[Closed] This New Forum

What is wrong with a forum that doesnt move, i.e. isnt covered in animated gif adverts?

It doesn't pay the hosting bills?

Bland i think you're being a bit harsh.
I dont tend to even notice the ads TBH. Yes there are a few of them, but so what? Do you complain about adverts on TV or in the papers? No. Someone has to pay the bills and ads do the job just fine.
With regards to the classified forum, its how it was before the great hack of '08 and it worked fine then.
Give it a month or so and you'll be used to it by then.

The forums are split into three not one and eparating the classifieds is a daft idea it's classifieds so you go there to buy, sell or exchange simple. The ads are never going away and I find them less obtrusive then pre-hack.

Thers ads on here?

What day is it again?

[img] [/img]

Its fine at the moment and getting more and more used to it now.
I am sure that it will end up looking like the previous pre-hack version (which was pretty much bob on before it went down).
As for the ads, well its just basic economics. Websites cost cash to run - ads produce cash.

I think that as a forum, this new incarnation is much more user-friendly and easy to use. Lots more helpful features too.

"And put your little hand in mine....."

Only thing I miss is the tab to change between forums.
I liked it so much I kept a pic
[IMG] [/IMG]

At least someone got it, Pook!

I don't like the ads, but more people click on the animated ads than on the still ones, so they're probably going to stay.

Splitting the forum any further would be terrible. I actually preferred it when the chat and bike forums were mixed together, though I can get that from the front page of the forum now.

I got banned for criticising the ads...

Bye bye lowey.

I got banned for criticising the ads...

I got banned for rick-rolling! 🙁

bland - I'm not keen on the new forum either, on several grounds:

1) The search is a pain to find.
2) The layout is horrible - you cant easily spot the start of a message - somehow it seems it would naturally be under the "underline" but thats near the end of the message. No like.
3) Adverts are a tad annoying, but necessary - as a forum admin and self-hosted person I know the need to get a little cash back if possible!

But separating the FS/WTD/EBAY into different forums WONT work IMO, it makes the for sale section work nicely but the wanted and ebay ones wont ever get a look in - keeping them mixed is good. Why would you want discussion in the for sale section?

So my recommendations for the site are:
1) Use the new-ish (before the git messed up the site) template but with the new (current) forum software, allowing edits etc.
2) Put the damn tabs back.
3) Put the search back at the top!

But it takes time to do these things, and the forums are an add-on for the magazine, not the be-all and end-all of the site.

I preferred the way that on the old site you could click on a forum and the threads would be arranged in the order they were made, and not by most recent reply. I like to look on the classifieds a lot but all i see at the top of the page are threads that i've already looked at - just that someone else has replied to. All the new (and potentially interesting) threads get pushed into oblivion. where do they go??!

having said that i don't mind the ads. i don't think this site would exist without them.

Well i didnt want to sound like too much of a winging swine even tough i did get on my soap box a bit.

How about a regional riding group section, i.e. splitting it up into different regions, an overseas section, a ride guide section, a technical help section, a ride guide/route section, thats what i was referring to.

Information just gets lost far too easily and i as one dont bother looking for useful information here which is a shame as there is a wealth of it going to waste.

I just think that it moves too fast and no real discussion is ever started as the popsts just get lost in the mass of irrevelant discussion.

I know its as it has been but the old one used to drive me mad too. SOuthern DH and descent world have it right even though its full of Groms you can gain useful info on reviews, rides, races etc etc and topics remain in view for more than a day

I suspect that this forum is very much a work in progress, thrown up in a hurry when the old one got hacked.

So it'll not have many of the features that the guys eventually want right now..

But the ads, which pay for this *free to the user* service, are here to stay, I reckon.

I preferred the way that on the old site you could click on a forum and the threads would be arranged in the order they were made, and not by most recent reply.

I personally dont think people come on here for in depth discussion, whenever one occurs half the members moan that its boring, someone gets heated about something and people get banned. Its a bit like going to the pub and having a mate sit and explain the complexities of thermo/fluid dynamics over 4 hours rather than just point out that hot fluid sounds softer when you pour it than cold (it does, listen when pouring cold and boiled water from the kettle into the same receptical!).

Internet discussion is rarely based on truth and reality, its usually based on opinions. other than factual "here is how you clean an X" posts, most of it is just people regurgitating google results and pretending to know all anyway, in any forum.

