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In addition to any mentioned; Inside Running Podcast and Bob Graham Sounds
Quite a bit going on today/at the moment:
Damian Hall is close to finishing the Pennine Way - http://live.opentracking.co.uk/damianpennine20/#
Paul Wilson is aiming to be only the second person to do the Lakes 2500' tops in one go - http://live.opentracking.co.uk/62fells20/?n=1#
Beth Pascal is currently on course to beat Jasmin Paris' women's Bob Graham record of 15hrs24mins set in 2016. I don't know if she's a tracker, last I heard she was ahead of schedule at Wasdale this afternoon. She set off at 0500 this morning so has 1hr20mins left as of writing this meaning she should be somewhere past Hindscarth or Robinson.
Looks like Damian did it. Still running at the end. Amazing. I feel a bit battered after 10 miles today. #aretheyhuman?
Oh, and thanks for the podcast recommendations. Lots to listen to!
Anyone have any experience/advice on a fibula stress fracture. A bit of google self diagnosis as I haven’t been able to see a GP (just a telephone consultation), but have had an X-ray (which was clear) and a video consult with a physio, who agreed with my “diagnosis”. The GP didn’t think a stress fracture likely unless I was running ultras or similar.
Anyway, did the damage in April and I can now walk on it with only a bit of soreness, but haven’t dared to try running. Strangely it’s mostly fine on the bike. I’ve been wearing a boot around the house since talking to the physio, which seems to have helped a lot
So when and how to start to try running without damaging it further?
I know I should get along to the physio, but that’s not particularly easy at the moment.
Beth completed in around 14:30, depending on the exact time that's the third or fourth fastest BGR time ever! Currently the fastest three are: Killian Jornet (12:52); Billy Bland (13:53); Rob Jebb (14:30).
Those proper runners doing serious long FKTs put my little London trot into perspective!
For anyone who wants to see a slow mental and physical breakdown while running in a big circle you can do so here 😀
Enjoyed the video, TF. I thought you held it together pretty well considering. Good effort.
So when and how to start to try running without damaging it further?
Usually some time after any pain has subsided. Depends on the severity sometimes they are very small (still painful) but 6 weeks is usually enough. you should have no tenderness however and no reaction to the "tap" test.
Thanks for that, still some tenderness and over 3 months now. I’m reluctant to bother the GP at this stage, they have their hands full here at the moment. It’s still going in the right direction, just painfully slowly. Just have give running more time, I’m not looking forwards to starting all over again though ☹️
Not sure what the “tap” test involves? I can probably make a guess though!
Completed my first Marathon yesterday. 3:57. Slower than I’d hoped but better than I’d feared.
I was on for a nice 3:40, but my quads utterly failed at around 35k and I was struggling to keep my HR under 170 for the last 8k.
Up until about 20k I was running at 5:10-5:15/km at HR135, but after 24k, my HR started to rise to about 160 and at about 30k my quads started to cramp. The last 7k were excruciating!
This was a virtual run of the Bath Two Tunnels Marathon which has been pushed back to 2021 and was completed on the railway path from Westerleigh to Bath and back.
Good work Daffy, that's a good time for a first attempt, particularly as it was solo. Everything breaking at 35k/20 miles is entirely normal, as the saying goes, the second half of a marathon starts at 20 miles. The last 5 or 6 miles of a marathon are rarely pleasant, and if they are you've not gone hard enough for the first 20!
I had what I could consider a perfect Wednesday night yesterday.
Fairly sharp club run
A 1 mile PB in the end of run thrash (5:45 mile)
2 pints of Enville ale
2 samosas that the fella from the cricket club we share a clubhouse with had brough
An hour of watching the cricket nets in the evening sun
Every Wednesday should be spent like that.
Thanks for that, still some tenderness and over 3 months now. I’m reluctant to bother the GP at this stage, they have their hands full here at the moment. It’s still going in the right direction, just painfully slowly. Just have give running more time, I’m not looking forwards to starting all over again though ☹️
Not sure what the “tap” test involves? I can probably make a guess though!
