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This is not 1952, and discussion about a new Monarch new shouldn’t be treated as if it is.
This is a good point. The Queen, although beloved by many, was a relic of a different era. I don’t believe Charles will be modern enough to make any real change. The monarchy seem to bring with them a concept of Britain that is stuck in an era that no longer exists.
If we are to have a monarchy (an outdated concept in my opinion) I’d prefer William to take the reigns. Relatively young, somewhat more relatable and more likely to change things up. The concept and the reality are both entrenched in the past and need modernising.
Take a serious look at the pomp, ceremony, weird formalities, vast estates, regalia and really think if it needs to be a thing in the 21st century. In my opinion it needs to be consigned to history, move on, modernise. What that looks like under a monarchy, who knows, but I hope it’s a change from what’s come before. Seeing people bow and curtesy to others just seems ridiculous in a modern world.
I have been working in a shop over the weekend.
Normally any major news stories come up in conversation with customers.
Not 1 person has mentioned the Queen.
I think that people feel intimidated that they should be "in mourning" due to the output of the MSM, particularly the BBC and don't voice their indifferent feelings.
What this is going to be like in another 10 days, who knows? Why we should be so deferent to this bunch of tossers, god only knows.
Are news reports providing balance? Is anyone on telly or radio saying actually a lot of people couldn’t care less?
Should they be? Would it be well received, do you suppose?
Why we should be so deferent to this bunch of tossers, god only knows.
Who's being deferent? Again: there is a middle ground between forelock-tugging and dancing on their grave.
Is anyone on telly or radio saying actually a lot of people couldn’t care less?
There was an article on I think ITV News about this being a chance to modernise the monarchy and the royal family. Not exactly saying that many 'couldn't care less' but there is the beginning of debate. It isn't totally one sided (but yes, currently very skewed)
I’d prefer William to take the reigns.
😉
Wowza! More chips here than in Harry Ramsdens!
I for one am saddened by HM's passing.
I thought she set a shining example of dedication and service to us all.
RIP
There is an argument that the monarchy is a repository for illogical nationalist feelings and useful for it. Unchecked, where would that energy displayed by the mawkish and fawning masses go?
Would it be redirected towards creating a more fair and democratic society or would those feelings be instrumentalised by the Right to create an even more unequal, spiteful and nationalistic society?
I thought she set a shining example of dedication and service to us all.
Hmm. Do your job, don't cause trouble, toe the line, stiff upper lip, keep everything the same as it's always been.
Good example? Discuss.
There is an argument that the monarchy is a repository for illogical nationalist feelings and useful for it. Unchecked, where would that energy displayed by the mawkish and fawning masses go?
Very interesting point. Head of state not only for visiting dignitaries but also for the plebs.
There is an argument that the monarchy is a repository for illogical nationalist feelings and useful for it. Unchecked, where would that energy displayed by the mawkish and fawning masses go?
My hope would be that it would die out over time. I could be wrong, but I imagine support for a monarchy is mainly from older generations. Like any form of change there would be a period of turbulence and upheaval.
Your second point is a good one and rather worrying. Are the monarchy a barrier between us and nationalistic sentiment running rampant.
Are we all looking forward to watching the queen's final journey? Six solid hours.
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that's about as exciting.
Hi Kelvin my exact thoughts I certainly did like the Queen but the whole issue with Harry & Meghan for me was one of final straws with this Family for me then all the palaces, Andrew, Camilla unfortunately a long list now. Now this coverage of the accession of the King is totally outdated and should not need to happen, how I hear my children talk about the royal family I would not be surprised If william never became king. The whole thing is so outdated we have food banks in the UK whilst paying for all this, I don't think they are needed Tourist's will still visit the buildings.
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that’s about as exciting.
Nowhere near as exciting! Apart from when that person caused a megacrash trying to take a selfie. Wonder if that will happen today?
a merging of the two would be good. It's usually the mavericks into a break (maybe the York girls, Harry would have been nailed on) - let them get 15 minutes up the road, and then the hearse gradually ramps up the speed and catches them just as they cross the Forth Bridge.
Elsewhere. I have a friend who is a funeral director, he has a myriad of tales but one nightmare is a funeral car breaking down or running out of petrol (can happen, if a family stands looking at flowers too long for example that they can't refuel before getting to the next job)
I bet that car's been serviced, serviced again and then once more this morning.
Big day for the hearse driver. Slow and steady wins the race. Not a time to be putting the motor through its paces.
They should chuck the "Stone of Destiny" in the back of the hearse too. It'll save an extra journey for the coronation.
