French trains are much cheaper a d more reliable than tbe uk
Finefilly have you ever used them?
Privatised monopoly like railways are always more expensive for poorer service
Watch BBC QT from last night, the tory 'wet blanket' they fielded got trounced, and that was before the results of the byelection defeat that was happening at the same time.
Your regular scheduled reminder that our "privatised" train service mostly ended up owned by other countries. Nationalisation is such an excellent idea that France, Holland, Italy, Japan and others all went past having their own nationalised railway, they nationalised ours too.
Every time I hear someone say that privatisation is more efficient I think, you have so little faith in the UK that you think having the Italians run our trains is more efficient than we could do ourselves.
To be fair the French nationalised railways which run UK train services, for example, are driven solely by the need to make a profit from British consumers (profit which presumably can then be used to subsidise French consumers) so the profit motive is there even if it is a nationalised company.
Furthermore running national rail services is a highly complex operation which is better off being tackled by state owned companies rather than, as we have seen, private companies.
So it is hardly surprising that the majority of railway services in the UK are run by French, Dutch, Belgian, German, and Italian, state owned companies.
Please explain to me how getting the train from London to Manchester is a public good but getting the plane is private?
The investopedia definition doesn't make sense from the perspective of a consumer.
If you don't have funds, niether the train nor the plane is feasible. So surely both are private?
And if the train or plane are full, then you also can't travel. But in both cases the operators reserve high price tickets for those willing to pay. So in both cases use is excluded.
No one has a right to take a train from London to Manchester. Or Tring to Eccles
As a long term user of the rail network in this country, I can assure you that our rail services are a damn sight better today than they were in the early 90s.
The vast majority of those who support renationalisation of our rail service don’t even use it.
I don't think anyone is complaining about the 'quality' of the 'rail services'.
We know they are hamstrung by private franchises.
If you don’t have funds, niether the train nor the plane is feasible. So surely both are private
The UK government has the power of the purse and unlimited access to finances. There is zero need for it be run for profit or worry about the cost to the exchequer.
If the political will existed the whole thing could be state financed.
The restriction is self imposed by the idea that services run better in the market.
(Of course you still have to spend the cash logically. And have the resources and labour force.)
I reckon airline travel will not return to how it was - it seems to be a shoestring industry that relies on business travel to make it work.
Track and trace, PPE, railways, water, GP surgeries, power, academy schools, didn’t you notice the improvements
Don't get me started on water companies. My bill has gone up and up and so where's the competition?
I reckon airline travel will not return to how it was – it seems to be a shoestring industry that relies on business travel to make it work.
Airlines aren't dissimilar to rail.
Fixed timetables, a unionized, 24/7 shift operating, highly skilled (therefore expensive) workforce, a customer fixated on lowest possible price, a high % of fixed costs in product delivery, the inability of operators to defend themselves in a price war(and also hugely vulnerable to market shocks), massive infrastructure costs and the high cost of maintenance and operational compliance means that running the service itself as a profitable venture is incredibly difficult.
Some of it certainly relies on business travel where you can charge insane premiums but rail (and airlines) need to come up with other schemes alongside to keep the money flowing. Airlines are basically banks that happen to fly planes much the same as rail is basically a pension system with trains.
You could argue that airlines, like rail, would be better placed as a cost-recovery utility provided by governments than remain as a failed capitalist profit model.
Public transport should be a public service, it should not be reliant on profit. London buses are a great example, they're very heavily subsidised.
I can assure you that our rail services are a damn sight better today than they were in the early 90s.
As a long time user I would disagree. They are crap now even with the massively higher levels of subsidy and fares thrown at them.
As a long time user I would disagree
So does this article in the FT yesterday:
https://www.ft.com/content/b15a7269-10c5-4ae2-8a29-a576594b7f3c
It was only when the power of these regional barons was broken up that British Rail started to become effective. Three business sectors were created to focus on passengers — InterCity, Network SouthEast and Regional Railways. For the first time, the managers had a free rein to make decisions over all aspects — timetabling, cheap fares, investment in new trains and so on — as long as they stayed within budgets set by British Rail centrally in concert with government.
This model worked so well that Intercity’s long-distance services became highly profitable. Even Network SouthEast broke even, a remarkable achievement for a commuter railway that had to cope with the expense of providing trains for two short peak periods alongside spare capacity at other times.
The key element of this success was the lack of interference from politicians. Managers were able to make commercial decisions without having to ask permission from Whitehall.
How ironic that privatisation should result in government interference.
