway test IMO, with hogging the middle or outside lanes being an instant fail.

Thing is, there aren't motorways everywhere. But there are loads of two or three lane dual carriageway A roads which are basically the same as motorways but learners can use them.

Reversing round a corner may have been devised as a test of car control but it has become an exercise in mirror checking in a most unusual and unique scenario. The parallel park and reverse park replicate the exact same car control skill set.

That's a very good point, and one I'd forgotten. I was taught to reverse round corners by lining up the kerb with various points on a dealer sticker in the rear window. Which got me through my test, but "reversing a Peugeot 206 using the 'F' on a Walker Farrimond sticker" isn't a readily transferable life skill.

Reverse parallel parking wasn't part of the test when I did it, so I taught myself. I do it daily, I'd never be able to park on my block otherwise. I can shoehorn into gaps barely bigger than the car, the hardest part I find is working out whether I'm going to fit or not beforehand. Amusingly, my OH is better at that than I am and she doesn't drive. I guess it's a male trait to overestimate the size of things.

This might be a really stupid point, but I'm going to make it anyway. I feel that the test really only represents being able to pass the test. it's become it's own self fulfilling prophecy. Driving instructors teach learners how to pass the test, not how to drive. I realise that at some point it was devised to test fitness to drive, but it's become a dance or routine. Follow these steps - pass.

How many times have you seen someone sitting in snow gunning the engine, going nowhere? Or tailgating in fog, or hogging the overtaking lane....or dare I say it, failing to overtake a much slower vehicle when clear opportunities are present. Or as someone else pointed out, hitting the brakes when merging on a slip.

My mother in law has been driving for 20 years or so, won't drive on a motorway. She won't go faster than 50mph. She's too afraid of the speed differential between her and the fast lane, or fears that someone will crash into her from behind because she's going too slow.

Also, whilst I am in favour of tighter restrictions on young drivers and new drivers, there should be a motorway aspect to the test. It's no wonder people think it's okay to sit in the outside lane at 60, if they've never been taught the first thing about how to drive on a motorway.

Not stupid at all. There's a long-standing adage that when you pass your test is the point where you actually start learning to drive. I'd love to see the advanced test become mandatory. L-plates, basic test, P-plates, advanced test. Ban P-plates from motorways unless accompanied by an instructor.

I've always thought as a learner you should have a play on a skid pan. As lets be honest the first time you lose control of the car you've only had theoretical ideas of turn out no in, no out bang.

But if, like me, you do plenty of driving on a 3 lane, 70mph dual carriageway with a hard shoulder and motorway style slip road while learning why shouldn't I be allowed to drive on a motorway?

And most of the other stuff being (rightly) complained about above IS covered in the theory and/or practical aspect of the lessons and test. If people choose to ignore it (like speed limits, no one can pretend to not know that it's illegal to break the speed limit, but 80%-90% of drivers admit to it when the RAC etc do surveys) then that's an enforcement problem rather than a one-off education one.

Do you think that the mother in law mentioned above would pass today's driving test if she took it?

bails
Do you think that the mother in law mentioned above would pass today's driving test if she took it?

She would pass the practical, absolutely. But just using the computers during the theory test would be too much of a panic factor as she's not computer literate.

To do it properly it should take a year to cover a series of driving tests to include year round conditions.

Restrictions should be placed after passing each category of test until all have been completed, ie basic, advanced, winter/night, motorway.

Defensive driving and how to respond to emergencies should be included in basic/advanced test.

Single retest every 10 years.

I've always thought as a learner you should have a play on a skid pan. As lets be honest the first time you lose control of the car you've only had theoretical ideas of turn out no in, no out bang.

This would be one of the best improvements. It already happens in other countries with success.

You could also split the test into 2 like the current Motorbike test.
1) Maneuvers and skills (skid pans, parking, etc...)
2) Road test based upon awareness and interaction

She would pass the practical, absolutely.

bails

But if she won't go over 50 then she'd probably be failed for going too slowly on national speed limit roads.

