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So what about Sky, ITV & Channel 4. They are all pretty much doing the same thing.
True but think the role of the BBC is slightly different. It's traditionally where people have gone for big occasions - the state channel. Always had a much larger audience share than any competitors.
So what about Sky, ITV & Channel 4. They are all pretty much doing the same thing.
They have to - this is another of those cultural games that you can't win. Like poppy-wearing.
Nice to see the lovely Penny commanding the kingly scene.
It feels desperate and increasingly out of sync with the views and attitudes of the public. It’s pedalling harder and harder. And achieving less and less.
Is pretty much a spot-on assessment and summary, I'd say.
I'd love to know how many people are actually still watching this day after day.
I’d be interested to know the cost of it all!
Bread and circuses
I'm ambivalent about the media coverage but for those who think it's overly reverential and sycophantic...don't look at CNN.
They should stick all the tv coverage onto one channel and call it Mourn Hub
That would be a very challenging ****
Daily Mail readers maybe?
Daily Mail readers maybe?
can't remember the last time I read a newspaper. Never bought one either.
I’d love to know how many people are actually still watching this day after day.
I’ve been watching this morning. Whatever you might think about the Monarchy as an institution, this is History and to my mind quite fascinating.
True but think the role of the BBC is slightly different. It’s traditionally where people have gone for big occasions – the state channel. Always had a much larger audience share than any competitors.
So the BBC are currently covering a big occasion, and they traditionally have a much larger audience of than any of their competitors. In
I'm struggling to see what the criticism is - the BBC shouldn't be covering big occasions and having large audiences?
I expect the sort of coverage the queen's death has caused we live in a monarchy and the most important development in 70 years has just occurred, eventually it will blow over, in the meantime I am not having any problem finding non-monarchy related news at all. Among the stuff I've read today is the situation in Ukraine, how racism has played an important role in tomorrow's Swedish general election, and a police appeal concerning a local rape.
we live in a monarchy and the most important development in 70 years has just occurred
Really? Really? I'm sympathetic for her family and feel unpleasantly aware of the passage of time, but to say that this is the most important development in this country in 70 years is laughable.
It will make bugger all difference to the daily lives of most people. Therefore really isn’t that important. The whole monarchy could disappear over night and I don’t know of anyone who’s life would alter in any remotely significant way. They’re just the UK Kardashians.
I expect the sort of coverage the queen’s death has caused we live in a monarchy and the most important development in 70 years has just occurred,
Really?, I couldn't name one person I know/in my phone that gives a rats arse never mind consider it the most important development in 70 years. End the monarchy now - that's the only fitting tribute.
I couldn’t name one person I know/in my phone that gives a rats arst
Well that sounds definitive. And you do realise that I am talking about the most important development in the monarchy in 70 years don't you, unless you can think of a more important one - the death of Princess Diana, do you think that was more important?
Edit: The clue was in the last "70" years, for those who failed to understand that it was in reference to the monarchy.
I would have said the most important developments were the deal by which they pay o tax and the discovery of just how much she interfered in the democratic process.
I do love the bloodsport this is becoming.
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I've studiously avoided pretty much everything, but they've just played some stuff on the news on 6 music with MPs on a special Saturday sitting of Parliament all competitively blowing smoke up the arse of the monarchy
The whole thing was indistinguishable from a Monty Python sketch
Still... nice of them to make the effort.
What with just having had 2 months off and them now giving themselves a further 2 weeks for official mourning
Good job theres nothing more pressing that needs dealing with eh?
They’re just the UK Kardashians.
They wish the were so relevant!
I would have said the most important developments were the deal by which they pay o tax and.....
Yeah but as you point out it's what you would say, most people would say that the death of one monarch and the replacement by another was a more important development in the history of the monarchy.
What do you think future history books will be focusing on?
And you do realise that I am talking about the most important development in the monarchy in 70 years don’t you, unless you can think of a more important one – the death of Princess Diana, do you think that was more important?
Your post about the 70 year aspect was quite poorly worded tbh, it wasn’t clear that you were referring to the monarchy only, imho.
