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Did my Bristol 3-peaks thing today. Conditions were ok - trails were a lot muddier and slimier than during the Recce. A lot more growth, etc. Still more than passable though and nowhere near shoe-clogging claginess so all good.
Felt wonderful for the first 15km - passed quite a few that were in the wave ahead of me. Jeez though - last 11.5km were a real slog - proper test of resilience.
Anyway, came in at 2.43ish for the 16.5 miles. 32nd overall out of 182 starters and 6th VM40. Am thinking positively - only ever ran a half “off road” before so this was quite a leap for me. I can’t but be happy with it. I think with a bit of experience, I could knock off a few minutes. Great day out though. Loved it.
Awesome Ciaran, brilliant stuff. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
How did Arran go for you Nobeer? Not the best of days!
Was amazing Spin, loved it, abiding memory is coming off North Goatfell down some of those mental gullies, finding myself grinning like a loon! Lass in front must have thought I was a right weirdo! 🤣
Last 3 miles was horrible on the flat, but I'd had my fun by then, just over 5 hours, really pleased with that for my first race of that kind.
How'd you get on?. I reckon more than a few folks will have got lost in the murk, especially coming off Nuis.
Nice one. It is a very good course. If I do it next year I'd probably do the 26k as it is a better loop. Those out and backs on the longer one seem a bit pointless.
I had a good race, didn't feel great at the start but got better as it went on and came in 5th in 5.30 something.
A few folk did get lost including the guy who was leading your race.
Good work NoFearOnTheBridge and Spin. Great stuff. 👏
Well done sir, that's a great result!
Good job all, well done NBITHF, Spin and DD!
I did a half-ironman, went pretty well all things considered - swim was cold and awful until I got into the swing of things, bike was great, run was hot and dusty and hilly and horrible...
Good training for next month's full Ironman though 🙂
Cheers mogrim. And jolly well done on completing a half-Ironman. Sounded tough.
Awesome mogrim, you still in Madrid area?.
Well done all, top work. I've had a lazy couple of weeks (I say lazy - no sleep due to littlun) but I'm packing my bag now so I can get a couple of miles in at lunchtime tomorrow...
Some good work over the weekend and why I love this thread!! Different league but great to read about 🙂 Good end to Father’s Day for me - squeezed in a loop of Scafell Pike from Wasdale Head in-between pretty filthy weather. Ran with a pal from work who lives up here and is a big fell runner - jeez he’s quick on the descents!! I thought I was ok going down but we’d set off on a rough descent and I’d look up after what seemed like only a few paces to see him 200m ahead already!!
Completely brilliant to be back out in proper fells though 🙂
Newbie advice (well just getting back into it)
47, 33BMI, used to run all the time 15 years ago, forgotten everything.
So I have found myself doing a gentle 3k (25mins) every morning on workdays I did weds thrus fri last week and have merrily popped my runners on this morning. Its run/walk as I am very fat and unfit. Feels OK though. I am planning to continue.
Should I reign it in do it every other morning?
Well done all!
Finished the marathon yesterday - very happy to get it done. 43km and a shade under 2800m. Tendonitis was painful on the walk up to the car, and the warmup, but seemed to ease off. Necked a couple of Ibuprofens.
Went through a very tough patch though. Probably went out too hot, first climb is 1200m continuous and it was around 28º at the top - felt shaky and there's some hairy scrambling up there, very exposed. Hit the second climb and just ground to a halt, vomited, went dizzy, almost shat myself and then the cramps hit me. Dully predictable - I knew it would pass, and I was too far from anywhere to abandon so trudged on, passing a couple of guys laid on the floor with their legs up, later heard they DNFd. Passed the CP, sat down for a bit, then along came a fellow sufferer so we buddied up and got round together. His family were waiting at the next CP with cold beer, nice touch.
Stopped the clock at 7.41 - winner was 4.05, first woman 4.45. They obviously escaped the death march!
Not sure what to do next. Don't know if Paul Tierney's Wainwrights are being covered on here. Tracker etc:
https://twitter.com/inov_8/status/1139456504187281408
One of the more iconic trail ultras coming up this weekend; the West Highland Way race begins at 0100 Saturday from Milngavie, beside the railway station. A few years back, we used to think that 16 hours would never be beaten but now, the course record is inside 14 hours. At the other end of the field, the official slowest finisher record is at 34 hours, 47 minutes. That must have hurt.
If you're anywhere near any parts of the event, start, finish in Ft Bill or anywhere in between, please give the runners a shout.
