[Closed] The Salvation Army- thoughts?

Harold Bishop

Brass bands

Worse army in the world imo.

Salvation Army Brass Band Carol book: an unsung great contribution to British culture. Every time you hear a brass band playing a Christmas carol, they're using this book.

At one time I knew pretty much the whole thing by heart, including which carols had which numbers. Then they changed the ordering around, and added "I Saw Mummy Kissing Santa Claus", and it was never quite the same.

Worse army in the world imo.

Chriastain based and in my experiance very committed to the work they do in areas some of us fear to tread. Having had a small amount of experiance with one of their Manchester hostels, the none judgemental help offered to those that turned up each day was a lesson. As far as I know they raise all the money they need themselves. Only the whole it's the on Christian charity I'd give money to. I look at what they do and who they work with in the UK and think that could have been me.

I met a salvation army captain a few years ago and he was a totally sound bloke doing a very difficult job in a shitty area. As others have said he went about his work in a totally none judgemental fashion
Hard as nails he was.

I've been doing some work at the Hadleigh center in Essex that's run by the Sally Army, they provide training and support for people with learning difficulties, and the work they do is superb, and makes a real difference to their lives..
Regardless of religion.. they do a lot of good work for people in local community's that need help and support..

If all they did was the Christmas band in Sloane Square, I'd happily donate just for that. As above though, they do so much more....! Worth noting re Hadleigh that the Olympic course was on their land, so kudos to them for getting that to happen.

As far as religion-based charities go, I think they're grand. They helped a friend of mine out when things went south while he was in Oz a few years back, and from his comments they were helpful, professional and, as others have said, non judgemental at a time when he was both in a shitty situation and embarrassed as hell about it. While he's not of any particular faith, he now volunteers with them over here to repay the kindness.

Oh yeah.. The Olympic course, its a lot knarlier in real life than it looked on the telly.. 😀
And if anyone's got kids its a great place for a day out, they have a rare breeds zoo and a nice little cafe that's full of cakey goodness.. well worth a visit and a show of support..

They do a lot of good work but on the other they have views on sexuality that I absolutely detest.

I don't agree on some of their views either, and I'm not religious in any shape or form, but they didn't judge me and don't judge the people they support, and do a lot of good work that makes a real difference to people's lives..
They are a crap army though, not one tank.. Not one... 😥 but they've got a castle, which is cool..

Nothing against them. Though I'm not keen on the militaristic heirachical structure, and when I see an attrctive young woman in one of their frumpy uniforms I think "What a waste...".

Gay prejudice.

Also, "salvation" from what?

I quite like their shiny buttons.

My Dad once shut the door on some Salvation Army collectors with the words: "sorry, I'm a pacifist"

They do a very good job, and I'm sure that they are a very pleasant bunch of dedicated, selfless individuals.

However, other, non religious organisations provide much the same support & you can't move round here for Brass Bands. 🙂

And their views (however non-judgemental) regarding homosexuality are a bit off.

>and when I see an attrctive young woman in one of their frumpy uniforms I think "What a waste...".<

I've got good news for you - they don't practice celibacy.

A good friend of mine tells me the story - As a young 18 year old serving in the RAF, he was sent to the Lockerbie disaster to guard the 'pieces'. The RAF provided next to nothing and the Salvation Army fed & supported the guys through, what I can only imagine was a horrific experience. His recollection is very thought provoking.
He is the most unreligious person I know, but he won't pass them & not donate.

Makes me think how easy it is to misjudge, just because of religion/preconceived ideas.

Looks like other peoples experiences reflect my friends.....

I'd be the first in line to make some snooty atheist comment, but they seem to do a lot of good alcohol, gambling and debt counseling here in Australia. They collect money in pubs on the weekend. they seem to be quite 'tough' and willing to get stuck in to unglamorous jobs in f'd up places in developed countries. Even Orwell in Down and Out in Paris and London says only that they are a bit preachy.

In all, they'd probably do better with a coin of Caeser's than I would.

Regardless of religion.. they do a lot of good work for people in local community's that need help and support..