Max speed for a learner is 45.

Max speed for a learner is 45.

Really?

It is in Northern Ireland anyway.

I occasionally have had to reverse round a corner, and I guess that it's the same thing I do every time I park my car at home, because I have to reverse onto the hardstanding in front of the house, as it's almost impossible to see traffic or pedestrians coming up the road even driving out forwards. It's a 90 degree reverse onto paving slabs running parallel to the front path, around the gate-post, so the car needs to be properly positioned to get it in the right place.
Having said that, there's enough room for two cars there, it's just me being tidy. 😀

I've always thought as a learner you should have a play on a skid pan. As lets be honest the first time you lose control of the car you've only had theoretical ideas of turn out no in, no out bang.

I did that. Snowy Toys'R'Us car park one winter (-: At the time I was being a young stupid hooligan, but it's served me in good stead when I have been caught out in adverse conditions subsequently.

It is in Northern Ireland anyway.

Not in the rest of the UK, unless it's changed since I learned. One of the test routes has a 50 stretch and I had to drive at or near the limit.

as it's almost impossible to see traffic or pedestrians coming up the road even driving out forwards

It's also illegal to reverse from a minor road into a major one IIRC, you shouldn't be reversing out of a drive.

The compulsory motorway idea is great in theory, but for my mate in Wick it wouldn't work. The nearest motorway is about 6 hours away and I don't think they do 12 hour driving lessons...

They need to include the making progress element.

They already do, if you drive like a granny you'll fail. Don't overtake at a safe opportunity and that's a minor. Drive at a slow speed, that's another. Continue doing this and wave your licence goodbye.

She's too afraid of the speed differential between her and the fast lane

I could of swore you said fast lane there when talking about the overtaking lanes.

As said, dual carriageways are exactly the same as motorways in terms of speed and lane positioning but with the added element of roads joining with little or no slip road, slow road users (cyclists, horses, tractors, passing circus) and often blind dips, hills and bends. So really, an A road is harder to deal with than a motorway.

As for the reversing thing, I do it quite often when I've taken a wrong turn and ended up on a tiny street with cars parked all the way down one side. It's also handy to know when you're driving a van. And focussing on stickers is a mistake, the point was learning where your rear wheel was and using a reference point to manouver based on its position. Once you now your points you can park anything. In fact it's just about essential to know these points when towing as reversing a trailer or caravan "blind" just results in a free piece of street theatre for the laughing masses (and a few pissed off folk waiting to pass).

Three point turn was done away with yonks ago, it's a turn in the road and can be completed in as many or little manouvers as deemed appropriate.

How do you people get around without reversing round corners or doing 3 point turns?

Do you just drive on continuously until you get to a roundabout?

I've always thought as a learner you should have a play on a skid pan. As lets be honest the first time you lose control of the car you've only had theoretical ideas of turn out no in, no out bang.

Thing is, most car's under-steer, straightening up stops the under-steer, but is it actually more effective than just holding on and waiting for the car to slow and regain grip?

How do you people get around without reversing round corners or doing 3 point turns?
Do you just drive on continuously until you get to a roundabout?

I live on a single track lane. These people exist:)

I met a bloke last year who attempted to reverse the 20 feet back to a passing place. Each time he attempted the feat he just stove the car into the hedge and then due to the space it took him to straighten up again made more progress forwards than backwards.

I say double the number of magic roundabout on the road as tourist attraction or simply stick a roundabout as you wish in a straight road for no reason. 🙄

"Roundabout, you earn money from tourists! Fact!" (advertising mode) 😆

Thing is, there aren't motorways everywhere. But there are loads of two or three lane dual carriageway A roads which are basically the same as motorways but learners can use them.

You obviously don't live anywhere neat me then. About 20-30 minutes to drive to any dual carriageway apart from a few hundred metres of crawler lane on a hill, which isn't a dual carriageway (as there is no central divider).

