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Just picked up off Facebook that rumour has it moyes has been sacked and the bookies have good odds on Fergie to return!! No more substance than I heard it on Facebook mind!
Facebook? It must be true then!
Seems like a pretty sorry state at United. Rumours flying around about all sorts of things, for instance Joey Barton was tweeting how he had heard Vidic changes away from the rest of the team like an outcast. Pundits and journos alike were scathing yesterday, can't see how Moyes can continue past this season.
Well if that's true, I hope Moyes has got a very good termination clause. If Fergie returns and turns things around, poor old Mr Moyes won't be getting any future interviews, except maybe from the lower leagues.
I've heard it's Fergies long term plan to leave on a high, watch the inevitable disaster, see the share price drop, then buy the club with a consortium he already has in place, and return as manager to 25 more glorious years, as he's discovered the elixir of eternal life. Red wine .
Moyes' body language and the photo of him slumped in a chair last night made me think of the Wally with a brolly headlines. He has the aura of a man in deep, deep trouble. Even with Man Us patience, I would not be confident that this will have a positive outcome. I am against short termism generally but equally you also need to know when to cut your loses. That time may be sooner rather than later.
He needs to start inflicting actual physical damage to players, a la Fergie in Beckham-boot-gate. Who would he start with though? Smalling? Cleverly? Young? Nani (even though he never played - he deserves it!). Rooney is ripe for a shoe-ing, surely?
He could have sent Roy Keane in last night to do it for him!
A lot of people have said he can't manage the world class players at united..
So what about the players that aren't Rooney or Juan Mata?
Brendan Rodgers didn't start too good either but look at him now. The man needs a year to sort it out.
At least let West Ham play Man U before they get a good manager.
Brendan Rodgers didn't start too good either but look at him now.
But he didn't have the best team in the league when he started...
he's gotta go (and I don't even watch footy any more)
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Binners, maybe Cantona should manage Man U?
I heard Rooney was taking over as manager.
[quoteBut he didn't have the best team in the league when he started...
Hateful though I find it to be a United apologist (the crowing that went on for years was pretty unbearable), that's not altogether true - he inherited a team which was reasonable at the back and good at the front, but as useful as a wet fart in a wetsuit in the midfield compared with Arsenal, Chelsea and City this year.
In other words, they've been left behind. As I suspect Moyes is wishing he had been….
Not been around as much this season but I heard a rumour it was due to them being a bit crap really. There is only so much you can blame a manager when your players don't play well.
There are 2 ways to win the league, 500 million quid or some consistency. I really hope Arsenal win this year and Newcastle finish above Man U.
Binners you plastic-Man U fan! Get a shirt, ticket bought!
Is that higher or lower on the hora scale of contempt than a plastic liberal?
They can't sack him. How will they be able to do that smug 'why do you keep sacking managers, no wonder you can't succeed!' at City any more?
It's bad enough for them having to get rid of the '...years since City won anything' sign from the Stretford End.
I am against short termism generally but equally you also need to know when to cut your loses. That time may be sooner rather than later.
wow
I think not winning the PL this year was expected but missing the Champions League places by miles that's a shocker. RVP's fantastic season and the implosion of the oppoistion last year covered up the fact that Man U where on borrowed time. They've been found out this year, sadly for Moyes it's not really his fault but his only preseason purchase being Felini is something he cannot shy away from. Unless Man U finish season strongly, and that's looking less and less likely, Moyes will be gone.
He has the aura of a man in deep, deep trouble
He has that aura because he is
It may be a public example of the Peter principle in work
Excellent at amking poor players a brilliant team through hard work and planning. Poor at making good players play well
He ha snot been helped by the team [aging, lack of talent and injuries] or luck though.
He does need more time but it is very hard to see fergie or Jose reigning over a mess like this
he needs to sort it and very very quickly.
I think not winning the PL this year was expected but missing the Champions League places by miles that's a shocker.
