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I did the planned 20km run/hike up a local mountain with my mate, it's the first time he's been up a mountain since lockdown started 3 months ago, and he suffered like a dog on the downhills 🙂
And it was my turn to suffer this morning - I did a 100km (road) bike ride yesterday, with another mountain in the middle of it, and boy could I feel it this morning!
Beaten up in the faster group at an unofficial club run once again and I absolutely loved it.
With no races at the moment it’s soooo good to have a chance to push myself a bit.
Any new runners out there I would urge you to join your local club when they open up again. They are very friendly, great fun and give you a chance to push your limits.
@mark88 that's a kind offer, but I'd like to try it unsupported. There are different sets of times listed on the FKT site, unsupported (carrying own supplies) self-supported (stopping at shops etc to restock) and supported (assistance on route). A friend of mine has done the Jubilee Greenway self-supported, he stopped for a McDonalds breakfast and a Starbucks, but I like the sound of doing it solo. To be honest, I struggle to get much in the way of fluids in during a hard run, and I'll be early so it'll be pretty cool, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue. I say this now in total ignorance!
My timing isn't necessarily particularly sociable either:
km Time Landmark
0 04:20 Buckingham Palace
1 04:23 Hyde Park Corner
2 04:27 Carriage Drive
3 04:31 Kensington Palace
4 04:35 Bayswater Road
5 04:38 Paddington Station
6 04:42 Little Venice
7 04:46 Lisson Grove
8 04:50 St Johns Wood
9 04:53 London Zoo
10 04:57 Camden Lock
11 05:01 St Pancras
12 05:05 Kings Cross
13 05:08 Chapel Market
14 05:12 Wharf Road
15 05:16 De Beauvoir Town
16 05:20 Hackney
17 05:23 Cambridge Heath Road
18 05:27 Hertford Union Canal Start
19 05:31 Victoria Park
20 05:35 Entrance to Greenway
21 05:38 Pudding Mill Lane
22 05:42 Abbey Mills Pumping Station
23 05:46 Upper Road
24 05:50 Barking Road
25 05:53 Newham Hospital
26 05:57 Viking Gardens
27 06:01 Beckton Park
28 06:05 New Beckton Park
29 06:08 University of East London
30 06:12 Fishguard Way
31 06:16 Royal Victoria Gardens
32 06:20 Woolwich Foot Tunnel South
33 06:23 The Reach Climbing Wall
34 06:27 Docklands GoKarting
35 06:31 Aggregate Recycling Plant
36 06:35 Greenwich Ecology Park
37 06:38 O2 Arena
38 06:42 North Greenwich
39 06:46 Essex Water
40 06:50 Greenwich Power Station
41 06:53 Cutty Sark
42 06:57 Glaisher Street
43 07:01 Sayes Court Park
44 07:05 Pepys Park
45 07:08 Surrey Quays
46 07:12 Durand's Wharf
47 07:16 Sovereign Crescent
48 07:20 Rotherhithe Street Bridge
49 07:23 Kings Stairs Gardens
50 07:27 Bermondsey Wall West
51 07:31 City Hall
52 07:35 Clink Street
53 07:38 Blackfriars Bridge
54 07:42 Jubilee Bridge
55 07:46 Lambeth Palace
56 07:50 Parliament
57 07:53 Horseguard Parade
58 07:57 Buckingham Palace
So I'm planning on increasing my running mileage over the next weeks and months, would like to get to the stage where I'm running 30-35k a week. Doing that on my current 3/4 runs a week, plus 1 MTB ride is fairly easy - enough days free for rest days.
However, I'd like to start doing some local MTB rides of an hour or 2, as there's some nice trails about 7 miles away. Would like to do this couple of times a week at least, plus maybe one other MTB ride further away by car, so 3-4 MTB rides a week.
Now, 4 MTB rides a week, plus 3/4 runs per week, well that seems like a recipe for injury!
Those who ride and run a lot, how do you do it? Would doing 2 or 3 longer runs be better than doing 3 or 4 shorter runs? Those sort of runs I'd need a rest day after, although the MTB rides wouldn't be a big one - maybe 1000ft climbing and 20 miles max.
Running was meant to be just a way to keep my fitness up over winter when I found it hard to get out on the bike, but here I am 6 months later trying to not make it my primary exercise!
