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^^ Can’t get to grips with this quoting malarkey either!!
I've been considering changing from Asics Cumulus to a different brand. I've loved them but wonder if I should try others as I tend to get plantar fasciitis and generally my feet are the only part which get sore during latter stages of long runs. Are there any brands I should consider? Thanks.
I have a query - are shoes advertised as 'trail' running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of 'trails' one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains?
There's a pretty big variation so it's hard to generalise like that.
I guess it depends what shoe it is and wood advertising it.
Which ones?
Someone on here's portion got some experience or ideas..
I’ve been considering changing from Asics Cumulus to a different brand.
I went from ASICS cumulus to Nike Pegasus and Brooks Ghost. Both are similar, well cushioned every day shoes but they work better for me than the ASICS.
I have a query – are shoes advertised as ‘trail’ running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of ‘trails’ one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains
As above, it depends.
Some trail shoes are just a road shoes with an aggressive sole unit for some more grip. Others are for climbing mountains.
I have a query – are shoes advertised as ‘trail’ running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of ‘trails’ one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains
As mentioned more than once, it depends 🙂
The following are variables:
* Sole type - this is similar to MTB tyres: some are more aggressive, with spaced out lugs; others have more lugs which is better on smooth surfaces. Lug length is also a factor - 6mm is about the longest they get, and is good for mud or grass. But less good on rock. All brands promise high durability with great grip, and sometimes they're right...
* Rock plate - some shoes include a rock plate, which provides protection for the forefoot at the expense of less flexibility.
* Cushioning - generally more cushioning is better for ultra distances, if you're doing shorter distances you won't need as much. Cushioning agains limits flexibility and adds weight. It also makes the shoe taller, which can increase the risk of you turning an ankle.
* Upper - the upper is usually made from heavier duty materials compared to a road shoe, with a decent amount of rubber on the toe to protect you when you (inevitably) stub your toe on something. A few shoes also use Goretex, but outside of snow running I personally don't think it's of much use. Taking this to an extreme, La Sportiva make a full-on winter shoe with goretex and a built-in gaiter: https://www.lasportiva.com/es/calzado-hombre/mountain-running-a/uragano-gtx
* Fit - this is fairly similar to road shoes, narrow/wide etc. If you're doing an ultra you probably want a slightly wider shoe (particularly in the toe box) to help with swelling. You need a fairly tight fit around the heel to stop your foot moving around on the descents.
Thanks, I though this may be the case. I was looking at:
- Brooks Divide
- Nike Juniper
- Inov8 Terraultra
I do a bit of road running but would like to try going up some hills - not scampering over rocks/ bogs specifically but will encounter some pretty steep/ scrambly situations in my local area.
Nice pics mogrim - great to have this kind of scenery close by.
My everyday running scenery is somewhat less impressive, although the other day I did enjoy running alongside a couple of horses racing each other in the field beside me - they beat me fair and square. 🙂
New running shoes are ordered - a bit like waiting for ‘New Bike Day’ - although clearly not quite as exciting. I'm easily pleased.
– Brooks Divide
– Nike Juniper
– Inov8 Terraultra
I've not tried any of those, but from a quick google I'd get either the Brooks or the Inov8's... the sole of the Nike's looks like it'd be a bit of a nightmare if you get any kind of mud around where you live.
New Ramsay's Round record by Findlay Wild (who else?) today. 14.42 which is about an hour and a half off the previous.
Also a new Paddy Buckley record - Math Roberts in 16:37, nearly an hour better than Damien Hall's time.
And ...
Carol Morgan set a new women's 24hr fell record with 65 Lakeland tops, bettering Nicky Spinks' 64 tops. Don't know the extra top or the overall time yet.
This year has been a bit of a stunner, only the Men's summer BGR record and the women's winter BGR record haven't been bettered in the Lakes.
This year has been a bit of a stunner, only the Men’s summer BGR record and the women’s winter BGR record haven’t been bettered in the Lakes.