1 Chelsea 27 28 60
2 Arsenal 27 25 59
3 Man City 26 42 57
4 Liverpool 27 35 56
5 Tottenham 27 3 50
6 Man Utd 27 12 4518 Sunderland 26 -16 24
19 Cardiff 27 -29 22
20 Fulham 27 -32 21
I know Man U fans often live in different countries but sometimes they sound like they are on a different planet. 6th is not miles away.
Perhaps he didn't have the first day speech...
I understand that it's only Coral that have stopped taking bets on him being sacked but the hierarchy at OT are concerned that he seems overawed by the job.
BTW Vida has never been universally popular in the dressing room.
PS: Barton is a weapon of the highest order.
United need to spend big in the summer. Really big.
Would you trust moyes to attract the right players and mold them into a title winning team on the basis of this year's performances?
yossarian - Member
United need to spend big in the summer. Really big.
No, tehy really don't. Neither Rodgers nor Martinez (formerly Moyes) have not spend big.... but are in better positions than Utd.
Utd need to spend wisely.... there's a massive difference.
United need to [s]spend[/s]sell big in the summer. Really big.
Ditch the names who don't perform and rebuild a team for the future. If you buy a team this year you will need another in 2 years and another after that.
Edit Newcastle are just behind having sold out best players...
It's well known that van Persie was unhappy about fergie's retirement, as he'd told him that he was doing at least another 2 years when he signed. Both Mata's and Rooney's contracts have large buyout clauses should united not make the champions league. United have the finances to spend their way back up the table in the summer.
Someone suggested to me many months ago (start of season), that the club knew Moyes would most likely struggle. They'd give him a season, then boot him, then bring in one of the big guns.
Reason? Impossible to bring in anyonme 'bigger' than fergie to the role, and anyone would suffer a dip in form taking the helm. Better to let that happen to moyes, then there would be the fans' sense of hope by installing a 'better' manager.
I don't really follow football too much; thought that was an interesting/plausible theory though.
^ Which is why they gave him such a long contract?
The trick with long contracts is to get him to resign....
The fact that Ferguson and the board had no succession planning in place for both the squad and coaching staff show how their arrogance, ego's and ineptitude became bigger than the club.
I'm not sure you could put "ineptitude" and "Ferguson" in the same sentence without a negative or a "Sarah" in there somewhere. In hindsight, it's easy to muse that Moyes is someone to take the heat for not being ferguson for a year, but I don't think this is true. I'm sure fans and the board could handle not winning it for a few seasons, but nobody could have foreseen the dip in form and the probability of no UCL football at OT next year. Especially as the noisy neighbours are favourites for the title and the focus of most of their tribal hatred is having an excellent season and scoring lots of goals.
But to agree to no continuity? To allow the whole of the 1st team coaching staff to leave?
Any successful business to do that would be considered tantamount to commercial suicide.
Their delusions have come to bite them and I stand by my comment that Ferguson was not a great manager, purely by the fact that he left with no succession planning in place, at a stroke, it makes all his previous years of hard work and success somewhat tainted.
A good manager will work towards making themselves redundant, I.e. The organisation can continue to function as well and as successfully with or without them. He has failed massively in that.
Ferguson was not a great manager
Yeah, right. Seriously?
Look, I don't like him either. Never have. He's probably the greatest manager the top division has ever seen. Only Paisley can stand alongside him in terms of success. He was persuaded to stay on a few years after he originally wanted to retire.
That Moyes was allowed to get rid of most of the back room staff and bring his own (used to lower expectations and less expensive players at Everton) in is the fault of the board, not Fergie's.
How anyone can say he was not a good manager just because the wheels are coming off now he's gone is beyond me.
I'm a passionate Liverpool fan, but it's impossible to deny Ferguson was a great manager...
How about Steve Mclaren or Sven Goran Eriksson?
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Ferguson was clearly a great manager but I think his ego couldn't handle having a big name come in and be successful straight after him.
