[Closed] This is America

Well, the thought occurs that, if I have to watch a video to tell me what the first video meant to tell me, maybe we're a little hasty applying the 'genius' tag to that first video. But yours is an opinion I respect, Mike - I'll give it another go.

That Bassline tho...

[i]can’t really avoid the Childish Gambino video hype[/i]

I seem to have managed it.

Thanks for posting - saw the vid promoted by Youtube and on principle never watch videos promoted to my account!

Bloody brilliant that. Wow

there were a few cultural references that I wasn't aware of which the video explained, the rest is really social commentary which is making people ask questions.

Shamelessly stolen fron a friend’s Facebook –

I would have left it where it was..

He’s written a lot about it, but he’s completely missed the point of the whole thing. 🤔

I would have left it where it was..

Too right.

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Shamelessly stolen fron a friend’s Facebook –

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You have friends ?

I would have left it where it was..

Indeed.

He's a pretty magnetic character. Hard not to like him in interviews. Much more so than some of the other star actor/producer/musicians around.

Can't say the video does much for me, because like 90% of the population, I'm already aware of this stuff.
But maybe there are some of the 10% that this can communicate with. Maybe - or maybe they'll just click on the next hyped music video and forget about it.

"Pondo wrote,

Well, the thought occurs that, if I have to watch a video to tell me what the first video meant to tell me, maybe we’re a little hasty applying the ‘genius’ tag to that first video."

So your definition of genius is only using concepts and references that everyone gets? That's not genius, that's someone posting a meme on their facebook.

Can’t say the video does much for me, because like 90% of the population, I’m already aware of this stuff.

Perhaps 90% of the people you know.

Meh, nothing special

Donald McKinley Glover Jr. is an American actor, comedian, writer, director, producer, singer, songwriter, rapper, and DJ.

He keeps himself busy anyway! Not into music really but thought I recognised him. He does stand up and was in the TV series Community.

But maybe there are some of the 10% that this can communicate with. Maybe – or maybe they’ll just click on the next hyped music video and forget about it.

Yah yah, good point. That's probably why nobody has watched it and there's no discussion about it taking place. Hm.

He’s written a lot about it, but he’s completely missed the point of the whole thing.

Knowing him as I do, I would say that you're talking about different points. He hasn't missed the point you're discussing, he's making a different point. Which I appreciate is not obvious if you don't know him.

So your definition of genius is only using concepts and references that everyone gets? That’s not genius, that’s someone posting a meme on their facebook.

No. not as a definition of genius in general - in reference to a pop song/video (and maybe it's just me) but if it's not reasonably obvious, then the point gets mixed, where's the genius in a song you have to have explained to you? I mean - pop music, that's short for popular, right? Did anyone else get the reference to the red cloths that Alpin's video explains? Or why the old American cars are there (and aren't some of those Japanese?)? I want music to grab hold of my ears and not let go, make me want to listen to it over and over - this song ain't that for me. If it is for you, that's fine, and enjoy. Me, I don't get the genius of his Confederate trousers, and apologies if that makes me stupid.

Yah yah, good point. That’s probably why nobody has watched it and there’s no discussion about it taking place. Hm.

I watched it cause Facebook (and for a second time because of this place, damn you all! 🙂 ). Hoping that good things come of it, not holding my breath, not expecting vast swathes of NRA card-carrying Trump-voters to change their votes, maybe I'm wrong, hope I am.

Did anyone else get the reference to the red cloths that Alpin’s video explains?

Enough for me to want to know what it was about, it was very deliberate especially the second time

 Or why the old American cars are there

Trump is trying desperately to hang onto dead and failing industries, the steel tariffs at the expense of new jobs are an example of that. Promising the rust belt something from the past won't fix things

 not expecting vast swathes of NRA card-carrying Trump-voters to change their votes, maybe I’m wrong, hope I am.

You will never change the extremes, what you aim for is the ones in the middle who are either apathetic or not overly to one side.

See also this one

"Like."

The problem with interpretation is it means different things to different people - so, the cars either reference Trump's commitment to failing industries, as above. Or it could be (Google tells me) Philando Castile and other police homicides, or that (unlike most rap videos) most Americans don't drive new cars - I dunno, is that what genius is? Maybe it is - he's popped in there, clearly for a reason, but no-one can be sure what it means. Maybe I'm missing the point but I'm listening to the music going "that's alright - no better than that."

