You asked:
what i'm interested to know is did as many folks vote for SNP as for yes in the referendum (not as a percentage of the vote). If not then it doesn't imo show any greater sway for independence after september.
1,454,436 SNP votes in the general election
1,617,989 Yes votes in the referendum
ok, you are wrong. The leader of the snp took part in several debates televised in England including saying they would prop up a labour minority government.As far as I know, the SNP didn't campaign in England - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
1,454,436 SNP votes in the general election
1,617,989 Yes votes in the referendum
Meaniless.
Doesn't account for the actual turnouts.
@beargrease interesting, Yes votes where 45% and SNP 50% and that was with 16-18yr olds voting in the referendum. Certainly understand left leaning voters voting no in order to protect wages and working conditions from the "race to the bottom" a Yes vote would have brought
@Bigbut - the SNP where all over our TV screens in the UK day in, day out. There is no doubt in my mind peole voted tactically with reagrd to the SNP and they made Labour lookk weak. The TV debate with Milliband and Sturgeon was a massive Labour error. It's really not hard to see they are unpopular with voters in UK as follows;
Tories, SNP are very anti Tory in their rhetoric
UKIP, SNP even more anti UKIP than Tory
Labour, pro union plus SNP accused them of standing with the Tories, SNP trying to win their seats weakening the party nationally
Meaniless
Not if you spend more than 1s thinking about it but I'm unable to help with your short attention span.
EDIT: Meaniless? Is that a word? Sorry I'm unable to help with your inability to use a spell checker.
EDIT #2: Added "Sorry" so as not to appear rude.
"I say give them full fiscal autonomy, scrap the Barnett formula and see how they like paying for their socialist utopia."
I doubt that Ann Gloag is paying so much money to the SNP just so they can bring about a socialist anything.
btw I agree this result isn't a mandate for another ref, the SNP never campaigned on that, so they will need to keep their powder dry until they have campaign on it.
Why can't we have a referendum in England to see how many people want to keep the Union with the Scots ?
TurnerGuy - Member
Why can't we have a referendum in England to see how many people want to keep the Union with the Scots ?
I'm not stopping you.
As a Scot who hasn't lived in Scotland for 30 years I've been trying to work out why Labour has been wiped out. Clearly the Scots don't want independence so why the support for the Scot Nats? I'm guessing from a distance that either Labour weren't left wing enough for them or they want Devo max or both. Fair analysis? In that case I say give them full fiscal autonomy, scrap the Barnett formula and see how they like paying for their socialist utopia.
Because on the whole, the Scots are a lot more switched on than we English seem to give them credit for. It's called having your cake and eating it. Realising that you can't make it on your own as a country, hence voting against devolution, but then voting your own national party into a massive landslide victory North of the border means they've effectively now got their own country, to run it as they want... Paid for by the rest of the UK of course...
But then there is some nice bike riding North of the border, so I'll not complain too much!
I N R A T S but
gobuchul - MemberNow the Conservatives have won a majority, it would seem they are not actually in a very strong position.
I am guessing that this massive support for the SNP, was on the basis the Scots were looking to be a tail wagging the dog, in collation with Labour.
Also, the strength of support for the SNP before the election is probably the reason we now have a Tory government, tipping the undecided towards the Tories.
So the SNP have given us CMD and a referendum on leaving the EU.
Oh the ironing.
Erm, no, England has given us a EU referendum by voting Tory. You could partially blame that on Labour being weak.
SNP has given Scotland's voters what they want.
but go on, have a good whine about it all!
EDIT Ooh more!
mboy - Member
Because on the whole, the Scots are a lot more switched on than we English seem to give them credit for. It's called having your cake and eating it. Realising that you can't make it on your own as a country, hence voting against devolution, but then voting your own national party into a massive landslide victory North of the border means they've effectively now got their own country, to run it as they want... Paid for by the rest of the UK of course...
The Yes vote seems to have grown and/or apathy grown in the no camp 🙄 . Sorry that you don't like that!