Not 1 person has mentioned the Queen.
I've been into a few shops since she passed away.
I've not mentioned it either but it doesn't mean I'm not a wee bit saddened. Just cos people don't mention it doesn't mean they don't give a toss.
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that’s about as exciting.
Will anyone do a road gap over the procession though? That would be worth watching.
Hmm… not sure which thread to put this in…
Further unease about the Accession part of this (unlike some others, I don’t have any real problem with the official mourning side, apart from the cruelty of making retail staff listen to Robbie William’s “Angels” on a loop)… when the King goes on his tour of the nations, it looks like he’ll be taking the new PM with him in a joint getting their faces out there exercise. Worrying.
"My hope would be that it would die out over time. I could be wrong, but I imagine support for a monarchy is mainly from older generations. Like any form of change there would be a period of turbulence and upheaval."
Asking friend's who have kids in their late teens / early 20's their sprogs don't seem to give it much thought, much as myself at that age.
We all become the older generation eventually though... Thus my second point about the dangers of nationalism, I wouldn't have been as aware of that danger at a younger age, when if pushed I would probably have cleaved towards the notion that we could change society for the better by moving on from an antiquated monarchical system.
I also think the idea that the monarchy will gradually and inevitably dissolve is far from a certainty, the entire history of the monarchy has been a rocky ride and always open to question, criticism and existential threats.
The 50 something me thinks that something that has lasted nigh on a thousand years stands a fairly good chance of surviving a fair few centuries yet.
Should they be? Would it be well received, do you suppose?
It would by me
Who’s being deferent? Again: there is a middle ground between forelock-tugging and dancing on their grave.
I'm not dancing on anyone's grave.
However, putting up with this blanket of nonsense on our media is allowing the Royal family to be seen as something incredibly important and far superior to the rest of us. We have suspended parliament for another 2 weeks after weeks of a vacuum, while our economy is in taters, the far right government has granted billions of pounds of our money to prop up a failed energy market and there is a war in Europe, in which we are a major proxy.
It's a shit state of affairs and something needs to change.
King Charles III, is a man who is on record on wishing to be a tampon.
His brother was a close friend of an uber sex pest and his mother paid off his victim with millions of pounds. We were told he would be stepping back from his role and yet he is all over the media, yet again! His beloved mother, chose him to be the one to walk into her husbands funeral with. An absolute **** you UK.
But yes, lets all tell stories of Queenie and how she was nice to you when you have given her flowers.
I wasn't a royalist at the start of the thread but I am now
Wonder if they'll do it all in one go? It's a fair old journey, maybe a quick stop for sandwiches. Can't imagine the entire convoy piling into a drive-thru... do they even have drive-thru's in Scotland?
We all become the older generation eventually though… Thus my second point about the dangers of nationalism, I wouldn’t have been as aware of that danger at a younger age, when if pushed I would probably have cleaved towards the notion that we could change society for the better by moving on from an antiquated monarchical system.
I’d like to think that my generation and those below have a different set of core values to those that have come before. This is reflected in the stats somebody shared earlier. The percentage of those seeking change is slowly going up. That can only be a good thing in my eyes.
Should they be? Would it be well received, do you suppose?
It would by me
Me too!
I’ve got BBC news on (muted)until the cricket starts. Like the TDF it’s boring and I’m only watching it for the scenery
Hopefully they’ll pick Burger King as their drive-thru choice
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that’s about as exciting.
Well, I'm certainly looking forward to the bunch sprint at the end.
Are we all looking forward to watching the queen’s final journey? Six solid hours.
If only there was something else to do.
Traffic looks light.
"Hopefully they’ll pick Burger King as their drive-thru choice"
No need, they've got team workers waiting to pass out bidons and grab bags at feeding stations. The TV cameras are there to make sure there are no sticky bottle incidents and that they throw the empties and energy bar wrappers out in the designated areas.
Hopefully they’ll pick Burger King as their drive-thru choice
Pizza Express in Woking could do a buffet
I see pictures of the queen and think ‘yeah good job, nice lady’ then I go a layer deeper in the articles and news items and in no time I’m being metaphorically punched in the face with repeated themes of class, heredity and entitlement and it makes me sick.
So yeah sad about the lady but the rest of it can foxtrot-oscar.
45min stop planned at Brechin Castle according to our local news, before they head to Dundee and on...
Got it on the TV in the background out of general interest, but no intention of riding out to watch.
There is an argument that the monarchy is a repository for illogical nationalist feelings and useful for it.
There's no inherent link between nationalism and monarchy.
