[Closed] The Suarez Evra thing rumbling on.

DaddyPig - Member
Again. "I kicked you because you are black"...

That's it isn't it??

Thats was Evra's version, not Suarez's.

Erm - because Suarez does not believe that he did anything wrong, was unjustly banned and has had his reputation ruined.

How is that Evras fault?
He complained about being abused racially by Saurez, Saurez admitted it and he got banned.

So you think he shouldn't shake Evras hand because he racially abused him, and Evra had the cheek to complain about it? Interesting view.

I am flabbergasted people are actually attempting to defend Suarez in any way. Despite not particularly liking Liverpool, I've always admired the history, tradition of a big club. That's slowly eroding away and I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that.

KK and a fair amout of the support who are blindly following his lead are behaving distinctly small time. Perhaps A Galtieri/thatcheresque diversion from Kenny to distract people from problems on the home front? If so, it's working.

Evra is trouble, remember chelsea groundstaff,french national squad loves to be in the middle of aggro all the time

The simple thing that people are missing is that Suarez did not admit racially abusing Evra. There is no evidence to support it other than one mans word against another.

For example - Warton - you just emailed me calling me p****. Try and disprove it.

Warton - you just emailed me calling me p****. Try and disprove it.

No problem, I'll get my email records from my ISP. simple...

The simple thing that people are missing is that Suarez did not admit racially abusing Evra

He did though, you said so a few posts back.

Go on then - get your email records from your isp. But then again you might have used another connection, only a fool would send abusive email from their own connection right....

No I did not say that he admitted racially abusing Evra - he used the spanish word "negro" in a conversation in spanish. That is not racist abuse.

No I did not say that he admitted racially abusing Evra - he used the spanish word "negro" in a conversation in spanish. That is not racist abuse.

In an argument, not a conversation. Big difference IMO. I understand that it may not be a racial insult in his country, but his country has massive racism ingrained in the culture, so I take that with a pinch of salt.
Also, because he doesn't deem it to be racist doesn't mean other people don't, and won't take offence to it.

In an argument, not a conversation. Big difference IMO. I understand that it may not be a racial insult in his country, but his country has massive racism ingrained in the culture, so I take that with a pinch of salt.
Also, because he doesn't deem it to be racist doesn't mean other people don't, and won't take offence to it.

So does England.

Also - you still sent me an email calling me a p****. Why did you do that? 😉

because you are 😀

No I did not say that he admitted racially abusing Evra - he used the spanish word "negro" in a conversation in spanish. That is not racist abuse.

Nah mate - I'm certainly not a prude. 🙂

When would you consider a Spanish speaker using the word negro as being racist?

Dunno. Probably when they were being racist.

Something like "I kicked you because you are black"... might be considered as using the word black/negro/negrito in a racist way then?

Is your knowledge of uruguayan culture and language good enough to make that judgement?

Probably better than yours having lived among Spanish and South Americans, I would say yes. It's more likely that Suarez sees racism as acceptable as he has been a victim of it in the past.

I didnt ask if it was better than mine. I asked if you were qualified to make a judgement on this issue. I have lived amongst South Americans also, doesnt mean that I speak any of the language though.

As a Liverpool fan, I wish Suarez would just let his football do the talking. All this controversy that's following him around is bad for him, and more importantly, bad for one of the world's greatest clubs.

As for the racism - only Suarez can say what cultural meaning he applied when he called Suarez a negro. Not defending him at all, but if it's OK for rappers to repeatedly call each other "niggaz" and it not be deemed racist, then there's obviously an argument that cultural differences can be relevant.

Hablo Español, comprendo perfectamente bien que significa negrito, macho.

He didnt say negrito though now did he....

But please tell me what negrito means anyway.

What an odd thing to say, I guess I understand how the Spanish word negro is used and how racism appears in Spanish day to day life, but if you don't wish to learn from other's experiences, I can't do any more.

Looking forward to tonights MOTD to be fair.