Your guess would be right. if you have a SF then tapping the area with your finger will be very painful. SF are normally so painful that even determined runners stop running before they become a complete fracture so if you take weight off and stop any impact bearing exercise then it is unusual still to be painful 6 weeks later. I would continue to ice if the area is still sore and maybe try jogging and see if it is actually painful to run on. Would recommend doing the usual range of heel lifts over the stairs to build the muscle and even add weight if you can. try to get to 30x20 raises on each leg. Unfortunately your GP wont add much only refer you which will take ages. I had a few many years ago when running about 60-70 mpw and racing they are frustrating
@crewlie, can you get a face-to-face with a physio? I know some in my area, certainly the private ones, have started seeing people in person. You may find the cost of a visit to well worth it.
I know one in the Midlands who is highly regarded by the local running community, I'm sure others on this thread would be able to recommend someone similar in your area.
Thanks @lunge @surfer, I've just checked and the physio I know is now seeing patients. It can be slightly more difficult here because I'm on Arran and there aren't any private physios on the Island, so it's a couple of sometimes unreliable ferry journeys to get there and back. But I think that's what I'll get onto arranging.
It was certainly painful enough that there was no prospect of attempting to run it off, but tapping it with my finger doesn't hurt at all now, pressing in does but less than before. I'll try a gentle run, see how it goes, and get over to a physio.
I have been doing some calf lifts, but not enough it would seem, so they'll be on the menu too.
Seem to have injured my hip, from my google diagnosis I think its the Iliopsoas. Not quite sure of my next steps. Its stopped me from running.
Did I read something on here about theraguns? Can’t seem to find it... missus fancies one for a few niggling muscle issues. I’d never heard of them until last week. Any good and any recommendations?
Really important one here, but can anyone tell me the difference between a jog and a run, so I don't feel a fraud saying "run" on Strava, or selling myself short for calling it a "jog"! I'll google it now anyway.
Anything above walking pace counts as a run in my book!
I have various levels of run:
Thrash - fast, hard, likely shorter than 10k
Run - anything that is slower than a thrash but not as slow as a...
Plod - recovery pace, but still a run and can be long
Jog - short and slow, but still running
Slog - hard, slow and with no reason for that.
According to google, anything below a 10:00/ mile is 'jogging' - 6:12/ km.
Not sure I agree with that, I don't think ultra runners doing 60/70/80k at that pace would be called 'joggers'.
I see joggers as 'casual' runners, they go out for a jog as much to have a natter to their mate as to get fit.
Runners take things a bit more seriously. 😀
Anyway, not much (if any) running for me this week, got 4 solid days on the bike in the west country starting Thursday so have been getting in the MTB miles (and don't want to risk getting an injury from running days before).
My HR on a ride is nice and low now, 125 avg on a gentle spin, and even only 143 average on a fairly hard 25 miles. Was only 4 seconds slower than my PB on a climb (1:13) but crucially, my HR peaked at 187 on my pb (2 years ago), and 166 yesterday!
Nice work those that have run, and recover soon those that are injured.
The “jogging” thing is interesting and after discovering low intensity running I think I do a lot of it now, but it’s still running in my book.
What I’m about to say isn’t gloating or thinking I’m better than anyone, but running finally clicked yesterday. I’m on me hols and went on a jaunt, got lost, scratched, stung, muddy and loved it. There was a road section where I, for the first time ever, forgot I was running. I was just pedalling along at a decent enough pace and it felt just like cycling at an all day pace. Amazing feeling. Was great fun running through the wilds of Oxfordshire too and covered far more ground than walking without the hassle of dragging a bike through hedges. On the hill up to the house I felt great and gave it some beans. On Strava came in at 8 out of 63 which is a nice surprise as didn’t know it was a segment. It’s taken me 4 years to get to this point so all those starting, if I can get to this point through injury and lacking motivation, then anyone can. Get out and run/jog.
Incidentally, slow running started at 6;40/km at HR 149 a couple of months ago I can now maintain around 6:00/km for same HR. Not fast but feels like I can run all day (my legs would go first after a few hours though) and have a good chat.
I'm going to see if I am vaguely competitive over the longer stuff with some proper races. South Downs 50 miler in April which will be my qualifier (assuming I finish of course) for the Thames Path 100 in May.
The course record (5:44) for the SDW50 is held by Tom Evans, his Power of 10 is an impressive read:
2017. 3rd Marathon des Sables. 4th Eiger 101. 4th CCC 2018. 1st TCC (250k). 1st SDW50. 3rd Trail Running World Championships. 1st CCC. 2019. 3rd Western States 100.
