Forum menu
Not saying this is the case here but I think a lot of fell runners don't always consider the difference in risks and therefore essential safety equipment between a race and solo running.
A bumbag with super light waterproofs, gloves and hat is plenty for most races as they are usually in the summer, not remote and marshalled to some degree. Out on your own requires more kit but not everyone always does that.
I’ve just started running all the streets in my town. Turns out there are a shit load of culs-de-sac’s
Bit of advice needed for a new runner please. I've just finished the couch to 5k, which has been great. Fitness is up. Strength is up. Both of which are helping on the bike. I've never been much of a runner, but am hoping to keep going, but....my knees are a bit more 'crunchy' than usual. No pain. No injuries that I'm aware of. Before I plough on....am I setting myself up for injuries/arthritis/whatever down the line, or is it a case of 'of it doesn't hurt then go with it' kind of thing?
Finally got round to picking up some trail running shoes (Asics Fujitrabuco as recommended here) that I've been pondering since last lockdown.
Any tips for favourite 10km ish runs in the Lakes to get me started?
Mark88 - where in the Lakes? It's a big spot 😉
Take your pick - I've got time to kill this month...
South is best (I'm in Dalton), but I'm a drive regardless so as long as it's within a reasonable distance I'm happy to explore.
I stay in Bardsea occasionally and have a nice run or ride loop that goes Bardsea - Sunbrick - Baycliff - Scales - Birkrigg Common trig pillar and back down to Bardsea. Some of that might be a bit muddy at the moment though!
A bit further out but over Millom way, the paths round the old barrier and Hodbarrow point are nice. If you want a hilly 12km fell run, park up near Whitbeck and do the obvious loop up onto Black Combe.
You've also got Grizedale not too much further north. Depends how much climbing you want to do, but there's plenty of lower possibilities if you park at High Cross or Moor Top.
Thanks, Black Combe is already on the list.
Hilly as possible and spots I'm unlikely to visit on the bike would be the ideal.
The standard runner dilemma @hazmo.
Most of us would barely run if we stopped for every niggle, it's about working out what is a niggle and what is a problem.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "crunchy", but a few things that may be worth trying are:
A good warm up before you start running. C25K gives you that but many stop doing it as soon you finish the course.
Try to run on soft surfaces for a week or 2 and see if it improves.
Make sure you're knee are warm enough, even if that means wearing tights then you'd prefer not too.
If it persists a trip to a sports physio will confirm if it's something to worry about or something to ignore.
Thank you @lunge for the reply. Like I say, there is no pain, so not a niggle. When I squat down, both knees sound like (and forgive this awful description) somewhere between walking on snow and rustling a carrier bag (they have always been a bit like this, just a bit more so now). Anyway, I just wanted some sort of a sense check...I feel fine and will keep going for now. Tights sound sensible, as does the warm up/down (which I have been doing by walking 5 mins to start and end).
The Kendal Mountain Festival 10km route is good - https://www.openadventure.com/kmf/ and there's a map on there
@hazmo, from that description there may be something in the post, though in fairness, my ankle has done that for years and is still fine. I use the word "niggle" to mean a mild annoyance whilst running that doesn't get worse and is generally ignored, a "problem" is something that require attention.
As I say, just for peace of mind, I'd likely get a physio to look at it if it persists long term.
I'd also be making sure your shoes are well cushioned and offered you some protection.
That looks like a good one to get me started, thanks @pyro . May even end up doing it on the day the race should have been.
My knees sound like crunching cornflakes when I bend them and have done for years. They also click a lot when running. I’m amazed at the amount of different places in the legs that can hurt or make strange noises.
I’ve always got some sort of niggle and i seem to chase it around the body. Last week it was arch and ankle pain in my right foot that strangely morphed into Achilles pain overnight. Fine after a day on feet and my arch hurts a bit after intervals tonight but not too bad. I expect it will be knees of groin next week. I just tend to ignore it and hope it gets bored and goes away, which it usually does, but that perhaps isn’t the best advice for someone new to running.
Happy birthday to me!!!!
Happy birthday @lunge, they look fast 🙂
My knees sound like crunching cornflakes when I bend them and have done for years. They also click a lot when running. I’m amazed at the amount of different places in the legs that can hurt or make strange noises.