The Salvation Army is an international Christian church worshipping and working in 126 countries and has more than 800 local churches in the UK and Ireland.

We believe in openly sharing our faith and the good news of God's love for everyone, helping individuals to develop and grow in their own personal relationship with God, demonstrating a practical concern for all and speaking out against social injustice.

But not for the gayers obviously

I think they are a really good "advert" for religion - they seem to do a lot of really good, useful, compassionate work in some tough communities, without ever preaching to anyone. I've dealt with a few of their hostels through work.

A long time ago, I briefly dated a girl who was in the Sally Army band - she, nor her parents, ever pushed the church thing on me, although they said prayers before meals.

They are about the only "religious" group I'll donate money to, tbh.

recruitment advertising to rival the RM Commandos

They helped out my grandfather when he was down on his luck. They are one of two charities that I donate to at Christmas (the other being GOSH).

I dont care of their religion nor of their views, but they seem pretty selfless and offer a lot of hope and assistance to those who probably need it the most. If donating at Christmas makes it possible for others less fortunate to have a better one - who am I to judge an organisation who can facilitate this.

Junkyard down and outs tend to be at rockbottom in every way possible so more of a cost/burden than 'rich pickings' if you want to argue the toss.

Someone burnt out and on the streets will hardly be a secret millionaire.

I uses to live close to a Major/Captain couple growing up and apart from always smelling of mints they always seemed nice/helpful.

As for the gay-thing. Name any religion that ignores the bible on this. Its their choice to not agree with it. Its not for everyone and vice versa.

...apart from always smelling of mints they always seemed nice/helpful.

😯 Mint ? They smelt of mint ??? How disgusting !

Mints not mint!

On top of all that, they have a really cool theme song...

Mints not mint!

Was Trebor ? ...........Trebor mints are a minty bit stronger

Stick em up your bum and they last a bit longer..

In the US they have refused to help anyone gay. Apparently the boss over there thinks gay parents should be put to death (most probably caught out on biblical teaching).

For that reason, I won't have anything to do with them and give my charitable donations to other sources.

Have you got a source for that, Adam? They say the exact opposite about serving LBGT people:

http://salvationarmynorth.org/about-us/what-we-believe/debunking-the-lgbt-discrimintation-lie/

Presumably the death thing is the ref to Romans in the Salvationist Handbook?

Stick em up your bum and they last a bit longer..

I'm not sure about them, but admittedly its just based on one event (which was very upsetting for me, at the time.)

West of Scotland, early 1970's, could be a hotbed of hatred between Catholic and Protestant. My Mum was a very liberal Catholic, and I'd go to 'The Chapel' in the morning, and then a Sunday School run by the SA in the afternoon with my wee pal across the road.

I had no concept of religion whatsoever, being 5 or 6, and just enjoyed all of it.

I'd being going along for some months to SS, and had been contributing 2p every week for the Christmas Party, when I came home one Sunday afternoon, very upset. The 'big man' who ran it had found out I was a Catholic, had handed me back all of my contributions, and in no uncertain terms told me that I shouldn't come back, and why.

Mum had a fit and tore strips off him.

I'm sorry to say this, but they've never had a penny off me since.

For the way a couple of family members/friends who are "Sally Army" behaved around my grandfather as he was dying I would not "give them the sweat from my bollocks".

I went to one of their playgroups as a toddler, so they do some good in the community.

Whereas the church of england haven't got time for, it appears to be a pensioner club for the pious, as a teenager, parent's divorced, and depending which parent I was with was whether they would recognise me, you have been to church but it's a shame they don't listen to a dam word and take notice, it's not just a place to go and put shiny coins in the collection as if paying into some comfy retirement home for when the man with a scythe comes knocking.

I would not "give them the sweat from my bollocks".

To be fair I'm sure they would decline the offer.

Konabunny:

I recall it being big in the 'gay press' (for want of a better word) at the time. Here's one link, but others are available if you have a quick google. It was Australia, from the look of it and they rapidly backtracked. Damage done, as far as I'm concerned.