I would say that Phil killing Diana was / is probably more important as it led to the firm changing how they dealt with the media and a degree of rebranding and a more interesting explosion of mawkish grief in the public. Let’s be honest the queen was old and on marked time, Diana was young and queen of hearts, bit like Ted Heath v James Dean in the death stakes
Stealth edit!! The link above didn’t load on first viewing
You're having me on
I would say that Phil killing Diana was / is probably more important
Well there you are, you believe that the Queen's husband murdering their daughter-in-law was/is more important. I'm sure many people would agree with you if they didn't think it was bollocks.
And imo it was pretty damn obvious that I was talking about historical developments in the monarchy - especially as I referred to the last 70 years and said that I expected it. You don't expect that sort of reaction in a monarchy?
Boris Johnson is beyond pissed that he’s now simply a washed up bystander
I'm so glad the Queen hung on long enough to see him resign. Although I'd far rather she'd called him in to fire him...
Also, is he off his tits on drugs?!
I’d love to know how many people are actually still watching this day after day.
I do but not every hour but it is in the background.
I think the monarchy has become a weakness of the British state.
Might be imperfect but show me a perfect system.
Well there you are, you believe that the Queen’s husband murdering their daughter-in-law was/is more important. I’m sure many people would agree with you if they didn’t think it was bollocks.
Sorry I forgot the 😉 I thought you’d be able to work that bit out.
So to be clear I don’t believe Phil murderd Diana it’s a rehash of a fairly common joke (I suspect you knew that anyway you just like to niggle / big hit) but I feel it is probably more important as a monarchy event than Liz dying
You don’t expect that sort of reaction in a monarchy?
Well, how important actually is the monarchy, in real terms?
It's not like William defeating Harold in battle. That was pretty huge for the country. I don't feel that this is.
Well, how important actually is the monarchy, in real terms?
The monarchy might not be important at all, but constitutional monarchy is the system that we live under. The change of monarch is very obviously an important event, and the last time it happened was 70 years ago.
I'm not surprised by the coverage, it was totally predictable, although apparently some people are. As I say it will blow over on a while - calm down and carry on.
Singletrack is a fascinating place.
I’ve seen amazing kindness sympathy and good feeling towards families who have lost a loved one and parent/grandparent.
And equally now vitriol, poor taste jokes and anger towards another family who have had the same thing happen.
Curious.
I’m no huge royalist, but I met the queen a couple of times and generally found her nice. Perhaps she was perhaps she wasn’t, I don’t know, but like most people you meet in life you can only judge them as you found them?
I’ve watched a fair bit and so has my little girl. As it’s a moment of history.
Can't say I've ever come across a definition of a constitutional monarchy.
Can’t say I’ve ever come across a definition of a constitutional monarchy.
Wikipedia has one which doesn't differ significantly from what I was taught in history classes at school in the late 80's...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy
It's not a strict definition as such, more a sort of broad description based on how much (or how little) power the monarchy actually has in practice.
I think the UK is fairly unique in that the monarchy itself doesn't have much power in the administrative function of the country other than traditional/ceremonial but the media have elevated the monarchy to a pedestal which simply doesn't happen in many other countries with a king and/or queen.
This is genuinely a once in a lifetime experience. Almost no-one on here, and the vast proportion of the nations inhabitants has only known the Queen as monarch. This is an absolute epoch.
Also for the vast majority of STW users, we live in a nation where the monarchy is a significant part of our culture and tradition, and this is a defining moment in our nation.
I get that some readers are not fans of royalty; I get that some are vehemently anti-monarchy / pro republic. I question whether this time is the time to be voicing it but if you want to, then I respect your right to.
What I am a little surprised by.
I get there's not a long pro-royalty thread running, it's clearly not something that MTBers generally feel passionate about, but there's a 20 page thread running currently because of the times we find ourselves in, and reflecting the situation, processes, pageantry, and traditions as much as the personalities involved.
The anti-monarchists though. Why isn't there a long running thread on that given the strength of feeling? The thread is becoming skewed by a relatively few posters, some of whom have barely mentioned these views before yet have been absolutely prolific in the past few pages.