I run a few forums (car and sport related) and all of the ones broken down into areas and tech help, chat on and off topic etc are a waste of time - the mods are constantly moving posts between forii as people got it wrong, one or two of the boards get the most viewings and people asking for help in one of the less frequented boards never get a response because people like to congregate in one area (like in parties, people tend to stand/sit in one room and have little discussion groups, rather than spread out into different rooms hoping for a more pure discussion.

If you keep harping on about your ban Simon I'll ban you again.. and we have some new very cool mod powers now too 😉

On a serious note it's important to bear in mind that we are not at a finished product yet and there's still lots to do and things to change. The ads you see here on this forum are the same ones you had on the old forum and as has already been said they are required and will stay. They used to run down both sides of the site and we switched them over to the right hand column only, albeit making that column wider, in order to reduce the visual impact. Of course doing that has to be balanced against the fact that visual impact is an intrinsic part of effective advertising. Oooh it's all so complicated 🙂

[i]most of it is just people regurgitating google results and pretending to know all anyway,[/i]

I contest that!

i cant't get too excited about layouts but then i'm not an IT geek. Doesn't take long to find your way around again, you can read stuff, post stuff, buy & sell stuff...seems fine to me.

[i]How about a regional riding group section, i.e. splitting it up into different regions, an overseas section, a ride guide section, a technical help section, a ride guide/route section, thats what i was referring to[/i]

I like the simplicity of STW myself 3 simple forums, one for bikes, one for selling stuff and one for talking absolute drivel a bit like the other 2 but random drivel.

[i]If you keep harping on about your ban Simon I'll ban you again..[/i]

I mentioned it as a warning...

I don't believe you...

🙂

[i]I don't believe you...[/i]

it was the truth. I rarely lie.

BAN HIM BAN HIM BAN HIM...

<Runs off and hides>

[i] DezB - Member

Only thing I miss is the tab to change between forums.
I liked it so much I kept a pic
[/i]

I would have thought it would be an easy change to add links to each of the forum sub sections, they're static urls after all..

Ooooh! Fight! 😉

I'm only jealous of the size of his lens... 😀

Too many sub categories is not good. Have you ever tried to find your way round Descent World, or Bike Radar? I can never decide which section to put a post in, so I just don't bother. Nice and simple is best. (Jeeze, I sound like a singlespeeder!!)

I think we have a nuanced situation. When Chipps came to give the Bog Trotters a talk in 2006, he told me STW accounted for about 15% of ST revenue. Now, judging by the remarks made when the site was hacked, the proportion is a lot more significant. Although the Singletrack team provide support for the forum, their contribution to its content is quite small, and what gives the site its value is the contributions of the membership, yet we are told, because it is 'free', we have no say in how it is run, and are liable to be banned if we criticise some aspects of its operation (especially the moderation). I have no particular beef with autocracy, provided it is benign, but I think it might behove ST to admit that it is our use of the forum that is increasingly paying [b]them[/b], and stop pretending we are relying on their generosity. I'm grateful for the existence of the forum, it's great fun, but I'm unwilling to bend to arbitrary power. Criticism has a useful function as a means of improvement.

I'm saddened by the fact that I had pause to think that I might be banned for posting this 🙁

Our policy on how we run the forum remains the same Simon. We ARE very appreciative of the support we have got from readers of this website over the years but our moderation of the forum has always been wih the aim of preventing it from becoming like many others out there in terms of layout and organisation and also in terms of the content and how it is used by the readers.. There is a perception by many forum users (and I'm talking all foums and not just bikes) that you are free to say whatever you wish to say and that no one should be offended because, and I quote what has now become a cliche, ,'It's only a forum' or, 'It's not real life'.

Well we have always disagreed with that standpoint. This IS real life. What is posted here has the same impact on readers as if it was said to their face. More so in fact as the audience here is much MUCH larger. Our guiding principal and one which we fully intend to stick to, is that you say on here only what you are prepared to say to the recipients face, in the REAL world. There is NO difference as far as we are concerned. We add to that that thsi forum is to be considered as if it was a public place, such as a pub or cafe etc. You would not expect to be allowed to act in a way in a pub that would be detrimental to the pub itself. If you shouted in a pub that this pub was rubbish and there was better and cheaper beer down the road you would expect to be asked to leave. The principal is the same here.

All are welcome. All are welcome to express opinions and chat and be respectful of everyone else who comes here. But as soon as you start to act in a way that contradicts those principals you will be asked to leave.