It's a dilemma I wrestle with ta11pau1 as I just don't seem to have the time - or maybe to be brutally honest - to commit to both running and cycling as I'd like. So it's one or the other for me and I usually get out 4-5 times a week. In the winter its more running dominated with more cycling in the summer. I reckon commuting - either running or cycling - would help greatly, but it's not an option for me.
Yeah I suppose it'll depend on the week, good weeks like we've had with dry weather I might prioritise the cycling, with a run or 2. Crap weather I can bang out the miles running.
Before I had 3-4 weeks off running I was had done a couple of 10-11k runs, I'll get back to there but my it's gonna take my legs a few weeks to get used to it again, I suppose as long as I'm running one or two times a week I won't have the 'reset' that I've just had.
90 mins on the bike is definitely much easier than 45 mins running, and tbh after a normal 6.5k run like today I don't feel like (and my garmin backs this up) I need a rest day the next day, so I'll probably be OK running/riding 5/6 days a week total with a day or 2 rest.
Those who ride and run a lot, how do you do it? Would doing 2 or 3 longer runs be better than doing 3 or 4 shorter runs? Those sort of runs I’d need a rest day after, although the MTB rides wouldn’t be a big one – maybe 1000ft climbing and 20 miles max.
I wouldn't say I'm an example of someone doing big miles on foot or by bike tbh, but I find they complement each other fairly well.
Try and up your miles a bit, even if you have to slow down, I try to stay above 5 miles, ideally 7 or 8, and will happily do that in the morning, then go to my local trails in the evening, maybe 15 miles and 1200' of climbing.
Sometimes my legs feel heavy from running, but spinning them out on the bike helps, and after a few miles they feel good again.
As @Nobeerinthefridge says, to avoid injury you just need to build up the volume slowly, trust me I know I've been there. Its perfectly doable, I've managed to build up from 30km to 75km run weeks now. This is then on top of a couple of gravel rides a week usually 50-100 km. Most run programs tend to have you do one slower long run a week. So perhaps look at getting that into your routine somewhere.
I think the key is to let your body adapt to the new stress your planning on putting on it. Do less intense/shorter runs and combine it with the cycling and see how it goes. Don't push things too quickly, let your body adapt and then if you feel like it increase intensity or distance as you see fit. Build it up slowly.
I've dropped-off my running past week or so, picked-up an injury of sorts right at the top of my right hip, feels like I've bashed it against it something but happended near the end of my last run. Hopefully chiropractor on Friday will have some thoughts as I'm missing it.
Doing a run in the morning then bike in the evening is usually fine, although obviously your pace on the bike might suffer a bit. The other way round is tougher. (I'm ignoring triathlon brick workouts as they're a bit more specialist).
At the moment I'm doing something like:
Running: Mon (slow/recovery)-Wed (intervals) -Fri (tempo/hills) -Sat (long, usually mountain)
Riding: Tue - Thur - Sunday (long ride)
If I wanted to add another ride in it would probably be an easy recovery ride, probably on the Friday.
Most of my runs are 'slow' now tbh, around 6:00 - 6:20 /km - I'm happy at 5:30 /km on road and am pushing 5:05 /km for 5k as my fastest pace. I'd rather focus on building the length of my runs than speed - getting comfortable with 10-15k runs is a target.
I think just building up slowly on both counts is the way to go 🙂 If I was to do a run and ride on the same day it'd be a few hours apart so might be pushing it a bit. 4pm run and 8pm ride...
Interesting reading all.
Had a terrible run today and had some bizarre heart rate data. I did a hard interval session yesterday of 3 minutes zone 4/5, 2 minutes recovery x 5 which went well, but I was tired as expected. Did the speed bit between 3:50/km and 4:20/km as gradient involved.
Today was a 40 minutes zone 2 run. The legs felt a bit heavy, as expected, but my heart rate reading suddenly jumped from 145 to 165+ on a downhill after 10 minutes and stayed there for the rest of the run. I certainly didn’t feel like I was pushing my max heart rate from perceived effort as I was running slowly, but could this really have happened? Is this a sign of overtraining or just a dodgy hrm?
I didn’t feel great during the run and got slower trying to keep breathing in check, legs were heavy and feel shattered now. Any ideas welcome! Thanks.