Seems like a decent target to aim for 🙂
Its not about speed in my book.
If you are running at 10 min miling but trying to run 9 you are a runner. If you are running at 5:30 but with no aspirations then you are a jogger. It is not a derogatory term it just indicates aspiration.
I will never be a jogger as no matter how slow I now am I always want to go quicker and race those around me.
In what seems to be a bit of a theme, I had to drag myself out the door this evening. Took ages to get my stuff together and get out, really wasn’t feeling like going.
Took 15s off my 5k PB. (23.12), slowly chipping away at it. This time last year I think I was pretty happy with under 26.
Well I think my return to mountain runs was a bit premature, seem to have picked up an achilles ache which is not something I've had before (OK during runs but then damn sore afterwards) any tips other than rest (been avoiding agravating it further, just been sticking to bike for time being, but unsure how long to rest it)
Couple photos Mount Keen from Ballater
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I will never be a jogger as no matter how slow I now am I always want to go quicker and race those around me.
Hah - that's me. I run at a 'bang on just about okay' pace for a >50 yr old (between 8 and 9 min miles depending on distance) but as soon as I get home I am checking against previous runs, seeing where I did well, where I was slower than usual etc. When I was doing parkruns I would be miserable all day if I didn't beat the previous week's time etc.
Has anyone any experience with the MAF training system? It looks like a good way to increase 'base' fitness. Does the MAF test ideally have to be done on a track or do you just repeat the monthly test over the same 'course' ?
I found MAF did not work well at all.
If you were running on a flat athletics track in a warm location under controlled conditions, with constant heart rate (I.e. as maffetone originally trained his runners) I can see it working well, but it does not translate well to running in the real world.
The basic problem I found is that heart rate is not constant, is too difficult to measure accurately, and is affected by too many variables. It is not a reliable indicator of effort at slow speeds.
There is a lot of lag in heart rate readings. Running at a constant rate is difficult without over compensating.
Heart rate monitors only work well when you are sweating. In Scotland this needs a hard effort for large parts of the year. In the winter, Maffetone heart rate is too slow to generate enough sweat unless I deliberately overdress so that I overheat.
In cold conditions, running too slowly can make your heart rate rise as you don't generate enough heat at low efforts. This then puts you above the maffetone limit. You then slow down a bit more to try and reduce heart rate and end up barely moving and shivering.
Drink a cup of coffee for breakfast and your heart rate spikes for a while.
If there is a hill or you have to stop and start say for a junction during a run your heart rate changes.
Running on a flat track at maffetone heart rate is actually quite a quick pace and is proper running. The same heart rates in the real world (which has more accelerations, changes in effort due to terrain etc.) result in a much slower pace and a different gait. Most people who follow maffetone end up running too slow as a result.
Maffetone training was developed for people racing frequently, but maffetone barely mentions that in his book. Racing hard generates a huge training stimulus!
I agree with most of the basic philosophy behind Maffetone and his book is an interesting read. I just found it a very unreliable way of determining training pace.
Is there a Strava STW runners club?
Went out this morning, around 10am, sweating buckets, got a best estimated 5k 24:49, previous was 26:08 two weeks ago.
I'm doing one run a week, just worked my way up to 4 miles running (bracketed by walking). A few days ago I was planning a couple of shorter faster runs instead of one longer run, but I didn't want to this morning. Shins aching a bit after, calves better than last week (been doing calf raises). A couple of shorter/faster runs next week to mix things up perhaps?
Yes, there’s a strava group. Runners of singletrack.
The basic problem I found is that heart rate is not constant, is too difficult to measure accurately, and is affected by too many variables. It is not a reliable indicator of effort at slow speeds.
It also rises gradually over the length of a run. And personally at the start of a run I might find, say, 120BPM hard work - but once warmed up that's a nice easy effort level.
Anyway, here's a photo from yesterday's run. It was a very easy 12km effort with friends up to the tallest peak in the Madrid Autonomous area, Mt. Peñalara. The peak is at 2428m and a particular highlight is the very exposed rocky ridge called Claveles.
eastcoastmike / mogrim - spectacular pics.
It was a very easy 12km effort with friends up to the tallest peak
What?!? 😃 (I'm a beginner currently managing 30 min mostly flat runs).