Maybe I’m missing the point but I’m listening to the music going “that’s alright – no better than that.”

Second time around I wan't really listening to the music, it's hopefully starting conversations in the US in the wake of the school shootings

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/14/us/national-school-walkout-gun-violence-protests/index.html

and the #MeToo movement a lot more questions are being asked and what people accept as normal is being questioned.

"Like", again - maybe it IS just me! 🙂

No. not as a definition of genius in general – in reference to a pop song/video (and maybe it’s just me) but if it’s not reasonably obvious, then the point gets mixed, where’s the genius in a song you have to have explained to you? I mean – pop music, that’s short for popular, right? Did anyone else get the reference to the red cloths that Alpin’s video explains? Or why the old American cars are there (and aren’t some of those Japanese?)? I want music to grab hold of my ears and not let go, make me want to listen to it over and over – this song ain’t that for me. If it is for you, that’s fine, and enjoy. Me, I don’t get the genius of his Confederate trousers, and apologies if that makes me stupid.

I would say the very definition of artistic genius is the fact that it bears watching/reading/looking at multiple times and you gain more from the repetition. If something is so facile that you are able to ascertain all it has to say in a single visit it is hardly genius. I think it a great shame that you feel that pop should mean simple. This is plainly popular - 120 million views means it is certainly not niche. But popular (pop) has not always meant lowest common denominator. Shakespeare was the epitome of popular culture at the time of writing and on the surface was an author of simple cheeky superficial plays - the genius is in the hidden complexity. This is similar in that respect. This is not a pop song, but if viewed through a simplistic lens could be mistaken for one.

This is not a documentary; it is not a medium intended to present new facts and educate in that sense. It is an art form intended to provoke emotion around the issues it concerns. It might not have done that in you, but it has done it for a lot of other people. For me it is refreshing that a piece of performance art has been so embraced by so many.

It's no I pet goat II .

But popular (pop) has not always meant lowest common denominator.

There were those who considered Mozart to be lowest common denominator...

I get that it needn't be immediately obvious, and I'm sorry if you think I feel pop should be simple. But I repeat, where’s the genius in a song you have to have explained to you? Shakespeare's a great analogy, his plays work on many levels so were accessible and meaningful to pretty much everyone. The song itself ain't all that (totally appreciate that's a very personal observation), and the video has loads of symbology that's either a bit obscure (Confederate trousers, red cloths, old cars) or bluntly obvious (shootings, juxtaposition of school kids and violence, a black person running away from a white mob).

Shakespeare’s a great analogy, his plays work on many levels so were accessible and meaningful to pretty much everyone

He is, at the time he was churning out entertainment for the masses, a few hundred years of study and we have analysed every word and inference in the texts, yet people will still debate it.

Pondo wrote,

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No. not as a definition of genius in general – in reference to a pop song/video (and maybe it’s just me) but if it’s not reasonably obvious, then the point gets mixed, where’s the genius in a song you have to have explained to you?

The key word there is "you". Different people will "get" different things. Like, I didn't get the Jim Crow visual at all, but that doesn't mean the next person didn't. Some people'll hardly get anything, some people will find their own meanings, some 1 in a million might pick up every reference and nuance...

I can't see the hare in Rain, Steam and Speed- I've been shown where it is, I'd still have taken it for just a wee blob. And that's OK too.

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Absolutely. Do you think people will still be debating the meaning of...

"Look how I'm geekin' out

I'm so fitted

I'm on Gucci

I'm so pretty

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I'm gon' get it </span>

Watch me move"

... Four hundred years from now?I dunno, maybe they will - but for me, genius it ain't.

It depends what it inspired and its context.

FFS they make schoolkids write essays about some scribbles about daffodils and clouds

The key word there is “you”.

You're f***in' A that's the key word - I'm sorry if you think I've been judgemental, you have my abject apologies if anything I've said has been in any way seen as a criticism of the song, but I (I, me, just me, not saying it's bad) do not get the "genius" label the world has attached to it. If you love it, I'm sorry not to comply, but it does nothing for me. My last word on it.