[url= http://tgvnews.com/2013/06/salvation-army-says-gays-need-to-be-put-to-death/ ]http://tgvnews.com/2013/06/salvation-army-says-gays-need-to-be-put-to-death/[/url]

I do recall one instance of a gay man being refused help unless he ditched his partner, I'll see if I can dig that out.

Oh, found this, but it was from a while ago:

[url= http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/24/us/beliefs-salvation-army-hears-dissent-over-gay-views.html?_r=4&hp& ]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/24/us/beliefs-salvation-army-hears-dissent-over-gay-views.html?_r=4&hp&[/url]

I give charitably but I refuse to give to anything like them. The 'they should die' chap was obviously being honest until it got him into the poo.

FWIW the vulnerable and down on luck make excellent converts as they are vulnerable and rich pickings they know this as well.

This applies to the regular army as well as the Salvation one

It was Australia, from the look of it and they rapidly backtracked.

You mean it was one person who made the comment and the Salvation Army rapidly disassociated itself from it ?

I'm sure with a bit of googling you'll find a committed atheist who has made outrageous comments concerning gays.

Yes Ernie. I'm sure with a bit googling I could find committed X who said Y (for varying X and Y). Unfortunately it is in the DNA of religious types to either hate people like me, think me 'disordered' (actually I am a fairly tidy person) or that I'm wallowing in something called 'sin' and to be pitied. That 'person' was a senior official for the Salvation Army in Aus, not a chap off the street. If it were, I dunno, someone from Microsoft I'd stop and go 'eh?'. Not so religion.

Here's some more for you. I guess we could be doing this for a very long time...

[url= http://theweek.com/article/index/229796/gays-should-die-a-timeline-of-the-salvation-armys-anti-gay-flare-ups ]http://theweek.com/article/index/229796/gays-should-die-a-timeline-of-the-salvation-armys-anti-gay-flare-ups[/url]

I would suggest googling christianity hating gays but I think somehow you'd most probably spend the rest of your life reading the results.

It's just as well I don't have to justify where I give my money to, eh?

😕 Erm, your link just emphasises my point, ie, it was a comment made by one individual which the Salvation Army rapidly disassociated itself from.

From your link :

[i]In a statement, the Salvation Army "sincerely apologizes" for Craibe's "miscommunication" and the "serious misunderstanding" of the group's beliefs. The scripture in question "is not referring to physical death, nor is it specifically targeted at homosexual behavior," says Maj. Bruce Harmer of Salvation Army Australia. Instead, the church believes that "no human being is without sin, all sin leads to spiritual death (separation from God)," and that [b]"it would be inconsistent with Christian teaching to call for anyone to be put to death."[/b] [/i]

I'm not defending the SA or its views on homosexuality, but to use one apparently outrageous comment by one individual, which the SA quickly disassociated itself from, to provide the basis of the SA's views on homosexuality, is clearly unfair.

Yes Ernie, the backtrack does say that. Weasel words, as far as I'm concerned because it falls into the religious "quick switch to allegory and woo" type. "Err, we mean't *spiritual* not physical." Either that or the man talking wasn't au fait with his own religion.

Just out of interest - how many 'outrageous comments' would it take for me to not be 'clearly unfair'? Some of the others within the link perhaps? 10? 20? 100?

Lets just say that I refuse to give money to the SA, as I refuse to give money to [i]any[/i] religious institution and leave it at that shall we? If you like, this christmas you can put a pound in the SA bucket and say "That's for Adam". I'll add a bit more onto my AKT donation on your behalf.

Yes Ernie, the backtrack does say that.

Do you understand what "backtrack" means ? It means saying one thing then saying the opposite. The SA never said that gays should be put to death, one individual made that comment, they didn't "backtrack".

The fact that you have to keep hanging on to one comment which one individual made, rather than looking at what the SA as an organisation says, suggests that you are struggling. How about a link which clearly spells out the SA views on homosexuality by the SA itself ?