I got back to running this weekend after taking a week off ... and found that I actually missed it - which is something of a surprise since I've never been much of a runner. Think I'm on the slippery slope now though ... finding myself checking out running gear as well as biking gear!
5000!!
Lol, was just gonna do that 🤣👏
After a good run of fitness i've been battling injury for a couple of months. Think i upped my long runs too much and picked up a pain/weakness in my glute/upper hamstring (both when running and stiffening up after).
I initially tried to keep doing short gentle jogs but it wasn't having it. Ended up taking 3-4 weeks off bar a couple of tiny jogs alongside the little one on his bike.
Tried lots of stretching but that didn't seem to be helping. Last week or so i've been trying to do some leg bridges and some lunges every day.
Did a gentle 5km this morning and while not perfect it seemed a lot better. Fingers crossed i'm on the mend and can get back to it soon.
Any other tips to help rehab the injury? I"ve been a bit reluctant to go to the physio given the lockdown.
I'm not sure stretching will help a hamstring injury tbh, the 4 weeks rest you've given it will possibly have did the trick. Keep it low n slow and if it's still okay, gently up pace and distance would be my approach.
@Rona yeah, 12km with 700m climbing is a very easy day out - remember a lot of that is also fast hiking, it's not all running.
A normal day out would be 25-30km, with maybe 1500m of climbing. I don't do many flat long runs at this time of year, in winter I do more. A weekend long run then would be 20-25km. With no hiking 🙂
Tried lots of stretching but that didn’t seem to be helping
Who knew!
No evidence that stretching helps in the avoidence or recovery from injuries. Scant evidence that it provides any benefit at all. By all means do it and I dont for one minute think it is harmful it is probably just a waste of time.
Any other tips to help rehab the injury?
Start very slowly and I would suggest keeping the terrain very consistent if you can. Hamstrings are often irritiated by "over reaching" or changeable terrain
No evidence that stretching helps in the avoidence or recovery from injuries
True. Maybe my description wasn't great. The injury felt like some sort of tightness eminating from the glute and running down to the upper hamstring. kinda felt like it needed stretching but that didn't help it. hopefully the bridges and rest have done the trick!
(OK during runs but then damn sore afterwards) any tips other than rest (been avoiding agravating it further, just been sticking to bike for time being, but unsure how long to rest it)
Better it is that way around which will allow you to train. The answer to how long is "possibly forever"
Achilles can dog some runners for decades but often they are manageable and pain is your guide. if it is bearable then they are usually safe to train on and they can actually continue to mend even during training. You will have to cut back though and speed work and hills are usually a no go.
I would suggest ice several times a day and I have found that keeping moving as much as you can (ie not keeping it static) is really helpful. unlike many injuries they respond better to constant movement although be careful, if it is a very painful tear or very swollen then take advice also dont take NSAIDS (IANAD)
And not to add more to my incendiary comment above I would actually suggest you dont do any real stretching (if you are tempted to) in my experience they can react quite badly.
Depending on where the pain is (middle or at the insertion point) there are excercises that you can do, easier to google the (the Alfredson protocol is interesting)
Ive had what sounds like the same pain for a good part of this year and nothing made any difference (months of low mileage, low speed, rest, everything) until i started stretching my calves. Turned out i had really tight calves and they were pulling on my hamstrings which is where the pain shows up.
mogrim - wow, this is impressive to me. I have that same feeling I had the day I stumbled into a third year maths class as a first year. By the time I realised my mistake it was too late, I had to sit through it — so, so out of my depth! But I guess we all start at the beginning.
Anyhow — a question if I may (to anyone listening) — I finished couch to 5k some weeks ago and have spent the time since then trying to get comfortable with 30 minutes continuous running. I’m ready to move forwards now and would like to increase my pace (still pretty slow) and also my distance / duration. Which would be best to focus on first? — or both at once (on different runs)? Very grateful for any replies. Thanking you.
@Rona, you can do both, though you obviously won't progress as quickly as if you concentrate on 1.
For pace, try and incorporate some kind of intervals (dirty word, stick with me) into your runs. Don't feel you need to over complicate it, I tend to use lampposts or trees, run hard to the next post, then jog to the next, then run hard, and repeat until you're knackered. You can make is scientific and do it to specific times or distances if you're that way inclined I'm not. If you can access a track they are great for this kind of effort, but the roads and fields are fine as well. You can mix it up, "I'm going to sprint up that hill and jog at the top", that kind of thing. It gets your body used to running that little bit faster.
