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This current crop of scheming, cynical, uncaring, manipulative, lying, self-serving, shits represents the most morally-corrupt, hideous excuse for a government I have ever known. I have lived in Canada, the West Indies, and the UK, and spent considerable time in a handful of other countries including the USA, and I could never even have conceived of a more grotesque caricature of a Western government.
Only Trump is giving this horrible, horrible lot a run for its money.
True, indisputable fact.
The Tories
Are not really the Tories of five years ago let alone earlier.
They are now a right wing populist rabble enabling a one-time smash and grab against the very people that voted for them (as well as every other poor sod who didn't).
If we ever get this country back on its feet it is the kind of thing that will deserve a TRC type process.
When I was a kid, Thatcher destroyed my local economy and it's never come close to recovering. It's been a post industrial, poverty stricken shithole for over 30 years.
At least she...
a. had an idealogical reason for doing it
b. understood what it was she was doing
c. could reasonably foresee the consequences.
This lot aren't even competent enough to know how bad they are, and if they did, wouldn't give a shit anyway.
That's a thousand times worse.
Yup it's nothing less than the erosion of western liberal democracy happening before our eyes, with the UK and US at the vanguard. Our democratic systems are no longer fit for purpose and they are exploiting that shamelessly.
I've strongly disliked/disagreed with governments/PMs before but this is something completely new.
The word <b>Tory</b> derives from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe; modern Irish tóraí; modern Scottish Gaelic Tòraidh: outlaw, robber or brigand
says it all
it's an "I all right jack government" for an "I'm all right jack country". most people couldn't give shit, you seen the polls ?
This is the only brexit dividend- an 80 seat majority for Johnson
They can be as corrupt & incompetent as they like but all they have to do is stir up some culture war/ populist issues & they'll keep getting their majorities
Once Scotland's left the UK can't see how we won't have them elected for ever more
The only way we can ever achieve utopia is to start from dystopia. If we don't have a dystopia, there's no motivation to improve things.
This lot are driving us towards that starting point faster than anyone could ever have imagined.
At least we don't have Corbyn! etc.
I don't think they will win the next election, after the shit has hit the fan.
What makes you think we'll still have democratic elections with a free vote in 4 years time?
The only way we can ever achieve utopia is to start from dystopia. If we don’t have a dystopia, there’s no motivation to improve things.
There’s no utopia. Even increasingly dystopian futures will be more normalised now real-life social and community networks of the past are largely forgotten. The internet has changed everything.
I don’t think they will win the next election, after the shit has hit the fan.
They just need someone else to blame for the problems. It’ll be all the (non European) immigrants, or remainers not pulling their weight by then. Assuming COVID is done with, but they’ll still be milking it.
More of the same, just ever incrementally worse basically.
As above, those currently in government are using the Tory party as a vessel to get into power (some without even being a member of the party). Ideology barely even registers, as long as they are getting rich/more powerful
I don’t think they will win the next election, after the shit has hit the fan
Unfortunately I think they will.
The shit as already hit the fan and they're pulling ahead in 3 major polls.
https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/1291358599114104832?s=19
People who vote for Tories a) don't really care about the downsides as long as it doesn't impact them directly b) and if it does - focus their anger wherever the newspapers tell them.
At least we don’t have Corbyn! etc.
Yeah, wrong response that.
Whilst I don't disagree, this is the third "corrupt government" thread running on the front page currently and about the 87th generally so I'm going to close this. Sorry. Use one of the others.
Scratch that, I’ve changed my mind. Because I URL-walked to this ➡ thread from pre-tory rule a decade ago and it’s pretty fascinating reading.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-tories
You're not wrong! Can't believe we thought the Tories would be better than Brown!
molgrips
MemberI don’t think they will win the next election, after the shit has hit the fan.
I think the shit may have hit the fan
I don't see the Tory party losing the next election im afraid.
They can scapegoat the huge negatives to come onto a "malicious" EU/ Covid/ the disabled/ unemployed/ brown people for many, many years to come.
It's only recently they sort of stopped blaming the last Labour government for all our woes and how long ago was that!
I think the shit may have hit the fan
It hasn't even started.. just wait!
it’s an “I all right jack government” for an “I’m all right jack country”. most people couldn’t give shit, you seen the polls ?
Yes but I think there's been a (tactical?) erosion of political discourse over the last 5 years or so, helped along in no small part by everyone's favourite referendum.
People don't really want to discuss what is best for the country as a whole, they want to shout at each other about what they feel is best for them personally and keep shouting till the other person has stopped bothering and they've "Won".
That flavour of "debate" drives reasonable people away from wanting to engage with politics and if you can steer the rage monsters towards your stance on a given topic you probably get to force your ideas through.
That is pretty much Dominic Cummings' Legacy, changing politics from reasoned debate into this:
I posted a "Why do people vote Tories" thread a while ago and it was quite interesting. But what's going to change over the next few years?
1. A lot of Tory voters will be dead come the next election, not just from C19, but from old age.
2. There's surely going to be a lot of discontent about the ruin of Brexit, but without an effective media, will it make any difference at the ballot box?