BigButSlimmerBloke >>
You voted for and got a Tory government. Well done you.
We didn't, but got one anyway.
Not quite, this is a United Kingdom, We voted for and got a tory Government. Well done or hard luck us. Scotland had it's chance to opt out of that "We", and chose to keep it. Saying we didn't vote for it so it isn't legitimate won't wash. It was agreed before the vote is would be a referendum not a neverendum.
I haven't read all that, so someone may have made a similar point.
In a couple of years we may have an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK out of the EU. The first would make me sad but it's understandable, the second chills me to the bone. Interesting times!
So the SNP have given us CMD and a referendum on leaving the EU.
No, the voters have given Scotland the SNP. It's called democracy.
My guess is the EU referendum is 50/50 and if we leave, then calls for Scottish independence and a referendum will be irresistible.
My guess is the EU referendum is 50/50 and if we leave, then calls for Scottish independence and a referendum will be irresistible.
Yeah, that'll work out well because what the EU really wants is another small country unable to pay it's way. They'll be over the moon about another Greece. *
* May contain irony.
1,454,436 SNP votes in the general election
1,617,989 Yes votes in the referendum
interesting numbers. Throw in the 16-18 year old vote and the numbers would be broadly similar.
I personally think the SNP without independence isnt nessecarily a bad thing. As Mboy says, having our cake and eating it....
The Yes vote seems to have grown
Well no it hasn't:
[*]1,454,436 SNP votes in the general election[/*]
[*]1,617,989 Yes votes in the referendum[/*]
Why let facts stand in the way of a throwaway line? How very "on" SNP message of you.
As said above, silly comparison.
So let's have some numbers to back up your assertion then? Or was that an AS style dismissal of dissenting voices?
interesting numbers
tpbiker, given that only 86% of SNP supporters voted Yes that would put current Yes vote at ~1250000.
As above, you've not factored in the lower turnout or the age difference.
But keep trying!
test
As said above, silly comparison.
Why is it a silly comparison?
Based on the reasonable assumption that most yes voters would vote snp and given their momentum in scotland the vast majority of yes voters would turn out in the GE to vote SNP...
You've ignored the age difference and 71 vs 85% turnout.
I think anyone trying to extrapolate referendum voting intentions from last night is daft tbh.
The 2 factors of no voting SNP supporters, and yes voting non voters makes it impossible to glean anything meaningful from it.
what age difference? The 16-18 yearolds? Reread my earlier post if thats what you mean.
TurnerGuy - Member
Why can't we have a referendum in England to see how many people want to keep the Union with the Scots ?
It would actually be a lot easier for Scottish republicans if England and Wales quit the Union: Scotland would keep the UK's seat on the UNSC, would still be a member of the EU (wouldn't need to apply for membership as an independent state and have to sign up to Euro currency commitments), would keep the pound as its currency... I suppose they'd have to deal with NI but I expect they could cook something up with Ireland on that score.
What are you guys going to call your new currency? You can probably borrow Charles as your head of state as much as you want, though...
The 2 factors of no voting SNP supporters, and yes voting non voters makes it impossible to glean anything meaningful from it.
my point was simply that the SNPs success was hardly a surprise as the numbers are generally the same as in the ref.
The 2 factors of no voting SNP supporters, and yes voting non voters makes it impossible to glean anything meaningful from it.
+1, as I said earlier: SNP votes are not independence votes.
No idea where independence support is at the moment. I would imagine the arse falling out the oil price has given a few Yes voters pause for thought, but likewise the prospect of another five years of Cameron will have the No voters pondering.
Can I have what youre having Konabunny 🙂
@Bigbut - the SNP where all over our TV screens in the UK day in, day out. There is no doubt in my mind peole voted tactically with reagrd to the SNP and they made Labour lookk weak. The TV debate with Milliband and Sturgeon was a massive Labour error. It's really not hard to see they are unpopular with voters in UK as follows;Tories, SNP are very anti Tory in their rhetoric
UKIP, SNP even more anti UKIP than Tory
Labour, pro union plus SNP accused them of standing with the Tories, SNP trying to win their seats weakening the party nationally
Ah so what you're saying is that people didn't vote Labour because the SNP are anti-Tory? Not sure I understand that, maybe you could explain it.