Distance is as simple as just running a little further than you can now. Pick a pace you can run 5k at (taking a guess that's roughly how far you're doing in 30 mins) and just add an extra but, be that a mile, half mile or KM each week. A little mind game is to find yourself a 5k route and run a mile/km to it, then run the 5k, that puts the extra at the start and not the end.
lunge - thanks very much for taking the time to reply - very much appreciated. Great tips. I do have a "track" nearby but, to be honest, it's so lumpy and bumpy and overgrown with grass and weeds that I don't use it ... however, I could use the grass football pitch for measuring out harder intervals. I like this!
Actually have little idea of what distance I'm covering - I don't run with any tech (yet!). I like the idea of adding a little extra at the start. Very good.
Many thanks - will report back in a few weeks.
@Rona - it goes without saying to not over do it and make any increases slowly over time to avoid injury. if you scan my irregular posts on this thread you'll know I find it very hard to follow my own advice!
djambo - thanks very much for the sound advice - I'll do my best to follow it! Thankfully I've been injury free so far. I'm working my way back through this thread gradually and have noticed the frequent mentions of injury ... that, and shoes!
Good advice from lunge - and if you're interested, that "run hard to the next lamppost then jog" is better known as a "fartlek", which has nothing to do with gas and means "speed work" in Swedish 🙂 If you're doing 30min runs perhaps do 10min warm up, then 10min chasing lampposts and trees, then 10min cool down.
And another upvote for "take your time", it really is very easy to get injured running. The standard advice is to add at most 10% to your total distance / week, and even that strikes me as perhaps overly ambitious when you're new to running. You haven't said how many times you're running / week, but assuming it's 3 times I'd keep two of them at the same length for now, and just add 10% to the longest one. Something like doing a fartlek one day, the second run could be aiming for a constant effort just a bit out of your comfort zone, and the third run would be a longer one (increasing 10%/week) at a comfortable pace.
BTW I did one of the first C25K plans about 20 years ago, and here we are today...
One of my pairs of original VaporFlys lost some rubber from the sole during my Capital Ring run, so I thought I'd have some new tread glued on
I posted this on an ultrarunning group on facebook and garnered some interesting and diverse opinions! Most seemed to think that the upper would completely disintegrate at the first hint of trails, one person suggested this was a good route to a pair of broken ankles 😀
Irrespective of this I'll be wearing them for the South Downs 50 🙂
It was a tough day for those attempting the North Down Way 100 at the weekend - 55% DNF rate with lots of heatstroke, and the winning time about 4 hours slower than normal 😮
Aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh!!!!!
I’m melting!
Yep that sdw 100 looked brutal.
Interesting shoes TF. Be interesting to see how they fair.
Well done all if you are getting out. I can barely exist in this heat. Meant to be a return to club session tonight at 7. 31 degrees! Not sure I can do it. Haven’t run since Thursday.
Where did you get them done @turboferret?
I've had a similar idea and not done anything about it, albeit with a pair of worn out Pegasus.
@turboferret - they look ace. Another for where did you get them re-soled?
Most of my shoes seem to wear out rubber long before the uppers are shot, could be a good cost saver and also more environmentally friendly.
I find the concept of needing ankle support for going slightly off road / trail an odd concept. I reckon my ankles are far stringer now from running and can easily withstand minor tweeks which would have had me hobbling for weeks when I used to play football. I reckon they will be fine for trails. You may have even invented a new shoe altogether - Vaporfly TR. Good work...
I disagree, they look pretty poor for trail running: there's no toe protection and that open cuff and loose tongue are going to let in so much crap it's not funny. They might be OK if you stick to muddy grass type trails, but round here they'd be awful.
mogrim - thanks very much for taking the time to pass on all this info and advice - all very helpful indeed, and much appreciated.
Yes, three times a week - and your suggested strategies - both for a single fartlek type run, and for the content of each of the runs in a week - sound ideal for me. I can take this framework and make it suit, and it will certainly make it more interesting to have a different focus for each run.
BTW I did one of the first C25K plans about 20 years ago, and here we are today…
Very reassuring.
