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Enjoying the thread and some interesting stories.
I’ve got some pain. There’s always some pain, but this has got me thinking. 5 minutes into a run I’m fine and do an hour or two - 11k last night, trail half at weekend.
After I cool down my lower legs and right inner ankle are really painful. The morning after it’s hard to climb stairs and come down. Walking is painful but after a few mins I’m ok.
Am I just old and approaching decredidity or should I get it checked? Stress fractures spring to mind.
It's just recovery aches and pains, I wouldn't worry about it. Again, it's something I notice with increased running, the more I run, the less of that kind of stuff I get.
I think it depends on how often you are running and how much of a break you have between runs.
When I'm training for a marathon I get all manner of niggles over and above what I would normally get. I think its the body adapting to the new stresses being placed upon it. I don't stop unless its serious and keep pushing through the plan (I don't have a set plan, its just a case of more miles, more hills, more speed increasing over my build up period). When I get to a couple of weeks out from the marathon, when the peak weeks are behind and it's into the taper (I don't aggressively taper, mainly dial back the intensity a little bit but don't drop the mileage too much) everything seems to settle down and the niggles disappear. It's then just a case of maintaining the calm up to the event.
Talking about mileage, it's taken me about 4 years to build up to regularly topping 100 miles a week, pretty sure I'd be more broken had I done this more rapidly. My training at the moment is certainly sub optimal, I'd be much better doing double runs for recovery. Unfortunately I can't really fit those practically into family life without being utterly selfish, and running isn't that high up my priority list!
TSS is a valuable score to determine the overall impact on recovery, if you do all of your running really easily you could handle loads more than hard stuff on the track, as extreme examples. This isn't infallible though - the other day my HR strap decided it wasn't going to connect to my watch, so it was using the useless optical sensor. It reckoned that I had an average HR of 172 for 2 1/4 hours. Given that's 4 bpm higher than my recent fast 5k, that would have been an absolute monster effort, and as a result told me that I needed 3 1/2 days recovery 😀
Currently sat in hospital waiting to be wheeled down to theatre for a double hernia op. But smug that I managed to bash off my final few Kms last week to mean I’ve made my goal of 1,000km this year. 60kms last week though - that’s a big week for me but managed to keep my niggling IT band issue at bay!
Hope the op goes well! I also hit my 1000k target the other day. Maybe 1000m next year?
It’s just recovery aches and pains, I wouldn’t worry about it. Again, it’s something I notice with increased running, the more I run, the less of that kind of stuff I get.
I have lots of aches and pains but if I stop running for a week they almost all disappear (and I am 56) other than 1 or 2 things which are non running related such as arthritis in my big toe joint. That's why I am always sceptical of people who pack in running because they have an injury. I am sure there are genuine cases but I am great believer that almost every injury clears up given time and that running (even lots of miles) does not cause any "wear and tear" issues or problems that you would not have developed anyway.
Aye, I think there are some who genuinely just don't get past the horrible feeling when you start out running, and a dodgy knee or ankle is an easy way out!.
I've managed my highest weekly mileage since early summer, a mere 36 miles, last week, and legs feel great, not a hint of stiffness or anything, I'm fairly lucky that way.
I know for a fact that if I was to go back to even a bounce game of 5 a side, I'd be in bits for days though!.
Completed my first half marathon distance run at the weekend on local forestry trails. When I say run, it was really more of a slow shuffle, I didn’t set out to run that far and after 5k almost turned for home as my legs felt awful, but I kept on plodding and felt better as I went along, at least until the last couple of kms.
Not as sore as I expected the next day, but recovery is a slow job these days. So now I just need to up the climbing and carrying as I now seem to have agreed to do a Mountain Marathon next summer...see what you lot have got me into 😀
Lovely work @crewlie, a mountain marathon is on my list.
I've just had an e-mail saying that a actual race I have in the diary for December may well go ahead! I'm astonished.
It'll be a weird format and the course is pretty horrible, but it's a race and that's what matters at the moment.