The rules we have in place are designed to allow the forum to be used by the widest possible range of contributors. That's why you have to be mindful of what you post and how it will be received in exactly the same way you would moderate yourself in any public place. The fact you are seemingly shielded from the direct consequences of your posts on any forum is an attitude that all users of this forum must resist if they want to continue to use it.

These are our principals and they will remain so for the foreseeable future of this forum. We don't think they are too much to ask really and if you summarise them down to a restriction of free speech and find them objectionable in that context then you are free to do so.. but it doesn't change how we expect you to behave and use this forum.

We have never shied away from criticism and we welcome it, contrary to popular belief, but if that criticism has a direct impact on the existance of this website then we will remove it. Censor it. Moderate it. However you want to express it. But it is the way this forum has operated for years and we feel they are the reason that this forum beats the pants off all the other bike forums out there in terms of sheer volume of posts. Just look at the numbers at the top of the forum.

So Simon, I welcome your comments and because they are neither rude, disrespectful or threaten to undermine the ability of this website to pay it's way in order to provide you with its functions, your post stays and this discussion continues.

Nothing wrong with any of that sort of modding, Mark - IMHO it is one of the things which makes this forum so good, and I've certainly complained before about people thinking that because it's a forum it doesn't matter what they say and that it's fine to bully people. The issue is that sometimes it has seemed to go a little beyond that in censoring viewpoints which disagreed with the corporate policy.

I should admit that in my former guise I too once got banned for a similar reason to sfb - though have to say that Mark et al were extremely responsive in sorting the problem I objected to whilst I was banned 🙄 Hope it doesn't get me banned again to suggest that being banned from here once is a badge of honour a bit like being imprisoned by the Brits was for revolutionary leaders 😀

...and back to the new forum - IMHO it has many advantages to the old one, but still missing some things (which have mostly already been mentioned), like the tabs and the preview (edit isn't quite the same).

I, as a lurker, think the forum seems to operate pretty well compared to many others. Part of that is the moderation. It's hard to build up online communities and the general evidence is that the ones that work well and last have a pretty strong ethos on what the community is about and what sort of place it should be. And enforce it[0]. This is especially true of things like forums which have a very low barrier to entry.

So, you might not like some of the rules but I think the forums wouldn't be nearly as useful as they are without them.

0: A good example of this is Flickr: if you go and trawl through the help discussion on flickr then it's full of examples where moderators have stepped in to close stuff down that they see an inappropriate. Flickr and especially Heather Champ - their community manager - get a lot of respect for their skills at building a community.

Can we have a forum forum to discuss the forum?

[i]and I quote what has now become a cliche, ,'It's only a forum' or, 'It's not real life'.[/i]

oh yes, I agree about that. The medium of communication is irrelevant, except inasmuch as remarks shouted over a fence (like this) may be made with slightly less regard to the consequences. I think from time to time you're a little precious about moderation, but I agree it is needed, and I can see that you don't want to endlessly revisit the same arguments over it.

I make no apologies (to you at least) for banning you. You pissed me off! So I picked on you and made a special rule just for you at that particular time. I'm precious about this place, yes. It's a major part of my life and who I am. When people start to undermine it I get grumpy. Mostly because I have a unique POV in that I see the direct impact that this place has on the lives of everyone that both Chipps and I are responsible for. This is the way I am and the way I have always been, and I daresay I shall continue to be that way in the future. It's YOU who has to get used to that, I got used to it a long time ago 🙂

[i]I make no apologies (to you at least) for banning you[/i]

none needed, it lasted a whole 8 hours of which 5 were spent out riding 🙂 You in turn may rest assured that the possibility of a ban will not prevent me from saying anything I think needs to be said!

[i]I make no apologies (to you at least) for banning you. You pissed me off! So I picked on you and made a special rule just for you at that particular time[/i]

i think before i comment on this i'd better ascertain whether you're serious, or if the smiley face at the end of your commentary was intended to cover every sentence contained therein.

[i]Can we have a forum forum to discuss the forum? [/i]

just make your own :o)

[i]i'd better ascertain whether you're serious[/i]

of course he was serious!

Points taken and i agree with your view Mark, everyone has opinions and discussion can be healthy.

One point though the top of the forum list says "topic Author" but it should say "last post by" as thats what its showing. Just a nit pick sorry!

[i]of course he was serious![/i]

thanks simon, but he has a keyboard, right?