Bob-summers and anyone else that this might apply to: please stop taking Ibuprofen on distance events; it's very harmful, multiplies the kidney insult involved in rhabdomyolysis and can lead to kidney failure. It's confirmed use leads to an automatic disqualification in Scottish ultras, it's that harmful!!
Aye, **** that, Ibuprofens to be avoided!
Well done though Bob!.
Awesome mogrim, you still in Madrid area?.
Yes - the race was in a small town to the north of Madrid.
Well done bob_summers for finishing, but highlandman makes a very good point about ibuprofen and long-distance events - it's safer to stick to paracetamol.
@5plusn8 - I think the best advice is to listen to what your body is telling you. If stuff starts to hurt, back it off.
Thanks for the heads-up all, I did not know that. I have survived 45 years without ever taking Ibuprofen so I'll knock it on the head gladly.
I am an occasional runner (do the ParkRun most weekends but that's about it). This year I am determined to get <24 minutes but I am damned if I can - I ran as fast as I could manage (peak zone for the entire run and legs feeling it today) but still only managed 24m 28 seconds (normally can do anything between 25.30 and 24.45) which is basically requiring me to shave 10 seconds per mile to reach my target. I find it hard to fit more runs in during the week so how do I get to my target otherwise?
Run a bit more? Surely you could find space early in the morning or evening to fit in say 2 x 30 minute runs? Within these you could incorporate some speed work which in my experience delivers results best.
Watch your diet too - lose a few lbs and you’ll be a bit quicker.
If you cant do more runs then run them a little further each time. Also run them faster (all sounds simple I know) but warm up then push very hard then slower then hard again. I used to do 4 miles in my lunch hour and around 3 of that was about 5 min mile pace. back and showered in about 30 mins. It will transform your running and from your current pace, 10 secs is not that much.
Nice to be running in a vest again..
And a cap and shades to keep the sun and flies off rather than the rain...
johndoh, to add to shortbread’s and surfer’s posts. I don’t think in min/m anymore so I’ll go with min/km. I think, injury aside, you can get from 24.30 to <24 easily enough. You’re looking at knocking 6s/km off so run intervals at 4.30-4.40/km. Obviously helps if you have a GPS watch to help with this.
Warm-up for 5-7 min.
Run 500m at 4.30-4.40.
Recover for 2-3min. Recovery might be walk for 30s then jog.
Repeat 5-6 times.
Cool down to home.
Do this twice a week. Mornings after a strong coffee are good. I go out twice a week at 0515 with my training partners. If you can find another victim to accompany you, it helps. Also this time of year, it’s lovely running that early. Nice and light, dead roads, generally crisp conditions. It’s only a half hour work out. Run Parkrun on Saturday morning. Aim to go at a constant pace over your 5km - really important to warm up before starting. Gets the heart rate up and you won’t be dying on your arse after what will feel like a fast first km. Willing to bet you’ll go sub-24 after a couple of weeks.
EDIT: If you don’t have a Garmin into which to program an interval session, there are plenty of apps that’ll do it via Bluetooth headphones.
Quality advice ^^^
After doing a walk/jog recce of the Arran route 2 weeks ago that took us over 8 hours, my legs were in bits for days.
After doing the event on saturday in 5 hours, 2 days later my legs feel great, I'll be running today.
Bizarre!.
Mine were like lead this morning. I blame junior Parkrun. 😂
Getting down with the kids mate, it's not easy! 🙂
My legs are still ****ed from that 10k 10 days ago followed up by a fast 10mile TT a couple days later
Ran to and from the track at easy pace and Tried track training Thursday night . Died 1000deaths
Calfs super super tight .
Been stretching and stuff
Offshore just now so taking it light and calling it a *taper*
12 days till lairig ghru.
I had some alcohol free erdinger when I finished, mibbe that's the key!
EDIT: If you don’t have a Garmin into which to program an interval session, there are plenty of apps that’ll do it via Bluetooth headphones.
Even if you dont have any tech just set yourself a route and test and time yourself over that. It may just be between 2 key points. Dont worry if it is 685.4m or 1028m etc, doesnt matter. Run it hard with a recovery and simply time it on your £10 Casio. The benefit comes from the hard run over a set distance and a fixed recovery time.
Thanks for the thoughts - to confirm things - I really struggle with finding extra time as other spare time is spent at the gym doing spin classes but I might have to try to find time mid-week (and drop one of the spin sessions) to get another run in and perhaps I can use that run to improve my speed.
I didn't see this (long) thread, someone has just pointed me in the right direction.
I have just posted up a thread about shin splints. 🙁
Dont worry if it is 685.4m or 1028m etc, doesnt matter. Run it hard with a recovery and simply time it on your £10 Casio. The benefit comes from the hard run over a set distance and a fixed recovery time.