I do think a refresher test, or two stage test would be a good idea though

Driving instructors teach learners how to pass the test, not how to drive.

Nah - that's a load of rubbish. I always taught people how to drive. Purely because I knew that as soon as they passed I would be having to share the road with them.

No problem with removing the reverse-around-corners, yes it's a test of obs and maneuvering rather than literally a test of reversing-round-a-corner but if it's replaced with something that more accurately reflects everyday driving, where's the issue? Reversing into a parking space is basically the same thing but more real-world applicable, just seems like common sense to me. And going by the number of cars in my office carpark parked nose in, it's something people could do with learning.

I was told- though can't say if it's true- that testers very rarely ask for it these days.

3 point turn (yeah yeah I know, turn in road using forward and reverse) is basically a simple thing to do, if you can go forward and reverse you can do a 3 point turn. So maybe removing it from the test just reflects that, rather than saying "You don't need to be able to do it"? I think it's more valuable than the reverse-round-corner though.

(fwiw I park nose in on my driveway, because it's a funny shape and barely any bigger than my car, parking nose in is awkward but reversing in is, well maybe not impossible but sufficiently bloody hard that I've never attempted it without an observer, and never done it succesfully with the other car on the drive. If anyone wants a go, let me know. Reversing out safely is really not hard to do in my case. Like anything else with driving you should do what's most appropriate in your exact circumstances)

[quote=Cougar ]I did that. Snowy Toys'R'Us car park one winter (-: At the time I was being a young stupid hooligan, but it's served me in good stead when I have been caught out in adverse conditions subsequently.

It wasn't Toys'R'Us, but otherwise +1 to all that, including being a hooligan at the time. Given how simple and basic controlling a car in slippy conditions is (and I'm talking here about avoiding skidding rather than doing it deliberately as we did), it is quite shocking how few people seem capable of it, and what chaos happens on the roads as a result.

[quote=squirrelking ]I could of swore you said fast lane there when talking about the overtaking lanes.

I could have sworn you wrote "could of" there 😉

How do you people get around without reversing round corners or doing 3 point turns?

I tend to plan ahead when driving so that I don't have to regularly undo errors.

Max speed for a learner is 45.

Hah, that's stupid! Explains how people scared to go over 50 could re-pass the test though 😉

I was taught to drive by an ex-cop. (Police Driving Trainer he'd retired at 50 ),he encouraged you not to hold up traffic and press-on. I would reckon it's easier for a reversing manoeuvre to use an empty road junction rather than a gap between vehicles as if any collision occurs the paperwork would be a problem...?. A section of the test/learning process involving driving at night should be added IMO.

Reversing around a corner is just plain dangerous, along with doing a U-turn on a motorcycle (a part of the modern m/c test).

I don't see why either is dangerous if done properly and I've certainly done both multiple times since passing my car and bike tests.

The foot-up U-turn isn't really a necessary skill by itself and in fact not even possible on some motorbikes, but it is a decent test of low-speed control and I can't see why it's dangerous.

In England at least, the max speed for a learner is the speed limit. I had to do 70 on my test (in the late 1990s) as I was going down a dual carriageway section of the A38. T'husband is currently learning to drive, he's had to to 50/60 roads on his lessons too.

I could have sworn you wrote "could of" there.

LIES!!! YOU'RE LYING!!!!!!!

😳

I was told- though can't say if it's true- that testers very rarely ask for it these days.

they certainly did where i did my test this year. but then that's partly because there were no bays to park in at the test centre, which reduced the number of manoeuvres they could ask you to do!

fortunately i didn't have to do one, because when we got to the official Examiner's Favourite Corner For Reversing Around, there was one person (on test) reversing around it, and another queued up (also on test) waiting to have a go as well. My examiner sacked it off and just made me do a turn in the road instead 😆