I suspect you might not enjoy it quite as much as you're expecting, trolling. On the intro to the news they just showed a clip from the angle of the photo which you seem to claim proves your version of events - the first video I've seen from that angle. As a complete neutral (I'm very definitely not a MU fan), I'd suggest it's quite clear from that who's avoiding shaking who's hand.

Shall we start a new thread for Terry or tag on to the end of this one!?

What an odd thing to say, I guess I understand how the Spanish word negro is used and how racism appears in Spanish day to day life, but if you don't wish to learn from other's experiences, I can't do any more.

But spain isnt uruguay...

Yet we all watch blazing saddles and have a good chuckle 🙄

But spain isnt uruguay...

. I have lived amongst South Americans also

If you really wish to argue that Suarez called him a negro whilst nipping him in an attempt to calm him down and defuse a hostile situation then obviously a well reasoned argument wont persuade you. FFS a child can tell a better lie that that

ps

215. It was accepted by both Mr Greaney and Mr McCormick in closing submissions that this is
not simply a case of one person's word against another.
the actual report and Suarez's legal team accepting it is not just one person word against another

FWIW he displayed exemplary self restraint today in the face of Evras taunts at the end

Sad incident off which the constant apologists and non acceptance has shamed a trully great club

if Suarez genuinely feels he's done nothing wrong (then IMO he's a racist tool) then I can understand him not wanting to shake his accusers hand, but he has left Liverpool and in particular Dalglish with egg on his face after the statements earlier in the week.. [url= http://www.****/sport/football/article-2098485/Luis-Suarez-shake-Patrice-Evras-hand-says-Kenny-Dalglish.html ]Got that wrong then Kenny[/url]

I think the worst thing that happened in the game today was Suarez reaction at half time when he got all worked up and kicked the ball into the dug out, Valencia tapped him on the shoulder to say what do you think you're doing and Suarez starts wiping away at his shirt where Valencia had touched him.

I can't help but feel that despite the fact that SBZ's arguments are cogent, rational & compelling they are just [i]slightly[/i] undermined by the fact that we can all see the video for ourselves. (and read the however many pages it was report which comprehensively demolished the defence that it was all a cultural misunderstanding)

I think the worst thing that happened in the game today was Suarez reaction at half time when he got all worked up and kicked the ball into the dug out, Valencia tapped him on the shoulder to say what do you think you're doing and Suarez starts wiping away at his shirt where Valencia had touched him.

I spotted that on MOTD and was surprised it wasn't commented on.

I think many people feel Suarez was treated at least shabbily by the FA panel regarding this and Suarez himself feels that Evra lied and as a consequence didnt want to shake his hand.
In many ways this is at least consistent with a man who feels he is not a racist but has been portrayed as one. Evra and the media have put a mark on his career that will never go away.
I think the media are pleased that this can now continue even though the absence of a handshake is hardly a significant event.
What disappointed me the most was Ferguson's reaction and I am also disappointed that it is headline news on the BBC site.
Ferguson has presided over several similar non handshake events as well as supporting a player who assaulted a fan during a game, another who deliberately ended another players career and one who has avoided drugs tests. For Ferguson to continue to vilify Suarez simply because he refused to shake someones hand is beyond the pale.
What next ? Manchester United make offer for Suarez ?

Valencia tapped him on the shoulder to say what do you think you're doing and Suarez starts wiping away at his shirt where Valencia had touched him.

Mmm... not sure about that. I watched it over and over. Not sure if Suarez thought something had been thrown, I dont think we can tell from the pictures, he certainly did what you said but I don't think we should look for things that aren't there.

I'm from Scotland, so my exposure to fans of English clubs was slightly limited when I was growing up. So when I used to hear sweeping statements along the lines of "Liverpool fans whine constantly", I never believed it. However, some of their responses to the whole Evra / Suarez thing have been UNREAL.
Suarez is openly racist - Liverpool fans deny it, concoting weired conspiracy theories, when the FA, a QC, and pretty much the whole rest of the world can see he was plainly being racist. Liverpool fans blame Evra.
Suarez rejects handshake - I saw the game, saw the million replays on Sky afterwards, Saurez is the one who refuses to shake hands, it's as plain as day.
Denying this is utterly bizarre.

