[Closed] the wonderful world of private healthcare US style

The more I learn about their system the more shocked I am. It's a disgrace in a rich country imo.

i always remember an American uni colleague describing the NHS as socialist health care.
I dont understand why anyone would not want free access to health care for all citizens tbh but they are quite anti this IM limited E

I too don't understand the argument of NHS = bad and US Healthcare = good.
Crazy way of treating your citizens.

Ask Dan The Man HanNAN! He likes to sit on US chat shows, extolling their system and rubbishing ours.

I dread to think what the cost for my treatment would have been in the US, 5 weeks intensive care won't be cheap, Aren't medical bills the biggest cause for personal bankruptcy in the US?

Junkyard - Member
i always remember an American uni colleague describing the NHS as socialist health care.

There seems to be a section of American society that refers to any level of government assistance as socialist, or more frequently communism. I'm not sure if this is due to ignorance as to what socialism or communism is or if it's to scare people away from it because of the thought that anything from communism must be bad no matter what.

what amazed me was the right-wing shitkickers, out in iowa or some such shit-hole, voting against medical reform.

A more blatant example of Turkeys voting for Christmas, its difficult to imagine.

But, hey, better to die an honest democratic death through lack of medical facilities, than live in a goddamn socialist state.!!!!

spent 3months at a summer camp in the usa working with kids mostly on welfare from inner city boston
mass is a rich state and their healthcare apparently better than most
but i was gobsmacked by their poor access to basic medicine; ear infections that stank like you wouldnt believed, ringworm, random stuff that antibiotics would clear up in no time not to mention more serious stuff
i know that things can be grim in this country- ive worked with kids in harringey -but the richest country in the world is only that if youre one of the haves

Better get aquainted - it's where we are heading.

Try visiting www.greylabyrinth.com and asking a few of those questions. try the [url= http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=7c72ac1d82020b3082cb340f02035fdd ]off topic[/url] section

It's not so much the idea of universal free healthcare that our US cousins object to, It's the idea of paying for the healthcare of someone who makes no effort to pay for their own. It's not so far from the opinions of some of the folks on here.

I spend a fair amount of time over on Fark.com, and the forum on their politics tab is, quite frankly, terrifying. There is a stalwart of Republican people in America that flat out despise the reforms that Obama made to the US healthcare system. I imagine them literally fading in and out of consciousness at their keyboards through sheer rage, as they bash out some half-baked opinion about why The Government providing a basic level of healthcare to everyone in their society is a very bad, very socialist, very un-American thing. I mean, the current leading Republican candidate for the Presidential race seems to be basing his entire campaign on reversing every single one of the laws and reforms Obama has brought in. On his first day in office 😯

Spent 3 years in USA. It's two countries that happen to share a land mass like some sort of patchwork quilt. One of the countries is first world, the other third, and they butt right up against each other. Very unsettling. One of the best things about coming back was the civilisation of things like the NHS (and I had tip-top insurance over there). It's a wonderful country in so many ways, but also messed up so badly at the same time.

Cheap bikes, though.

TheBrick - Member
There seems to be a section of American society that refers to any level of government assistance as socialist, or more frequently communism. I'm not sure if this is due to ignorance as to what socialism or communism is or if it's to scare people away from it because of the thought that anything from communism must be bad no matter what.

That pretty much sums it up. I work for an American company & deal a fair bit with my peers in the US.

The well travelled & outward looking ones envy our NHS (to the degree that 2 made a point of being overjoyed in coming over here with pregnant wives to get better & cheap health care/delivery.

Some others thought that if their children were born in NHS hospitals that they would be branded Communists!

There seems to be a section of American society that refers to any level of government assistance as socialist, or more frequently communism. I'm not sure if this is due to ignorance as to what socialism or communism is or if it's to scare people away from it because of the thought that anything from communism must be bad no matter what.

Yep!

I've had arguments with Americans who seem to use the words "socialist" or "communist" as the ultimate argument settler to which there is no reply. It is "socialist" therefore it is fundamentally wrong, evil, un-American and against nature/God.

Quite strange really.

It's often amusing to try to catch such people out in a swirl of hypocritical logic though. 😀

I've also noticed they seem to use "communist" to mean the opposite of "democracy" rather than the opposite of "capitalism" 😕

i hope the guy will be ok (now he's getting treatment for his illnesses).i feel very fortunate to live in the uk (where healthcare is free,well at present.)

where healthcare is free,well at present

See, it's not free though is it, you are paying for it through taxes in fact the only folks not paying for it are the Social security layabouts, but it's not free for them either, you're paying for their healthcare, some folks don't like that.

i hope the guy will be ok (now he's getting treatment for his illnesses).i feel very fortunate to live in the uk (where healthcare is free,well at present.)

In the US it's 'free' as well, just instead of paying taxes, they pay an insurance premium, much as we do. Except they don't need to pay for the folks not paying into the scheme as well, so overall, the win!

but it's not free for them either, you're paying for their healthcare, some folks don't like that.

It's not free.

The key phrase is [i]"free at the point of use"[/i].

Junkyard, not quite sure what you mean.