3. Print media and the 2-3 million readership it can manipulate will be significantly weakened (again, see first point).
4. Murdoch might be dead by then (see point 3 and 1), but propaganda is his family business and that's not going anywhere.
5. The online strategy of targeted propaganda used to persuade enough idiots to vote for Johnson/Brexit will be even better financed and integrated into government. This largely supplants the importance of the print media.
For anyone with half a brain and some sort of decency, these really are dire times - or maybe it was always like this, but now we've finally got the 'transparency' Cameron promised us.
To further, it won’t be the political ads you see that should worry you, it’s the ones you don’t. If you don’t see an advert saying that Starmer/the Labour Party does XYZ ridiculously untrue things you can’t complain and have it removed from sight of people that will believe it... that’s where the success has been the last few years.
I never saw a lot of the bollocks about brexit on social media, but why would I, my FB stated that I’ve been to university (one of the main groups that was predicted to, and did, vote remain), so why target someone who is very unlikely to be swayed/will call out your bullshit lies.
don’t think they will win the next election
I remember people saying that whoever won the election after the 2008 crash would be unelectable for a generation. But the Tories have won four elections on the bounce (including the coalition), and for all the "anyone but Corbyn would be 20 points ahead" talk, they're still ahead now, despite 60,000(+?) COVID deaths, illegal deportations, what smells an awful lot like corruption, general incompetence and nothing to show from the B****t negotiations.
The Tory diehards on here have gone a little quiet recently.
I hope it's shame, but I suspect they just don't have the capability to feel that particular emotion.
Empathy and decency have been demonised under the Torys for years.
Honesty has now gone the same way. It's now a sign of political and social weakness.
Dishonesty is something to aspire to.
My hatred and contempt for them increases day by day.
They have no regard for the lives of those less fortunate than themselves.
Why should I put any value on their lives?
I don't want to feel this way, but frankly, they have left no alternative.
"Boris Johnson defends refusal to suspend Tory MP accused of rape"
I mean seriously, imagine the uproar was a pro-Corbyn MP accused of a violent rape and Corbyn refused to suspend him.
I’ve strongly disliked/disagreed with governments/PMs before but this is something completely new.
It's not completely novel, it is just that it has been about 80-90 years since we last had this type of thing happen in Europe.
Not that the current lot are ideological enough about anything other than lining their own (and their mates) pockets. It is what they leave behind after their heist that worries me. The nasty prejudices and intolerance they stirred up to get their opportunity are out of the bottle now.
Not that they give a shit, of course. None of the current top tories will be in politics in five years. They'll have all got their payouts from the outsourcing spivs and developer spivs and promptly offshored the lot. I'll wager <50% of the current 'top' tories will even be domiciled in the UK in 5-10 years. And 'we' ****ing voted for it.
Urgh.
When Thatcher is being held up as a model of Toryism compared with the current populist profiteers you know how much has changed. I was in Poland recently, they've gone from a communist command economy with a puppet leader in the Thatcher years to someone who makes Thatcher look socialist and humanist.
Another thing Thatcher did well that is beyond the curent bunch, negotiating with Europe. 😉
I don’t think they will win the next election, after the shit has hit the fan.
I think you underestimate how unutterably stupid your average British peasant actually is.
I’m not a Tory voter, but what is it they are doing so bad, that labour would do so well?
I’m not a Tory voter, but what is it they are doing so bad, that labour would do so well?
Fund the NHS. Or any public services, for that matter.
FunkyDunc
Member
I’m not a Tory voter, but what is it they are doing so bad, that labour would do so well?
Where shall we start
I’m not a Tory voter, but what is it they are doing so bad, that labour would do so well?
Lockdown was delayed because Johnson/Cummings libertarian & economic leanings+ a healthy dose of British exceptionalism thought we didn't need to
Was a grave error that coat 1000s of lives.
On the plus side they've pretty much renationalised the railways and introduced a UBI !
Paying their mates hundreds of millions for PPE that when delivered was sub standard?
I’m not a Tory voter, but what is it they are doing so bad, that labour would do so well?
Lockdown was delayed because Johnson/Cummings libertarian & economic leanings+ a healthy dose of British exceptionalism thought we didn't need to
Was a grave error that coat 1000s of lives.
Their hard Brexit is a generational car crash, corruption seems endemic from housing to PPE, can't say if labour would've been better, but seriously doubt it could've been worse!
On the plus side they've pretty much renationalised the railways and introduced a UBI !
It's been said before, but it's really starting to feel like the last 90 years (in 'the west' at least) were a blip, a failed experiment in moderation, concensus, cooperation and democracy. I worry that the next 15 to 20 years are going to make the 1930s and 40s look like a golden era...
Right, I'm off to order one of those 'Make Orwell Fiction Again' t-shirt...
So all the justifications above are benefits of hindsight and circumstance. Really can’t see how labour policy would be any different.
What labour neds to do is convince enough people that it will redistribute welath within society in their favour. Most Tory voters vote Tory because they believe they are voting in their own interests, even if they aren't. It's the selfish I'm alright Jack vote, the others are lazy ****s and don't deserve my help, bleedin' scroungers. When in fact the wealth they create is being skimmed off by already wealthy individuals and corporations and declared/reinvested in low tax countries when it isn't stashed away in tax havens.