Many Welsh and Scottish nationalists are republicans who believe having a monarchy is outdated and illogical.
The nationalism you are talking about is a brand of British nationalism.
This whole shebang would put many a traveller’s funeral to shame. 😀
Are we all looking forward to watching the queen’s final journey? Six solid hours.
If only there was something else to do.
Flick one channel on the remote for uninterrupted live coverage of the Great North Run.
Obviously it reduces your ability to moan about something so think carefully before you take such drastic action.
The nationalism you are talking about is a brand of British nationalism.
Great point and I completely agree. I’d love to be able to get in to the mindset of the sort of person who fawns over the royal family (nobody on here btw)as it is just so alien to me. Almost a form of worship and that’s a whole other can of worms we don’t want to open on this thread.
It's the sanctification of individuals with the aim of placing them above criticism and ossifying social structures. Stalinism and monarchism are quite similar in that respect. It's irrational and consequently those on bended knee can only fend off criticism with abusive quips and ad homs.
There’s no inherent link between nationalism and monarchy.
Many Welsh and Scottish nationalists are republicans who believe having a monarchy is outdated and illogical.
The nationalism you are talking about is a brand of British nationalism.
An interesting point is that if the monarch ceased to be UK head of state s/he would presumably still remain head of state of another 14 independent countries, which would be awkward.
Another interesting observation imo was Putin's unexpectedly warm tribute to QE2. Putin has never struck me as someone who highly respects polite international protocol. I suspect he felt able to give his warm tribute because QE2 wasn't a politician but seen as a neutral figurehead who represented the British people more than the British government.
As someone who believes that there should be absolutely no place for an inherited head of state in an advanced democracy this puts me in a bit of a dilemma.
There is clearly something very attractive about a non-political neutral head of state in international relations, it must surely reduce feelings of bipartisan nationalism, how you achieve that in a democratic society isn't that obvious to me.
Edit: See also Sinn Fein's tribute to QE2 as another example of transcending nationalist barriers.
"There’s no inherent link between nationalism and monarchy.
Many Welsh and Scottish nationalists are republicans who believe having a monarchy is outdated and illogical.
The nationalism you are talking about is a brand of British nationalism."
I'm guessing you meant to finish that off with 'English nationalism'? In which case I wouldn't disagree with you.
Many Scotish nationalists may well consider the monarchy to be outdated and illogical but had the recent referendum for Scotish independence been succesful, the monarchy would have still been retained.
Another interesting observation imo was Putin’s unexpectedly warm tribute to QE2. Putin has never struck me as someone who highly respects polite international protocol. I suspect he felt able to give his warm tribute because QE2 wasn’t a politician but seen as a neutral figurehead who represented the British people more than the British government.
or maybe he wants to chip away a little of the support the government has for it's opposition to his slaughter of Ukrainians by pretending to agree with royalists on a minor issue. It is a pretty common and simple debating/propaganda technique.
Maybe there was a similar cynical motive behind Sinn Fein's tribute, after all the reason Sinn Fein has always given for not taking up their Westminster seats was the oath of allegiance to the monarch, something which UK nationalists don't appear to have a serious problem with. I don't remember a similar polite tribute when Margaret Thatcher died.
Edit: Even if Putin's motivation wasnt an unlikely feeling of sadness and regret at the death of QE2, the point remains imo that he probably felt able to do so due to the perceived political neutrality of QE2. Whether this is a good or bad thing is another question.
Abstentionism has deeper roots than just the simple we won’t take the oath of allegiance. It has long been a republican practice not to attend the parliament in London
This is quite a good article on it
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/06/sinn-fein-mp-british-parliament-irish-republicans-brexit
Anyway, I'm just wondering who next for the OP "Angel of Death" Kelvin, to start a thread sending thoughts to?
switched on the telly earlier this morning and saw some sad faces, some people, just normal people telling the reporter about how the were upset etc,
not sure I get it. yeah, it's sad for the royal family, but personally being affected by her passing. I was a bit shocked when Bowie passed, more when lemmy passed, but they gave me something.
the royals, not so much. But they also didn't 'seem' to interfere and offered a nice fairytale idea of princesses, princes to children and americans.
as for british people being really upset, I'm not going to be able to understand that.
About the only thing I could read in the Times in the last 3 days is the crosswords. Radios don't go on and I don't watch the box. One good thing was that they were playing a Bach suite down in Tesco's this morning, should do it more often.
I thought she set a shining example of dedication and service to us all.
You see, I am unable to read this and believe even slightly that it is serious.
