[Closed] the world of Landrover - is life better having owned a Defender?

Why would I mean TATA.....before you point out they fund JLR and tell the management what to do.I have a feeling this decision didn't come from that high up the food chain though more than happy to be told otherwise

Fair one, who knows where the decision is made. However i should imagine that Tata expect JLR to urn a profit, and that is increasingly difficult with the expensive to produce Defender.

cant they upgrade them to bring them inline with the regs?

Who's going to be the first to start panic buying Landies????

lol, 'panic bought' mine years ago! to be fair, its already happening, 15-20 year old 90s in any sort of servicable condition have actually risen by £1000 or more in value over the last few years...

Just saw topgear from the other day - all those ex military land rover up for sale!

The Wolf spec defender came with the tdi engine plus some other toys and are appearing on the market. Just looked and they ain't cheap!

Having used Landy's for years at work I can safely say that the latest ones (Tata built?) are shit in comparison to the older TD5 / TD6 engined versions. Out of the four bought in the last 2-3 years we went through at least 6 gear boxes, and more clutches that I could count. The turbos have gone on at least 2 of them. Admittedly they are used for heavy towing and off road work. But then that's what they are designed for. Ok they may have all mod cons up front light elcey windows and A/c but as for a working vehicle that are not a patch on the older TD5/6's.

TD5/6 110 for anything off road. Noisy and uncomfortable on the motorway for long journeys, but then its not designed for that.

If you want a workhorse buy a defender, you want comfort buy a Disco or a car.

could TATA not have invested a ridiculous amount of money in the bloody silly supercar they are now paying williams to develop. Afterall as a supposed paragon of automotive excellence surely they could bring some of that to the table and get rid of some of the cost in the landy and bring it up to date using their brilliant manufacturing expertise ....suppose theres less farmers now than posh spice wannabe's who can get finance

surely they could bring some of that to the table and get rid of some of the cost in the landy and bring it up to date

Sadly not - the problems that they face are deep in the DNA of the Defender.

1. As every panel is bolted together by hand they are very expensive to build and therefore sell in comparison to similar ( well, lesser ) vehicles. The fact that they are bolted together gives them their longevity and adaptability - making them easy to fix with minimal tools and almost infinitely adaptable.

2. The Ladder chasis gives them strength and means that they have an average service life of something like 25 years. It is also the one of the reasons that the Defender will not meet up and coming safety standards.

I'm planning a [s]visit[/s] [b]pilgrimage[/b] to Solihull in September to see the Defender production line - I want to watch Brummies bash Defenders into shape whilst I still can.

Here's my view after owning 2 110s

Land Rovers are ace

Land Rovers are also not very good

I love mine to bits and it can make me happy just driving it 20 yards

20 Yards is about as far as I'm happy to go in it

I'll be very sad when I sell it and buy a Eurobox Focus

I may never sell it

I'll be very happy if I ever get round to driving it to Africa

I'm happy if I can just find a car park without height restrictions. (not as easy as you think)

I need to put new seals on the bulkhead vents

I can put very muddy mountain bikes inside it complete lock it up and go for a coffee without worrying

I am very glad I've owned 2 110s both have been full of character and anything that has 'character' has faults

Sometimes I think it's down to what sort of person you are. I've never wanted to or even thought about living in a new house. I like old houses. My first house was built in the 1600s it had 'character' and very low ceilings and was cold. I loved it.

Are you a Barrat House or Old country Cottage type of person?

Ah, another Land Rover thread on STW 😀

I've had Land Rovers for about 30 years. I've towed caravans behind a 1955 Series 1 all over Britain and Europe, I've trialled them, I've raced them. I've had Series 1, IIA, III, Range Rover, 90, Defender 90, and Freelanders. I've built cut down Range Rover chasses with Series Land Rover Bodywork, I've rolled a few, I've never worked out mpg, I've often wondered why people used to spend £5000+ putting diesel engines into Range Rovers to save on fuel costs!

But, to sum it up - I ride a rigid single speed. If you're happy to ride rigid ss then you'll probaly be OK with a Land Rover 8)

If anyone has a case for getting grants to help develop a product for export then surely it is Land Rover. They must be one of our best exports of all time.

Just wanted to say a big thank-you to the contributors to this thread. 😀

I am looking at getting a defender in the very near future, and this thread has been a great insight into living with them. Hopefully about 5-6k should get me a relatively tidy 300tdi?!?

I currently drive a (don't laugh) Smart forTwo, so I am well used to a rattly ride with plenty of noise etc. Amazingly I can fit my bike in by only removing the front wheel, but it is a faff.

My only question now is will I get my Orange Five (small) into the back of a 90fully constructed? I have seen a few people saying that they can get a bike in diagonally, so I am kinda' pinning my hopes on that as I definitely don't want a 110. I guess I'll have to take the bike to viewings!

Right then! Time to get out and kick a few tires with my new found knowledge...

I love land Rovers, always have, and in the dim distant past owned a 109 Series III station wagon. Practicality and horrific fuel consumption (18mpg was the best I got on a 2.25 petrol engine) meant that it eventually had to go.