I think you underestimate how unutterably stupid your average British peasant actually is.
I’m not a Tory voter, but what is it they are doing so bad, that labour would do so well?
quod erat demonstrandum
So all the justifications above are benefits of hindsight and circumstance. Really can’t see how labour policy would be any different.
Eh?
We know that Cummings Johnson delayed lockdown against advice, based on herd immunity strategy Cummings was pushing
Johnson's own words
Global growth is itself anaemic and the decline in global poverty is beginning to slow,” he said. “And in that context, we are starting to hear some bizarre autarkic rhetoric, when barriers are going up, and when there is a risk that new diseases such as Coronavirus will trigger a panic and a desire for market segregation that go beyond what is medically rational to the point of doing real and unnecessary economic damage, then at that moment humanity needs some government somewhere that is willing at least to make the case powerfully for freedom of exchange.”
He went on to suggest that the UK would be the country “ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion”.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-in-greenwich-3-february-2020
On PPE, testing, track & trace, free school meals for kids,the government had to be shamed into action.
And it wasn't hindsight, by early march many were asking why the government weren't taking pandemic as seriously as other European countries
Jenrick was caught taking bribes in a planning scandal, with no repurcussions. And now has a radical overhaul of planning that takes power from locals & gifts it to developers
Similarly hindsight tells us that Lansley reforms, Graylings disastrous reform of justice, Universal Credit.... We're all disasters waiting to happen, but at the time people were warning it was madness, that's wasn't hindsight
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-vote-down-legal-22388946
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18339251.watch-tory-mps-cheer-blocking-pay-rise-nhs-nurses/
Yet the bellends clapped
https://goodlawproject.org/case/money-for-dominic-cummings-mates/
https://goodlawproject.org/news/children-go-hungry-this-summer/
U-turn after publicity
https://goodlawproject.org/case/procurement-case/
Corruption
Rees-Mogg being Rees Mogg
And lest not forget the Lord **** and his jolly jaunt to Durham
There is much, much more but I am getting bored and angry
So all the justifications above are benefits of hindsight and circumstance. Really can’t see how labour policy would be any different.
You don’t think labour would put more into public services than tories, who have been privatising anything they can get their hands on for decades?
With the benefit of hindsight they shouldn't have given massive PPE deals to their mates whose companies had no experience in PPE?
That thread from 10 years ago that Cougar linked is interesting reading. All the things that have happened that we didn't have a clue about, finishing with some Brexit prescience. And the original TJ.
Haha just read that thread greybeard
If I traveled forward in time to today after writing this...
kimbers
Subscriber
but do the torries have the balls to hold a referendum on eu membership?Posted 10 years ago
..... I'd be all Charlton Heston
That thread from 10 years ago that Cougar linked is interesting reading. All the things that have happened that we didn’t have a clue about, finishing with some Brexit prescience. And the original TJ.
I found it more hilarious that Junkyard wanted someone to give a straight answer to a question.
But it's funny, in between the usual predictable slaps and hair pulling it's the same arguments. Aside from a few details you could change the names and nobody would be able to tell if it was 10 years or 10 days ago.
It's not just voters who have a marginal grasp of evidence, the same applies to this lot. Yep, it's all been a disorganised disaster which was exploited to help their chums but many will actually believe that this was a prime opportunity to prove that the markets and private firms can show themselves to be better than the NHS and civil service. So much for a degree in PPE. Andrew Mills will be nicely placed to buy up a tranche of all those foreclosed properties like his landlord role model Tony.
I hate the Tories
+1
The really sad bit about the Tories is that Labour was unable to beat this shower in the last election. So while millions may dislike/date the Tories and everything they stand for - we trust the other lot less. The people have chosen.
The majority rules the minority
Tories got less than 50% of the vote,but with an 80 seat majority of can do wtf they like
There's been a good series about American politics on R4, where the last 2 Republican presidents have lost the public vote by millions
And gerrymandering is so rampant that republicans can neuter Dem governors of many states
UK seems to be 5-10 years behind USA, different systems but trends there wind up here in a few years
Cummings has read Bannons playbook
Well worth a listen
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l8dv
Ben Wright examines how American electoral democracy has become increasingly partisan, and how the fight for voting rights will affect the 2020 election. From issues about access to the ballot and the shape of the political map to fundamental questions dating back to the founding of the Republic, America's electoral democracy is under greater strain than at any point since the Civil Rights movement.
In this new series Ben will examine these questions, and ask what they mean for American democracy. In this first programme he'll look at how access to the ballot has become a political fight, with Democrats demanding that voting be made easier while Republicans insist it must be made more secure. He'll ask whether a constitutional amendment passed in Florida in 2018 could determine the result of the presidential election. And he'll hear how each party is gearing up for a legal battle in November, with loudly-voiced concerns from the White House about voter fraud balanced by equally loudly-voiced concerns on the other side about 'voter suppression'.
Producer: Giles Edwards