I totally suppport the French and less bowing down to any religion and any sexism.
If you don't like the views of the country-then move out. If I went to Iran I would obey their rules. If I go to France or England etc I'd obey their rules too.
About time someone stood up to anti social ideology. Sorry if I sound offensive to any religious peeps but it's not the dark ages anymore.
Even Islam is misunderstood by it's followers. If God does exist-would god want you to kill and cover yourself head to toe? Bull$hit.
TS: I was coming to that .... 🙄
Zaskar - seconded.
but it's not the dark ages anymore.
Sure it's still the dark ages.
That's why we can tell people what they should, and shouldn't wear.
That's why we can show intolerance to other people's religious views.
Down with the age of enlightenment, long live the dark ages. Burn the witches.
[i]If you don't like the views of the country-then move out. If I went to Iran I would obey their rules. If I go to France or England etc I'd obey their rules too.[/i]
Fair enough, but both France and England are (to all intents and purposes) free countries, so if women want to wear the burka then that's up to them and their families. Imagine the hysterical reaction if someone told Sikhs that they shouldn't wear turbans. And is the "burka oppresses women" argument any more valid than the tabloids and stupid magazines that put women under pressure to be horribly thin?
May I add that I do beleive in God. However I dont beleive in a fellow man telling me that he has a direct-contact with God whereas I don't. A sort of modern-day witchdoctor, one upmanship. I don't beleive in organised religion, with control parameters. Sorry yet again if I offend anyone with these views.
The Burka should be strongly discouraged in Britain as it's offensive for anyone to cover their face in western culture.
As Western women respect the culture when visiting arab countries by covering up, Muslims who live here should respect our culture.
We tolerate all faiths in the UK, far more than than in most parts of the Middle East.
It's a simple give and take compromise - something we Brits excel at IMHO. Or would becoming tolerant be regarded as an erosion of a Muslim's human rights and we'd get sued?
Let's have a bit of balance shall we!
hora - MemberI dont beleive in a fellow man telling me that he has a direct-contact with God whereas I don't
Sure you have .......... you can email direct :
moderator@singletrackworld.com
:lol:PMSL at ernie_lynch
Sure you have .......... you can email direct :
and get through to some blokes who look likes extras on [i]Das Boot?[/i] 😕
G - MemberTS: I was coming to that ....
Had to happen mate! 😆
We tolerate all faiths in the UK, far more than than in most parts of the Middle East.It's a simple give and take compromise - something we Brits excel at IMHO. Or would becoming tolerant be regarded as an erosion of a Muslim's human rights and we'd get sued?
Spongebob - you don't think we've reached saturation point then?
"I dont think we should be shy anymore about telling Muslim women that full face burka is rude and unaceptable in the West."
Since when? Nothing wrong at all with covering your face. If you personally find it offensive that's fair enough, but don't pretend it's some universal norm, because it's just not.
Actually thinking about it theres a few munters I know who would look better in a burka...
Fair enough, but both France and England are (to all intents and purposes) free countries, so if women want to wear the burka then that's up to them and their families.
Do they want to, though - that's the point, innit?
Imagine the hysterical reaction if someone told Sikhs that they shouldn't wear turbans.
IIRC it is already illegal in France to wear clothes that show your religion in (not too sure...) state employment, and that the FIRST person to be prosecuted under that law was a Sikh.
And is the "burka oppresses women" argument any more valid than the tabloids and stupid magazines that put women under pressure to be horribly thin?
Maybe not, but no-one is saying "if a girl wants to die of starvation, it's her choice"; they're campaigning to end that pressure
Since when? Nothing wrong at all with covering your face. If you personally find it offensive that's fair enough, but don't pretend it's some universal norm, because it's just not
Covering your face is not offensive - in fact in some cases I recommend it. Being obliged to cover your face by a custom that classes women alongside barnyard animals is offensive, at best.
full face burka is rude and unaceptable in the West.
I know that it's not suppose to have [i]that[/i] effect, but I actually find it a bit of a turn on.
It's like having a 'gift wrapped' babe to me.
Am I sick ?
Yes.
it's offensive for anyone to cover their face in western culture.
No it's not. In some cases it should be positively encouraged; gurning dimwits on television (I'd welcome never having to see 'Wossy' or Ross Kemp's idiotic fizzogs again) and the less aesthetically pleasing. Imagine: Buffoons and ugly women hidden away. It would be, quite literally, a godsend! Insha'Allah!
Not sick - just getting that Taliban vibe.
As a Muslim friend said to me - "can you imagine how many poems are written in my language about a woman's eyes?"
I had the misfortune to be a teenager when girls were wearing long skirts. If I saw a knee I'd **** myself senseless for days. People go with what they have, and a religion, or culture, that tries to stop people thinking about sex is going to fail sure as eggs is eggs.