It feels to me a bit, rude basically. Disrespectful, but respect is I guess earned and I get that the anti's don't feel the royals are worthy or just haven't earned it yet (baby). I respect your right to views, but we've heard them now, a sarcastic reimagining of every third comment is just now making some seem a bit..... dickish, basically.
Or are they just doing it to be edgy and actually don't care that much?
My 2p.
I'm with Ernie on this (there's something I thought I'd never say).
Whatever your personal feelings towards the monarchy, the Queen, King Charles spaniels or whatever, this is undeniably a big deal. It might not be a big deal to you, it's not particularly a big deal to me either, but nationally it's huge. Hell, internationally it's huge.
Our head of state has died. A head of state who, in most people's living memory, is the only one we've ever had. Someone who was thrust into the role whether she liked it or not and carried on doing it for 70 years, a couple of decades past retirement age.
How do you expect people to react? How do you expect the media to react? You can disagree with it and that's fine, but you'd have to be pretty dim to be surprised that the death of a monarch and the appointment of our first king since the early 1950 might generate a quite bit of media coverage for a few days. It's literally history in the making.
Did you see the video of Charles and his servant? Sums them up really.
theotherjonv - I agree fully and would add that some posters have said they're not interested but continue returning to post further comments.
So, yes, they're attempting to be edgy - but actually being tiresome.
The thread title is 'Thoughts with the Queen and her family' but a number of posts have now morphed this into something different.
There is a massive story breaking, of far more historical importance than the death of 1 person and the our public service broadcaster is not effectively covering this.
Ooh, ooh … please tell me I missed the headline ( or lack ) saying the Saudis have stopped bombing the **** out of Yemen….. or is that not the big story the media is ignoring ( and has been all year )
But back on topic I have to say that while a number of posters on here are entitled to share the opinion that the death of a monarch is not that important there are huge numbers in this country who would disagree ….. hence the crowds in London and elsewhere already paying respect by laying flowers ( Charles 3rd requests plastic is removed so they can be composted in due course )
And I imagine even larger numbers later in the week as estimates suggests the wait to file past the coffin while lying in state will surpass the 24 hour queue when it was her mum…..
And ,
YES , I am struggling to work out the logistics of getting to London to either join that queue or at least lay some flowers ….. train tickets from Yorkshire seem to be in very short supply all of a sudden for some reason 🤔
Well this surprised me, it's a couple of days old but I didn't know about it
The words used are particularly unexpected:
"She lived a long, full life.
“In her lifetime relationships between our countries were changed and changing. I salute her contribution to this transformation.”
Sinn Fein’s Stormont leader Michelle O’Neill said she had learned of the death of the Queen with “deep regret”, and wished to acknowledge “the profound sorrow of our neighbours from within the unionist community who will feel her loss deeply”.
It's good to see Irish republicans showing both respect and a recognition of the huge importance of the Queen's death, especially considering that Sinn Fein won't take their Westminster seats as historically they wouldn't swear an oath of allegiance to Queen Elizabeth.
Irish republicans clearly undersand the importance of showing respect, for which they themselves will undoubtedly gain respect, and thereby reduce mistrust and divisions across communities.
I hope that hand held out across the divide in the post above is not missed when politics resume and GFA discussions restart.
I understand why monarchists are so reluctant to talk about what they support.
And why so much energy is put into stopping any kind of dissenting opinion - now is not the time etc.
I genuinely think it's the right approach because it's a belief-based system.
It's not something you can easily discuss or reasonably talk about without it all seeming daft.
That's why the BBC is right to prevent any dissenting opinion. To avoid any reasonable debate.
Because if they ever start to loosen that grip, the whole thing starts to collapse.
So, yes, they’re attempting to be edgy
No they really aren’t. They are simply expressing their opinion on an open forum. Want a closed thread then go start a group on Facebook or something. There are loads of other threads on this very site that say how dangerous echo chambers can be and how they’ve helped fuel some of the sentiments and beliefs we currently see in this country. Keep the varied opinions coming.