IT MEANS..... MAN UTD GET TREATED DIFFERENT WHEN IN FRONT OF THE FA AND SUAREZ AS RIGHT NOT TO SHAKE HIS HAND
IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH

Yeah... I presume you are ignoring the following.

Rooney's red card in the amsterdam tournament carrying through to the Premier league, despite Gerrards the previous season (in the same pre-season friendly tournament) not.

Rio's massive ban for missing a drugs test when a man city player did the same 6 months previously and got a fine.

Rooneys ban for swearing at the camera, whereas redknapp wasn't censured at all.

I could go on.

the FA is about as consistent as a box of frogs, but in this case they went to an independent panel and used the words he's said via kuyt and comolli's translation. If LFC think he's innocent where's the appeal?

nice tactic surfer make it all about man u and ferguson. I cannot believe a Lifelong liverpool fan who can remeber all those other "crimes" by Fergie was so disappointed by his reaction...surely this is what you have come to expect of this Knighted gent by now?
I hope your deflect it all back to Fergusson technique works for you and your beloved Liverpool- Would you like to defend King Kenny's interview and reaction out of interest

I suspect this approach will be as successful as their "acceptance" of the punishment.

I think many [s]people[/s]blindly loyal Liverpool fans feel Suarez was treated at least shabbily by the FA panel regarding this and Suarez himself feels that Evra lied and as a consequence didnt want to shake his hand.

From the FA report

376 Mr Kuyt also understood Mr Suarez to have used Dutch words which translated as "Because you're black". This was said, on Mr Comolli's
and Mr Kuyt's accounts, in the context of Mr Suarez replying to Mr Evra's "Don't touch me" comment rather than any exchange in the goalmouth. Both Mr Comolli and Mr Kuyt told us that they had misunderstood what Mr Suarez initially told them. We were sceptical about this explanation, although the point is probably most relevant as showing the confusion and inconsistency in Mr Suarez's account of events.

379 Secondly, we found Mr Suarez, in contrast, to be an unreliable witness on critical parts of his evidence. His evidence was inconsistent with contemporaneous evidence in the form of video footage, especially with regard to his claims of pinching as an attempt to defuse the situation, and using the word "negro" in a conciliatory and friendly way. He changed his account over
time in a number of respects. This all combined to cast grave doubt on the reliability of the remainder of his evidence on the main factual disputes.

Liverpool are a great club and they are not racist but if you think this victim mentality and blaming others is not Liverpool digging and making the problem worse then there is a long way to go till this resolves itself and Liverpool are once more held in the high regard they deserve.
It just seems to be my club right or wrong attitude from Pool fans which is a shame. loyalty and support is admirable except when it is blind.

Another Liverpool fan here.

Suarez was clearly out of order with the original Evra thing and should have just apologised, cultural differences notwithstanding. However, didn't Evra call him a 'stupid south American', arguably also racist, which seems to have got forgotten.

And this:

Ferguson has presided over several similar non handshake events as well as supporting a player who assaulted a fan during a game, another who deliberately ended another players career and one who has avoided drugs tests. For Ferguson to continue to vilify Suarez simply because he refused to shake someones hand is beyond the pale.

Whatever you think of Suarez (I think he is probably a fairly unpleasant character) I don't think much of Evra or Alex Ferguson either TBH. claiming Suarez could have started a riot is somewhat disingenuous given Evra's behaviour. And SAF and his pets in the media have been massively winding up this whole situation for weeks and weeks.

I'll also be interested to see what happens to England's Brave John Terry, who doesn't seem to be getting anywhere near the same abuse/vilification that Suarez does.