Ferguson was not a great manager, purely by the fact that he left with no succession planning in place, at a stroke, it makes all his previous years of hard work and success somewhat tainted.
Cobblers. Was he supposed to saddle the new guy with a load of acquisitions he may not have wanted? It's true the team is firmly on the downward side of the cycle, and the poor form of various players has compounded that.
Ferguson is, annoyingly, probably the greatest manager the top division has seen.
He left Moyes some transfer money to spend, Moyes spent it pretty badly. I still wouldn't sack him - the board surely must see the parallels to Ferguson's second season (which was much, much worse overall in league terms), and stick by the new manager.
Okay, he was a great manager, he achieved much and consistently too. I take your points and agree that he was a great team manager.
So why didn't he have any squad succession planning in place? Where are the fruits of his labours with the youth and player development system ? At one point about 20 years ago, they were queue ing up to get into the first team.
I guess we all can't be great at all aspects of management. 😉
- the board surely must see the parallels to Ferguson's second season (which was much, much worse overall in league terms), and stick by the new manager.
Football back in them days was a completely different thing, commercially, finacially, publically etc...
You simply don't get the time like that now.
It's not beyond feasible that Utd won't even be in Europe... can you imagine that !
The parallels are that sticking by a manager in dire straits yielded the most successful era for a football club in the modern history of the English game (probably including the great Liverpool era).
So why didn't he have any squad succession planning in place? Where are the fruits of his labours with the youth and player development system ? At one point about 20 years ago, they were queue ing up to get into the first team.
Where is any team in Englands ?
Arsenal have a few, Liverpool have a few, Chelsea no, City no, Everton have a couple ... Simple fact is, for whatever reason, the country is not bringing the talent at the same rate they used to.
As for the players he left here, well, they're hardly terrible and it's not like any of them retired at the end of the season, so Moyes still has the same team that Ferguson left. Apart from losing Vidic, Giggs and Ferdinand at the end of the season, he'll still have the squad but with Mata and Fellaini...
The team are not performing as they used to... it's either the managers fault or the teams... simple as that.
The parallels are that sticking by a manager in dire straits yielded the most successful era for a football club in the modern history of the English game (probably including the great Liverpool era).
Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that sticking with a particular manager is any guarantee of success.
I know Man U fans often live in different countries but sometimes they sound like they are on a different planet. 6th is not miles away.
@mikesmith, I'm certainly not a Man U fan and I meant miles behind in terms of points/likelihood of qualifying
Jam, we got you mate... they are miles away, simple as that... they're miles off the pace.
@slackline, I don't think it was Fergies job to have a succession plan in place for the team. In football it's new manager new players generally. Also don't underestimate the impact of the Glaziers taking so much money out of the club.
I wonder if any of the football aficionados here can estimate the impact of finishing 6th or 7th is on revenue, no CL and less PL prize money £35m, £50m, £75m ?
How about Steve Mclaren
Steve Mclaren is doing a fine job at Derby at the minute! Taken then from continuous mid-table mediocrity to promotion contenders.
Apparently with people who should know about these things steve McLaren is one of the most respected coaches/managers out there for his football knowledge,but he will always be tainted by the media driven wally in the brolly thing,just like the media are driving the moyes things,why don't man u fans just realise they are a club in transition who won a very average bpl last year and maybe they wont win anything for a year or two,just suck it up ya big winging girls.
United fan here
The squad's been in decline for two or three seasons, how we won the league last year defies belief. We're a poor side now, no question and Moyes is just presiding over its disintegration. Any manager would need at least two seasons to get them back in top four shape and it won't be cheap. Question is do the Glazers have the stomach for it? Having milked us for all we're worth I doubt it. Utd will be a mediocre team for the foreseeable unless someone who wants to relaunch them as a global brand gets hold of the board room.
There are too many inadaquate players in the Utd dressing room. This is the problem, they may have played up for Fergie in 12-13 but this season they have been found wanting. I really hope that Moyes is given the time to do what he wants there but he was handed a turd rolled in glitter IMO.