As for comparing this to how people have helped each other on here. There’s a massive difference. This place, like it or not, is a community of people with a shared interest and of similar (or close) socioeconomic backgrounds that pulls together and helps others in times of need. The royal family are as far removed from you average poster on here as it is possible to be.
I’d genuinely be interested to know how old some of you are that are kind of pro royal. Most folks I socialise and work with (35 to 45ish) are in the feeling a bit of empathy for her relatives and that’s it camp. Some are just annoyed that the radio in the warehouse is playing Coldplay, Keane and Celine Dion!
The thread title is ‘Thoughts with the Queen and her family’ but a number of posts have now morphed this into something different.
Find me a single thread on here of more than a couple of pages that doesn’t go off topic and I’ll eat my own face
'and just looking at the reactions across social media now and some people on a cycling forum have agreed that 'it is a big deal' whereas as Joanne from Hull has tweeted in to say 'no it isn't,'..and that's funny isn't it John because in her later years The Queen embraced social media didnt she?'
And why so much energy is put into stopping any kind of dissenting opinion – now is not the time etc.
Its all a bit US gun cultists with the oh not the time which I suspect will quickly switch to well we can discuss it next time.
If someone wants to mourn good luck to them but what I dislike is the demand that everyone else follow suit as well. Especially given the incoherence of the arguments being put forward. I mean greatest monarch ffs. Really? Compared to Alfred, Elizabeth I or Edward III to name but three.
Its proper schrodingers monarchy. On the one hand we shouldnt fuss ourselves that Charlie is now the king because its just constitutional but on the other hand apparently she was a great leader of the country.
I'm not pro Royal. At best I'm ambivalent, but I do like tradition and pageantry, which in the UK is in the main inextricably linked to the monarchy. But as an example, the Lord Mayor's show and the various guilds and trades, or the Durham Miner's Gala.... I like to understand these too. So right now - the traditions, proclamations, etc., are to me fascinating.
I can still reflect this is a major moment in the nation's recent history and therefore understand why it is getting the coverage even if it's stopped Reading's recent good form in the EFL Championship.
Not trying to prevent dissenting voices, but we have heard them now. It doesn't make it an echo chamber, if a truce can be called then maybe we can get on and discuss what's happening rather than whether it's a good or bad thing, where we waren't going to find agreement anyway.
So - funeral and Bank Holiday on the 19th. And my daughter's off to Uni leaving do can happen at the weekend still. And Harry and William are sort of back on speaking terms.
lovely aerial shots across WGP to Slough in the background.
And equally now vitriol, poor taste jokes and anger towards another family who have had the same thing happen.
Please point out who has posted in this vein. The only vitriolic name calling posts i see come from the royalists. Yes I said forelock tuggers. But i and other republicans have been called all sorts of unpleasant things and several of those posts have been removed.
So pot kettle black springs to mind
Protecting a nonce. Interfering in the democratic pricess. Hoarding wealth
Your first post on this thread TJ. That’s pretty respectful of the dead & not name-calling at all
Not trying to prevent dissenting voices, but we have heard them now.
I take it you feel the same about the monarchists?
Or is it just one side you want silenced?
There is a term for that.
In resoonse to a complete fabrication. Its true ( well sexual predator might be more accurate) and its not angry vitrilic or name calling. But apart from that.........
read the post further up
if a truce can be called then maybe we can get on and discuss what’s happening rather than whether it’s a good or bad thing, where we aren’t going to find agreement anyway.
I'd be happy to cease the back and forth and as i said earlier, look at and comment on the traditions and history without justifying them, but I guess that is impossible to uncouple for some.
maybe we can get on and discuss what’s happening
You made a good post jonv and I appreciate it but what is actually happening here? What's to discuss?
As a serious and non-confrontational question, what impact is any of this going to have on the country besides people's sentiments? And how important are those?
what impact is any of this going to have on the country besides people’s sentiments?
It will give the tories a poll boost and prevent proper discussion in parliament of new policy
That’s why the BBC is right to prevent any dissenting opinion.