It's like having a 'gift wrapped' babe to me.Am I sick ?
Not at all, secrecy and seduction are closely related things. More of a lucky dip tho', eh?
More of a lucky dip tho', eh?
Could be a chocolate truffle or a boiled Brussels sprout.
26.
DrJ - MemberMore of a lucky dip tho', eh?
Could be a chocolate truffle or a boiled Brussels sprout.
Posted 4 minutes ago # Report-Post
LOL 😀
Spongebob - you don't think we've reached saturation point then?
Not at all! A multi-cultural Britain is enriching in many positve ways. I embrace it. This is not a race issue! Why can't people get their heads round the fact that tolerance of different cultures and religions is a two way street? That means we all live together and make compromises. If one religious group decide they want to go off the end of the scale and impose an alien culture to the extent that it disregards and disrespects other cultures, they must surely realise they are going to be met with contempt. There are wise people in all cultures, all walks of life, so what the heck is going on here?
Balance! That is what I avocate. We need to look for what we have in common, not what sets us apart!
Religion can easily become highly divisive. For the past decade or so, it has become nuch more of an issue in the UK, but I don't really know why. We all used to live in relative peace, but look at what has happened in places like Bradford for example - a fiercely divided community - very sad!
Some say we are experiencing the Islamification of Europe and that these extremist Imam preachers of hate have come and poisened the minds of good European citizens. I don't think people are that stupid are they? Conversely, opposers of these ideas irrationally react by shrieking "racist", that the objectors must surely be akin to Hitler and the Nazis etc. It is NOT racism! It's this sort of bullying reaction, the and irrational silencing of free speech, that means for example; idiots like the BNP not getting the opportunity fully expose their nasty hidden agenda - to victimise good people, people who contribute a great deal to society, but who happen to have the wrong colour skin. We can't debate why the Muslim community have been ramping up their crusade to convert ethnic communities to a much more authoritarian Islamic doctrine. Challenging this would be so politically incorrect, but what about the abuses that people are suffering as a result of this? It is not ok to beat your wife, or to disrespect Jews, or homosexuals. I listened to BBC R4 woman's hour about a group of muslim women who are in fear of their lives. Honour killings, forced marriages. All sorts of abuses of human rights brought about by Islamic culture. Sorry guys, but this matter needs to be aired!
I stand for peace, freedom and anti-stupidity. No religion fits in with this i'm afraid. Superstition is something born out of fear and ignorance. We really need to rid ourselves of this mumbo jumbo!
We need to be able to ask why there is so much hostility towards British culture. Why so many good people have rejected compromise and respect for others. My guess is they have either been bullied into it, brainwashed, or both.
(waiting for some unthinking person to call me a racist or right wing extremist - i'm neither, so don't waste your time)
I'll carry on observing. I hope my take on the situation turns out to be wrong.
That's terrific Spongebob and very well put. In Ulster I always stood for the rights of man, live and let live, the populist vote - but my views, like yours, will become unimportant when swept away in religous fundamentalism be that Christian, Islam, Jewish or whatever - you, me and every other twit on here will never be interviewed by the media, our voices will never be heard as we are too moderate for their tastes - unpallatable maybe but true. The fact is as with NI this country will slide into minority rule - it already has - do 'normal' people get air time? No.
It's the OJ Simpsons, the Michael Jacksons, the Gerry Adams, the Abu Hamza al-Masris who are listened to. Moderate voices such as yours and (surprisingly) mine are lost in todays world as they do not sell one inch of news print...
I feel violated if women wearing burka look at me. I feel naked as they check me out from head to toe. I want to sue. It is a gross violation of my human rights.
"We can't debate why the Muslim community have been ramping up their crusade to convert ethnic communities to a much more authoritarian Islamic doctrine. Challenging this would be so politically incorrect"
I like your post, but the fact is this IS being debated at all levels, it's not a taboo subject at all.
Northwind - Member"We can't debate why the Muslim community have been ramping up their crusade to convert ethnic communities to a much more authoritarian Islamic doctrine. Challenging this would be so politically incorrect"
I like your post, but the fact is this IS being debated at all levels, it's not a taboo subject at all.
Government actively discussing this subject then...
Government actively discussing this subject then...
That is correct Slapper - well done !
In fact some would say that it is something of an obsession with this government.
Gordon Brown :
[i]"I want to update the House, as I promised in July, on the measures we are taking at home - following the incidents on June 29th and June 30th - both to root out terrorism and to strengthen the resilience of communities to resist extreme influence measures that to succeed will require not just military and security resources but more policing, more intelligence, and an enhanced effort to win hearts and minds.
From the Home Office budget, from now until 2011, an additional £240 million will finance counter terrorism policing - focused as much on preventing the next generation of terrorists as pursuing current targets.
And this will include additional funding for further training of our 3,500 neighbourhood police teams to deal with radicalisation in their local communities.