Since then I've had all sorts of cars, but happiest with my Disco 3 which I currently run. 30mpg (just), goes anywhere, carries up to 1 tonne, 7 seats, relatively quiet.

Unless I lived on a farm or was constantly off-road, I'd have a Defender as a toy, never as a main car.

Impressive....

Yes my life has improved immeasurably since owning a defender. I now have a beautiful wife and all my children are good looking. I own a cottage in the country with a fire that never goes out and my cupboards are always full of clean pressed clothes.

Get one.

ukmranger you cannot get a full built bike in the back of an '87 90

5-6k is only just pushing you into scrappy 90 300tdi money - more likely to get a high milage tidy 200tdi for that money.

as above - defender would be no fun for an only car if you are driving any distance....

i do love my 90 though !

you cannot get a full built bike in the back of a 90

+1

No chance. Two will go in with wheels off, upside down, length ways across load bay.

Defenders are the cars I enjoy driving above any other. They have a very unique way of being both absolutely dreadful and absolutely wonderful at the same time.

And don't worry about getting a soaked right knee the first time you turn or brake each winter morning. You soon learn precisely when to automatically moving your leg out of the way of the cascade. In any other car you'd be horrified at such a thing. In a Landy it's fine.

The most important bit of advice, I think, is to not get too attached because it will get stolen. It WILL get stolen. So read up on the Landy forums and find out what the best measures are to lessen the chances of this. Because I can't state enough just how much it will get stolen.

Mine doesnt leak on me inside at all ! Dum dum and silicone on the roof joints and new bulkhead vents seals and insulated above the roof liner !

Is life better after having a landrover? Not for the polar bears, no.

No worse than a pious really all things considered !

One of my riding buddies has a new (59 plate I think) one.

While its a laugh and useful, couldn't imagine one for a daily drive - tbh if you want a LR you might as well spend your £5-6k on a Freelander.

It will happily go anywhere the Defender would, and be a damn site comfier plus happy on a m-way. And my wife's TD4 auto manages 30mpg with even her driving.

ukmranger you cannot get a full built bike in the back of an '87 90

5-6k is only just pushing you into scrappy 90 300tdi money - more likely to get a high milage tidy 200tdi for that money.

Oh, and £9-10k will get you a top-spec 05/55 Disco 3 (high miles, but mine's on 135k with no issues), which is fantastic value. Fit 3 sull-sized bikes in the back if you drop the rear seats.

No worse than a pious really all things considered !

Apparnetly owning a Landy also makes you a gullible idiot who believes nonsense reported in the press cos it suits them.

And JLR have announced today 1000 new jobs at Solihull to keep pace with renewed demand in the Middle East and an increase of sales in USA.

I can get my hardtail fully built diagonally in rear of a Defender Ninety but it's a bit of a faff. FS bike verl unlikey though.

where are you in the country?

im in west yorkshire, and know a few people with defender 90's and 110's who have had bonnets, wing mirrors and other componants/parts stolen when it was parked on their drives.

these happened in quite rural areas too, so are planned robberies.

just something to be cautious of!

I own an old Defender 90 (as you might be able to guess from my user name). It's used off-road regulary (we live off-road) and for farming duties.

If you really *need* one, then you'd probably be better off getting a L200 or a Toyota; these are gradually replacing the Defender as the farmer's vehicle of choice.

If you *want* one, then go for it; basically it's the biggest Meccano set you've ever had in your life. But you need to be realistic about it.

It won't be cheap - old Defenders hold their price amazingly well.
It won't be comfortable - they're very small inside and pretty basic and driving any distance on tarmac will leave you cold, shaken and deaf.
It will need regular tweaking - you'll need a basic toolkit, e.g. angle grinder, MIG welder, hammer, large hammer, very large hammer. Spares are easily available though, fairly cheap and easy to fit.
It won't automatically go anywhere - you'll need to learn how to drive it properly. Quite a few Landy off-roaders get to join the upside down club.

On the plus side, it's just the greatest fun vehicle in the history of automobiles.

You'll either love it or hate it, and there's only one way to find out.

mmmmm youll get about 1 mile out of those lithium batterys in 25 years time im sure

i like the idea of prius(well the CRZ actually as they are lovely looking cars) but im not convinced by the "green" ness of them ... and for that reason im out ....

rusty 90s nailed it on the head though.

so the real life experience of the non bias owner is they actually arnt that great!?

Ive only ever been a passenger in one, a memorable experience is the best way of putting it, get a nice estate instead

Apparnetly owning a [s]Landy[/s] Pious also makes you a gullible idiot who believes nonsense reported in the press cos it suits them.

It also seems to make you illiterate....

mmmmm youll get about 1 mile out of those lithium batterys in 25 years time im sure

A bet you'd lose based on not knowing as much as Toyota's engineers.

a) the battery is NiMH
b) they only drive you for a mile or so anyway - their purpose is to store excess energy and augment the petrol engine not to power the car at speed.
c) they are carefully managed - only going between 40% and 80% charge, which means they last as long as the car does
d) lots of cars are doing 200k or even 300k on the original batteries. There are faults in individual cells sometimes as in any electrical component, but the individual cells can be replaced and there are more than enough cells left over from crashed cars to repair the high mileage ones.