Do you really not understand why "The Queen, What a ****: The Documentary" might perhaps be considered slightly inappropriate the day after her death was announced?
You've had your entire life to dissent, and will have the rest of it too.
Ill accept the truce if the royalistss will stop all the pejorative name calling🤣
As a serious and non-confrontational question, what impact is any of this going to have on the country besides people’s sentiments? And how important are those?
For your first question I’d say none whatsoever. The second are only important on an individual level so again not very on any sort of scale.
lovely aerial shots across WGP to Slough in the background
As it happens I was on the long walk with Henry. Other end. Spoke with the police drone pilots who will be here for 10 days.
Greeted them with a “don’t see many of those around here!” Drones are banned with big yellow signs posted.
Never seen Windsor like it. Huge queues just to get to the end of the long walk. Few however made it the 2.4 miles to the copper horse, let alone the statue of the queen on a horse further in the park.
Ill accept the truce if the royalistss will stop all the pejorative name calling
I believe the name calling is a sign of being grown up.
I’d be happy to cease the back and forth and as i said earlier, look at and comment on the traditions and history without justifying them, but I guess that is impossible to uncouple for some.
Nice passive aggressive sneering there.
What traditions and history do you want to discuss exactly? We could go for how many of these "traditions" arent actually very old eg most of the state funeral stuff was rewritten by Victoria since she disliked the traditional stuff.
Edited as Cougar edited the bit I took issue with. See we can be grown ups!
I regret the last bit and edited. Apologies.
I stand by the rest though - there's a time and a place.
Do you really not understand why “The Queen, What a ****: The Documentary” might perhaps be considered slightly inappropriate the day after her death was announced?
A documentary that explores the future role of monarchy would be entirely appropriate.
Something that finds intelligent voices and offers a range of perspectives - for and against.
That looks at alternatives and how other countries handle constitutional checks and balances.
It would be topical, interesting and informative. And something you will not see on the BBC for reasons I have mentioned.
what is actually happening here? What’s to discuss?
a few posts above - the tradition and pageantry, for example. As I also said a few pages before, we live in a monarchy, like it or not, and we're going to have pageantry a-plenty. One can be interested in that without necessarily having to be vocally pro or anti.
Plus there is also an informative aspect still to be discussed such as when's the funeral and will supermarkets be shut. Which we can also do without having to argue.
look at and comment on the traditions and history without justifying them, but I guess that is impossible to uncouple for some.
The history is what's at the front of my mind in all this. Who was this person and why is she on telly wall to wall after her death?
I think the ‘There’s a time and a place’ is up there with ‘We’ll that’s how we’ve always done it’ as one of the most infuriating statements in life. Both get trotted out whenever people don’t want to deal with something. What better time to discuss the flaws of our current system than a time of change. I doubt any of the royal family frequent the STW chat forum so where’s the harm?
Nice passive aggressive sneering there.
Why? Both sides have fallen foul of it, me included.
What traditions and history do you want to discuss exactly?
Well for example, the accession council at St James Palace. Which has never been seen by anyone outside the membership of the council, and has then prompted me further to read about SJP, which I didn't know anything about previously.
YMMV.
This is genuinely a once in a lifetime experience
I'm curious to know what experience I am getting here that is once in a lifetime.
'what impact is any of this going to have on the country besides people’s sentiments?'
I think it can have a massive impact. Never heard the expression that the UK has never recovered from winning the second world war? Because the country hasn't - you can look at any metric - growth, productivity, it's been downhill ever since, and the country has a mawkish affection for Spitfires and Lancesters. I personally thing that the death of the queen breaks the thread holding the UK to that, and will allow the country to start to find a new place in the modern world.
Personally I'm a republican but have an admiration for the job she did, and certainly proved a point of decency in recent politics. It's the end of the era, so probably worth cancelling a few things for to remember. Your opinion may differ, but it's obvious some people on here struggle to see past the end of their nose.
Well for example, the accession council at St James Palace. Which has never been seen by anyone outside the membership of the council
Mildly interesting but given the fact it has never been seen before the chances of most of the rules having been made up on the spot are...