Rail privatisation was politically driven and had nothing to do with efficiency or customer needs. The rail privatisation legalisation specifically named one company, and one company only, that would not be allowed to tender for the rail franchises, and that was the only company in the UK that actually had any experience in running trains - British Rail.
And yet no restrictions whatsoever were put on foreign state owned companies from tendering for franchises. Rail privatisation is an example of Tory idealogical petty vindictiveness.
They are crap now even with the massively higher levels of subsidy and fares thrown at them.
Funny how when shedloads of money gets thrown at the road network it's "investment".
Give that same money to the railways and it's "subsidy" (or worse still, "bailout").
It goes back to the previous point: why should PUBLIC transport be run as a profit-making enterprise?
Pre-Covid, the TfL model actually wasn't bad (post-Covid, it's been exposed as being incredibly vulnerable to what might loosely be termed Acts of God) able to cross-pollinate the funds from the Tube (which was profitable) to offset the buses (which were not profitable) and still have enough left over for investment, expansion and day-to-day running costs.
Overall, it was not profitable in terms of giving money to shareholders or squirreling it away offshore because it re-invested everything it made but it was still able to pay good wages and run a good service across bus, train and tube.
Funny how when shedloads of money gets thrown at the road network it’s “investment”.
Give that same money to the railways and it’s “subsidy” (or worse still, “bailout”).
To be fair, Network Rail is government owned and all 'profits' are meant to go back into rail infrastructure, even the rail franchises are now pretty much paid services, rather than real businesses, the failings over the last 30 years have slowly been bringing the rail network back in to a public ownership model in all but name, as it's been such a nightmare to everyone involved.
The reality is a tory government won't ever nationalise rail, they fear bringing lots of people into the civil service, they'd rather spend billions to fudge it and pretend it isn't what it is, and what it should be. I think the last labour government also got a bit scared with it due to the absolute massive size, complexity and risk that the railways have.
It would be nice for the country that invented the railway to actually have a decent one!
Funny how when shedloads of money gets thrown at the road network it’s “investment”.
Give that same money to the railways and it’s “subsidy” (or worse still, “bailout”).
The difference being that road users pay taxes in the form of fuel duty and vehicle excise duty that more than cover the cost of roads while railfares don't cover the cost of the railways.
In Scotland fares only cover a third of the cost of the railways.
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/fit-future/detailed-assessment
Roads users pay £35Bn in taxes.
Roads expenditure is £11Bn
Rail users don't pay taxes?
Edit: I think it is fair to assume that the majority of rail users pay car tax, fuel tax, income tax, and Vat.
And that their use of the railways is hugely beneficial to other road users.
The rail worker in the audience was good on question time, some tory idiot said it was absurd that staff can't just walk across from Kings cross to Euston (or was it St Pancras? I don't recall) if there are staff shortages in one particular station.
The rail worker had to point out that they are operated by different private franchises, as a result of tory privatisation, so that would be akin to asking an ASDA worker to do a few hours in a Tesco.
The tory idiot then doubles down and asks how to fix the problem.
I'm paraphasing massivley, but, really....REALLY? lol!
The difference being that road users pay taxes in the form of fuel duty and vehicle excise duty that more than cover the cost of roads
Sure about that? Maybe the cost of building and maintenance, but roads cost a lot more than that.
However much it is, it’s still government funded. So a “subsidy” or “investment and maintenance”? The point still stands about the terms we (and media and politicians) use when talking about our infrastructure.
The tory idiot then doubles down and asks how to fix the problem.
But to be fair another obvious Tory voter in the audience pointed out that the dinosaurs died out because they didn't embrace "new technology".
Which I found particularly interesting as I had been misled into believing that it was a meteorite 65 million years that caused them a problem.
It turns out that "new" technology is in fact 65 million years old.
To be fair it was a strike that killed off the dinosaurs.
Nah, they adapted, took to the skies, and evolved into birds.
You could say that the meteorite strike was the start of a successful revolution.
Privatised monopoly like railways are always more expensive for poorer service
The Italian private railways are a similar price to Trenitalia (the nationalised operator), quite cheap. I'm not sure why that is as I've not looked into it.
I wonder if Tory voter has ever stood 2m away from a train rocketing past at over 100mph? Or trusting that the signaller has blocked the lines when you step on track to do some work?
He should be happy as the railways are still feet, yards,chains and miles
RMT: RMT on Opinium Poll - rmt.
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-on-opinium-poll/
A surprising level of support for the RMT among Financial Times readers. Not necessarily universal, and I don't know if it is my biased, but the pro-RMT comments seem significantly more articulate than the antis.