Unsurprisingly, Toyota and Honda engineers are many steps ahead of Joe Public when it comes to hybrid car design.

It also seems to make you illiterate....

I'm sorry, what?

It also seems to make you illiterate....

I'm sorry, what?

[i]Apparnetly[/i] seems to be the offending item 😳

Just couldn't be without my 110 CSW. Spends most of its life with 2 out of 12 seats fitted and full of firewood. Just got a months worth this morning.
They are like fixed wheel, fully rigid 29ers with Jones bars. If you don't do that then you will never comprehend why others do.
Older stuff will need frequent spanner attention but it will be cheap. A friends Landcruiser, so superior I am told is likely to fail an MOT becuase of the ABS electrics issues. The 4 digit price to fix it is not worth it. You could buy a MOTed series Landy for that. Landy's mend often and cheapr.

I'm on the lookout for a Landrover too, i did want a tipper as a business vehicle but may end up with a 110 or 90 hardtop, as the prices are crazy.

I need one now...

Jings, every landy thread on here goes the same way doesn't it.

Yes, they're unreliable and thirsty (well, the proper ones are). Still ace though. Unfortunately a bit like bikes, the n+1 rule applies -just acquired no. 4 at the weekend. Logic suggests this is a much worse plan than having 1 brand new sensible car, but where's the fun in that?

you seem focused on milage molgrips .... milage is not the be all and end all ... 300k - i might do that in 15 years - time does more damage to cars than milage !

You MOT'd the 90 yet trail_rat?

Also agree on the mileage thing - rust kills landys, not mileage.

you seem focused on milage molgrips .... milage is not the be all and end all ... 300k - i might do that in 15 years - time does more damage to cars than milage !

Time damages some stuff, mileage damages other things.

Ultra high mileage cars might have knackered gearboxes or engines, really old ones can have knackered interiors and bodies.

Is life better after having a landrover? Not for the polar bears, no.

Actually, there's a very strong argument that vehicles like 90s and 110s are actually about as green as you can get, despite having higher emissions whilst actually running. 'dust to dust' analysis looking at environmental impact of a vehicle from its conception to its complete scrappage means that the very long life span of the average landrover when compared to the average car and the relatively low amounts of plastic non recyclable materials involved in its construction all add up to impressive green credentials.

It's not inefficient cars that is massively wasteful, it's the massive desire of most people to alway have the next new car that is. Replacing a car on a 3-4 yearly basis because you want a shinier one and you are killing the planet, not me in my ratty old (already about 75% recycled once) landy. So don't change your car, fix it!

Also, it's far harder work to drive than a modern car, so encourages me to get on the bike more...

Actually, there's a very [s]strong argument[/s] biased and flawed report paid for by oil companies that says that that vehicles like 90s and 110s are actually about as green as you can get

FTFY.

The long lifespan is only a positive when compared with the same number of miles done in any other car. Its our lifestyles that dictates how far we drive, so you have to compare 200k miles done in a Landy to 200k miles done in anything else. I think that it would come out second best against some economical Japanese motor purely on fuel, never mind the amount of parts that need replacing. They all have to be manufactured too.

Plus, most of these old Landies seem to be run as fun cars AS WELL as some other daily driver. Therefore the carbon footprint of maintaining and driving [i]for fun[/i] these cars is ON TOP of the footprint of your daily driver.

If you want to keep a car for 30 years and throw money at it, that's perfectly possible for any classic car, not just Landies. Many other classics are more economical than Landies too.

So I don't think that argument stacks up at all.

[i]So I don't think that argument stacks up at all. [/i]

I think you're wrong - as owning a Defender puts you off driving far, therefore you are 'greener'...

There used to be a statistic threw about, that 50% of all defenders ever built were still knocking about.Name me any other car where that is the case........

br - that is a very plausible scenario 🙂

emac65 - that's no good if they are not the only car you own - see my post.

Thats rubbish mate....Early ones were all used off road,so they were harsh miles.It's only in recent years they've become a fashion item,name me any other car that could do it all off road as well.They are also one of the easiest cars to work on,bits are easy to replace....

I dunno if they are a fashion item or not but they've been an enthusiast item for ages. How many people use them all the time instead of a normal car, and how many people have them as a hobby?

not yet kenneth - not been in the uk for more than a 8 days since june ...... Houses deposits dont appear by them selves unfortunantly.

reluctant to mot it tbh till ive got my house sorted but i know i will need it to get anywhere from th house again this winter if i dont do it !

you like to read about facts and figures molgrips..... stateside study but prius doesnt really come out all that good all over.... 29.7 MPG when used as a real car and not just going round town - thats only 1.7mpg more than my 90 ....as well as being 169% of the purchase price in repairs on average and having a shorter predicted life span (industry average of 135%)

[url] http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf [/url]

But feel free to continue to bang your drum if you wish - ill continue to drive my 90 through the winter as your prius has NO chance of getting to my house