I've found my general running, tiredness and overall demeanour to be deteriorating over the past week, so I think my overall training schedule is a bit too heavy at the moment 😮
The 4:15 starts and 17-20 miles have become rather relentless and I've been struggling both with enthusiasm to get them done, and actually performing sessions. I think I'll have to back it off a bit to get a bit more sleep, reduce the mileage a bit, and maybe split my singles into some doubles. I have found doubles so much easier to recover from that in the past nearly 100 miles a week in just my 5 days of run commuting has been a formality. Certainly not the case on early morning singles...
The 4:15 starts and 17-20 miles have become rather relentless and I’ve been struggling both with enthusiasm to get them done, and actually performing sessions.
I doubt I'm alone on this thread when I say I'm very impressed you've managed to do the sessions, let alone actually have any enthusiasm for them at that time in the morning 🙂
Maybe lighten the load for a couple of weeks heading into Christmas, then dial it up again?
Aye, I'd agree, consider having a light week every 8 or something?
I now seem to have agreed to do a Mountain Marathon next summer…see what you lot have got me into
I wouldn't worry bout it, Mountain Marathons are mostly walking for most competitors anyway!
I think a lighter week every month was in my general plan, but the hard weeks need a bit of a re-think too I reckon. I have a 5k on 20th December, so I'll have ease up in advance of that and then get on it again. I don't have any issue running hard early in the morning, but it's been a challenge the past week or so. I did hear that it's better to go into a race 10% undertrained than 1% overtrained, so I think erring on the side of caution might be wise here.
I've just had a message that a half marathon everyone assumed was off...is in fact on and taking place this Sunday.
This is not ideal for a number of reasons.
1. I share a car with my wife (well, I don't, it's her car and I borrow it) and she needs it Sunday...the race is 15 miles away so I either get a cab over or cycle.
2. It was the first club run back last night and it went exactly as you would expect when you get 6 people together who've not run hard for 5 weeks. We basically beat each other up for 10 miles and now I feel shattered.
3. The original route of pavements and roads has not been replaced with an absolute mud bath of tow paths and old railways. This will make it even hard than it was originally.
4. I've been steadily upping my mileage and am on 70 per week, it's Thursday and I've done 40 already this week. This is not in any way a taper...
This will not be fun. Still, first race since Feb so that's a good thing.
My way of thinking about it is if you need to set an alarm to get up to train then you're cutting into sleep you probably needed. So possibly it's more the sleep pattern than the running load that's doing you in, especially as you've done bigger running weeks before just at different timings. Everyone's body clock is different, I really struggle trying to train after dinner. I reckon there is possibility in training body clock, but that's a separate factor on top of running training.
If you'd be up anyway then it's more likely to be the right time to run long.
Edit. Was reply to tf.
Lunge, best of luck anyway. You know you'll love it when you get going. And there's no time pressure with all them factors so just enjoy it. Sometimes them runs surprise you..
Also- nice one crewlie
I've been dipping in and out of this thread as I've been trying to get a bit better at this running stuff.
I consider myself decently fit, but found that running more than a couple of Km would leave me in pain the following day(s). Anyway, followed some advice, and can now handle 5-6K regularly (25-30mins) without any real stiffness to follow.
However, if I do more than 20-25km in a week my achillies tendons start to get very sore, meaning I have to lay off running for about a week.
Could it be my shoes? or is it something a 51 year old newbie runner needs to just watch out for?
There’s a few posts about what’s a niggle and what’s not recently in this thread and folk running through stuff. I would maintain the mileage your body seems comfortable with for a few weeks before increasing it gradually.
@lunge - just go and smash it. No time to prep, no time worry, so no expectations. Go and enjoy, turn yourself inside out and marvel at your achievement. And as you say, it's a race...
My next race is scheduled for September 12th!!!
Today's run was a very interesting compare and contrast.
Last night I did 10k in my new VaporFly's, my first run in them and oh my, they are magnificent. Light, bouncy, fast, just amazing to run in.
This morning I did the same route in the React Milers...and I felt like I'd got blocks of wood on my feet. And I've barely felt enjoyed a run less.