No racing for these guys, so plenty time to train and plan for record attempts this year. Finlay Wilds record time was unsupported as well.
His time is incredible, local guy to me who is incredibly fit did it in just under 9 hours longer than FW.
And Donnie Campbell on track to beat the record of 39 days and 9 hours to do all 282 munros (and bike between them).
- Brooks Divide
– Nike Juniper
– Inov8 Terraultra
If there is a Nike option I would always take it. Consistently the best "general" shoe manufacturer in my experience. There is a shift towards extreme and gnarly shoes when they are not required. Unless you need something heavily studded then I would go for a general shoe with a good outersole such as the Nike waffle which is generally fine for most conditions and comfortable on road and hardpack when you have worn £40 off your Invo8's
If there is a Nike option I would always take it. Consistently the best “general” shoe manufacturer in my experience. There is a shift towards extreme and gnarly shoes when they are not required. Unless you need something heavily studded then I would go for a general shoe with a good outersole such as the Nike waffle which is generally fine for most conditions and comfortable on road and hardpack when you have worn £40 off your Invo8’s
I'd pretty much agree with every word of that.
For a really good all rounder, look at the Pegasus Trail. Perfectly fine on the road an cracking for most off-road stuff as well unless you're getting silly. Very much the gravel bike of running shoes.
I. perhaps misguidedly, have Nike down as a fashion brand, like North Face outdoor gear, I wouldn't consider them, but other more knowledgeble folks like surfer above will disagree.
Bought a pair of inov8 mudclaws, ran the carnethy 5 on their first outing, straight onto ebay they went. Awesome grip on mud, but felt perched like Elton John in his 70's platform boots, the narrowest shoe I've ever seen. So that's inov8 out the window now too. 🙂
I. perhaps misguidedly, have Nike down as a fashion brand
I think it's easy to get that impression, but they do make some really, really good kit.
You only have to look at the VaporFly and AlphaFly range to see the amount of research that goes into their race shoes.
Even the mid-range stuff, I always rave about the Pegasus for instance, is as good if not better than other manufacturers.
For a really good all rounder, look at the Pegasus Trail. Perfectly fine on the road an cracking for most off-road stuff as well unless you’re getting silly. Very much the gravel bike of running shoes.
That's not the same model the OP was asking about, though! I've got nothing against Nike, but the Juniper trail has this sole:
... and that heel looks like it would lethal descending on anything even slightly wet.
Agree @mogrim, I just thought I'd throw in another shoe.
That's not the tread of a trail shoe at all!
No racing for these guys, so plenty time to train and plan for record attempts this year.
It's not just the top guys, currently for this year 8 out of 43 BG successes are sub 20hr so 18%, prior to this year that figure was 127 out of 2384 or 5%. OK not big figures to work with or assume a trend but nearly four times the rate? Last year it was 12% and that felt like an exceptional year.
The racing thing works in two ways: less injury and fatigue; looking for something "to do" that isn't restricted because of group gatherings.
OK not big figures to work with or assume a trend but nearly four times the rate?
A fast round will always generally be around the months when big races are also on, and would mean recovering when these guys want to be racing usually, not an issue this year. Also lockdown will have provided an awful lot of folk an awful lot of time to train and focus more than they normally would.
@mrsheen - platar fascitis... I found it was the footbed more than the shoe which impacted me. Most of the off the shelf shoes have a crappy, waffer thin bit of foam with no support. I've got really high arches and walking on hard floors in bare feet kills me. Same for running in shoes with no arch support. I have a pair of these in my running shoes now - different heights available https://www.shoeinsoles.co.uk/sidas-3feet-active-insoles-for-high-arches.html
@nobeer - I can't get Inov8 to fit me either but they do come in different width fittings - mudclaws are the narrowest I think.
@mogrim Not very grippy in mud etc I agree. Assumed they had at least a waffly type sole which is generally great on most surface.