Here is Strava link: https://strava.app.link/b7RgmQMpo7
If you're using Strava might be worth keeping an eye on https://intervals.icu/ to keep track of the total "load" and building that up slowly, does a reasonable job giving a number of how "hard" a workout is, bearing in mind distance and speed etc.
Though does seem to count bike rides higher than runs which doesn't feel quite right to me, a run that felt hard scoring less than an easy ride.
Any one else having difficulty finding trainers? I wanted some new Nikes and struggling to find much in my size - guessing it’s the lockdown effect...
@dashed, there’s new Nike shoes out soon that may also explain the shortages. The new Pegasus came out last week, and there’s a few other models imminent too.
Cool - thanks. I’ll hold fire on new shoes
Well I managed a 10 min jog a min walk a 10 min jog a 1 min walk then a 15 min jog, my covid recovery has really come on this week , very pleased to be getting somewhere now
Well done firestarter, best of luck sir.
Dashed - it's murder, sportsshoes has hardly anything in my size, not just bikes that have been flying off the shelves!
So my 'local' trails mean 16 miles and 1800ft of climbing... haha.
I'll try and keep these to a couple of times a week max while also trying to run 15-20k and building this up. I think 24hrs or so rest from each of these will be fine.
30-40 miles of mtb and 20k running seems a good place to start. Sorry for the mixed units, I wish strava would let you see runs in km and rides in miles!
Cheers nobeer it's a long way from my ultra runs but it's a start
I always tend to run more in the winter time (I do struggle keeping a bike clean after every ride), but this year I alternate run / ride . not training for anything specific just trying to slowly build up the running miles 11.5miles yesterday. slow and steady and enjoy the journey.. currently running inov8 terra ultra (zero drop) and love them.
I do find the running helps to stabilise my knee muscles and you defo get more bang for the buck time wise. but a sweet singletrack is pure bliss.
would love an ultra at some point (never done a marathon ) maybe the Iceland Ultra. happy running riding
Amazing and perplexing machine, the human body. After feeling awful on Wednesday morning on a slow run, with an elevated heart rate and feeling ill, I rested and went out last night to meet some club mates (at a distance) to do a recce of the 10K course at Nonsuch for a couple of weeks time. I was offered a lift there but decided to run the 5K there intending on doing one lap of 4.5Km then run home.
Running at a conversational pace I felt good so did the 10K, then ran home, did a loop to make it 21.5Km and have bagged my first half marathon and longest run by 4km, all the while feeling my body was working well, being able to keep the heart rate in zone two while still running at a steady 6min/km. Not fast, but that's not the point, it felt easy and relaxed. I feel the plan is coming together!
Good job @root-n-5th, always nice to set a new personal best 🙂
I did hill repeats this morning and as usual the hardest bit was getting out of bed, once I was up and out I enjoyed it. Prior to WFH I hardly ever went running first thing, and it's a nice way to start the day. Now busy making plans for tomorrow, with presumably another mountain to climb somewhere.
Well done root!
Minor feel good Friday for me too. Similar to root, last few runs have felt real hard work, even walked some of the hillier bits, but today after a late night and wine last night I've ran my quickest ever 5k (24m50s). Wasn't even going to bother going out as I felt tired and crap.
Excellent! I’ve had a few parkrun pbs after late nights and beer. Must be all those carbs and maybe the anaesthetic qualities.
Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh!!!!!!
Toes hurting again. I’m cursed, cursed I tell you. The toe box in these new shoes couldn’t be any bigger. I give up, I might get the loppers out later.
Race to the stones has gone virtual this year, with free entry and do a sponsorship bit for charity. Log your miles for a week and challenge yourself.
Usually a 100k ultra.
https://www.racetothestones.com/virtual-challenge/
@loum Might try that, cheers.
Any headphone recommendations for someone whose ears don’t confirm to normality - things don’t stay in them?
Thanks.
Any headphone recommendations for someone whose ears don’t confirm to normality – things don’t stay in them?
Jabra Elite 75t, they fit securely and work well.
Any headphone recommendations for someone whose ears don’t confirm to normality – things don’t stay in them?
I'd look for something with hooks over the ears.
Check the reviews on Scarbir. He likes these Mpow Flame Pro, I'm going to buy some soon.
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/mpow-flame-pro-review
In ear buds never work for me, so I ended up with these at Christmas
Magnetic hooks over ears and work very well.