I was serious. He didn't break a particular rule at that time but the culmination of his previous posts and then finally the one that broke the camels back, caused me to act. It was a typical rant about our use of advertising which you may be aware is a particular bugbear of simon's. If you want to assign a particular rule to his banning it would be our catchall rule of negative use of the forum. But in all honesty I, and others here, had simply had enough of his constant 'digs' at our advertising policy and in particular how it was possible to set up a browser to mask them. So he was banned. And here at the office blood pressures fell for 8 hours (especially mine) and we all felt better for it. Now Simon is particularly careful when the topic of advertising crops up and considering his previous views on the matter, we think that is a good thing. And to be clear on that point, the topic of advertising per se is not an issue but the topic of how to mask or disable ads on our website is one we do not allow to take place on this forum for really quite blindingly obvious reasons.

Could we have a little peace returned to the forum. It's always such a happy place. We don't need all this bickering when everything in the big bad world is going to pot.

The STW cheers me up every day!

I'll shut up now.

Thank you. 😀

Mark, I have a considerable sympathy with anyone attempting to moderate a ënet forum. Itís a thankless task, the only certainty being youíll never please everyone.

You gave very clear, unambiguous and frank posting guidelines in your [i]Our policy on...[/i] post. Which you then completely undermined with your [i]You pissed me off! So I picked on you and made a special rule just for you at that particular time.[/i] commentary.

So which is it? Should I quake in my boots at somehow pressing one of your buttons? Or should I read the words on your original post, abide by them, and post within those guidelines?

Frankly, I donít give a hoot over your advertising policy. Anyone taking pot shots at your commercial operation deserves anything you care to throw at them. I do care when you appear to speak with the voice of a measured rational individual in one post and the voice an angry petulant individual in the next. Inconsistency worries me.

Please, clarify the situation.

Just to help you out, ro, I'm sure it will be quite clear when you're about to get a ban in the way sfb did. IIRC he even got a warning shot across the bow, but in any case it was pretty obvious what was coming, even to sfb, but he still couldn't resist the final post which resulted in the ban!

Yes... he was warned.. Yes, he pushed my buttons.. I got pissed off and banned him. That's because I and all the moderators are human, no apologies there. Like aracer said above, those that watched it happen saw it coming and very few people had any sympathy other than those that liked to watch Simon stir things up, as he is want to do.

So, you can call it inconsistent if you like but he still deserved it. Simon is a master at keeping just the right side of the rules 'technically' but he has a real and admirable talent at doing so with maximum irritation. It's a genuine talent he has. Many have said to me that I shouldn't let him or others like him wind me up and I should ignore it. All I know is that for 8 hours after I banned him I had a sense of peace and calm at work.

One point though the top of the forum list says "topic Author" but it should say "last post by" as thats what its showing. Just a nit pick sorry!

no, it's now 'topic author' because that's what everyone asked for. This is not an invite for everyone to ask for more.

very few people had any sympathy other than those that liked to watch Simon stir things up, as he is want to do.

[i]That's because I and all the moderators are human, no apologies there.[/i]

I didn't request an explanation or an apology. I asked for clarification on the forum posting guidelines.

[i]So, you can call it inconsistent if you like.[/i]

I do, and I have, because that it what it is.

[i]Many have said to me that I shouldn't let him or others like him wind me up and I should ignore it.[/i]

I would agree with the 'many'.

However, that does nothing to assuage my confusion. Am I bound by your rational or too-easily-wound-up persona when posting here?

Mark, it's a serious question and I'd appreciate a considered response.

Mark, the forum says "author" and displays the name of the last poster. Can you have a look at it once you stop defending the right decision which you made despite wrong reasoning behind it? Thanks.

It's correct now. Lovely!

old forum was better and would be good to see it up again. but, don't take it all to heart and do as OP says and segregate everything or it'll end up like this....
[url] http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/index.php [/url]

very german, alles in ordnung

J

I like the new Forum. Only thing i'm not a huge fan of is when you click a link it takes you away from STW, and onto the link, rather it open the link in a new window.

🙂

Right Click

druidh - Member
Right Click

But that is hassle 😉

Oh yes - not noticed that before, will. Can't believe it's a huge coding change to add that in (IIRC in HTML it's something like "target=_blank")

Not that much hassle to middle click, or Ctrl click if you're using a modern tabbing browser though.

[i]ut in any case it was pretty obvious what was coming, even to sfb, but he still couldn't resist the final post which resulted in the ban![/i]

being told not to do something or else obligates me to do it straight away :o)

[i]but he has a real and admirable talent at doing so with maximum irritation[/i]

I don't even know why I do it - perhaps it is just my inherent vocation. It may be that it forces people to reveal their true nature.

