[Closed] The STW Ski & Snowboard thread. The 2014-2015 season

as snow's a different make up to rain

In Whistler there were a few days where I was walking to the Gondola in the rain, and sometimes it was still raining up at midway.

And in Mt Seymour North Van, there were a few days where I was teaching in the rain all day.

Maybe there a lots of makes and fabrics that aren't Gore tex which will keep you dry as the ones you mentioned, not saying there isn't, some of them are similar price to Gore tex! But for buying on sale on SportPursuit, Gore tex made sense! Not saying I need Gore tex, I just need to not get a wet a$$! 🙂

I would be happy buy 10 or 20k waterproof stuff

For me, 10k waterproof is the absolute minimum, wouldn't even consider anything lower. Even at that, I would consider it as OK for an every-day resort-riding jacket but wouldn't expect it to perform well in really bad weather or for touring.

eVent is a better performing fabric

I thought eVent was total shite and I'm not alone in that although there are still some that sing its praises. It did perform well but only for about 6 months.

For the last 6 years I've used Paramo salopettes for all my winter stuff. Climbing, walking, skiing on and off the lifts and touring. I must have put in well over 300 days in them and they're still going strong.

I'm not a fan of their stuff for other applications but for snow based activities they are the mutts nuts.

Gore are a scary bunch, not least in the way they try and control the market.

If you want to use any other membrane in your range, they basically blackball you out of it. It takes a brave company to say up yours to that!

eVent is a better performing fabric, as was Lowe Alpine's excellent Triple Point Ceramic among others. As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.

Ignorance in the market is to blame here.

FWIW, main jacket is Eider, with an Entrant fabric (20k water/20k breathe) and trews are TNF HyVent. Less of an issue, as they're very well vented. In both cases, keep the outer nicely proofed and job's a good 'un.

In Whistler there were a few days where I was walking to the Gondola in the rain, and sometimes it was still raining up at midway

Same in Fernie - in can be raining in town or at resort level but snowing above the mid-station. Having a jacket with less than adequate waterproofing is a recipe for chilly-chair-lift-rides ... hence my switch to an Arcteryx jacket. I can honestly say I haven't been disappointed with the GoreTex Pro Shell

my trews are Gelanots, apparently. Not been disappointed

Although I've never heard of these - thanks for the heads up nedrapier as I'm toying with the idea of some new 'slacks' for the coming season! 8)

edit - sadly I don't know anyone currently heading to the States - but they do look the business for the PNW!

edit#2 although I do see they have a UK and a Fernie dealer! Mmmmm

eVent is a better performing fabric

That's the point I lost interest in your anti-Goretex rant.

IME Goretex comes in lots of flavours some great, some not so great. Never had problems with high end Goretex, especially Proshell. Probably the weakest Goretex I've seen was on a Salomon jacket my wife had circa 2003. It wore badly after only a few weeks light usage, but it was cheap for Goretex. But the other 10 or more Goretex jackets/pants I've been through over the years have been excellent and I've got a few 10+ year old ones still in active service and still very much waterproof/breathable. For example I've got a Dainese Goretex XCR jacket that is simply bombproof. Newer ones are lighter and more breathable for sure.

I have also got a few decent non-Goretex jackets/pants and they do work, but not quite as well IME.

Hi, due to a mate dropping out and a chnage of plans, a couple of now us want to go to St Anton to meet another group of friends who have already arranged their trip. Has anyone got any tips for cheap ( i know i know its St Anton) accomodation. 2 to 3 people Thanks!

[img] [/img]

?

I've been watching the jacket discussion with interest.

As a sweaty gentleman who doesn't often feel the cold and is likely to be on a board at Easter for the next few years I've been looking at shell type jackets - I'm happy to stck a fleece or softshell underneath if needs be.

So tough, spectacularly breathable, and very waterproof (it's wet when you fall at Easter and it rains sometimes) - what jackets would you suggest?

PS I like snowskirts and wrist gaiters - but that might not be a deal breaker, particularly the latter.

I've been looking at shell type jackets - I'm happy to stck a fleece or softshell underneath if needs be.

Shells always make more sense to me for exactly that reason - layers beat insulation and mean you only need one decent outer.

So tough, spectacularly breathable, and very waterproof

If you find it then let me know! 😆
What's your budget and style-persuasions?

I would suggest the Westbeach Backcountry jacket I mentioned earlier, but it's all black so might possibly be a bit toasty in springtime sun. (I'll find out soon enough!)