The conclusion is I need to hide the VaporFly's away for special occasions or they'll spoil every other shoe I own!
I always run quicker in new shoes.....give them a few more goes before you draw any firm conclusions!
@lunge it is indeed very easy to get addicted to supershoes which make everything else feel horrible. It can get to be a rather expensive habit too, as they have a relatively short lifespan 😮
Been reading along this thread as I've been slowly converting fat to fit. I only run in the hills, or at least offroad as training for that and I fancy taking my 14yo son on a short course mountain marathon next summer. He's been doing the odd hill run with me since he was about 10 and trains weekly offroad with his club. Anyone taken a kid on such an event and if so how did it go?
Anyone taken a kid on such an event and if so how did it go?
Check they're allowed, not all races allow under 18s to do marathons. My club organises a 26km race for over 18s, but juniors do a 14km version.
The one I'm looking at is Arran in June and a 14yo can participate with a parent, which is why it appeals. It is about 25 miles over the weekend, so not unduly onerous.
Kong Mountain Marathon? that's a new one, not heard of it (live across the water from the island). Looks like 2000-2500 over 2 days, so not bad (I did Tarsuinn trail last year, was 2000m over 16 miles).
Are these a navigation challenge too, as I don't see any routes?.
If he's in a club ask his coach maybe? I'm not going to risk advising yes or no - 14yr old boys vary massively, and I've no idea if he's big for his age or whatever...
If you do decide to go it would probably be worth doing a Sat+Sun runs, to get him used to running on tired legs.
Yup - route publication is limited to rough mileage and height estimate. Nav is very much part of the challenge, so you get the route at the start of day 1. Not intending to race, but it would be a great experience for him and hopefully something good to share.
Are these a navigation challenge too, as I don’t see any routes?
Yes. It's basically longer orienteering. Variety of courses though, some are point to point (just visit all the checkpoints) others are scored (remote checkpoints count more).
They're really good fun* weekends.
*you know what I mean.
So anyway, turns out that over training and no prep works well...
Half marathon yesterday, less a race than a time trial, small groups set off at 10 minute intervals to allow a suitable distance between people.
It was wet and cold (just the way I like it) and the course was an absolute mud bath with everything from leaf mulch to standing water to bogs all over it. Felt more like an XC course than a trail run in parts.
I've not raced a half since the back end of last year and it's not unfair to say my running has taken a fair step up in terms of mileage since then. But with no races this year, I wasn't sure how I'd go, and the lack of prep wasn't going to help either.
The thing I was struggling with was the pacing, as I'd not raced or even done a hard run at that distance for a year, I wasn't sure what speed I could hold, how quickly to set off and what I was capable off. I erred on the side of caution for the first half, running to a pace I was happy with and then ran the second half on feel, pushing on in the parts I could.
And all that resulted in a 7 minute PB and crossing the line knowing there's a lot more in the tank.
A very successful morning.
I'd be entering the Kong MM if it didn't clash with some other events. I've run a couple of MMs over the years and enjoy them - the Peak Raid 3hr mini-MMs are good as well if they're running.
I did a local orienteering event yesterday - Harden Moor near Bingley. Made a total and utter cat's arse of it, overshot the first checkpoint and that kind of set the tone for the rest of the course. Maybe a case of not quite adjusting to the map scale, may also be that I'm now running faster than I can navigate, but yeah, did not have a good run. Enjoyed being out despite the cold and wet conditions, but the run itself was comedically bad.
Cracking day out on the hills last week (looking for a second bite of the cherry here, already posted on the hillwalking thread) in the Carneddau. Mist down, 3 tops, lots of snow, lots of nav, met a man in shorts soon after I'd stopped to put ALL my layers on 🙂
In other news, local trails remain sloppy. Another pair of shoes in the bin with a massive rip, biding my time from the shoe archive till santa delivers their replacement.
Congrats @lunge on the new PB, always nice to get one of those!