Bought myself a pair of running shoes, so me and the OH could do a sport together and be reasonably equal.
We did a few lengths of the local football field alternating each length with a walk. This was the middle of last week and my legs are still ruined.
A couple of gentle rides on Zwift have helped but looks my legs are a bit to used to cycling at the mo.
It's probably the first time I've run in 30 years. My left knee was particularly unhappy with the experience.
This pandemic has illustrated something I already knew: that I'm not really a runner, I'm a guy who likes running in the mountains. Take away the mountains and I've got zero interest in the running bit! Still,it's re-kindled my love of mountain biking and when I can get back to the mountains I'll get back to the running.
Did my first non stop 5km since getting covid, 2 months to the day from my positive test, still some pain in my right lung but managed to push til the end and did it in a bit under 25mins so very pleased with my progress
Any headphone recommendations for someone whose ears don’t confirm to normality – things don’t stay in them?
Aftershokz bone conduction type headphones fit really securely and work really well for running. You will sacrifice a little bit of bass and audio quality but they have got much better with recent models. You gain a lot more awareness of your surroundings as there is nothing blocking the ear which is a major advantage. I would not go back to normal headphones for running or cycling.
Only annoying thing is the controls on the models with hands free option. Pressing the main button once pauses or plays music. Pressing twice skips to the next track. But if nothing is playing, then accidentally pressing the button twice will automatically phone the most recent caller.
Nice one firestarter.
Great to see someone coming out the other side like that.
Under 25 is always a good time in my book.
Another vote for Aftershokz here, I've used them exclusively for a few years now, very convenient for podcasts, music and calls, although the accidental redial of the last number can be embarrassing...
I had a run at the weekend, in fact my longest one ever. As mentioned a couple of pages back I was having a crack at the Jubilee Greenway FKT. All went pretty well 🙂
3am alarm, out the door at 3:30 to cycle down to Victoria and lock my bike. Bit of a warm-up jog and stashed a water bottle and gilet behind some railings in Buckingham Gate, ready to start at 4:18. Tediously long unedited video below
I didn't manage to knock off an hour from the previous time, only 59 minutes 😀 I'm sure there are plenty of people who could improve on my time, but I wanted to go relatively hard so that it wouldn't necessarily be a formality for anyone else to do so. At the same time I was unsupported, and needed to cycle home, so kept it fairly under control in the closing stages when it was starting to feel tough. Felt remarkably fresh afterwards and yesterday, much better than I have after a fast London marathon, so the lack of a sprint at the end and a gentle cycle afterwards probably made a difference.
Amazing effort TF!!
Only 59 minutes? Is disappointed!
Seriously though - amazing effort, great work.
@turboferret Amazing run! Might have a crack when the heatwave is over. 😉
Also, sent you PM about the 10k. What is best way to get in contact?
All, thanks for headphone advice. Have ordered some aftershokz from northern runner.
London parks half marathon been delayed till April 2021, was gonna be my first half since 2006 & had just completed couch to 5k program as a means of getting fit without injury, looks like I'll have to keep it up through the winter 😬
10 x 500 at the track. A sweaty affair!
2 incident filled runs in 12 hours...first evening run for ages, I wanted to get out when it was still warm yesterday, but it had cooled off significantly. I think it may have been a bit too soon after a fairly large dinner and a beer, and a fart proved not to by purely gaseous :O
This was a very welcome spot on the way home and was mercifully unlocked
This morning, a tight left hand corner and an unspotted wet manhole cover resulted in this
Hip and elbow impact and road rash to thigh although feels fine a few hours later
Assholes and elbows, to quote Apone.
Had a pleasant run tonight after dinner and two Friday cocktails. Wouldn’t normally think about running them but it was on my training calendar so felt I had to. Very easy pace with slightly faster finish, and last proper run before 10k virtual race on Sunday, which I have no idea how I will get on. Only one way to find out...
Off for a half tomorrow with a club mate of similar pace and similar competitive nature.
I fear it will turn into a tear-up and I can’t bloody wait!
Mrs Lunge is not happy this morning. Being woken up at 8am by a bang at the door is bad enough, that it was the postman delivering 3 new pairs of shoes for me made it even worse. Apparently I have plenty of pairs already...
Anyway, the new Pegasus look good...