Igm, have a look at the mid market brands, like Eider, Schoffel, Salomon and TNF.

Another advantage of a shell jacket is that you get something you can wear off the slopes as well. I have a plain black Eider shell, with thumb loops, removable powder skirt and hood and lots of venting. Good pockets, too.

Re warm weather skiing, I've skied jacket and base layer only and in some cases, just a windproof gilet over a fleece.

Eider, Schoffel, Salomon and TNF.

Skier brands! 😈

Last year it was base layers and trousers only and a standard round was one beer one water each.

Except the day it rained which was wet. Very wet. We had the hill to ourselves though.

Come on then Graham, name the boarder equivalent.

Had a look at Patagonia, Acteryx, Burton and a couple of others but they materials don't look that robust to me.

Am I asking too much for robust and breathable?

Come on then Graham, name the boarder equivalent.

Well if you've been following the thread you know that I've been looking myself after previous disappointments. Not tried my new jacket yet so I can't really recommend it yet (well.. I can.. this is STW after all 😉 )

What's your budget like?

If you're looking for mid-level boarder brands then try:

Burton, Volcom, Westbeach, Ride, Bonfire.

Depends on your style really. I'm too old for the multicolour clownsuit look, too untalented to carry off anything ironic and too out-of-touch to be trendy, so I tend to stick to large solid colours.

Am I asking too much for robust and breathable?

I think robust, very waterproof and very breathable is heading towards [i]The Bontranger Paradox[/i], especially if you throw in "reasonably priced".

Airblaster

http://www.myairblaster.com/ Great design and tested in Sasquatch

re St Anton not up for a VW especially not a yellow one

Had a look at Patagonia, Acteryx, Burton

Sounds like you're going higher-end - in which case I think there is a lot more crossover between ski/board/hike brands.

Have you looked at [url= https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/ ]Norrona[/url] ?

With a few exceptions (like Eider & Schoffel) many winter sport/activity brands seem to be agnostic when it comes to Skier/Snowboarder bias and this is a good thing in my opinion.

The likes of Volcom et al have also positioned themselves at the 'park-rat/jib-kid' market - irrespective of whether the kids are ripping it up on skis or snowboards.

Again ... this is a 'good thing' I reckon. 8)

The downside with a number of these brands is that their clothing ranges are often well insulated and therefore they aren't suitable for middle-aged chaps who get 'hot flushes' when exercising. 😳

Not a problem if you're just riding the chairs and cruising the groomers but if you are hiking/touring & sweating then shell jackets and a layering system is preferable.

Patagonia, Arcteryx, Norrona & Sweet Protection all make high-end (and pricey) shell jackets that are hard wearing and often multi-functional (since they are often derived from 'Mountaineering' style clothing)

So it really depends on what you want to use it for and what your budget is. If you are only having 6 days a year and staying in resort (i.e not far from a hot chocolate or vin-chaud) then it probably doesn't make much sense to spend a small fortune. Just try one and and buy the one that's comfortable and you like the colour of!

If your needs are greater, and you need something that's light; packable; part of layering system; powder features; venting etc then have a look at some of the brands I mentioned earlier (including 'Trew' that nedrapier flagged up) that have heritage in 'backcountry' product lines.

hehe - GrahamS ... you said it in a sentence whilst I waffled on for ages! 🙂

Not sure "unisex" ski/snowboard wear is such a good thing. A lot of "ski" clothing is really badly cut for snowboarding. Jackets are too short, trousers too close cut. Most memorably, a certain large British ski school operating in the Aosta valley had a legendary instructor uniform which was impossible to snowboard in without splitting the trousers at the crotch.

A lot of "ski" clothing is really badly cut for snowboarding

Agreed - Established 'Ski' brands make clothing for just skiing (which is completely inappropriate for snowboarding)

However the point I was trying to make was that many 'premium' brands like Arcteryx, Norrona, Sweet Protection, Picture, Oakley and to a certain extent TNF, actively design products for both skiing & snowboarding without the traditional limitations of skiing.

I think much of this is because the latest generation of kids who ski, wear very much 'snowboard inspired' clothing and wouldn't be seen dead in tradition ski attire, and it probably makes sense for apparel companies to maximise this cross-over potential.