- or is it that the electorate in England is generally so feeble minded that people vote for something they don't agree with because the telly tells them to? Not sure I agree with that, are you sure you're not just judging people by your own standards?
- also, if the SNP were trying to win seats from Labour nationally, can you remind me of how many seats outside Scotland the SNP contested?
What are you guys going to call your new currency? You can probably borrow Charles as your head of state as much as you want, though...
The currency will be called the spondoolick and will be valued similar to the Italian Lire. This means we head out for a night oot wi' a pocketfu' o' spondoolicks and on good night, can happily spend millions of them.
I struggle to accept that a significant no. of SNP voters are no voters, given they are the only yes party with a chance.
With Sturgeon at the helm instead of Salmond, I think the yes campaign would be different second time round. I admire her much more than Salmond and I think she's more straight talking. I think we'd get more commitment over the issues that Salmond was too non-commital over (currency being the main problem)
This seems to me you are more thinking of voting for the party & its leader than for the concept of independence. If you believe in independence surly you should be voting for it either way. The leadership and position of a party is fleeting at best.
Spondoolick's have more credibility than AS's plan had 😉
My point/logic on Labour voters is that they resent the SNP characterising them as siding with the Tories and the fact the SNP is a direct threat to them electorially. A Labour voter in the UK does care about that. So the SNP is unpopular with them.
Borrowed words but its how I feel.
Am i alone in thinking it's not great the snp has 56 seats? Does one party represent the views of everyone in Scotland apart from shetlanders, orcadians and a few borderers? The snp won 50% of the vote on a 71% turnout. Half of voters didn't vote for them and another 30% didn't vote at all. That's not democratic, and incidentally, it's the same argument used by yes campaigners - that in scotland you never get the uk government you vote for. Half of scots are now represented in Westminster by a party they didn't vote for. I'm not blaming the snp - they can only work with the system they've got - rather it is the ineptitude of the other parties in Scotland to present any kind of viable alternative that's worrying. This result in Scotland and across the uk shows there is an urgent need for electoral reform - the sooner we get pr the better.
Either that or there needs to be one Scottish Unionist party to counter the SNP. Then it might be a fair competition.
On a related note, could a Leftist English Nationalist Party arise from the ashes of what was Labour?
Many I spoke to during indyref wanted Scotland to leave, several I have chatted to online today have mentioned that its time the English left concentrates on England.
Can a National Party in England be such without being hard right?
All the fascist/far right parties are also Unionists aren't they?
Good quote TP.
This result in Scotland and across the uk shows there is an urgent need for electoral reform - the sooner we get pr the better.
Don't hold your breath, given the Tories got a majority on 37% of the vote I can't really see them pushing for PR any time soon.
I'm all for PR. Parties will emerge that closer represent people views allowing a greater range of opinion that reflects the population.
There's the argument that the likes of UKIP will gain alot of seats, but that's a short term view, and I'm very much of the view that if you give them enough rope.. I think the change we would see over the longer term would be well worth it.
btw the scottish election next year will be interesting to see how strong SNP support is. Personally, I won't be voting for them.
PR and federalisation. Something along the lines of.
Scotland, Wale, NI, Northumbria, Mercia, East Anglia, Wessex, Cornwall+Deven + Somersetish. Exact boarders would need to be tweaked to even up population sizes a little.
After Scamerons visit to the Queen. He will put his energies into a policy, to make another referendum illegal.
On his list of priorities, it will be high.
chrissyharding - Member
After Scamerons visit to the Queen. He will put his energies into a policy, to make another referendum illegal.
On his list of priorities, it will be high.
What's the point in that? It's already illegal.