Also had a good run this weekend, albeit I was at the back of the group the whole time - I feel a bit guilty at holding them up, but they were all faster than me in October, and me (but not them) spending all November in lockdown hasn't improved matters... Gale force winds also made it interesting at times, as did the massive amount of surface water. Fun though 🙂
Good running all. Thanks for the injury feedback. I have an enforced 10 day test to see if the niggles disappear. Ankle getting much better 5 days in. We shall see.
A bit of advice needed.
In theory I'm doing an ultra in May (Covid pending), 40 miles so nothing really silly, but still a long way. I'm approaching the training the same way as I would a marathon just with more miles, so instead of my longest run being 20 ish, it'll be nearer 30.
Anyway, the question. There is a trail marathon covering very similar terrain 3 weeks before the ultra. To my mind, this would be a great way to do a final check of kit, test the legs and do a long run at the same time. But at the back of my mind I wonder of doing that kind of distance 3 weeks out is little close to the main event?
What do you reckon? I generally recover pretty well and I'd hope I'd be comfortable at marathon distance by that point in the training. I'd obviously not go hard in the run, but would like to it at ultra pace.
3 weeks is loads of time IME, sounds a winner.
@lunge - How far out from a mara would you do your longest training run? I would probably be at about peak distance coming up to 3 weeks out, so I think you would be fine to do that distance, but I wouldn't treat it as a race and 'try' not to get sucked into mixing it up with the other runners.
Set out your plan and try and stick to it as best you can.
Oh, and well done on your half at the weekend - smashed it!
Thanks @alanf
How far out from a mara would you do your longest training run?
3 weeks tends to be my last and longest run before a mara, 21 miles normally (I like to know I can get over 20!), so in ultra context you've backed up my thinking.
As long as I treat it as miles in the legs and don't go and thrash myself I think it'll work well. Just need to get out of my head the idea of a marathon PB in it!
The thing is, a trail marathon over lumpy ground isn't where you want to be looking for a pb, and with the miles and training you've been doing, I think any road marathon that's pretty flat will give you that PB. That's not to say that you couldn't get a PB on the trail, but I'd be more inclined to stick to a plan and use it as 'miles in legs' and kit finalisation. You'll no doubt have extra kit which you wouldn't have on a road marathon, which wont help either.
It will be hard to stay disciplined though if you are feeling good.
The only 'Ultra' I've done was about 1 month after I did Boston (UK) marathon but I was well recovered after it. It was supposed to be 30 miles but I think most clocked over 31 and I got lost a couple of times so reckon I did north of 33 in the end. I enjoyed it though.
Take it easy and you should be fine - it's a good opportunity to tweak any kit choices etc.
I've never been a strong believer in tapering, think I clocked up 50 or 60 miles in the penultimate week before my Bob Graham (one weeks full rest before the event) then this summer did a 45 mile lakeland round with only a few days off following a 50 / 60 mile week. I've done the High Peak Marathon a number of times at last minutes notice, again at the end of a 50 / 60 mile week.
On anything that long the key to unlock is eating. Get it wrong and it will ruin you. Marathon's are short enough that this isn't usually a consideration, you can get round on gels, but if you rely on gels on something that long you'll get a bad tummy, or the squits, or puking.
With that in mind I'd focus on long days out and learn what food you can digest in enough quantities to keep you going, how much / frequently and not ruin your day. FWIW I found that sandwhiches (white bread) with jam and peanut butter or marmite an peanut butter were great. Rice pudding is good as well. Crisps are also a welcome relief amd topping up with gels in beween can work. Speed during these days out isn't so improtant, you need to replicate the scenario in which you'll be getting hungry, but need to eat and keep moving.
With regards to the race - I don't think the tail run that close will cause you a problem, only if you twist an ankle or some other sort of injury.
Has anyone got a copy of Runner's World Run Less Run Faster? I bought a copy the other day with the aim of following it in the new year but am a bit confused, do you start on Week 12 (5k plan, longer distance plans are 16 weeks) in the table or Week 1?
Also treated myself to Forerunner 45 Plus after using the very basic Forerunner 30 for the past couple of years. The difference is night and day in terms of programming intervals, one less thing to think about whilst puffing away with the beeps telling what to do.