Managed my first run of the week last night, went out on Saturday on the MTB and got a couple of midge/gnat bites on my left calve which inflamed right up to the point of barely being able to stand on that leg! took a couple of days for that to go down, then my ankle on the same leg swelled up, bites/heat related. And of course there's no way I was going to chose to run in the 30 degree heat down here, I sweat enough as it is! Should still be able to hit my 15k target this week though.
Well I seem to be getting better.
I posted here a couple of months ago seeking advice. I'm reasonably fit, but have always struggled with running. A brisk 25min 5km leaving me crippled for days.
I have gradually improved things. Started off with 2km laps of the local woods, with some rowing machione and turbo trainer.
Right now, I'm stuck in a hotel where I have to isolate for 2 weeks with the rest of the crew from the ship. We have a decent outdoor space at our disposal, half car park, half lumpy grass. 3 laps is about 1km.
I'm doing 3 x 2km intervals once or twice a day. 6 laps run (=2km), one lap walked, a bit of a stretch then start again.
No gym sadly, so body weight exercises in the room also.
Certainly feeling the impact, a bit of underlying stiffness, but nothing that stops me. I can do each of the 2km int's in about 11mins, and I feel it would be faster on a less varied surface with fewer corners!
I hope that by the end of my isolation I'll be up to doing longer interval distances, and with a bit more speed.
Once I'm back on the ship it's back to the running machines.
Good stuff all, keep it up.
Sutton Runners Virtual 10k today. Undulating course but good conditions.
Many thanks to @turboferret for pacing me around the course. I was going for a sub-45 as I felt it was in me, but wasn’t sure after a lack of sleep and a bit of asthma this morning, and knew I would have to dig very deep. Amazing pacing from a true master - look at these splits. I’d never have been so consistent solo:
1, 4:14, -6 elevation.
2. 4:20, 5
3. 4:18, -3
4. 4:30, 6
5. 4:16, -8
6. 4:30, 7
7. 4:16, -10
8. 4:33, 14
9. 4:23, -7
10. 4:08, 3.
Came in at 43:18, couldn’t stand up or breathe, very happy.
Just to add, I looked at the heart rate data. Me redlining from 2km, on the absolute limit, the thin line between glory and death, turbo ran the whole thing in zone 2, moderate, chatty pace. Impressive!
Good work!
Got a 10k pb of my own today, first sub 1hr at 59:14.
Kept it at 153bpm average, with a peak of 170 in the last 0.5k to make sure I made it under the hour, that's high zone 2/low zone 3 for me for most of the run.
Edit: just started watching turboferret's video, sub-4 min km's to start?! Jesus christ, I can't even imagine running that fast for more than a minute!!
@ta11pau1 Good going! That’s a good run with low heart rate. Mine was zone extreme for 8k of that. Brain went funny after 8k. Like running, but sometimes those efforts are horrible.
Cheers - I'm happy that I'm able to do 10k without too much thought (just a good day or 2's rest beforehand) considering I've only ever run that distance twice before - 10k and 11.5k, back in April.
My 10k was quite enyoable 😀 Was trying to keep my HR at 150 while also hitting 6:00 /km.
Day 100 of my streak today, I’ve now run at least 5k every day since lockdown began. Finished it with a 5k today after knocking out a 1:40 half yesterday.
Loving the work at the moment.
Was great to meet Sam/root-n-5th in person yesterday, and I was impressed with his effort, sticking with me the whole way despite being well out of his comfort zone. Totally smashed his PB, and based on his post-run pose, I reckon he squeezed a good proportion of his potential out, which is half of the game.
I had a 2x2 mile with 3 minute recovery this morning, part of our club virtual summer challenges. I programmed a workout into my Garmin to avoid any errors, but then foolishly misinterpreted the beeps towards the end of the first rep and started my walk recovery before the effort was over 😮 Probably cost me 10 seconds before I realised and broke back into a panicked sprint 😀
I did the first half of a "virtual" ultra this weekend - the real thing would have run on Friday night / Saturday, but has been cancelled due to covid19. To make up for it the organisation is running it via a Strava club and if you complete the ultra before the end of August you get a chance of winning a free entry next year. The entry fee is a donation to a local food bank so kudos to the organisation for that.