@mikesmith, I'm certainly not a Man U fan and I meant miles behind in terms of points/likelihood of qualifying
Yep they are off the pace but being in the top 6 sides in England is not miles off. It shows really that Man U fans along with Liverpool fans recently have an expectation of being winners because of the name rather than achievement.
I suppose at least both sides had a record of achievement. If any fans have ever had unrealistic expectations of divinely pronounced success, for me, that would be Geordies. Though, that seems to have diminished in recent seasons.
Yep they are off the pace but being in the top 6 sides in England is not miles off. It shows really that Man U fans along with Liverpool fans recently have an expectation of being winners because of the name rather than achievement.
United are imo going to finish somewhere around 20-25 points off the eventual winners and their own avg points tally (83) since the PL was formed.
No team has ever won the league and fallen so far behind the subsequent winners since the PL was formed. There's a real possibility that they'll be as close to relegation as champs lge football.
I think only the most deluded of idiots would suggest that their team should be winning every year but that's miles off.
Ferguson was not a great manager, purely by the fact that he left with no succession planning in place, at a stroke, it makes all his previous years of hard work and success somewhat tainted.
Perhaps you'd like to list the qualities and achievements required to reach your definition of 'great' then?
I think we need to see where we finish before we conduct the post-mortem. Its not over yet. We're 15 points off the top. We might well be a lot less by the time its all over. Of course, we might not. But lets see where we are then. To put things in perspective, Liverpool finished 28 points behind us last season, and they now look like a completely different team. Thats a good manager building a decent squad over a couple of seasons. And doing it really well. A long term project
There are no quick fixes at United. I think everyone knew that. Its daft to think there are. The squad needs rebuilding. Moyes has built a great squad at Everton which Martinez is benefitting from now. He needs the chance, like Brendan Rodgers has at Liverpool, to do it over a few seasons.
No team has ever won the league and fallen so far behind the subsequent winners since the PL was formed. There's a real possibility that they'll be as close to relegation as champs lge football.
We won't know that actual position for another couple of months but I suspect your marker to beat is Blackburn Rovers. Winners in 94/95 with 89 points and 7th one season later with 61 points.
I know Man U fans often live in different countries but sometimes they sound like they are on a different planet. 6th is not miles away.
Look at the points totals - yes it is miles away...
We won't know that actual position for another couple of months but I suspect your marker to beat is Blackburn Rovers. Winners in 94/95 with 89 points and 7th one season later with 61 points.
And if they could keep following Blackburn's lead, that'd be grand thanks. 😀
Seriously though, I'd forgotten quite how badly they'd done after winning it. So...16 points from remaining 11 games. They have a chance y'know.
Binners, I subsequently retracted my rather harsh comment on his abilities, I was endeavouring, albeit not as well as I could have, to comment on the reverence to which he is held.
As for listing the qualities and achievements for greatness, that probably deserves a thread of its own! 🙂
I seem to recall we've gone on a bit of a run at the end of a season, to make up a few points, in the past. Hmmmmmmmm….
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It'll be interesting to see how we respond after the debacle the other night. In years past, the last thing you'd want to be doing is playing united after they'd just had a kicking in Europe. Lest we forget, we had a good few of those under Fergie too
No team has ever won the league and fallen so far behind the subsequent winners since the PL was formed. There's a real possibility that they'll be as close to relegation as champs lge football.
Yep agree with you all the way..
94/95 Blackburn Rovers Won
95/96 Blackburn 7th 21 Points behind
Currently Man U 6th 15points down, never let the facts get in the way...
Yep agree with you all the way..
94/95 Blackburn Rovers Won
95/96 Blackburn 7th 21 Points behind
Currently Man U 6th 15points down, never let the facts get in the way...
Yep, but "fading almost as badly as Blackburn did" isn't much of a recommendation, is it!