My left knee has decided to start playing up, chronic tendonitis I've had for at least 20 years that flares up every now and then. Didn't even do that much on Sunday... Rest, ice and ibuprofen it is then.
@lunge, sorry to point out the obvious, but Nike only seem to have sent you half a pair 😮
P.S. Happy Birthday 🙂
If you dont have niggles you arent training hard enough, its a tightrope.
Big Bren used to say as a long distance runner "you went to bed exhausted and woke up tired" it goes with the territory
I started trail running a few months ago, from nothing. Got up to running 30 minutes off road without stopping and then got a chest infection so done zero exercise for 2.5 weeks. Not looking forward to my first attempt back this afternoon.
One thing I was struggling with was painful upper groin region after running. Sort of following the line of the leg into torso area.
Been enjoying it mostly though and have purchased some Salomon speed cross 5's as it's getting muddy.
Enjoy your runs everyone ... I’m Gutted that I can’t run since I’m currently isolating having had a positive covid test. I Had plans for a nice long run on the NY Moors this weekend 😕
Hoping I’m not a wheezy old man when I get back on it!
Folks, seems as good a place as any to do this, I'm organising a virtual 5k for charity that will take place any time in the whole of December, but is open for entries now.
£5 entry, which my employer GSK matches, so for each entry £10 wings it's way to Save the Children.
Thanks folks!
https://www.entrycentral.com/G5K
and some more details and fun stuff will be posted in the facebook group
PSA - Nike have a sale on, Pegasus 37 in some colours/sizes down to ~£73. If you're a Nike member or join quickly, you can get a further 30% off so a little over £50.
Spotted that Nike sale, I’ve treated myself to a pair of React Milers for under £50, been debating trying them for a while and at that price it’d be rude not too. Had some more Pegs in the basket but decided as I already have 2 pairs of unused Peg 36’s in my cupboard that was a tad excessive.
About a week left until the 3 month mark of recovery with the hip stress fracture. Went for a bike ride (on the road) on Monday, putting a 'bit' more power down standing on the pedals. In the evening/next day, feeling something (not pain) in the hip area. Fine now but I didn't think cycling should be an issue, and the doctor agreed. Not sure I'm healed, grr.
One thing I was struggling with was painful upper groin region after running. Sort of following the line of the leg into torso area.
@Scandal42 - if you sit on the edge of a firm bench, legs over the side, back straight. Try and lift yourself off the bench using your hands either side of your bum. Does that hurt? If so, inguinal hernia. Don't ask me how I know 🙁
Anyone used the Pegasus 37’s? Vaguely tempted at the price but the reviews I’ve seen are a bit meh compared to the 36. I have the React Milers currently which are good for easy, steady runs, nice and spacious in the toe box but don’t feel very responsive.
I tried the 37s and found the material inside the heel so slippy that I had terrible heel lift. No problems with the React Milers that I got instead (or previous Nike).
How do I get the extra member 30% off Nike - I'm a member and signed up a while back but nothing showing? React Milers are £78 for me...
Sign in and then use BRIGHT30 at the checkout. Cheers for your comments about the Peg 37, some reviews allude to this as well.
There's some trail shoes on there too.
Terra kiger and wildhorse. ( And peg trail if you're that size).
I remember someone recommending one of them to me a load of pages back but can't remember which one or which page though.
Cheers for that, just got a pair of air milers for under 50.
Found it.
It was alanf recommended terra kiger. So I've ordered some.
Thanks @alanf. And there's plenty there very reduced if you need to replace yours.
🙂
I think the Peg 37’s is OK. They’re not my favourite shoe but I agree with the heel lift point. Weirdly, I loved them when I first bought them but I’m less sure the more mileage I’ve put in. I am picky about shoes though so I suspect they’ll be fine for many.
I think the 36 was better and can still be picked up in the Nike Outlets. The Vomero isn’t bad either, that’s in the sale too.
Interested to see how the Miler goes, I’m expecting a fairly “functional” high mileage shoe.
No worries @loum, and thanks for the tip, I've bagged a pair in the Red/Black colour for ~£50. I managed to bag my last pair from the outlet for £40 so on a par with those (which are incidentally now flat on the sole at the front.