Financial Times: Rail strikes across Britain: FT readers share their views.
https://www.ft.com/content/5ef70ac9-2505-4c00-910d-f303fdf2662d
It shouldn't be behind the FT paywall.
Edit: I wonder if the government has perhaps seriously miscalculated potential public support for the RMT. To be fair I am quite taken back by some of the FT readers letters, which would not have seemed out of place in the Morning Star.
I wonder if the government has perhaps seriously miscalculated potential public support for the RMT.
I'm going with this one.
Lynch has articulated this in a very clear big picture way. It's a fine line but I think when you put it in the terms he does it's a classic story of almost good v evil, especially when the public are suffering at the hands of the same 'evil.'
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So...
As im taking friday off to go to a wedding really had to come in to do a few things in work
Had to take the kids guinea pigs to my parents to be babysat while we are away so went there this morning (obviously one of the little shits escaped from its carrier en route so wasted 30 mins trying to get it out from under the car seat & it wee'd on one of my shoes!) But that took 30km off my route
So rode the 64km from dunstable to whitechapel, took about 3 hours and was pretty pleasant mostly National Cycle Network, only crap bit was the South Mimms M25 junction
Going to go for a more scenic route on the way back along the canal
Ernie pictured in negotiation with Grant Schapps earlier today...
So are the rumours about govt meddling true? All others seem to be sorted by now; Merseyrail, scotrail, tfw...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62325842
Well labour don't want any meddling
Well labour don’t want any meddling
It's pretty clear that they don't want to support the ordinary working person.
Angela Rayner won’t be happy with that - Sam Tarry is reportedly her other half.
He also joined her on her essential lockdown / business trip to Durham in which Sir Keir enjoyed a korma and a few cheeky pints.
Angela Rayner won’t be happy with that – Sam Tarry is reportedly her other half.
Has anyone told his wife and kids this?
They've just turned down 9.4%. Most others were around 5!
Correction, TfW have turned down 4.5% and Merseyrail accepted 7%
They’ve just turned down 9.4%. Most others were around 5!
Thought 9.4% was the current rate of annual inflation, they'd turned down something like 4% = 4% over 2 years, or something like that, but with changes in conditions?
They’ve just turned down 9.4%. Most others were around 5!
And some Scotrail chap was on about guaranteed overtime on offer. Not working shifts to meet customers demands, just be offered a guaranteed minimum amount of work on overtime rates....
There's some serious bullshitting and mis information going on it seems.
Is it me?
Oh, sorry yea, I read that wrong. 9.4% would be good going I reckon though.
He also joined her on her essential lockdown / business trip to Durham in which Sir Keir enjoyed a korma and a few cheeky pints.
The one that was investigated? Perhaps you could remind us of the outcome?
They’ve just turned down 9.4%. Most others were around 5!
According to the Guardian, the RMT rejected 8% over two years. So 4% per year when inflation is more than double that.
I can't see how the management could offer guaranteed overtime, to be fair. Surely O/T is optional?
My understanding is drivers have the upper hand here as there's not enough to go around.
Well it's not like news providers to misrepresent information to the public, they've never done that before!
Nice to see some modern union reps are wiser to the nasty little traps they set.
The narrative as long as I've been alive has been don't strike. Strikers cast as unreasonable commoners, represented by load-mouthed northern reps with unrealistic/outrageous demands. Interviews with enraged inconvenienced members of the public.
Don't protest. The public aren't on your side and the police will cosh you over the head. Interviews conducted to establish outrage, suggest inconsistency and contradictions in motives as well as discrediting individuals.
Working class people look everyone's taking the piss and getting more than yow. Look scroungers even people in prison are living The Life of Riley. Diversionary BS so the real exploiters, corruption (government, employers, corporations) and piss takers can carry on as normal, while more and more, draconian rules and sanctions are laid on for the people at the bottom.
Labour policies reviewed by out of work musicians, single mothers on benefits to suggest to the rest of the working classes that it's a party representing scroungers.
They have had to be a bit more subtle about it here and there but the basic narrative, do as you're told or else remains.
Shapps on radio4 this morning was shifty as hell, (as usual) definitely get the feel that the government are happy with the conflict- his refusal to be involved in the negotiations was quickly dismantled by Nick Robinson
Chedarchallenged still sulking about the Durham nonsense? Believing what you read in the daily mail is always a route to disappointment
Anyway cycled back up to Watford along the A5(not that pleasant tbh) then along the canal to berkhampstead, over to Ashridge and some nice single-track, photo op at Ivinghoe beacon, then over the Downs into Dunstable
So 1hr there & back drive to my parents
8 1/2hrs of cycling 145km for about 3 hours in work (30 mins of which was spent eating)