Having said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock? It is the holy grail and nothing, even the most studded sole grips on wet rock when descending....
Having said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock?
Absolutely depends on the rock type IMO, Arran?, everything will grip, the Galloways? nothing will grip!
Having said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock? It is the holy grail and nothing, even the most studded sole grips on wet rock when descending….
There are degrees of uselessness, though 🙂
And what Nobeerinthefridge said: go running in the hills above Valencia and you'll be on your arse in seconds, it's all chalk. Round here it's granite and usually pretty grippy. Until it freezes, and that's when we break out the crampons...
– Inov8 Terraultra
I've had 8-9 different Inov8s but haven't particularly gelled with these. They feel a bit lifeless - they fit the same as all the others but these are one of their wider shoes. Maybe I'm just not a great candidate for zero drop? I'd go Trailtalon or Trailroc first. The Roclite is a good all rounder too. They'll all take a bit of road.
Donnie Campbell makes the BBC for his Munro record - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53999465
Saw Donnie coming into Beinglas a couple of weeks back, looked fresh as paint. Amazing effort, what an achievement.
Just back from a week's family holiday in Kent. Not the most exotic destination but suited us really well and was nice and local too. I planned lots of running routes in advance with the help of the Strava Heatmap which meant I had lots of options available every day.
While not exactly mountainous, certainly hillier than south London, and apparently I climbed ~2000m, double my usual weekly amount. Also for a bit of fun I targeted a few Strava Segments - a total of 29 for the week, 9 of which were during the last run - this was quite a satisfying result after a decent effort 😀
I didn't run any more volume than normal during the week, I can certainly feel that my legs have done some work 🙂
Plenty of gold on there turboferret!
I see the FRA are banning GPS from fellraces next year. I know lots of races had independently banned them but now across the board.
The use of GPS devices (or similar technologies) to
assist with navigation or positioning in any way is now
completely prohibited in all FRA races. This includes
(but is not limited to) display of a map, fixing current
position, following a “breadcrumb trail” and any “offtrack” visual or audio warnings. Runners who use such
a device – even momentarily for repositioning – must
retire and declare themselves non-competitive to the
Race Organiser
I don’t know a lot about fell racing, but it seems a bit ludditey.
A skill of Hill racing is navigation, particularly in the longer races, there's not a 'course' as such, there's reward for taking more direct lines for example. You could argue that then it's too favourable to locals, but there's races all over the UK in the race series.
I can see why they do this, but some of it is questionable, stipulation to carry a map and compass, but most folk I know that race wouldn't know how to navigate with those.
I'm not a fellracing expert having only done a handful but I like the idea. Courses aren't marked and part of the challenge is route-finding. Using GPS basically eliminates a core part of the challenge.
I don’t know a lot about fell racing, but it seems a bit ludditey.
It is. BUT - I think that's just the way it should be. As NoBeer says, half the skill is in finding a good route, not just following flags. GPS for tracking is still allowed - so you can still Strava it - as long as you're not using it for nav. Navigation isn't rocket science, it's a skill you can learn, but it's been on the wane for years as people just got used to using Sat Nav for everything. The stipulation for a map and compass is in place so that if the clag descends and you get lost, in theory you should be able to get yourself out of trouble and back on course.
I grew up orienteering, and I've been getting back into it in recent years. I can't stand 'running for the sake of running': you'll very rarely find me mashing miles out along pavements or just 'going for a run', I just find it purposeless and painful*. But give me a map and let me loose on some decent complex terrain and I'm happy as Larry, even if I'm vaguely lost! I shudder at the thought of running a road 10km, half or marathon, but I've run a couple of 50 mile trail Ultras and have another one in mind for next year if events are back to running normally.