I would recommend not doing to much tarmac work in them if you want to retain the tread, although to be fair, they are pretty sticky so work quite well on tarmac too (but wear out fast). They are a bit of an allrounder although come unstuck in heavy mud, which I think I mentioned before.
Pair of Vomeros and terra kigers on the way - rude not to at that price... even though I’m hobbling at the minute and can’t run. I thought I was a shoe in for my 1000km goal this year - then a case of Covid, followed by nasty IT band, which should roll straight into my hernia op in a couple of weeks. That’ll take me to Christmas nicely - and only 70km to go! Seriously wondering if I’m going to make it at this rate!!
Milers arrived today, first impressions are exactly as many reviews have said. They feel a bit heavy, they're a bit uninspiring to look at and they feel very soft with little or no pop. In truth, I'm not overly impressed out of the box, but then every review I've read warned to expect that and that I need to run in them to make a decision.
Also bit the bullet on a pair of Terra Kiger's as for £50 is seemed rude not to.
that's 3 new pairs if Nikes ordered in 2 weeks, Mrs Lunge will not be impressed.
First run in the React Milers and very impressed.
Did 15 miles yesterday so was expecting today’s 10 to be a bit of a slog but alas no. They are ugly, and they are not light but they run really well, very comfy and seem perfect for the slower runs we all do.
Very impressive for £50.
@lunge - yep, that mirrors my feeling about the milers. I bought a pair in the last sale and have done a couple of hundred km in them now. Nothing exceptional, ugly but they do seem to just work for slow steady stuff and I found them comfortable out of the box.
I got some Junipers at 34 quid!!!
Jurys out on wether they'll be any good for actual running but i dont need any more slides caked in mud cluttering the porchway than there already is.
I'm a bit more of a plodder than a runner currently but seem prone to pulling the same calf muscle after a while then hobble about for a few months. I only run on the beach or trails and avoid pavement or roads. Do any of you use the compression sock affairs to ward off this issue and does it work for you. Apologies if it's been covered there's a lot of posts to scroll back through.
I only run on the beach or trails and avoid pavement or roads
I'd change that, quick smart. There's a lot of misinformation about running on asphalt, but it's generally flat and has a predictable landing.
The same cannot be said for sand and mud.
I enjoy running on trails and beach, but 90% of my running is on the road.
@marin, there is much debate about calf sleeves as to if they make a difference or if they're snake oil.
I started using them on long runs after some calf issues. I think they help, but there is a real chance that it's all in my head. I do find them useful in the cold to help warm the muscles up. You can pick a pair up at Decathlon for £15 so you can try them for not much outlay, https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/compression-running-sleeves/_/R-p-308493
I truth though, you likely need to work on the cuase of the issue. Calf raises and lowers on a step along with lots of stretching seem to have fixed my ongoing niggle.
Thanks lunge I do lots of stretching but I'll give them a go and cross my fingers as I do lots of stretching. Physical job and lifestyle trying to prolong both.
Nobeer I stopped running road as it was giving my hips loads of grief. The beach is nicer just swap the issue to my calf instead!
I've never used calf-sleeves, but I have a couple of pairs of Injinji knee-length toe socks. I found that the toe socks prevent blisters on my toes on ultras / long training runs particularly if wearing oversize footwear for really cold conditions. It's nice to have the longer socks as extra protection for lower legs when running when it's cold and windy.
Shoe wise, I was waiting to see if I could get some new Salomon trail shoes with a discount, as my old ones had worn out. Picked-up some Scott Supertrac Gore-Tex shoes from Sportsshoes instead and pretty pleased with how they perform. I mainly run offroad, from soft mud, forest tracks covered in brash and mountain tracks so wanted good grip, but some degree of cushioning against stones and sticks etc. Upper is reassuringly secure (unlike some 'trail' shoes where the whole shoe twists around your foot) and pretty good grip - no slipping on the descents particularly.
Fancy pants trainers question - do any of these new, “fast”, carbon midsole shoes have removable / replaceable footbed in them? Just got a pair of the Next% Tempo to try and they’ve got a flat, fixed insole which I know will cripple my high arches. I run in high arch support footbeds in all my shoes and no longer suffer plantar fasciitis.
None of the Nike shoes do @dashed.
I have a feeling the Saucony Endorphin range have a removable insole.
My milers have arrived and dear God; I may put them on the mantle to keep my grandson away from the fire. In keeping with 2020 I am currently borked but looking forward to trying them.