You don't even really need to time it, although obviously if you want to track progress you'll need to do something like that. Find a shortish local hill, run up it hard (for whatever value of "hard"), then jog back down. Repeat. Do that once a week and you'll soon progress.
Any of you NW folk doing the Shrigley Stag on saturday? Think it's a new one and part of the Rose Queen carnival thingy. Just put my entry in 🙂
You don’t even really need to time it, although obviously if you want to track progress you’ll need to do something like that
The measurement doesn't just "track" improvement but "drives" it. Without measurement its "just" running. No bad thing in itself (its pretty much all I do now) but it is not "training" in the strict sense. You may improve marginally but measurement is the key to understanding if your training is working and ensuring that training is sufficiently stressfull to deliver "real" improvement. Thats not to say you have to be a slave to the watch but hard, measured training is what separates joggers from those who want to improve their performance.
Well there's a first time for everything, I've just been disqualified from a race!
Used poles on Saturday because they're generally allowed in that type of race, or have been in other races of that kind I've done. There was nothing on the website saying otherwise (I checked the whole thing) and no mention of it at any point during sign-in briefing etc.
Seems they weren't allowed after all and some other runners complained. 🙂
Ironically, my conclusion from the experiment was that they didn't give any advantage on that terrain.
Bollocks.
They were asked a few weeks back by a guy I know, and said they had consulted the landowner (I hate that term) and had agreed with him that they shouldn't be allowed, but as you say, no mention of it at race briefing.
Landowner is a prick as well btw, a real piece of work.
I don't really understand what the landowner has to do with it? Sounds like a cop out on the organisers part.
I'm happy to follow the rules but I need to know what the rules are! I'm finding it quite amusing now but I was a little miffed earlier especially as I'd confessed all at the finish. They admitted they should have made it clearer and told me I wouldn't be disqualified.
Sorry to hear about that Spin. A right bummer.
Right, I know this has been asked before but I’m a lazy **** and can’t be arsed trawling back through the thread.
Bloody “Mandatory Kit” ☹️
Lightweight waterproof jacket recommendations please? It “must” have taped/welded seams as well, FFS. Guess it’s a “pick any two features” choice. Although, I have my eye on a race in November, where it might get used in anger so don’t mind spending an extra few squid on something decent.
The 8.99 ones in decathlon are the go to light and packable, and they're actually quite good!.
Agree with nobeer, you can spend a fortune on a jacket but ten quid or 200 quid you'll end up a sweaty mess running in it.
I've got an OMM Kamleika jacket and although the design and fabric are good I'm already having to send it back due to stitching coming undone.
For kit check proof trousers I spent £10 on a pair of 'isodry' trousers from Mountain Warehouse. They actually work very well.
'Casey Morgan - Scottish Athletics, the land owners and our own preference from a safety point of view.'
That's the reason on the faceboak post when asked the reason for no poles Spin.
I'd be disputing it tbh if there's no mention in the rules.
I was thinking I was OK with this DQ thing but actually I'm not.
I've paid £50 to a professional event organising company and followed every bit of info on their website and verbally given to the letter but still been DQ'd. Not good enough.
Edit - just seen your post nobeer. Think I'll raise it with them. I'd already been in contact and they agreed to remove my name from the results as it made it look like a deliberate attempt to cheat on my part.
Agree with nobeer, you can spend a fortune on a jacket but ten quid or 200 quid you’ll end up a sweaty mess running in it.
Yup, fosho. You’re preaching to the choir there Spin. There is a nice one on Decathlon but it’s not cheap. I’ll have a look on sportsshoes and see what they have reduced from last season.
I’m considering a 50k around the Gower in November. Did my 16.5m on Sat and have a 24m in July. I’ll be reet won’t I? Plenty of time before November to get to 34? 😀
EDIT: and thanks Spin for the slacks recommendation - will have a look at those.
Aye, I'd pursue it, bloody right I would.
They've got folks times wrong all over the place going by the faceboak comments as well.
They’ve got folks times wrong all over the place going by the faceboak comments as well.
Also the marking thing, although that's not for me to raise. If they tell people there's no need for map or navigation then you need to make blood sure it's just that.
It's a shame, I enjoyed the day and the feel of the event but a commercial event (as opposed to a volunteer run one) needs to get these things right.
Aye, agreed.
Keep us posted.
Definitely let them know your position.
I did the trail race and thought it a bit strange that there was a mandatory kit list, yet a few guys at the start carrying nothing and wearing shorts and t-shirt....