Charlie - I assume you're trolling, but did you read the link above? Working man loses his job and health insurance and gets badly ill. No win there, I'm afraid 😕

do folk too poor to pay for their own healthcare still maintain it is their responsibility to pay for it and fair enough that they have no access to healthcare.
OR
Is it just people who can afford their own who support the system that you need to pay to get it?
I just wondered how universal the view was tbh.

Charlie - I assume you're trolling, but did you read the link above?

Not trolling, we were talking about how some Americans seem to think the NHS is a mugs games, i was just outlining some of their arguments.

Charlie - I assume you're trolling, but did you read the link above? Working man loses his job and health insurance and gets badly ill. No win there, I'm afraid

Or the bit kimbers posted about the poor kids at summer school - difficult to argue they deserve not to get basic healthcare. Unless you're a **** of course.

CharlieMungus - Member
Junkyard, not quite sure what you mean.
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

I assume he meant, do those that can't afford health insurance think someone else should be picking up the tab for them

do folk too poor to pay for their own healthcare still maintain it is their responsibility to pay for it and fair enough that they have no access to healthcare.

Is it just people who can afford their own who support the system that you need to pay to get it?
I just wondered how universal the view was tbh.

I don't know, the only folks i've tried to explore this with are those with jobs. They would probably argue that those who don't pay into the system don't get to chose who it serves

i would not word it like that BB but yes it will do as a right wing version of my question 😉
I wondered if the country was so freedom loving/personal responsibility/small state that even those who lost out thought it was right.

do folk too poor to pay for their own healthcare still maintain it is their responsibility to pay for it and fair enough that they have no access to healthcare.

As someone said above, lots of poor rightwingers were vehemently against Obama's health care plan, even though it would have given them health care which they were previously denied.

But that's because they've been brainwashed.

As someone said above, lots of poor rightwingers were vehemently against Obama's health care plan, even though it would have given them health care which they were previously denied.

But that's because they've been brainwashed.

I think it's all part of the piece in right-wing libertarian terms, part of the distrust of government interference. But really if you want to discuss it in detail, the guys on the earlier link will give yo a very intelligent argument against.

CharlieMungus - Member

Charlie - I assume you're trolling, but did you read the link above?

Not trolling, we were talking about how some Americans seem to think the NHS is a mugs games, i was just outlining some of their arguments.

Sorry - I have this aggravating personality trait which means I tend to take people at face value 🙂 And actually, I actually do believe you believe what you've written. Not my job to change your mind and hopefully the recent US reforms mean that there are less people thinking the way you describe....

I actually do believe you believe what you've written

It's not aggravating, just a bit dim

Thanks very much 🙂 And may I take this opportunity to apologise again for thinking the best of a stranger.

😆

Not going to make any comments either way, other than to say the American right's argument against is laid out pretty well here, and hasn't really changed since then

we were talking about how some Americans seem to think the NHS is a mugs games

And yet they are very much the mugs in this game. They spend 16% of their GDP on healthcare, we on the other hand spend 9% of our GDP on healthcare - and, we treat everyone.

If they had an NHS their healthcare bill would be considerably smaller.

I know, but i think they claim that they don't have to wait months for routine surgery

For some crazy but well supported ideas on all kinds of stuff, read here

http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=13578

ernie_lynch - Member

They spend 16% of their GDP on healthcare, we on the other hand spend 9% of our GDP on healthcare

I've just discovered that according to a US congressional report, healthcare is projected to reach 49% of GDP in the US by 2082, and 25% of GDP in just 14 years time.

Quote :

[i]Total spending on health care would rise from
16 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2007
to 25 percent in 2025, 37 percent in 2050, and
49 percent in 2082.[/i]

Point taken Charlie - the NHS is far from perfect - barely adequate sometimes (my own gran died whilst waiting for surgery which we all knew was never going to happen) - but it doesn't leave those born into the most deprived socio-economic groups high and dry.

Yes, if you're well off and can afford the premiums, you get a top quality service. If you're not, you get sweet FA - I wouldn't be comfortable with the whole "I'm alright Jack" thing, and bogger the rest of you.

ooh I bagged Junkyard on there as well
You on there CM?
I think CM is articulating a position here but not necessarily his own ...for a change 😉 ..no point attacking him for educating me/us.

I know, but i think they claim that they don't have to wait months for routine surgery

People with no healthcare have to wait forever for routine surgery. And if you want to you are perfectly free to pay for private healthcare over here so it's the best of both worlds.

I don't agree with this view at all, but even if you make the argument that jobless people are undeserving of health cover, what about their kids?

Edit: arghh as Junkyard has pointed out, CM is just trolling again. Oh sorry I mean playing Devil's Advocate, which is completely different. 😉

I'm really not trolling, the question was ho can folks think this is ok, i'm just trying to articualte their position. However, I've tried arguing with those guys, they most are really really smart and they know their stuff. I couldn't stand it! It's why i came here

People with no healthcare have to wait forever for routine surgery. And if you want to you are perfectly free to pay for private healthcare over here so it's the best of both worlds.

Sure but then you are paying for 2 systems, one of which you don't use. Now if you still think it is entirely reasonable to support those in greater need, that's an admirable intention but surely it would be better if you got to choose the beneficiaries more accurately rather than putting it into a pot and letting Cameron and his friends choose.