I can confirm £70 million is being invested in community projects devoted to countering violent extremism.
So to deal with the challenge posed by this terrorist threat we have to do more, working with communities in our countries:
# First to challenge extremist propaganda and support alternative voices
# Second, to disrupt the promoters of violent extremism by strengthening our institutions and supporting individuals who may be targeted
# Third, to increase the capacity of communities to resist and reject violent extremism
# And fourth, to address issues of concern exploited by ideologues and where by emphasising our shared values across communities we can both celebrate and act upon what unites us
This will be achieved not by one single programme or initiative and it won't be achieved overnight.
It is a generational challenge which requires sustained work over the long term and by a range of actions in schools, colleges, universities, faith groups and youth clubs; by engaging particular young people through the media, culture, sport and arts; and by acting against extremist influences operating on the internet and in institutions from prisons to universities and some places of worship.
As part of intensifying measures to isolate extremism, a new unit bringing together police and security intelligence and research will identify, analyse and assess not just the inner circle of extremist groups but those at risk of falling under their influence - and share their advice and insights.
Building on initial roadshows of mainstream Islamic scholarship around the country, which have already attracted over 70,000 young people, and an internet site which has reached far more, we will sponsor at home and then abroad, including for the first time in ****stan, a series of national and local events to counter extremist propaganda.
And the next stage will draw on the work commissioned by the Economic and Social Research Council, Kings College and the Royal Society for Arts on how best to deal with radicalisation at home and abroad.
One central issue is how to balance extremist views supporting terrorism which appear on the internet and media.
The Home Secretary is inviting the largest global technology and internet companies to work together to ensure that our best technical expertise is galvanised to counter online incitement to hatred.
I also welcome the decision by the Royal Television Society and Society of Newspaper Editors to hold a conference on how to ensure accurate and balanced reporting of issues related to terrorism in the media.
To ensure charities are not exploited by extremists, a new unit in the Charity Commission will strengthen governance and accountability.
A specialist unit in the Prisons Service will be tasked with stopping extremists using prison networks to plot future activities.
And because young people in the criminal justice system are especially vulnerable to extremist influences, we are making further funding available through the Youth Justice Board, the National Offenders Management Service and the many voluntary agencies that work with young people in trouble to support young people who may be targeted for recruitment by extremist groups.
Following evidence that some of those involved in promoting violent extremism have made use of outdoor activity sports centres and facilities, we are working with Sport England to provide guidance for the sector to ensure that these facilities are not abused.
And backed up by a new website to share best practice, a new board of experts will advise local authorities, local councillors and local communities on tackling those promoting hate.
e have had mosques in the UK for more than a hundred years, serving local communities well.
These communities tell me that mosques have a much wider role beyond their core spiritual purpose in providing services, educating young people and building cohesion - and the majority already work very hard to reject violent extremism.
As the newly constituted Mosques and Imams National Advisory Body recognises however, the governance of mosques could be strengthened to help serve communities better and to challenge those who feed hate.
Our consultations with Muslim communities emphasise the importance of the training of imams, including English language requirements - and the Secretary for Communities will be announcing an independent review to examine, with the communities, how to build the capacity of Islamic seminaries, learning from other faith communities as well as experience overseas.
In addition to updated advice for universities on how to deal with extremism on the campus, the Secretary for Skills and the Higher Education Minister will invite universities to lead a debate on how we maintain academic freedom whilst ensuring that extremists can never stifle debate or impose their views.
And we will now consult also on how we can support further education colleges as well as universities.
And the Secretary of State for Culture is working with the museums, libraries and archives council to agree a common approach to deal with inflammatory and extremist material that some now seek to distribute through public libraries, whilst also protecting freedom of speech.
We know that young people of school age can be exposed to extremist messages.
The Secretary of State for Children will be convening a new forum of headteachers to advise on what more we can do to protect young people and build bridges across communities.
And to ensure young people have the opportunity to learn about diversity and faith in modern Britain, we will work in partnership with religious education teachers to promote the national framework for teaching religious education in schools including making sure children learn about all faiths.
An advisory group will work with local communities to support citizenship education classes run by mosque schools in Bradford and elsewhere.
And I can announce that one essential part of this will be to twin schools of different faiths with our £2 million pound school linking programme, supported by a new national website and School Linking Network.
Mr Speaker, it is by seeking to build on shared interests and shared values that we will isolate extremists and foster understanding across faiths.
Mr Speaker, there is no greater priority than the safety and security of our people and building the strongest possible relationships across all faiths and communities - and I believe it possible, with the actions we are proposing, to build a stronger consensus that will both root out terrorist extremism and build more vibrant and cohesive communities."[/i]
How's that ?
How's that ?
Weak.
How many individuals does it take to wage a terrorist campaign - with tacit, if not actual support of their communities? You really have no idea.