Every resort in BC that I've been to has big groups of park-rats all looking gangsta & bad-ass mo-fo; all shredding the hill dressed in the same fashions whether they are on skis or snowboards. 8)

Europe on the other hand still has a big demographic of what I'd refer to as your 'traditional ski market' for whom rocking the Spyder jacket is perhaps still seen as the height of sophistication!

Anyway ... enough of my sarcasm. Parenthetically the only pair of trousers I've split at the crotch [whilst snowboarding] were Westbeach! I sowed them up every weekend and they lasted the 8 or so weeks left of the season! 😀

Digby, some of the stuff Eider make is pretty agnostic, IMHO.

Mine is one of these;
[img] [/img]
But in plain black. A few years old, so probably not bang on the snowboarderist trend, but it's not cut like an old skool trad ski jacket, a la Spider as you rightly point out!

10 or more Goretex jackets/pants I've been through over the years

How and why do you go through so many jackets?? Wear and tear?... Vanity? 😮

Only 10, I've got 10 breathable membrane jackets now. The latest is a Sun Valley in bright blue.

I asked Madame what her best jacket is. It's a basic Dare 2 B ski jacket passed on from junior who skied about about 100 days in all conditions before she got it. Madame also has Hally Hansen goretex and North Face goretex but goes out in the Dare 2 B in wet conditions.

Junior currently has a Horse Feathers jacket which is definitely not waterproof so he uses a DC town jacket on wet days to stay dry.

Digby, some of the stuff Eider make is pretty agnostic, IMHO.

A jacket that believes it's impossible for us to know about gods existence?

I've never heard of that but I do have some Logical Positivist skis which are perfect for big Ayer.

It's a good job Hora doesn't ski. He'd be changing his jacket every fortnight 😉

My Jacket is a 11 year old West Beach. Not too thick, so I can layer up underneath. Only problem is it's starting to fade a wee bit.
Trousers are a cheapish pair, Decathlon's own brand. They are water proof and feel great.
Although I do reproof all our gear every year.

I need some new insulated pants. Any recommendations for the ladies?

I need some new insulated pants. Any recommendations for the ladies?

Mrs CFH wears TNF almost exclusively. Mainly because they made some in a lovely pink that really went well with her jackets! Seriously!

That aside, they do seem to be very good quality, cut and work well for her. She runs cold, and really feels it when the temperature drops. Never heard a peep of complaint from her since she started wearing them.

She also has a pair of the yellow ones on here,
[img] [/img]
Lovely, but really show the dirt. (FWIW, I think Faiise may have thrown in the towel, sadly. )

That's nice to hear - all of my upper body stuff is TNF, but I've always purchased on the basis of cut and looks. I'm a fun skier rather than hardcore snow muncher so I will stick to what I know.

I'd like a big fat dump of snow in the Italian Alps please.

Departure day is getting closer.

33 cm in Fernie overnight! 🙂

Not helpful 👿

The 102cm forecast for my resort of choice by Monday. Now that's helpful. 8)

I'm assuming it's normal to spend an unhealthy amount of time webcam and forecast watching when you've booked an early(ish) season trip?

😀

I think I'm checking at least 5 times a day at the moment 😳

It's not looking good! 😆

While this bears as much relation to my skiing as New World Disorder does to my MTbing, enjoy a short little edit to get us back on the inspiration material 🙂

Well that's the first round of forecasts checked.

And all the webcams checked...... twice

And a couple of forums.

I'll give it half an hour and check again..... 😀

Ha 😆

Do you have of those targeted at folk who like to pretend they are middle class?

Is that triple XL?

😀

[i]Well that's the first round of forecasts checked.

And all the webcams checked...... twice

And a couple of forums.

I'll give it half an hour and check again..... [/i]

Glad its not just me then! 🙂

I'm relieved to see the temps dropping in Austria from the weekend and (Say it quietly) some snow on the way! 😀

25 days to go! 8)

Do you have of those targeted at folk who like to pretend they are middle class?

Step 2 - Choose 'Euro'!

🙂

Great video Graham....made me laugh! 😀

Note they also have How To Be A Mountain Biker and How To Be A Road Biker videos... (links at the end)

We call it the Euro Gap (between helmet and top of goggles). Very funny Graham S.

Can't understand why they are wearing a dress that I had in the 1980s. Wish I'd kept it now.

I'm relieved to see the temps dropping in Austria from the weekend and (Say it quietly) some snow on the way!

25 days to go!