Anyway 6 of us set off at 23:30 Friday night, and finished with very sore feet at 10:00 the following morning. 61km up and down some local mountains which is the longest run I've done this year and at least 35km further than I've been since lockdown. I have to say I was very glad to get to the finish as the last 5k or so were a bit of a nightmare 🙂
@mogrim - sounds pretty epic. Hopefully build up to that one day.
@turboferret - Pleasure to meet you in person too and once again, thanks for the torture!
I realise my 10K is not exactly the pinnacle of running achievement in the grand scheme of things, but from a personal point of view it feels quite special. Considering that in September 2019 I was "building up" to doing a longer distance run, which was the local parkrun of 5K, without getting injured or having to stop because of spurious pain, to be able to push myself like yesterday reminds me how amazing the human body is. To all those new runners out there, keep at it, it will come if you build it up slowly. I'm really Mr Average in regard to athleticism, but I think half the battle, as Turbo alluded to, is being willing to suffer. I think I'm above average in that respect as I do look at some people and think they aren't trying hard enough - I can't see the fear in their eyes. I give everything in races which I think accounts a lot towards better performance on the whole and unlocks a huge amount of potential - it's amazing what you are capable of if you really, really push it. Not pleasant at the time though.
This thread has been encouraging over the last year.
Rest day today. Legs feel used, but good.
Seems I'm hopefully not too far off your times @roo-n-5th. My 10k pb is 47.5 mins and 5k just over 22 mins.
Curious to see hear how your training matches up. I've built up to 60k a week z2 runs and up until 2 weeks ago no speed work. Only other speed work was the occasional 5k attempt a bit I did following the garmin HM plan for the GNR last year but that was on much lower mileage.
I've just started a proper training plan now, from the faster road running book, I'm on week 2. Hopefully my times will start to improve.
How far are you weekly totals and do you do speed work etc?
Top work on the Jubilee Greenway Turboferret - how was the route?
I've upped my mileage a fair bit this month, 160km - 100km further than previous biggest month! Enjoying it more and more and with no date for gyms reopening I am going to continue. Can't decide whether to run a marathon or try to smash a 5km PB which was my original goal.
I like the idea of some fun challenges like this 10km with a twist.
@j4mesj4mes - Sounds like you're doing well.
After lockdown, the club stopped its sessions so I floundered a bit, then went out every other day for an unstructured Tempo/threshold run of about 5 miles. Started feeling tired and not much fitter, so took a step back. Somebody on here mentioned the 80/20 plan so, with the Sutton Runners 10K three and a half weeks away, I condensed a 12 weeks 10K training plan from the book into 3 weeks to see what would happen. Nothing to lose.
The zone 2 runs felt incredibly slow, but as I did more, my speed increased a bit - easier to heart rate down for a given speed. Hard interval sessions once or twice a week depending on the program with rest day after, or very slow recovery run. I probably averaged about 40-50K per week - more in the middle peak week - 57Km - and hopefully going out for an easy half marathon (even there thought of that a month a go would have me questioning my sanity) on Tuesday evening to get my monthly total to 200K - far more tan I've ever done.
The book states that the key is to avoid the "useless" zone 3 work as it tires you out, has no more benefit than slower runs and you can't run as far.
To put the zone 2 stuff in context, most of my 5 mile runs were about 4:40-4:50 min/km, the zone 2 stuff is 6min/km or there abouts. Waaaaay slower. Thing is, I will run for an hour or more, feel relatively fresh but the legs feel like they have had a good workout.
Speed work is important though (although it depends what you are training for I suppose), but, again as mentioned on here by Turboferret, it should be really hard - zone 4 and 5, and no longer that 25 minutes. Love the Garmin workouts for this.
I was sceptical, very sceptical, as I just seemed to be running slower and longer. Having done no tempo work or speed intervals longer than 2 minutes (but faster tan 10K pace) for nearly a month, when I set off yesterday for the 10k it really was a step into the unknown.
I fully expected to blow up completely after the first 2K, but despite a quick start from Turboferret and triple-taking the first Km at 4:14, the second and 4:20, the third at 4:18, and so on, which is a decent 5K pace for me, I started to believe I could do it as I was holding it together. I controlled the breathing pretty well and the legs didn't really start to burn until after 8Km. The pacing helped massively of course, but I'm sticking with this 80/20 business to see where is takes me as I improved from a "cheaty" 44:46 10K a month ago that was 2K downhill to start and the rest flat. This was a much tougher course.