Ferusson is a great manager if not a great person - his comments for example mean we discuss Suarez today rather than Evras reaction/ goading at the end. The pressure is on Liverpool - this is great management if not great diplomacy. He did say Evra should not have done it mind but Suarez non reaction did show some class and self restraint.
Evra is a cock

I apologise for forgetting to defend them completely despite the evidence like the Liverpool fayns

the FA is about as consistent as a box of frogs, but in this case they went to an independent panel and used the words he's said via kuyt and comolli's translation. If LFC think he's innocent where's the appeal?

These FA appointed panels have a 99.5% conviction rate - did you really see this going any other way than a guilty verdict for Suarez?

Regarding the appeal - Liverpool were not allowed to appeal the decision, only the length of the ban and if they were unsuccessful the ban would have been increased. In order to try and move on, the club decided not to appeal the length of the ban.

I've said before, I don't know if Suarez is guilty or not but the way the FA went about this stinks. The dossier the FA released is full of inaccuracies and contradictions - it would be ripped to shreds in a court of law.

Liverpool FC have been very naive in how they have dealt with this and mistakes have definitely been made on their part. The whole thing is a sad affair for an LFC fan.

I apologise for forgetting to defend them completely despite the evidence like the Liverpool fayns

Um.... Like I did you mean?

I'm a Liverpool fan. I wasn't at OT yesterday but was at Anfield on Monday for Luis' return and I cheered as loud as the next man. I don't agree with the way that Suarez acted towards Evra back in October, but I certainly think it has been portrayed in the media as much more one way than it actually was, as pointed out earlier in the thread, by Evra's own admission he engaged in a conversation with Suarez about ethnicity before the use of the word Negro by Suarez. I think a ban was fair, though the way it was investigated wasn't and Suarez has now been vilified by all corners of the media and it's turned unfairly into a which hunt. Suarez did neither the club or himself any favours yesterday and I'm angry it him for it. You can see from Evra's reaction it's the opportunity he was hoping for and boy did he make the most of it. I lack objectivity in this matter and though I have no issue with thinking Evra is a deeply unpleasant human being, I'm running out of excuses for the way Suarez acts when presented with an opportunity to move on, or not create extra controversy.

Both Fergie and Kenny need to show unity in the situation, not make stupid statements about banning players for life or handshakes not being seen etc. there are much bigger issues here than a local rivalry that need addressing and the best course of action would be to display some kind of unity between the two most successful clubs in English football against racism .

I feel pretty sad about the whole thing this morning, both clubs have seen fans charged with racist abuse this month and both managers have inflamed an already bad situation. Then this morning I learn that Kenny, his wife Marina and their kids have received death threats through Twitter . Is this really an acceptable level of behaviour over a game?

As a Liverpool fan I can say hand on heart what has happened is not good for the club but it needs an understanding from everyone. Firstly Suarez was wrong in what he said. Liverpool as a club should have made him understand what can and can't be said and he should have been introduced to John Barnes and had racism explained to him properly and if he was a genuine guy, maybe just maybe his attitude would have changed. I also believe the FA should have ensured he went through an educating program to let him see the error of his ways.
I personally believe that Liverpool don't want to rock the boat with him, in case he up sticks and leaves which is very very wrong and not the way it should be. Liverpool as a club SHOULD have told him he was wrong and all this crap that's now going on maybe wouldn't be here and football could carry on and just get on with it. As normal, we don't have all the facts, we don't know whats going on behind the scenes but I hope Kenny is not being left out on a limb with this defence of Suarez when surely someone higher in the club should actually say something on the matter instead of sitting on the fence.
I hope it all goes away very quickly for the sake of football and decency for everyone.

What hadge said as well Good post

I apologise for forgetting to defend them completely despite the evidence like the Liverpool fayns
Um.... Like I did you mean?

Second that for Hadge.
Nobody has covered themselves in glory on this one. I'll give Suarez his due for not reacting to Evra's 'exuberant' celebration with the fans.