Walking this morning rather than running - there’s a narrow-ish path, just 50 yards or so on my route so, in these crazy times, I’ve been running it to reduce the chance of meeting anyone on it. Inspired by the ideas here, I picked up the pace this morning and ran much harder than usual - loved it - invigorating - felt like a kid - although wellies perhaps not the ideal footwear! Looking forward to trying this ‘chasing lampposts and trees’ out on a run tomorrow.
I had these resoled at Cheshire Shoe Repairs, although I'm sure loads of places could do so. Very simple, sent them off, £44 bank transfer and they arrived back in around a week. Clearly they aren't going to be perfect for all conditions and I'm not trying to say they are. However if you've got a pair of super fast road shoes with amazing foam and carbon, it seems a shame to bin them when the small bits of wearing sole fall off.
I think I might have a slightly less aggressive sole glued onto my other knackered pair
Good morning STW runners, been a while since I posted in here, in fact, it was probably before lockdown. It's been a funny few months running wise, doing 95% of my runs along a canal meant elevation was basically zero, which given i'm a hill runner I thought would be a problem. However, i've been injury free, have been running well, and for the most part, enjoying it.
First trip to the hills was end of June with a ride out and then run up Dumgoyne (8 miles 2,000ft), expected to feel terrible, but was actually ok on the hills. Have then been getting out to the hills most weeks, and since there are no races, was eyeing up longer days. Back at the start of June I ran all the Mamores with a few mates, 10 munros in total, over 22 miles and 11,000ft of climbing. A superb day, one of the best i'd had in a while and to be back in the hills was excellent!
At the start of the year i'd put a Tranter round in my diary, and after the trip to the Mamores it felt like I should probably just give this a go, despite the lack of hills this year. So, last weekend myself and two mates headed up from Glasgow on Friday, and set off at 5am Saturday morning running anti clockwise direction. The weather was amazing, around 10 degrees to start with, and a bit of cloud, but the forecast was for it to get really warm.
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Heading up Mullach nan Chaorainn.
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West from Stob Ban
There are a few out and back sections on the Mamores, but for the most part there isn't much height drop between the munros, until you get to the final two.
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Towards Binnein Beag
This descent wasn't great, and the climb up Binnein Beag in hindsight was probably the wrong line, too much scree and boulders.
We reach Sgurr Eilde Mor in 7:20, which was around our expected time, perhaps 10 mins slower than hoped.
Now time to drop down to 1100ft and head to Stob Ban and the Grey Corries, this was a really slog, and we were both feeling pretty tired at this point, it was also very hot, potentially too hot. The Grey Corries are amazing, probably my favorite running route, and allowed us to pick up a bit of speed before the monster Aonachs.
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Spinks Ridge, and the climb upto Aonach Beag. This was slow.
Descents were fairly slow now, and any climb was a walk, which we were fine with. We'd lost some more time descending and then climbing upto CMD, we were both ready to finish now, having been on the move for 14 hours. The view however was all worth it.
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I love CMD, it was so dry and grippy that I flew along this, trudged up the final climb to the Ben summit, which was amazing, and given it was just after 8pm, quite busy. The descent wasn't nice, my feet were in bits, and it took us an hour to get down.
Touched the hostel sign at 40 miles, 20,000ft of climbing and 16:25 total time. This made Finlay Wild's 9 hour record even more amazing. Feet still hurt today...
Fantastic day out Will! I've still never done a Tranter, might do it later in the year when I've got a bit of fitness back. Looking at your photo of the climb up onto the Aonachs that doesn't look like Spinks' Ridge but the gully many used before Spinks' Ridge became the norm. My Ramsay Round nearly ended after less than 3 hrs in that gully!
Nice one. The Tranter was one I always fancied doing but complete lack of running of any sort in the last few years probably means it'll be a two day walk these days.
I remember my first time helping out on a Ramsay: walked in from Corrour Station having been told I'd be met by another support team at Loch Eilde Mor. We met at 11pm! I then waited on the col between Binnein Beag and Binnein Mor until about 3am when lights appeared on Sgurr Eilde Mor and the contenders turned up. It's my shot on the cover of the Harvey's Ramsay map from that morning - still need to pester Charlie for my copy 😊
Metadata shows that shot was taken at 0430!