Anyway, I’m just wondering who next for the OP “Angel of Death” Kelvin, to start a thread sending thoughts to?
Im sure there's an empty house out there.
I think we need a compromise where we keep.the Royal family but abolish Royal correspondents.
jambourgie
Free Member
Are we all looking forward to watching the queen’s final journey? Six solid hours.Posted 3 hours ago
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scotroutes
Full Member
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that’s about as exciting.
If Millar and Boulting did the commentary on the funeral I might watch!
I've been hearing all the commentary in the old Alan Partridge sports reporter voice.
Anything interesting happened on the road-trip? I must admit to turning it off and playing seditious records whilst doing traitorous chores.
I think we need a compromise where we keep.the Royal family but abolish Royal correspondents.
🤣 At least the radio is becoming a bit more normal.
If Millar and Boulting did the commentary on the funeral I might watch!
Sean Kelly FTW!
Shades of the 66 World Cup- the coffins in the Vault, they think it’s all over, it is now!
Jeez I’d rather listen to Nic Witchell than Sean Kelly
According to Mrs g neither the late queen nor the current king were mentioned at chapel this morning.
I would accept a compromise of a slimmed down royal family and remove them from politics completly. No more queens speech and all that baloney.
Let the wider family get jobs
Stop the special privileges like the immunity from police investigations of crimes and make them pay taxes
It will be interesting to see if the licensing of grouse moors in Scotland will apply to the queens estate where criminality is routine. But i bet her privilege exempts her
But i bet her privilege exempts her
I suspect being dead exempts her more!
I think we need a compromise where we keep.the Royal family but abolish Royal correspondents.
Actually I would be willing to start negotiating based on that!!! 😄
OP “Angel of Death” Kelvin
I’d just like to point out that I genuinely would have liked the Queen to have lived past 100, and kept her role ‘till the end. Her passing is sad, I see it as nothing else. Many people are far more moved by it than me, but I do see it as a loss. I don’t want this new King to rule over us though. Reform or remove… everything currently going on praising him gives me the creeps, like the whole of the UK is stuck in the middle of the last century, or earlier. It isn’t of course, but this pretence that we either are or we should be isn’t healthy.
TJ is just grumpy that he’s not at home to pop along to see the coffin. 😋
I think we need a compromise where we keep.the Royal family but abolish Royal correspondents
Well Charles called witchell an "awful man" a few years back, so maybe it'll be early doors for one fawning obsequious correspondent.
Oops
The perils of posting with beer in hand in the hot sun
🙄😎🚴♂️🚴♂️🚴♂️🤣
Declaration of God Save the King met with boos in Edinburgh
You know what the scots are like. And it's spelt booze.
Why would you bother turning up to boo. Is it a protest 'cos the TV schedules changed?
That's just weird.
Crackpot local chippy owner took it a bit further than booing 😳😳😳
Jaki - not a royal fan
Why would you bother turning up to boo.
So, you can turn up to celebrate the accession fo a new King, but not to express disapproval that it's happening? Well, at least the police agree with you, although those arrested/detained for expressing their views have all now been released.
Oops
The perils of posting with beer in hand in the hot sun
Get out of it - it's nothing to do with the hot sun. You just haven't come to terms yet with Her Majesty's sad passing.
Cortege just passed the end of my street. The mood of the crowd a bit conflicted between seeing a celebrity & going to a funeral.
bedmaker - but look at how she's been punished; her membership of the National Federation of Fish Friers has been revoked!
How will she live with the shame of being sanctioned by NaFFF?
I imagine the National Association of Fruit-Loops will sign her up ASAP
As I understand it, just one bloke was doing the booing in Edinburgh. Not much of a turn out for the republicans.
EDIT. Where is TJ at the moment?
Ah yes, Jaki. A great chippie, but holy shit what an absolute zoomer. Her views on Covid, the Pope, paedophiles, baby murderers, new world order, lizard people, Bill Gates, 5G, the Royal Family and every other conspiracy theory known to (wo)man were well advertised in the window of her shop. That she'd managed to wrap them all into one incoherent rant made it a genuine work of art.
She was recently refused planning permission for a large searchlight outside the shop. I say searchlight, it was to project against the sky with an image of her hero, Batterman.
Well, at least the police agree with you, although those arrested/detained for expressing their views have all now been released.
Absolutely disgusting that anyone is arrested at all. The UK gets by the day.
a amazing show of respect by the folk of scotland. showing nothing but respect for a woman who truly loved the people and the country.
Absolutely disgusting that anyone is arrested at all. The UK gets by the day
I suspect he was arrested to stop a wee rammy breaking out.