Me too! Although only 18 days to go here.... 😯

As a large foreheaded gentleman I suffer from goggle gap.

Giro are the best and even their helmets don't come down to the goggle line.

Hence my well documented preference for helmet and sunnies maybe.

Nice video.

bought a £165 oakley jacket from an outlet store for £33 !!!!!!! now i feel i have to go boarding

I've checked snowheads already, but does anyone have any personal preference of Ski school in Val Thorens? I'm presently thinking Prosneige for some private lessons, both for my wife 1-2-1 and for me and a friend 2-1.

Also, as an intermediate (read capable after 2 years but looking to learn loads this year and not willing to stand around waiting for large classes to fall over while I wait at the back) will 3 mornings of 3 hours be the right amount? It'll give me time for a leisurely lunch then practice in the afternoon till I'm ready to fall over. Or would 4 be a better option?

Note they also have How To Be A Mountain Biker and How To Be A Road Biker videos

And the 'seminal classic' ... "I Only Ride Park"! 😉

Their videos pop up on NSMB site as I think 'IFHT' that are somehow linked/connected to NSMB.

Very funny - and pleasantly self-deprecating!

Anyhow ... back to the snow!

IGM, Smith lid and Oakley goggles on my sizable bonce. Zero gapeage.

Smith don't fit sadly. I tried.

I have a Giro shaped bonce. And only their expensive helmets too.

Story of my life - the expensive stuff is nicer...

Smith lid with Smith goggles here. Made for each other = zero gapeage too.

Edit: Gah. oh well

Surely:

[img] [/img]

Must work?

Yep they're pretty cool! By the way in reference to intermediate skiers....at what point does an Intermediate skier become an Advanced skier?

I like to think of myself as quite advanced but then someone goes past me like I'm a beginner and I come to my senses!

Is the term 'Intermediate' too extensive? Should there be a better grading system?

Plenty of charts out there to score yourself against.

[i]Plenty of charts out there to score yourself against.[/i]

[url= http://skiing.about.com/od/downhillskiing/a/abilitylevels.htm ]what are you?[/url]

Reckon I'm 7-7.5.....but Ive seen 11's out there! 😯

at what point does an Intermediate skier become an Advanced skier

I think it's a 'State of Mind' 8)

I wouldn't worry about it. Everyone has strengths & weaknesses; good days & bad days; crappy conditions & awesome conditions.

As long as you are progressing & enjoying it then what's the worry?

If you feel like an 'Advanced Skier' you *might* be an Advanced Skier, but it's purely subjective*

*Unless of course you are a seasonaire/instructor/guide/pro etc ... in which case you can bask in the glow of your own Advanced Awesomeness! 🙂

I reckon I was level 8 , able to ski everywhere but havent been in 16 years .

hoping for snow in Les Gets at Xmas .

Plenty of charts out there to score yourself against.

what are you?

Reckon I'm 7-7.5.....but Ive seen 11's out there!

Is that Canadian? What's the European equivalent of a blue?

This one is a bit more detailed:

http://www.insideoutskiing.com/level.html

Again though, it's subjective, and for me, the biggest thing is fitness.

As a rough guide:

Canadian Blue = Euro Red

[although they will vary from Resort to Resort and they aren't really directly comparable as a Euro Red might be a Groomed Run of varying width whereas a Canadian Blue might be narrow cat-track/trail through an ungroomed area]

[i]I wouldn't worry about it. Everyone has strengths & weaknesses; good days & bad days; crappy conditions & awesome conditions.[/i]

Very true.

Me too! Although only 18 days to go here....

That's more than ive got (12), at least there is snow at the resort and a ton of snow cannons. Can't imagine the full area stands any chance of opening sadly. To be honest, it's another week of lessons. So long as we get those in I wont be too dissapointed.

And we are away again late January, which helps 8)

Still, fingers are firmly crossed and prayers are being offered.

Some Italian/Austrian Reds are more like some French Blues.
Some (single) diamond blacks in north America are as hard as some of the hardest blacks in France.

I call myself an experienced intermediate, even though I've been skiing since 1988.

We'll I'm talking from '2 weeks of lessons so far' so not quite beginner, I can stand, get on and off of chairs and lifts ok, corner and stop, but I'm so so far from anything other than early intermediate. I'll avoid the grading graphs for a few years yet.

Grading systems are pretty random in any sport though, MTB black run at Thetford vs one in Wales or Scotland are 2 very different things.