My milers have arrived and dear God; I may put them on the mantle to keep my grandson away from the fire.
Hahaha, the Nike designers definitely had a day off for them didn’t they?
Terra Kigers arrived today.
Feel like a racing flat on the foot. There's not much drop at all and not much cushioning either.
Upper seems quite study, good toe protection and quite a low heel too which I like.
Outsole is nicely aggressive, rubber feels sticky and will easily handle the kind of trails I run. It's much more so than the Pegasus Trail which feels like a more all round shoe.
Related, I've also found out that Nike offer a no questions 30 day (60 at the moment due to Covid/Xmas) return policy. I've exchanged messages with them and they've told me that even if you've run in them and they're covered in mud they'll still honour it. Useful to know.
Still making slow progress through the None-to-run program, up to 1 minute running and 1.5 minute recovery at the moment.
It's actually really refreshing having no ambitions or pride regarding running as I can be that guy plodding about in old hillwalking gear and knackered shoes, being put to shame by overweight 50 year old women (and fair play to them, that's not a criticism), but I can still get home really pleased with myself and feeling like I've had a good workout.
I actually thought I'd be a bit faster/stronger runner than I appear to be, I used to put in some big days in the mountains hiking over multiple tops with camping gear on my back, and I'm reasonably fit on the bike, so I thought the two might combine well for running, but no 😀
At least the ITB thing seems to be controllable, lots of side plank, clams and lateral band walks and/or glute bridges with a band on the knees.
My masseuse also showed me the perfect stretch for the TFL muscle which as well all know is the actual source of IT band issues 😉
Happy newbie so far anyway, let's see if I can build up to actually running a whole 4k by the new year when I'll maybe treat myself to some new shoes...
Guid stuff, cracking day for it. Escaped the laptop for a lovely winter lunchtime 5 miles there, grand.
@lunge - the TKs are 4mm drop I think. They do feel fast and sort of encourage you to push on.
My first pair of TK5's have worn away so much of the sole on the fore foot they are like a racing flat although that doesn't help much in the current slopfest. I think that's partly due to me wearing them loads in the first lockdown as I find them really comfy.
Mine are here and can echo what you said.
Reminded me of an astro turf football boot under foot. In a good way, close to the ground, just enough cushion, and plenty of grip. always liked them for running fast.
But, the upper is a bit short of volume for me, I've wide feet and high insteps, and they're a bit narrow and a bit too flat. Probably going back , but that's cos of my funny feet shape
😭
Unless I wear them round the house for a few days and hope they stretch.
I was glad of the proper mapping on my Garmin this morning as I got disorientated in the fog on Wimbledon Common 😮 Fog is probably even worse in the dark using a head torch as you only really get a little illuminated bubble. Fortunate that it was only a little inadvertent loop through flat woodland rather than anything with more serious consequences.
I've ramped my mileage back up to what was typical for my last couple of marathons, however previously most of those miles were split over 2 commuting runs a day, which are much easier to recover from. I've had to be quite careful now the're virtually all fairly long singles to ensure that the majority are paced nice and easy, and that the hard sessions are well spaced apart. The legs seem to be adapting fairly well to over 2 hours every morning though, even if the 4:20am alarm does mean a bit of a low spell mid-morning...
@turboferret, how many miles are you doing per week? 2 hours every morning at your pace would seem to suggest "lots".
I put in the 100 days exercise challenge thread, but it was stunning running conditions last night, clear sky, no wind and ice cold.
Started out planning a gentle 8 mile run and then bumped into a club mate a mile in so the easy 8 turned into one of the fastest 10 milers I’ve ever run .What’s even better is that it felt effortless.
Absolutely buzzing after that one.
Brilliant Lunge, it's awesome when that happens, feels as if you could run all night.
@lunge I've been aiming for 100 miles a week recently, although not totally beholden to that number. If I'm not feeling it I'll not be hugely concerned about skipping a run, and if I've got a race at the weekend I'll back off a bit during the week to be fresh. I know that this has produced good results in the past without breaking me, so seemed a good target. Most of my runs have been a bit longer this week and I haven't had a day off, so exceeded my 100 miles by a bit
Had I realised I was going to be quite so close to a nice round number I would have run another 340m! This was my biggest week since Feb 2019 where I his 202km once. Total hours running this week was just shy of 15 hours, at a mixture of paces, averaging at 4:30 mins/km, which is much slower than I used to do, I'd normally be about 4:00/km, I've learned to slow down on my slow runs
That's huge TF, huge!