Was also told to follow the gpx by a marshall which I didn't have on my watch, nor a map as I didn't think it was necessary but if the conditions were any worse probably would've needed.
Great event all in but some improvements could be made which I'm sure the organisers will address for next year.
Mate of mine was DQd last year, a group of them were, Marshall wasn't paying attention and assumed they'd come off caisteal abhail, Sent them on their way toward Tarsuinn.
Cloud was down so they headed off in direction he sent them. He thought they'd been up so summit checkpoint, they hadn't.
Not the best advert really.
Great event all in but some improvements could be made which I’m sure the organisers will address for next year.
I heard a rumour it was going to be a Skyrace next year in which case they'll definitely need to sort out things like marshalling, marking and communication. Plus it will probably be twice the price and have twice as many competitors!
I actually emailed them before the race to ask if they provided maps but was told there would be no need as it was fully marked. That didn't really work out given that the 26k race was probably decided by Hamish Battle going wrong.
Aye, defo, he was well in the lead at that point.
Lots of folks went straight along the ridge off Ben nuis instead of taking the path off toward Glen Rosa, one little 24" cane with a wee bit of red tape 20m off the trail is easily missed in the glaur.
In contrast the 3 times I've done the Glen Coe Skyline it's been marked with a flag pretty much every 10m. An amazing effort really when you think about it.
Keep us posted.
After a bit of toing and froing between myself and Casey his last email contains what looks like a kind of qualified apology or at least an admission that they understand my position. He's acknowledged a communication issue and stated quite clearly that he never thought I was deliberately breaking rules or trying to gain advantage. But he's sticking to the line that the info was out there on FB and via the footnote on the website to say 'UKA regs'. Personally I don't think that's adequate. Various phrases like 'unfortunate situation' and 'had no choice' were used. There's a bit of a double standard going on as I approached him immediately at the finish, confessed all and apologised. He initially told me I wouldn't be DQ'd but then decided to do so on the basis that other runners had complained.
Can't say I'm entirely happy with all that but I'm not sure it's worth the effort / stress of pursuing it further.
I wouldn't let the above get in the way of a great run, especially in those conditions.
Perhaps not in the spirit of the race for other competitors to complain about such a minor discrepancy but that's the price you pay for being fast!
I wouldn’t let the above get in the way of a great run, especially in those conditions.
Perhaps not in the spirit of the race for other competitors to complain about such a minor discrepancy but that’s the price you pay for being fast!
I agree, I've said my piece and I'm going to drop it now. It does leave a bit of a bad taste in the mouth though and I've gone from thinking I would probably do one of the races again next year to thinking I definitely wont. I suspect those who complained were probably people who had been told they couldn't use poles then saw me with them! I might have complained too under those circumstances. He did suggest that folk wouldn't have been too bothered if I was in 50th rather than 5th.
I was actually in a similar situation a few weeks ago when other runners used GPS to navigate in a race where it was not allowed. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and rather than dobbing them in just suggested to the organiser that they might want to make it clearer next time.
That's a shit situation, shouldn't matter a jot whether you finish 5th or 5th last, if they don't state the rules clearly then they can't enforce something retrospectively.
Anyhow, results (finally!) in for the 'wee race' - delighted to finish top half, 40/109, in my first proper race of this type, only done 3 wee hill races so far. Some lessons learned, particularly around fuelling, I reckon if I'd had a couple of gels coming down through the bog I would have done sub 5hrs, but hey ho.
My only tactics were not to stop at all and to keep my HR below 150, which I stuck to and they worked pretty well.
As an aside, you don't reckon poles worked for you then? I always descend when hill walking with them, think they're brilliant, takes huge weight off the legs and allow me to walk lots faster, but often wonder how you actually run with them, if that makes sense?.
Timely info on the waterproofs - ta. I'm looking at a couple of races coming up which require mandatory kit so just ordered a cheapy pair of Mountain Warehouse pants - £17 incl delivery.
@spin - understandably frustrating situation regarding the poles. Shame as that sort of this can detract from an otherwise grand day out.
often wonder how you actually run with them
As with everything: practice. Can't say I'm particularly good with them downhill, but I've got a mate who uses them far more than me and he flies downhill, using the poles to vault over obstacles.
@spin sorry to hear about the DQ, does seem very unfair if they weren't explicitly banned.
As an aside, you don’t reckon poles worked for you then?
Firstly, glad to hear you were happy with your result. A great effort for a first go at that sort of thing. You should consider doing some of the long classics next year.
I've used poles a lot but not in races so I thought Saturday would be a good chance to experiment for any future pole legal events.