One day I may make it to the heady heights of decent intermediate and happy to ride any slope, but I didn't get the opportunity to ski as a kid, so I have a lot of catching up to do with the seasoned pro's like you lot 😉

I've been musing recently on classifying ability level based on the terrain available to you. It's at least a little bit less subjective and it's easy to understand (e.g. doesn't rely on people self-describing their skidded turns as "carving").

It would go something like this:

New Skier: Limited to nursery slopes.

Beginner: You are limited to skiing/riding on green/blue runs and are not able to tackle anything steeper.

Intermediate: You can ride any groomed terrain comfortably, but struggle on the steepest slopes or if the surface is icy or bumpy.

Advanced: You can ride any groomed terrain in style and can deal with a variety of snow conditions. You can ski off-piste in most conditions. You are confident taking air off small natural or park features.

Expert: You actively seek-out the most challenging terrain wherever you go - on-piste, off piste or in the park. You can handle any conditions the mountain can throw at you.

[i]I've been musing recently on classifying ability level based on the terrain available to you.[/i]

The thing is, I am confident on just about anything, ski fast and can take on most situations, although tend to stay on piste. So whilst I am advanced in that environment, it then comes back to perfectly executed turns and style marks. Well I'm probably only advanced intermediate on that basis.

As said previously its great to aspire and keep trying to improve, but enjoyment is the key.

Intermediate and probably always will be here

rockape63 - sorry dude, you're an intermediate!

Sorry, it's a bit of a resort cliché - "What level of skier are you?"

"Well, I'm an expert skier, but I don't do black runs or off-piste".

"So, intermediate then?"

Nothing wrong with being an intermediate skier. You really need to be doing a lot of skiing (i.e. seasons) over a long period of time (i.e. all your life) to really be pushing towards "Expert".

Could always apply my Dad's test. He got it from a golf pro, so I'll stick with golf:

"What level golfer are you?"

"I don't know, not bad?"

"On a scale of 1 to 10, where a beginner is 1 and Tiger Woods is 10?"

"Eh, 3?"

stevomcd - I like that.

I feel a bit more upgraded now, as I will ski anything on piste, like a bit of off piste and love powder, although I panic sometimes when I get tired, when hubby leads me astray.

Still count myself as intermediate though, because even after many, many lessons, I still slightly skid my turns, which is very common with us recreational skiers.

Off to Norway this weekend but my new snowboard pants are too tight with my protective shorts underneath. Life is just a series of testing moments isn't it? [IMG] [/IMG]

Expert: You actively seek-out the most challenging terrain wherever you go - on-piste, off piste or in the park. You can handle any conditions the mountain can throw at you.

After 20 years skiing/snowboarding, a couple of seasons, working in the industry and a few holidays (for me anyway) with people who have competed in the Olympics, and countless mates who ski every weekend from bases in Geneva....there's only one group of people who I EVER actually hear utter the word "expert" when describing themselves...middle aged men who ski one week a year, read every ski magazine produced, can recite the technical specifications of every bit of ski equipment and can describe every ski run they've never skied....yet who cannot possibly admit to themselves (or more usually anyone who will listen) that they're intermediate 🙂

Working for a ski company is an eye opening experience as to the delusions of the majority of people who indulge in the sport. A marketing manager's wet dream.

I imagine it's the same in mountain biking? 😉

You can handle any conditions the mountain can throw at you.

Nobody then.

I'll happily tackle steep stuff but with apalling style and am far more confident off piste than on.

Where does that place me on the scale? 😉

Hors catégorie

Liability was what I was thinking...

I reckon I'm probably advanced by steveomcd's ratings - on skis and snowboard. 8)

I think "humble" is my level. Even then things go wrong:

We set out early: up the avalanche-prone slopes before the sun hit the slopes, along the ridge and back down safer slopes was the plan. When we got to the ridge the cornice was in a horrible state, well both were, one on each side. That meant reversing the way up and quick before the cornice fell off or other things started moving. Which they did but fortunately not much. So apart from slithering down with some surface slides and skiing snow so heavy each turn was playing Russian roulette with our knees we had a trouble free descent.

[i]rockape63 - sorry dude, you're an intermediate!
[list][/i]

Yeah, probably! 🙁

Edit: I would like to say that just reading the above and I certainly wasn't suggesting I was even close to being 'Expert'. I was merely asking if I was near 'Advanced' level.