Cheers.
Anyone done the Mallorca (Palma) half? I’m considering it for October next year as my first. Tia
Evening all, all well?
Can anyone suggest a good running jacket? I’ve always been against them as the only ones I’ve worn have been really warm and sweaty. I tend to get hot when I run, I’m quite happy in a thin base layer and shorts until 2 or so degrees, but I’ve done a couple of run this year when it’s been wet, windy and cold and I’ve struggled a bit.
I guess I’m thinking windproof more than anything, which breathes well.
Happy new year everyone, just been for the first run of 2021 with the missus.
Slight issue, my Garmin was adding on around 240m per km (known route) and when uploaded to Connect the track has gone mental. Has anyone had a similar problem? Have turned it off and will see if it behaves itself tomorrow.
Also tried out my new Nike Streak 7s, first impressions are good, very light and seem to propel me forward slightly compared to my old shoes.
@nostrils, no idea on the Garmin issue but agree, the Streak 7 is a lovely shoe, the last of the proper racing flats I suspect as Nike have killed off that genre with the VaporFly.
Happy New Year folks and a big thank you for the advice you all gave me earlier in the year. I can now run with no sign of shin splints!! The stretches suggested by @turboferret & @sirromj have done the trick. Without having a target I’ve managed over 500km and recently done my fastest 1/2 marathon in 1:46:55 which I’m well chuffed with. Thanks again and I’ll maybe see some of you at a race one day 😂😉
Lunge,
ASICS do nice windproof jackets that seem like what you're after. Really thin, vented on the back, feel windproof and a bit of rain protection but not much. Feels a bit like "pertex" but own brand material. Pack small into their own pocket, and fit in a shorts pocket. Jacket for non jacket wearer, really.
Found one in the outlet a few years back at £3. Been the best value running kit I've ever had. They size small. Usually I'm L, needed XL
Congratulations jodafett, good running buddy.
Happy New year all.
@lunge. I use a Buffalo windshirt which is just basically a pertex shell. I use it for the conditions you describe. It looks/feels like a rag, packs up ridiculously small, but by golly it works. Other pertex shells are available if the Buffalo cut does not suit.
On a side note I done a snowy 12km this morning in the hills. One of them days where everything just worked and the run felt good. Good start to the year.
I'm trying Maffetone style running. Not sure on the long term effects but I'm enjoying not going out and feeling wrecked afterwards. My mileage is the same, but runs take longer, not an issue in the current climate shop happy to continue with his methods.
Decathlon would be another place to look lunge.
@lunge, did another 12km in the Streak 7s today and they felt great, do you think that Nike will discontinue the streak range now in favour of carbon plate shoes? Seriously considering stocking up on some...
In other news, Garmin seems to behaving itself today after turning it off then on again, will keep an eye on it.
lunge, my favourite running jacket by far is a cheap pertex windproof from Mountain Warehouse, cost maybe 10-20 quid in a sale. Bright yellow for visibility, full zip so I can put on and off on the move and easy to tie round when not in use. Pockets for hat and gloves. Holds up well to anything short of the most grim cold and rainy weather.
Think it's this one but I never paid as much as 30 quid:
@nostrils, I’m just not sure there’s a market for them. They used to be the Nike racing shoe, but racing shoes are now almost all high-stack, carbon plated shoes. They’re generally more forgiving and faster too.
I love mine, they feel amazing to run in, particularly for short, fast stuff, but they can beat you up a bit, the Vaporfly’s and the like are much more forgiving.
Howies jacket reduced. Maybe better to colder days..
@lotto Thanks for that, my watch apparently uses the Sony chipset so that could explain it, its been fine today though oddly.
DC Rainmaker reporting on the issue now too who is a bit of a Garmin expert. Sounds like the issue will resolve with the next couple of syncs.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/01/gps-accuracy-impacting-devices.html
I have copied Sean Conway's january challenge (1km on the 1st Jan, 2km on 2nd of Jan, 3km on the 3rd etc) to raise money for charity.