[i]All I know is that for 8 hours after I banned him I had a sense of peace and calm at work. [/i]

it was worth it then 🙂

yes it was and like I said at the time it was as much a cathartic action as a moderation one 🙂

Ro?
I'd say go and look at the thread in question and form your own opinion. But that's gone - bugger.

But I don't think you as much want a clarification as an argument. It's a forum. behave yourself and you are fine. Deliberately annoy people and you are not. It's not rocket science.

[i]Hairychested - Member
Mark, the forum says "author" and displays the name of the last poster. Can you have a look at it once you stop defending the right decision which you made despite wrong reasoning behind it? Thanks.

Posted 59 minutes ago #
Hairychested - Member
It's correct now. Lovely!

Posted 57 minutes ago #
[/i]

It's not working here. Am I doing something wrong?

Sorry, it is half working. On the main page it shows the author, but when you go to the individual forums it still shows the last poster.

It's a change we have recently made so it's likely a cache issue. But Tom will correct me if that's wrong.

It's a change we have recently made so it's likely a cache issue. But Tom will correct me if that's wrong.

It was not cache, it was a stupidity issue. fixed.

Is there any chance of searches finding words <4 chars? Searching per forum? A few more search features at least - seeing as we'll have no ammunition for the "USE THE SEARCH" people (like myself) if we cant moan at newbies legitimately not searching.

Mark: You pissed me off!

No swear filter then? 😉

Tom: It was not cache, it was a stupidity issue. fixed.

I like that sort of honesty 🙂

As Mark is observing this topic I'm just going to quickly say what I miss?
I know things are still in creation mode but some things evolved nicely.
Having the option of having replies noted - i.e. recieving an e-mail to say you have a response.
The topics being put in intitial posting order - I know where to find them and don't miss any. I know someone else earlier mentioned it too. Perhaps this can be a future 'option' like Outlook Express columns.
I don't have a Mac Mr/Ms. druidh, but those with one can't right click. I did like the pop up in a new tab.
These are of course preferences and I shall still visit even if you deliberately ignored me.

Now that the author of a thread is shown, I kind of miss the last author 🙂 I think it's just because I've got used to it over the last week or so.

I always disliked the fact that links opened in a new window, so I prefer the new method.

I like the fact that the most recent replies come to the top as you can keep tbs on your favs easily. I do miss the tabs for each forum as its a pain albeit a small one having to go back to change forums.

Can't work my way through all the above but it does strike me that (and you don't half see this on other forums) that some people see a forum as a electronic Speakers corner. Open to all. They aint and any moderator should have total freedom to do what the hell they like. It's their ball etc. I always reckon this forum is well run. Anyway if anyone doesn't like it they can always goes elsewhere.

but i got nowhere else to go!!

[i]It's their ball etc[/i]

but, as I pointed out, our attention is paying them, so the situation is more complex. With good will it works fine, but that doesn't mean we aren't entitled to monitor their performance and comment on it.

[i]But I don't think you as much want a clarification as an argument.[/i]

Mark, don't sit at your keyboard and tell me what I do or don't want. It's condescending and, in this instance, completely incorrect.

You were asked, in your position as moderator, to answer a simple direct question relating to a statements you made - unprompted by me - on this thread.

You ignored my question, twice, and repeated a 'defense' of an action about which I'm neither interested nor care. If I'm taking the time to come and post here - just as I take the time to search out and buy your magazine in Bangkok or Singapore when I visit - I do care about what I may say and how I may express myself.

I'm a customer. Treat me like one, not like some wandering ninny you stumbled over on the way to an important meeting.

Please. Answer. The. Bloody. Question.

I've forgotten the question 🙁

the reason you forget things, simon, is because you're aging.

don't stress, little one, just accept it's natures way of telling you your end is fast approaching.

best move on to full suspension bikes now. you know it makes sense....

Give me a T give me a ro give me a LL !

I think Mark explained himself just fine ro, if you continued like this to the landlord of my local pub he'd have put you out the back doors on your bum by now 🙂

Ha, this has made me laugh.

In the real world (say a pub or cafe) you also pay the owner & the staff's wages.

They also reserve the right to refuse service if you are being a cock.

Simple really.

HTH

:-)Yay, the buttons are back
😕 Boo, the Search has vanished

[i]the reason you forget things, simon, is because you're aging[/i]

wrong. I've been absent minded since I was 6. Anyway, I suspect you've forgotten too as you've not reiterated it