But I repeat, where’s the genius in a song you have to have explained to you?

Possibly it's that there could be people who are part of the problem (for one/all of the issues involved), but who are not the extremists, who might see this.  As mikewsmith said:

You will never change the extremes, what you aim for is the ones in the middle who are either apathetic or not overly to one side.

The song and video are very popular and will reach a wide audience.  If it gets some of those people to say "Huh? What was all that about then?" and they have things explained to them, they *might* just have a light-bulb moment.  A bit like the excellent racism video up there ^, people often just act the way they do without really thinking about the consequences.  If you can educate some people on some of the issues then a little progress has been made.  In this instance making a popular but slightly cryptic music video seems to be an effective way of doing that.

@Pondo, don't be apologising, nothing to apologise for! I don't like the song that much btw! The bassline's awesome but the vocal's lightweight and I really don't like the looped vocals (repeating a line's one thing but it just sounds so weird when you loop the recording instead of just singing it twice) .I mean, imagine Chuck D delivering the lines with the voice of god instead. And the actual volume of lyrics is so low, it'd take exhibit about 20 seconds to get to the end. But people aren't really talking about just the song or just about the video

And what I'm really getting at is, does it matter what percentage of the audience will get 100% or 90% or 10% of the content? Even if you get no subtext at all it's a pretty mesmerising performance just for pure theatre, like This Too Shall Pass only with other stuff going on. It's not like a housebrick in an art gallery that's just like soooooo profound man because blah blah, it's... like a painting where you can not worry about whether ithe sunset represents the decline of british sea power or the end of the heroic age of naval warfare or a golden tribute to a ship's life, or actually is just a bloody gorgeous painting of a sunset.

(OK, don't get too carried away me, I'm not saying it's a Turner painting really. Just that it can be enjoyed with or without subtext and a degree in musicvideology)

I like the colours used for the room / painted on the wall that the choir sing in......I believe it is reference to the new Ben and Jerry's Swirly Berry Limited Edition flavour

Wow, got you lot taking about the vid eh.

That new series of his is call Atlanta (not Atlantic) and is on BBC2, if anyone’s interested.

That’s a great piece of performance art and I’m glad it’s got people talking. That can only be s good thing. Whether it’s genius or not really doesn’t matter, as long as it serves the purpose that the artist intended it to.

Lyrically I think it’s quite weak, but the visuals are stunning. That’s just personal preference though. Artists such as Brother Ali (in particular Uncle Sam, Goddamn) and B. Dolan (Which Side Are You On) are better political lyricists in my opinion. I’d love to see a collaboration with either of those and Gambino.

Atlanta is a great. I’m keeping my eye out for a Now TV offer so I can watch the second series

Quite like it when pop tries to do something a bit different.

Personal interpretation is a weird thing. First reference came to my mind with dancing on the car was a Michael Jackson video (for Black Panther IIRC. Interesting...).

Also, if the genius word is being bandied about, who are we lauding? Glover (talented as he undoubtedly is), or whoever directed the video? Team effort?

I get that it needn’t be immediately obvious

where’s the genius in a song you have to have explained to you

You sound slightly conflicted on the issue. I guess some people (me included) would need to have some of the analogies explained simply because I'm not broadly educated enough to understand the references without help. But that is true of a huge number of artistic works. Sister Wendy would have been out of a job if we all got all the references in the painting of the revered  great masters without a little help. Please don't think that I am comparing this work favourably to Shakespeare or Rembrandt etc, I'm not convinced it is 'genius' or what the threshold for genius is but just debating the notion generally.

 it just sounds so weird

Excellent. Pop needs more weird.

Wouldn't it be nice, if those who slag it as crap, or just dull, posted something in reply. See this! This is what you call interesting/controversial/breaking new ground! But no, they go back to Brothers In Arms all satisfied with a bit of fancy guitar playing (I imagine) 🙂

rather than sleeping i've been clicking around the internet and found this link....might be useful/interesting to some....

https://genius.com/Childish-gambino-this-is-america-lyrics

hover over the lyrics, it'll turn yellow. click them for cultural references.

i'm now off to click about and follow the links and waste another few hours of my life.