Towards the end of the month - day 20+ its going to be getting brutal. Does anyone have any advice on how to recover for back to back daily running? Increase protein intake?
You'll probably find by the time you get to day 20, if you're not injured your body will be adapting and you may start to feel good.
My mate tried something similar last March (but miles not kms) and got to day 22 before lockdown foiled him (he had to shield). He said towards the end he was feeling great and it was only logistics that were getting complicated.
having said that though, good quality fuel, good quality rest and looking after yourself are all going to help.
If you've not get any recovery leggings, might be worth looking into them. I was sceptical but I do think (anecdotally) that they help. It's not a super boost, but when I've not worn them after a long/hard session, I seem to feel it more the next day than when I do.
Oh and good luck and try and enjoy.
Thanks - i hope it does come to a logistic only issue!! I have some recovery leggings from years ago - i will give them a go.
Aye, I agree with alanf, you'll get better as the days roll on, good challenge though, I'm sure you'll do it. I'd definitely mix it up though, try different routes, new areas of town, and mix up surfaces too.
Good start to the year for me, 32 miles done in January, lets see how long it lasts!
Anyone use toe-socks to run in? I get the occasional blister between toes on long runs and have just ordered a pair of these to try.
Wondered if anyone had used similar before?
Anyone use toe-socks to run in?
Not personally but the missus swears by Injinji for ultras.
The Decathlon ones look like a bargain compared to those.
Got a pair of those last year and they're fine. Also realised that normal socks are mostly fine for me too, and I've got loads from presents so wear more of them.
I used to use Injinji toe socks and loved them. Only stopped because I prefer wool socks, and the wool Injinjis are the best part of £20 a pair which was a bit rich for me!
Toe socks? Yes, Injinjis are pricey but worth it. Running an arctic ultra where you need to wear oversize shoes to stay warm and blisters between toes can be a real problem. I also wore a pair of the merino ones for 5 days as inner socks when fat-biking in extreme cold - lots of pushing. Now my regular running wear - the knee length compression ones are great for trail running too.
used Injinji for years but this time of year its Sealskinz! been off the MTB for a couple of month due to nerve issues so running is my main 'thing' at the moment.
trying out my new pair of Innov-8 X-Talon 210 that arrived today. ill be solo running in the local woods. having spoken to various people recently the common opinion is that there is no way they would run around the woods at night, especially alone....wonder if this just feels normal to me because of MTB. anyone else do it?
Far safer than running through town at night!
I like running solo in the woods at night. Means no bugger else is around to hear me talking to myself and wheezing...
Yeah, I like an off-road night run, will be off on one in 30 mins or so in fact.
Hoping the group will be frozen enough to avoid the mud.
I wanted a new head torch with red rear light now that I'm doing more road running at night so I ordered the Alpkit Gamma 3.
Received and tested today and the rear light is not very bright at all, I would liken it to a cheap rear bike light.
Can anyone suggest an alternative? £30 tops, the Onnight 710 from Decathlon looks quite good...EDIT - scratch that, I mistook the battery as being a rear light lol
Their Ironman style chest light has a red rear one on the battery pack.
Might work well with what you've already bought.
A slow trail half marathon today - 22km of this!
Do those chest lights work? Whenever I see someone with one, they look like they are swinging all over the place.
Do those chest lights work? Whenever I see someone with one, they look like they are swinging all over the place.
They're pretty good on the road but not ideal off road. The beam is wide enough to see on quiet roads where you have got a good surface and no sharp corners. I tend to wear a head torch and a chest light running off road, thinking of it like a bar and a helmet light on the bike.
I like them as another way of being seen by cars, nothing beats a good head torch in my opinion.
Having used the Alpkit Gamma 3 a few times now, I think my previous post was a bit unfair, I was thinking solely of the brightness of the rear light on its own but coupled with the wide beam pattern on the front, you are quite noticeable running on the roads. For £20 I am impressed.
Headtorches are always best to be seen by cars, a quick look in the direction of the driver grabs their attention.