A while later we get to another support point:
The guy sat down in the bivy bag looks at me and says: "We thought you were dead!". I used to work with him and after I'd left another Lakes climber with the same name was killed in Borrowdale and they'd thought it was me. His next sentence was: "You're looking well!"
still need to pester Charlie for my copy
Charlie is an absolute legend. He always turns up to spectate at the Ben race and last year I saw him whilst warming up. On an impulse I put out my hand to shake and said 'I'm number 93 on your list!' we had a lovely wee chat about the round and when I ran past in the race he saw me and shouted out 'Come on number 93!'. Totally made my day.
Edit: Getting deja vu now, think I might have told that story on here before!
Spin, you're right re Spinks Ridge, think that goes upto the right.
Whitestone, a superb photo. Just as we finished there was two Ramsay finishers, and we knew of at least another two out doing a Ramsay (they didn't finish unfortunately)
Next year i'll give a Ramsay a crack, need to focus on time on my feet more than anything.
Shin Splints! Any tips on avoidance? I am very susceptible to shin splints. I can even get them from walking which has put me off running for years. Finally took the plunge during lockdown and can now run a 5k in about 25mins. Any further than this and I can feel the twinges start (although I have managed an 8k once) but it’s not came to anything yet. I use running shoes and try and run 3 times p/w although I may rest a bit this week as lower legs are sore after yesterday’s run. I’m loving running as it’s improved my fitness for mtb hugely so any advice is greatly appreciated.
There’s no real secret to avoiding them I don’t think. Things that have worked for people I know are:
Take it slow and build up pace/mileage gradually
Stretch well after each run
Massage affected area
Calf sleeves (possibly snake oil, but some swear by them and they’re cheap enough to try out)
Shinsplints (its a term that covers lots of symptoms) tends to be associated with novice runners trying to build mileage too quickly and before their muscles have adapted to the stress and impact.
The only thing I would suggest is to ease back on the mileage, even though you are keen to build it. Ice the painful area (I find this is effective) and take NSAIDs for a bit.
Patience is the key.
Thanks folks. I’ve found, over the years, I’m very susceptible to them whether through walking or attempting to run. I’ll give stretching a try. Any tips on relevant stretches.
Those @turboferret shoes are slightly melting my mind! I like the Cheshire Shoe Repairs people, nice little family operation. Used them for climbing shoes years ago when I worked around the corner. Back climbing again and latest resole is doing well as ‘second favourite shoe’.
Back from a week in the Lakes and had an interesting revelation. Not been feeling quite right recently, often setting off for a run the inner voices are going... ‘something wrong with fitness’, ‘breathing not working properly’, ‘think I’ve had Covid’. None of this on holiday runs, including a fairly grim jaunt up Skiddaw in poor weather. Still an ok time. Think I’ve just get a bit stale of local runs and need more adventures. Must break out of local trails, solo rut!
@jodafett I was taught an excellent stretch by the XC captain while at uni for shinsplints. Stand with your feet shoulder width apart and parallel. Lift the inside of your feet as much as possible putting all your weight on the outside edge. Hold for ~30s seconds or so, and you're good to go. Do this before every run. This completely eradicated my shinsplints, hopefully it can do the same for you.
I've just entered a race!
Nothing interesting bar the fact that it'll be my first competitive run since February. it's a relatively small half marathon in 2 weeks time so I'm hoping it'll go ahead.
Fingers crossed.
As surfer said 'shinsplints' covers quite a few muscles injuries in the lower leg. I had a recurring anterior tiba strain which both times came from overuse. Annoyingly they need large amounts of rest to heal, although cycling is fine. If your serious, see a decent physio, one I went to see identified weaknesses which caused imbalance in strength in my hips and muscles around that area and gave me exercises to address this which has so far stopped it reoccurring but are ones I continue to do. If they start talking about ultrasound therapy find someone else.
I've done a fair bit of lurking on this thread, but don't think i've actually said what my running goals are.
I have my first marathon coming up in october, might be slighty bricking it!
Doing the coniston marathon on 4th oct and just aiming to finish, not looking for time other than beat the cutoff running alongside one of my closest friends.
I've really enjoyed moving my running over to trail/non-tarmac running over the last year or so. I've slowed down a bit on the odd occasion i do run road, down from <50min 10km to around 55 min but my joints feel so much better. I've had a number of leg injuries, including dislocating a foot playing rugby years ago, so my aim is to preserve my ability to run as long as i can. But being a bit of an idiot i'm also eyeing up what i can challenge myself to do over the next few years and getting an ultra on my palmares is appealing....