It is a historical fact that some of the leading anti-gay activists, specially in the United States, have been gay themselves. Even the persecution of gays by nazi and neo-nazi organisations have been in some instances been led by gays. I don't however denounce all gays because of the anti-gay activities of a few gays.

.

If you like, this christmas you can put a pound in the SA bucket and say "That's for Adam". I'll add a bit more onto my AKT donation on your behalf.

For a variety of reasons I'm not a huge fan of the SA, for that reason I am unlikely to make a donation Christmas or at any other time.

Ah Ernie, you're doing it again. Every single time I have any discussion with you it turns into a sort of argument. And I'm usually a happy-go-lucky chap.

Tell you what.

From henceforth please don't interact with me. And I won't with you. I think it will be better all-round if that's the case.

Every single time I have any discussion with you it turns into a sort of argument.

I had no idea that I had ever previously discussed anything with you.

I'm usually a happy-go-lucky chap.

But not when someone has a different opinion to you ? ffs

I'm usually a happy-go-lucky chap.

Quite gay you mean?

Quite gay you mean?

😀

Vey gay. As gay as you can get! 🙂

Twice before I have "discussed" things with Ernie. The first time ended up being quite heated and led to me feeling that STW was such a bag of poo that I avoided the forums for over a year. Left a bad taste (no, don't go there....!). The second time I was accused of flouncing a year or so ago. It's a shame as I think that on a political level we probably have similar views. However I have not had any other altercations with any other member (not even Fred or TJ).

I guess I do have a good memory which could be a bane and tend to pop in and just touch on topics as opposed to have big discussions, so will remember them when they occur.

Anyhoo my views are clear: I don't give to any religious organisations and look askance at the SA. That's the last I'm saying on this thread and will now move on to -- oo - "Glistening thighs". Sounds right up my street! 😯 😀 😆

AdamW a sort of Über-gay? 🙂

The Salvation Marines are the real hardcore God squad.

I'm sure with a bit googling I could find committed X who said Y (for varying X and Y).

We've gone a long way from "In the US they have refused to help anyone gay. Apparently the boss over there thinks gay parents should be put to death" to "one provincial press officer in Australia once said something to a couple of provincial DJs which was rejected by the organization".

I think they have serious bottle. I've been in some really rough old pubs close to closing time and the SA old ladies cheerily breeze in and try to sell Warcry. No amount of abuse phases them and in the end I've seen them disarm total yobs with a nice elderly smile. Much more bottle than the Jehovahs who have prepared an escape route from your front door and I doubt spend much time in Moss side.

But not when someone has a different opinion to you ? ffs

It probably depends on how that opinion is voiced. Your usual means of voicing contrary opinions, ernie, is to antagonise. Whether that's deliberate or not I don't know, but it is how you frequently come across. I accept the pot/kettle situation in me saying this, and I'm actively trying to change that myself.

My tiny personal experience of them:

They were running a superb soup kitchen in Peterborough. Peterborough is probably one of the worst places I've ever been to. The SA there were helping people at the bottom of that place. They were doing it with a smile, with good grace and without any bias or hatred in their hearts. Every organisation has good and bad.

Ernie arguing? Who'd have thought it... Almost as unbelievable as Zokes not getting involved... 😛

It's hardly "arguing" to point out that it is obviously not the aim of the Salvation Army to have gays put to death. Whatever one individual might have said.

Unfortunately it's clear that AdamW is not used to anyone having the temerity to contradict anything he says with regards to all gay related matters. So if he says the aim of the Salvation Army is to have gays put to death then no one must dispute it. Apparently.

Your usual means of voicing contrary opinions, ernie, is to antagonise.

They were running a superb soup kitchen in Peterborough. Peterborough is probably one of the worst places I've ever been to. The SA there were helping people at the bottom of that place. They were doing it with a smile, with good grace and without any bias or hatred in their hearts. Every organisation has good and bad.

There used to be a place called the King St mission in Huddersfield that I'd describe as similar. I think I'll volunteer to help out on Christmas day.

The SA had a cracking soup kitchen up near StAndrews church near the Barbican, Plymouth, matelots and bootnecks were always welcome.