My local orienteering club have punted a load of courses onto an app called MapRunF through Covid, both 1hr Score (get as many checkpoints as you can in the time) format and a linear course 'Lockdown Series'. You print out a map, plan your route and go for it whenever you like, the app works as tracking and checkpoint check-in, but doesn't display your position while you're actually running, so you can't use it for navigation. I think it's a good compromise, and a couple of the mini Mountain Marathon series are picking it up as well - saves on organisers having to place flags or SportIdent boxes at control sites.
It's encouraged me back into some sort of running, at least. I've knocked a couple over 2mins off my decade-old 5km PB over lockdown - down to 24:15, helped greatly by the fact I've lost 10kg. I'm entered for a couple of mini-MM events over autumn/winter and the Great Lakeland 3-Day next year.
* NB - Not having a go at people who do enjoy running just as running. That's just not me!
In a way I think its good to encourage more self reliance and reduce the dependency on a battery powered navigation and it retains the eccentricity of fell running compared to road racing. I think though that there's deliberate stubbornness involved that doesn't help.
how good does 'battery powered navigation' need to be before it would be acceptable?
I’m not a fellracing expert having only done a handful but I like the idea. Courses aren’t marked and part of the challenge is route-finding. Using GPS basically eliminates a core part of the challenge.
Yeah, but if you can just check last year's courses on Strava and copy them onto your map... assuming you know how to use a map I'm not sure what the difference is. (It's been years since I last used a map while out in the hills, but I'm pretty sure they're not significantly slower than a GPS when you know what you're doing).
how good does ‘battery powered navigation’ need to be before it would be acceptable?
I don't think it's to do with the 'battery powered nav' being good enough/having enough battery life etc, it's about people having the map and compass skills to cope without it. As I say - navigation isn't rocket science, it's a learnable skill.
I worked on a Coast-to-Coast ultra where one of the runners in the top 10 dropped out at the final feed station, less than 40km from the finish, because the track had dropped out or glitched on his Garmin and he couldn't read the maps that he was carrying well enough to get himself to the finish. I found that quite odd.
Yeah, but if you can just check last year’s courses on Strava and copy them onto your map… assuming you know how to use a map I’m not sure what the difference is.
You're asssuming people know how to use a map, which often isn't the case 😉
Tracing a Strava route onto a map would only give you so much. You can see where someone went, but not *why* they went there. The 'best route' on the day might vary depending on the weather, ground conditions, the racer themselves. You often get a split route choice on MMs with controls either side of a valley - do you go straight across and descend into the valley to climb back up, or do you take a longer, flatter route contouring round the head of the valley? Usually the latter would be quicker, but what if the head of the valley is an endless mire of peat hags?
parkrun scheduled for a return at the end of October. Time to see if all of the summer running will result in some 5k PB's.
https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/07/return-of-parkrun-announcement/
Magic, I've missed parkrun more than I thought I would.
Edit - bugger, england only. 🙁
A few years ago I did the High Peak Marathon, GPSs were banned but you were allowed to take a unit provided it was in a sealed opaque bag. The kit check at the end also checked if this bag had been opened. So you had the kit for an emergency but you had to navigate yourself around the course.
Some fell races are pretty obvious in the route being followed even with the clag down but on others navigation is part of the challenge. These are indicated as such with "NS" Navigational Skills required - here's an example https://fellrunner.org.uk/races.php?id=6918 . Of course on a clear day on a shortish course for most it's just a case of following the runner in front. Then again runners with local knowledge have been known to deliberately go off-course, everyone starts to follow them and then they hide behind a suitable rock!
There was a local race a couple of years ago that was fully flagged with canes and tiger tape every fifty to one hundred metres as there were some fields that the race normally used that had crops so were out of bounds. All but three runners went wrong and blasted off on the normal route and were disqualified!
Can anyone remind me what the Strava running club linked to this thread was. I remember it being posted lots earlier somewhere, and meant to join.
The 100 days of exercise reminded me.
The Strava club is Runners of Singletrack.
Thank you
I'd say 50% of fell runners can't navigate but 60% of races don't need navigation, so luckily the numbers work.