I'm doing between 65 and 70 per week at the moment and that feels more than enough. Slow runs (well, all my runs are slow compared to TF...) are a challenge for me. I have a pace I naturally run at and whilst it's easy enough to up the effort to go quicker, it's much harder to go slow. I have to really focus on keeping the pace down. In truth, I also find it seriously boring.
Oaft.
Last week was the first in ages I've topped my weekly target of 25 miles as well, sounds pathetic now!
@lunge 65-70 is decent and enough for most, I'd say the majority of my fast clubmates clock up under 80 miles a week most of the time. I'm not sure my 4:20 am starts and 100 miles are sustainable long-term, and they may actually be detrimental to my overall performance, time will tell...
I was terrible at slow running for ages, and as you say, it's boring and feels like you take an absolute age to get anywhere. I would suggest that you keep plugging away though, there is a pretty well regarded school of thought which says that easy runs should be really easy, hard runs should be super hard. Stuff in the middle is of minimal benefit, it gets you tired but without increasing performance. The biggest improvement in my results has been not just from increasing volume but adoption a more polarised training philosophy.
@Nobeerinthefridge well done for topping your target 🙂 The last thing I want to do is make anyone feel pathetic, everyone has a different amount invested in running and varying goals. My wife probably thinks that I prioritise running above too many other things, so it's a question of keeping things in perspective. Something I heard on a podcast recently which rang true was
'comparison is the thief of joy'
While it's nice to see what others are doing, it's very easy to compare and feel inadequate 😮
Aye, I know that tf, was just a flippant remark mon ami!
Suoerb though, great going.
I find slow running a lot easier by listening to a podcast, lets me switch off from my run a little, and also run somewhere new, new stuff to look at works too.
Well I finally seem to have got back into it. Its has coincided with getting a newb into mountainbiking round glentress.
Not putting any form of plan in place, just enjoying the running and trying a bit more offroad hills which is handy living in peebles!
Just seen Pete Bland has passed away, sad news, a true legend of the sport. 😔
Bugger! A really nice chap.
Aye, saw Pete passed away from Covid yesterday. Not sure how old he was but sad news.
Think I posted this earlier in the thread but my humble target (very humble compared to some on this thread!!) was 1,00km this year. I did about 650 last year so seemed like a decent number to aim for. It looked like a shoe-in in Oct when I only had about 80kms to go. Then I got Covid. Then my IT band decided to play up out of nowhere and needed 3 weeks rest. And I'm going for a double hernia op on Monday.
Currently got 42.5km to go but a dodgy IT band that if I push too hard will mean I need to rest it for a week. So the plan is to keep nibbling away at it the rest of this week at about 6km a day and hopefully not leave myself too much to squeeze in between Christmas and NY - which is when I'm likely to be able to run again.
I suspect that if I manage it then it'll be a NYE run that tips me over the 1000k!!
Awesome work @dashed. If you're anything like me if the amount you have left on NYE is anything even vaguely achievable you'll do it irrelevant of the pain!
I should hit my revised yearly goal next week (I hit the first earlier in the year), the stretch goal would mean 4 weeks of 100+ mile weeks and I'm not TurboFerret so that seems unlikely!
@dashed - I got ITBS when I upped my mileage too quickly when training for my Bob Graham, from memory I went from 40 miles per week to around 60 in less than a month. It took about two months to get back running and then I limited things to 25-30 miles per week.
100 miles per week is an average of over a half marathon a day! TF - I suspect your lack of rest days will come back to haunt you.
Managed 1000 miles the last couple of years, fancied 1500 this year, but tbh I lost motivation a few times. I'll make over 800, but only due to getting my groove back the last couple of weeks.
In terms of the high mileage that TF is knocking out, I think once your body has adapted to that sort of mileage, even if you do drop back down, it's easy enough to pick it back up to the higher level again without too many problems. The body will remember and reset.