@jodafett I'm similar that I re-started running during lockdown after a few abandoned efforts in the past. What worked for me was running less frequently, once a week, and doing 5k each time. I started walking most of it working to running most, to now only walking to & from where I run the 5k. I've just increased the frequency to one run every 5 days to see how I get on.
I remembered a couple of kneeling stretches from yoga. The first I find prepares my feet for the second, while the 1st verges on uncomfortable, the 2nd my feet will sometimes just refuse to do.
1) Kneel on toes, ie ankles up/feet vertical and toes bent & tucked beneath (fun!)
2) Kneel with feet extended toes pointing behind so tops of foot against floor.
Explained in more detail with notes etc here:
https://www.sensational-yoga-poses.com/toe-and-ankle-stretches.html
I usually do them for 20s or 30s.
I've also been doing ankle rotations in both directions. And another yoga pose, laying on back one leg down, the other leg bent to chest with hands wrapped around thigh and then attempt to straighten it upwards pushing through ankle. A few ankle rotations at this point feels good, but I think overall this pose is more the back of the leg.
Also, when I remember, the standing on outside of foot stretch turboferret mentioned
Is anyone following John Kelly's 2nd attempt at his Grand Round? Paddy Buckley, Bob Graham then Ramsay rounds, each in under 24 hours, and cycling between them. He had rather poor weather on his first attempt which was I think last year, and didn't complete. He started at 11am on Sunday, Paddy Buckley done, and is halfway round the Lake District. Goal is to finish at Glen Nevis Youth Hostel by 3:25am on Friday.
Funnily enough I just came on to post that. Got a message from a mate asking if I could do a leg of the RR but I'm working. Whilst I'd love to have helped out the forecast is grim for the time he's scheduled for the RR!
Cheers for the stretching tips folks. Feeling some twinges on the last couple of runs so a few walks and loads of stretching for the next week or two I think!
Day 150 of the streak ticked off today, every days since lockdown began.
I only started as it was an excuse to avoid the daily briefing. 200 is definitely on!
I’m sure you’ll reap major benefits from this
Hope so, it'd be nice to test my legs in a race or 2...
It's strange how the progress is never linear though. Ran Friday and did 10k at 8:30 mins/mile and felt appalling, couldn't get my heart-rate up, no pace at all, just crap. Then went out the next day with a few fellas from the club, 7:15's (quite sharp for me) for 10 miles and it felt easy, I could have ran forever at that pace.
Running is weird.
Running is weird.
As I’m on hols with no bike training I’ve been asked to run on Tue/Weds/Thur mornings for 30 mins each to maintain fitness. I’m not a runner, and boy do I feel weird. First 10 mins felt hard and short of breath and panicked, the rest suddenly felt easier but slow old man-ish, but now my legs are very stiff. I also caught a look at my shadow this morning with my arms moving in a typical dad dance kind of way, how embarrassing.
I saw Lunge mention in another thread that running complements cycling a fair bit, so let’s hope so!
Just popping in to say another thanks for help received here from lunge, djambo and mogrim. Finished my first week of running with that advice, and this is how it went …
I loved the interval session. I spent the middle 10 minutes of the run, as suggested, doing the harder efforts - using telegraph poles as a guide, maybe 20-30 seconds each time - and then reverted to my normal plodding pace for recovery until my vital signs felt back to normal for the run, ready for the next go. I think I managed eight efforts in all - each successive effort becoming somewhat less impressive than the last! The final 10 minutes home afterwards definitely felt harder than usual - but perhaps that was partly because of the noticeably higher humidity that morning too. Anyhow - It was fun. 😃
Next time out I did a normal run (will try to pick up the pace a little as I go along), and in the third run of the week I added an extra 2 min to my 30 minute run - so, a bit less than 10 % - and that was fine - I noticed it, but it didn't make me want to fall to my knees!
The great thing was - I felt like I was able to make a little progress - but at a pace which seems both doable, and sustainable for me going forwards. Thanks again for all input - much appreciated.
I also caught a look at my shadow this morning with my arms moving in a typical dad dance kind of way, how embarrassing.
Me too 😊. I try not to look!