I think I'd include some tempo runs on a longer program. Might train for the sub-20 5K next...
Interesting point about HR "easier to heart rate down for a given speed. "
I am no expert but my understanding and experience of HR (I dont think it is a particularly useful measure BTW) is that:
1: With a lot of training your resting rate falls. Mine is still very low in spite of doing no real hard running for years (I am 55 and ran competitively (that doesnt mean quickly) for about 40yrs)
2: The fitter you are the quicker your HR drops after very intensive exercise. Super fit athletes see HR rates plummet after only a few seconds.
3: Your maximum is "fixed" and there is little you can do to alter this. Interested in others thoughts but this is what I have experienced
4: Estimates of maximums are a waste of time. You need to do an intensive test to determine your max
This means you have a HR training "window" and hard training means for a given effort/speed you move down that window so are able to run faster with an apparent lower HR rate.
IMO its useful and important information but even if you are using a structured training plan its not necessary to monitor your HR and it can be impacted by many extraneous things which have little bearing on running. Running on "feel" is more appropriate although it does take some experience before you are able to interpret this and guage your effort. A HR monitor will be useful in this stage but I wouldnt bother once this is know.
@mark88 the Jubilee Greenway was quite a nice route. Bit of parks to start off with, little bit of road to get up to Paddington, then canal all the way to Stratford. Nice wide path all the way to Beckton, then park down to the Thames. Then it's river all the way, although some bits around the Greenwich Peninsula are far from picturesque. I had amazing weather for my run which helped.
However, as expected, Paul Martelletti (check out those PBs and weep), took my FKT yesterday. I fully expected this, and the only way he wasn't going to do so was by getting horribly lost, which he didn't! 2 surprises; firstly he only took 6 1/2 minutes off my time, partly down to detour I had to make for a locked gate about 16 miles in, secondly he consumed 1750ml of water to my 400ml 😮 Obviously starting at 4am helped from a fluid requirement perspective!
My next target is the 78 mile Capital Ring. I think knocking 2 hours off sounds like a reasonable goal 🙂 I'm hoping that this recent delivery will help keep me fuelled!
@surfer. I meant "easier to keep heart rate down", but I suspect you got that. I think it tallies with what you are saying that the windows come down. Zone 1 was a walk for me a month ago, now it's a slow run. Agreed heart rate isn't ideal - the chest strap helps a lot - but I'm still learning to run by feel. Getting there slowly. It's good discipline having the watch bleep at me when I go too high - just back off, bring it down and all is well. Just don't confuse the watch beeps for something they are not 😉
@turboferret - gutted about Greenway. Only 6.5 mins though...
And those Injinjijijiji socks keep cropping up. I looked into getting some but there is a huge choice. Are those your recommended variety? I prefer short socks though.
Just had a look at Garmin training plans, the 5k plan in particular, as it's been on my agenda for ages to get below 20 mins, it only goes down to 22 minutes? wtf?
Aside from colour, how do those pairs of socks differ? I'm particularly interested in the ultra ones and if they're good for longer offroad stuff. Can you compare them to twinskins by likes of Hilly for reducing blisters etc? Thanks
Duplicate post...
The missus wears those injinji socks and rates them as they keep your toes apart so much less chance of unexpected blisters around the toes. They are pretty well regarded in ultra circles as I understand it.
They don't seem to last long though.
I've never worn them though so can't really comment on any of the above.
@TF - Isn't Paul Martelletti a NZ international athlete? 6.5 minutes behind over that distance is outstanding, scope to take it off him?
After an extensive testing period my preferred Injinji are Trail Crew. Trails are reasonably padded, and the crew length stops you getting trail debris in your socks which can happen with the shorter ones. First wear of the ultras this morning, felt fairly similar, potentially a little thinner. Lots of different thicknesses and lengths available, so should be something to suit everyone who is toesock curious. I have knee length compression ones for some racing too. Cant offer any comparison to any more normal socks as I've worn these exclusively for years. Not mega hardwearing unfortunately...
I find HR a good indicator if I'm overexerting on longer stuff, but also a useful indicator of fitness. I remember running home from work sometime last year not long before a marathon. It was a brisk 19km run at about 1:20 HM pace, and I noticed that my average HR was about 125 BPM which showed I was in good form.