My conclusion was that they didn't benefit me on the whole. In fact I speeded up after I put them away. They work well when you are moving at a slower pace like in a long ultra or 24 hr round but become less useful at shorter race pace. They also work better on smoother terrain than we had in that race. On rough rocky ground you start having to think about where the pole is going as well as where your feet are going and that's too much for my mind at least to handle. On that course they were probably of benefit on some of the climb up Goat Fell, the climb back out of North Sannox and nowhere else really.
Lightweight waterproof jacket recommendations please? It “must” have taped/welded seams as well, FFS. Guess it’s a “pick any two features” choice. Although, I have my eye on a race in November, where it might get used in anger so don’t mind spending an extra few squid on something decent.
I really like my Gore jacket - used to be called Active, now Shakedry. Incredibly light and mega breathable, but not super cheap by any means.
Not sure what to do next. Don’t know if Paul Tierney’s Wainwrights are being covered on here. Tracker etc:
https://twitter.com/inov_8/status/1139456504187281408 /blockquote>
Looks like Paul is going to finish today Inov8 Update and take a good chunk off the previous record
I really like my Gore jacket – used to be called Active, now Shakedry. Incredibly light and mega breathable, but not super cheap by any means.
Gore make the best jackets IMO. Cost a bit more but worth it. Dont bother with Gore-tex just their own breathable one. Gore-tex just boil in the bag.
On rough rocky ground you start having to think about where the pole is going as well as where your feet are going and that’s too much for my mind at least to handle.
That's just a lack of practice though, there's loads of rocky ground round here and poles work fine - assuming you know what you're doing. They are definitely easier on smoother ground, though, and if there's any mud around they're a lifesaver 🙂
Big scenes in Keswick for Paul coming back in - 6 days and 6 hrs for all the Wainwrights!
Spin, sorry to hear about your experience over the DQ for poles issue. It is rubbish when you get binned for something that you thought was acceptable and did not do through malice or mischievousness.
From what I hear, your experience over their usefulness is a fair assessment and while they have their place on some mountain ultras and the biggest challenges, they're less useful generally.
For future reference everyone:
All Scottish Athletics authorised events ban the use of walking poles, including the longest and lumpiest ultras.
In other news - Paul Tierney has just broken the Wainwrights record. This is bloody amazing! Unofficial time: 6 days 6hrs and 5 mins. Over 7 hours off previous record.
Sorry Dashed - didn't see yours!
That’s just a lack of practice though, there’s loads of rocky ground round here and poles work fine – assuming you know what you’re doing.
I think we're talking about slightly different things. When I say they're not so good on rocky ground I'm talking about large scree fields and big boulder hopping of which there was plenty in the race in question. You don't really see anyone using poles on that kind of terrain or if they do they're actually moving slower than those without. Lots of people will just lift them up for those sections or hold both poles in one hand for a bit.
Backtracking slightly. As my running tailed off I did a bit of marshalling on some local races (Auld Lang Syne, Stanbury Splash and the like). One race, probably the ALS I was marshal at the trig point above Top Withens. The route almost turned back on itself at this point, maybe a 300deg right turn. I took an armful of wands and tape up with me and made a sort of funnel around the trig point to guide runners back towards the finish.
Despite this I had to yell at quite a few runners who'd jump over the tape (above knee high and with deep heather either side) and continue blindly on in the outward line!
Regarding walking/running poles in races: it's a bit much to say "look at SA or SFRA" rules as they often then refer on to further rulesets. Quite why the organisers couldn't explicitly ban them is perplexing.
Great fun yesterday and today supporting a Ramsay Round. I supported leg one over the Ben etc then went back out this morning to meet her on Stob Ban. She had to go pretty deep but came in in 23.51. Splendid effort and great to be a part of it.
Superb, that sort of stuff fries my brain, phenomenal.
Just home from supporting the first half of the west highland way race. When I left at 50 miles the winner had crossed the line.
Just incredible.
Aye, couple of our club guys doing it, warm day for it today!.
Maybe one day.
When I left at 50 miles the winner had crossed the line.
Just incredible.
The woman I supported on the Ramsay Round said something similar. At the time Jasmine Paris had finished her round she still had 7hrs to go!
Superb, that sort of stuff fries my brain, phenomenal.
It was a really interesting thing to be involved with. I did my RR solo with 2 static support points so didn't have much insight into what it took to give effective support to someone. Our aspirant came in with 9 minutes to spare and that could easily have been lost with some sub optimal decisions by the support.
That's pressure!.
That’s pressure!
The thing with these rounds is that the call goes out for support and all manner of people volunteer for all manner of reasons but what an aspirant needs is people with local knowledge and good hill skills.