I've been doing on average 50-60 miles a week this year. It was more in Jan - Mar as I was building up to London, but when that got canned it came down to a normal level. I have thrown in a few weeks up to 85ish miles, but it's mainly guesswork as I don't wear a watch or measuring device. I just have a rough idea how far I've run and can tot up a total for the week. Over the year though I've no idea.
On another note, has anyone done Richmond half at Kew gardens?
It's a rescheduled masters event I missed in March this year (Fleet) which is now September 2021 at Richmond.
In terms of the high mileage that TF is knocking out, I think once your body has adapted to that sort of mileage, even if you do drop back down, it’s easy enough to pick it back up to the higher level again without too many problems. The body will remember and reset.
I can imagine that, I definitely feel I run better the more I run, the idea of a long taper before an event would worry me, I'd much rather just slow up and shorten the runs down a few days before.
My body definitely adapts to my, albeit low, mileage. It's much better if I keep it constant at about 20 miles a week. Everything seems to keep ticking along nicely with no injuries and I can flex my mileage around that. I've been up to 50 miles a week at one point during lockdown with no issues, but if I drop back or have a couple of weeks off then I've got to be really careful picking it back up again or I end up with niggles. It pisses me right off as mates can do nowt for a month and then crack out a 15 miler. I'd definitely hurt something if I did that!
No question the body gets used to the work.
I'm best at current levels, 60 or 70 miles per week. More than that and I feel constantly fatigued, less and I feel sluggish. That may be self fulfilling though.
I also think my body likes it when I do a mix of runs. Some on and some off road, some flat, some lumpy, etc.
I always found 60-70 worked for me. It was all at a decent speed though none of it under 7 min milling other than some track warm ups. More than that and I found it difficult to repeat week after week but I think if I had been more rigorous around rest and diet I could have managed more but I think the benefits trail off a bit after around 70. If you are full time etc then the benefits are worth it and I know some runners who have done well off 100+
Its rare to find good standard 5-10k runners doing much less than than around 70 (unless they are doing less but very high quality) even Ovett did around 100mpw. Coe claimed to do less but many think he left out slower miles.
hello all 🙂 I need a real shop to try on stuff because I've been running in cheap shoes but I have no clue what will fit me. Does anyone have a recommendation for a manchester shoe shop ?
Are you purely running when you're doing 60-70 mile weeks or are you also fitting in riding?
How do you structure it? Consistent runs or a long run that accounts for a good portion of that?
The biggest month I've done is 165km (mainly 5-10km with one longer run a week), with some commute rides on top. I can't see how you can fit in more than that (due to time and recovery) whilst doing any proper riding or gym work.
@edhornby - if you sign up to the Nike Club (just an email address required) then free returns. Order a few and send back what you don't need? Same for Sportshoes.com I think.
Not Manchester but there's Running Bear in Alderley Edge who do gait analysis.
There used to be a running shop on Deansgate too which seemed quite good. Runner's Need I think?
Are you purely running when you’re doing 60-70 mile weeks or are you also fitting in riding?
How do you structure it? Consistent runs or a long run that accounts for a good portion of that?
Riding never formed any part of my training and I cant actually recall doing any, I was running pretty much every day and sometimes twice. To run well it is very simple, you only need a handful of components. It was a few year ago but I suppose it was as follows (give or take)
Mon: maybe lunchtime run, only 4 miles but it was pretty hard as I was pushed for time. pm run home from work 12 miles
Tue: track, cant remember the sessions although I did like shortish intervals with a long recovery say 24:x400 with 1 min.
Wed: maybe just 1 run up to 6 ish miles or so
Thur: as Monday
Fri: as Wednesday
Sat: race or anything up to around 10 miles, often did 2 x 5
Sun: Seldom did long runs during this period so around 12, sometimes more.
Reflecting on it I made a few mistakes (probably running almost all of my miles a bit too quick, my runs home were often under 70 mins) although the Track sessions probably added a great deal and I certainly never got the results I should have due to stupid injuries and overtraining at the wrong times and avoiding racing which on reflection meant my times are not reflective. I was very mediocre and that training would be enough for somebody running much quicker than I did.
Up and Running, I'd forgotten about that one cheers MrSheen 🙂
Also thanks Dashed - one to remember next time when I know what shapes fit my feet, at the moment I don't know whether I need wide or slim fittings or whether a neutral fit is the right one (I suspect it is though...)