Plus it is pointless in terms of doing anything unlike say with electors of the holy Roman empire. Now that would be fun and interesting to watch. Would Charles get the vote or would they go for a wildcard.
and has then prompted me further to read about SJP, which I didn’t know anything about previously.
It does come up quite a lot not least with ambassadors to the UK being accredited by the Court of St James and most of the royals having lived there at some stage.
As I said, YMMV.
OK, I gave my opinion and others theirs. I'm out now.
certainly proved a point of decency
Allowing golden eagles and other birds of prey to be killed on the balmoral estate and not allowing the police to investigate these crimes properly?
Yes she had a sense of duty and made some decent speeches and her work in the war and aftermath was good for the country but her position means total detachment from reality and as the years went by she became more and more of an anachronism .
As for the pageantry? At best its bread and circuses and at worst it entrenches the uk class system and activly blocks any attempt to modernise our democracy.
Allowing golden eagles and other birds of prey to be killed on the balmoral estate and not allowing the police to investigate these crimes properly?
To be fair investigation into raptor persecution was also blocked at Sandringham. So there was consistency both sides of the border.
I personally thing that the death of the queen breaks the thread holding the UK to that, and will allow the country to start to find a new place in the modern world.
Best comment on the thread so far. I would love this to be true.
Did you see the video of Charles and his servant? Sums them up really.
Yes, I did. King Charles' facial expression made me laugh showing his human side. I doubt the "pen" assistant would be sent to the tower or "off with his head".
I mean if you are an assistant surely one of the role is to have attention to details, Yes?
The table is not large enough to have two large documents waiting to be signed, and the assistant should have noticed that in advance and should have moved the ink pot away.
Nahhh ... that's just normal human behaviour.
Two things for the critics:
1. This is just a human behaviour.
2. This is the formal occasion where there is an important document to be signed in front of the world, everyone gets nervous.
Nahhh … that’s just normal human behaviour.
It really isn’t. Moving them yourself, that’s normal human behaviour.
It really isn’t. Moving them yourself, that’s normal human behaviour.
It is especially if the person is paid to be an assistant. That is the assistant's job. i.e. attention to detail.
If I am a super rich person and hired someone to wipe my feet, I expect them to wipe my feet properly even when I can do it myself. That is because the person job is hired to do that job. If the person cannot do that job properly what's the use of hiring that person?
I think the ‘There’s a time and a place’ is up there with ‘We’ll that’s how we’ve always done it’ as one of the most infuriating statements in life.
Do you not understand the concept of timing in both comedy and politics? The nation is officially in mourning, millions are genuinely upset by the death of a much loved monarch, do you seriously believe that now is a good time to declare that the monarchy is shite and should be abolished?
Do you think it would be in tune with current public opinion? Or could there be a better time to make the case?
If the monarchy is to be abolished it is probably better to have a long political debate within the UK with a carefully thought out and publicly supported alternative.
And ideally when the current monarch dies a new constitutional pre-agreed protocol kicks in and the former UK seamlessly becomes a republic. Hopefully imo a people's republic, although highly unlikely as no doubt the bourgeoisie will still maintain a firm grip on power. Which probably make the whole transition fairly meaningless, although it will undoubtedly satisfy middle-class "radicals".
Abolishing the monarchy whilst there is a reigning king is a recipe for civil conflict and political upheaval. Best to declare the job redundant long before Charles the Third's death so everyone has plenty of time to get used to the idea.
I’m curious to know what experience I am getting here that is once in a lifetime.
A couple of weeks national mourning.
Do you not understand the concept of timing in both comedy and politics?
Yes, but I think it’s utter bollocks.
do you seriously believe that now is a good time to declare that the monarchy is shite and should be abolished?
On the chat part of a MTB forum, yes, yes I do.
Abolishing the monarchy whilst there is a reigning king is a recipe for civil conflict and political upheaval.
What exactly do you think is happening in this country now? That’s right, political instability and the spectre of civil unrest looming due to a cost of living crisis.