Marders as he calls himself is indeed a Kiwi but races for GB these days, plenty of international experience such as the IAU 100k World Champs. He's not infallible though - I beat him at the York Marathon last autumn (he was the returning champ), but clearly he was having an off day 🙂
With the right conditions I'm sure I could get close to or improve on his time, although I'm not sure I can be bothered 😀
With the right conditions I’m sure I could get close to or improve on his time, although I’m not sure I can be bothered 😀
Ha ha - fair play, still it's excellent for a one time effort, muchos kudos.
Any tips on where to start on trail running shoes? Something with reasonable ankle support around £70ish
Do I go a bit higher and get Salamon Speedcross which seem to be well regarded (popular)?
I didn't feel that speedcross offered much support, was quite happy when the wee lace retainer broke after 1 run, took em back and swapped for old faithful Asics Fujitrabuco.
Weren't as bad as mudclaws, they have you perched up like Elton John circa 1975 😂 first run in them was the Carnethy 5, not a sensible idea for new trainers to be honest.
I love my Fujis, have standard ones for trail running and ultras, GTX model for hillwalking.
I like Nike Pegasus Trail @mark88. It’s not an aggressive shoe, works well on a range of surfaces, though not great in mud.
Any tips on where to start on trail running shoes? Something with reasonable ankle support around £70ish
Trail running shoes don't really have ankle support - they're for running, not hiking! FWIW I don't get on with Salomon, but lots of people do. IME they're quite narrow with a higher arch, which is a very "opinionated" way to keep your foot in place. I like a bit more space.
At the moment I'm using Saucony Xodus Iso 3's, which are massive and very comfortable but quite weighty. Previously I've had (and liked) Innov8s, New Balance, Altra, La Sportiva, and probably a few more. I tend to go to a shop and see what's on offer and what feels good.
Not a great deal of help when it comes to answering your question, but TBH I think people tend to overthink this, when pretty much all the shoes will be fine for 95% of the time, and if you're running in that final 5% you'll probably have a pretty good idea of what you need.
Trail running shoes don’t really have ankle support – they’re for running, not hiking!
I guess I mean something supportive, rather than light weight. I have a habit of rolling my ankle when I'm hiking or running on uneven ground.
Not a great deal of help when it comes to answering your question, but TBH I think people tend to overthink this
Of course, but nice to have some direction. I'm always conscious of going into a shop and receiving a sales pitch rather than unbiased advice so like to have a good idea of what I'm looking for first.
Do I go a bit higher and get Salamon Speedcross which seem to be well regarded (popular)?
Speedcross are OK, bit high at the back, bit floppy at the front, bit skitey on wet rock but generally OK all round. I've had several pairs for training/daily running and you can often pick them up very cheap. Salomon are better suited to narrow feet.
If you want something a bit firmer/lower drop I really like my Salomon Sense Pro 3 - not sure if these are still available but there seems to be a mark 4.
Not a great deal of help when it comes to answering your question, but TBH I think people tend to overthink this, when pretty much all the shoes will be fine for 95% of the time, and if you’re running in that final 5% you’ll probably have a pretty good idea of what you need.
Agreed, I'm pretty happy with comfy as a priority, plenty space in the toe box and a decent grip.
I've been quite happy with my cheap New Balance MT590 V4's. They're wearing well - 122km on them, plus they're my 'normal' trainers for everyday wear.
New 10km PB for me last night, pleased with 51m47sec given it was part off road with styles/gates and part road. Given me some impetus to see if I can get to sub 50m at somepoint.
Hip is giving me problems post runs and whilst sleeping at the moment though.
I guess I mean something supportive, rather than light weight. I have a habit of rolling my ankle when I’m hiking or running on uneven ground.
I've not seen any running shoes that really support your ankle - it's not really compatible with running. Even the Sauconys I've got at the moment (and they're a complete panzer tank of a shoe) have limited ankle support:
IME to save your ankles you're better off using a bosu or similar once or twice a week to build up strength.
As to a potential sales pitch, I'd just be wary of anyone insisting you need a particular type of shoe, most models are fine. Equally you don't need to get trail shoes from a trail shoe brand, the mainstream brands like New Balance and Adidas have good stuff too. And you don't need goretex 🙂