It's a sticking plaster on a problem that's here already. 99.9999% of Irish people are fine its the 0.0001% thats the issue - same with any religion, race or creed. Your government speaks and you believe - really without question?
Be as glib as you like - what Ober Lieutenant Von Brun does not seem or want to understand religion in its tribal sense - my god is bigger than your god etc. That drivel above demonstrates that in its entirity.
Truth is I don't have the answers, but the truth lies in people fully engaging and being part of this country.
Might have a look at this in the morning.
Is there actually anything of any intelligence, or is it just the usual Little Englander bullshit you usually get on here (can't be bothered to trawl through all the posts)?
Is Hora spouting his usual Tesco's own brand bollocks?
Ban everything, I say. And let people do whatever they please.
I only got up for a piss...
a custom that classes women alongside barnyard animals is offensive, at best.
Who told you about that???? I deny it all, anyway that last sheep baa'ed at me in a provocative way and wiggled its bottom, definately a willing partner..
Rudeboy, not like you. Usually you post a 5,000 essay on every post
He just got up for a piss. When he needs a shit we can expect a full Rudist monograph complete with mis-spelling and pretend gangsta hand gestures.
listened to BBC R4 woman's hour about a group of muslim women who are in fear of their lives. Honour killings, forced marriages. All sorts of abuses of human rights brought about by Islamic culture.
It is true every womans refuge centre in the UK is full of Muslim women ...the staff there often comment about how amasing it is that no non muslim women are ever seen in these places or assaulted, abused, beaten or raped by their partners or husbands and what an amasing culture of tolerance and respect we have for women that means we NEVER mistreat them 🙄
Junkyard shut up. Seriously.
Burkas strike me as rather odd, and I'm not confident that I understand the mentality which leads to the wearing of them, or leads to people pressuring other people to wear them.
However, I'm afraid we do have to accept that large numbers of muslim women cover up (even if they do not do the full burka) entirely voluntarily and because they feel that this is morally, religiously and/or culturally superior to the very high levels of public semi-nudity and sexualisation that we are used to.
Now, there may be a real problem with human rights lurking around down there for some (possibly for many) people. But I can understand why any woman wouldn't necessarily want to be on the receiving end of my own slightly predatory semi-staring in the street, or the incredible rash of comments that anyone who accidentally posts a picture of their wife looking a bit tubby gets on here, or the leering that a picture of Megan Fox in hotpants gets etc etc.
I suspect that part of the hostility to muslim women covering up is that it makes the rest of us feel judged, whether we are women wandering around in minimal clothing or men who like to peer at women. And we don't like feeling judged.
Banning one woman from wearing what she wants to so that everyone else can get on with "appreciating" tiny little shorts seems odd. 🙂
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Junkyard shut up. Seriously.
well now you have persuaded me with your powerful use of logic and reasoning ...
Hora - I must say I'm a wee bit lost also by your outburst? 🙄
Admittedly Junkyard perhaps over generalised but there appears some truth in what he says - no?
Sorry. I would get involved, but I'm too ill. 🙁
I love girls with seriously-toned legs in short skirts.
Tea Leoni in Bad Boys, her legs there were the ultimate for me 😀
Hora is generally a weathervane, and there are very, very few things on which he has a reasonably constant and unwavering opinion. His fear and horror of islam however has been a consistent feature of his online persona for as long as I can remember. You are baiting him on possibly the only authentic belief he has. Tread carefully. 🙂
Sufism. I think I could give that branch some less 'general' heat. Sufi poetry. Magical.
Admittedly Junkyard perhaps over generalised but there appears some truth in what he says - no?
Yes and no.
Yes there are instances of terrible abuse in this country. The No bit being that this abuse is not sanctioned, legitimised and perpertuated by our legal system.
Really?
I suspect that part of the hostility to muslim women covering up is that it makes the rest of us feel judged, whether we are women wandering around in minimal clothing or men who like to peer at women. And we don't like feeling judged.
I don't feel judged whatever i'm wearing and frankly I couldn't give a damn what people think of how I look, REALLY!
The speech from Gordaon sounds good, but in practice, will it make things better, or will minorities feel undermined by the increased surveillance and invasion of privacy? You can just hear them all complaining about being victimised. Like black people and stop and search issue many years ago. You have to rely on these people to self-regulate themselves, but this clearly hasn't stopped this threat to our security. If we let it go, we'll end up with the same strife that's afflicting ****stan.
I'm really dubious about any plan to fix this. You can't interfere with dogma. Remember that "rule by the rod" religions don't tolerate descent, where free thinking and questioning the scriptures is literally punishable by death. (yes this really is happening still).
You can begin to see why Henry the 8th decided on the disolution of the monasteries. Religion is a powerful monster, it controls so many gullible people and is incredibly dangerous.