No but claiming it the worst ever is a bit of imagination something most Man U fans have plenty of. It's normal in sport not to dominate for ever. I would use rangers/celtic as an example but rangers have been the exception and proved the point.
If ever there was a time to accept that to win well you have to know how to lose well was apt it was now.
Currently Man U 6th 15points down, never let the facts get in the way…
Erm… you are aware there are still 11 games left to play? Including 2 of the biggest of the season, where you can forget the form-book, as pretty much anything can happen. Liverpool at home, and the Manchester derby. And both those are still proper 6 pointers
binners realistically at worst you could equal Rovers slide, if both Everton and the Toon overtook you then it would be a miracle. All I'm pointing out is that Premier league history expands beyond [s]Manchester[/s] Salford and that those who expect Man u to be top 4 because they are Man u should look at history.
Even Rangers and Celtic haven't always dominated. Remember the 'new firm'? Aberdeen and Dundee United doing well while Rangers and Celtic struggled by their own high standards. It will be a long time before Rangers are back at the position where they were 5 years ago.
As for Man U, it was obvious last season that the squad needed serious investment to keep challenging for the title, that fact Fergie won the thing is a testament to how good a manager he was. I'm a little surprised at how badly the squad is doing this year but how much of that is due to Moyles and how much is due to the players I don't know.
Personally I'd give him at least until this Christmas next year. Give him some funds and some time to properly rebuild and see what he can do. I suspect most managers would struggle in his situation.
Mike - I agree with you. I don't think we've any divine right. I remember a good few years ago listening to my City mates confidently uttering the immortal lines "we're too big a club to go down". Well that went well.
It'll be a miracle if we finish top 4. But then, with the squad we had, I don't think anyone (least of all me) was expecting us to not just win the Premiership last year, but do it with an 11 point cushion. 😯 That was a bloody miracle too! All I'm saying is its not over til the fat lady sings.
I'm perversely rather enjoying this season, generally, as even at this stage you'd have to be brave or stupid to call who the top 4 are going to be come the end. And there's some cracking football being played
I just wish some of it was by us! 😉
lets face it every other fan in the premier league is pretty much loving seeing man u dominance finally end. Me included and its been good to see so many other teams given a chance this year, more like a proper competition.
I dont think they are a million miles away from 4th place but doubt they'll get there this year. It'll be an interesting soap opera to see if they manage to restructure this summer. the players arent bad players but they've had it too good too long and take it for granted, now they are being asked to man up and summarily failing.
Their run-in
West Brom away
Liverpool home
West Ham away
City home
Aston Villa home
Newcastle away
Hull home
Everton away
Norwich home
Sunderland home
Southampton away
It's a reasonable run-in to the season, particularly in May, and looking at Liverpool and Spurs' run-ins, probably better. Spurs are in indifferent form themselves at the moment.
There is still the opportunity for them to put a bit of a run together. Even as a City fan, I'm hoping they do, to add a bit more interest to one of the best seasons for a while.
They need to have one or two big wins, and looking at the OT Liverpool game, that will be the one that sets the tone. Win that, they're off and running. Or perhaps they will have one of those nights for the Olympiakos return.
lets face it every other fan in the premier league is pretty much loving seeing man u dominance finally end.
Let's face it, dynasties are not good for sport in general. Of course they are if you're a fan of the incumbent dynasty, but they're a bit crap for everyone else.
(one of the reasons I like NFL so much)
It is amusing that the NFL is socialist/fair in nature in the most right wing country in the world!
Certainly means that you get a more random spread of results and wins
lets face it every other fan in the premier league is pretty much loving seeing man u dominance finally end.
I'm just wondering, if this continues, and City keep on going like they are, then one day we might not be the most hated club in Manchester? 😉
It is amusing that the NFL is socialist/fair in nature
any sport using the work franchise is out of the fairness league
It is amusing that the NFL is socialist/fair in nature in the most right wing country in the world!
Certainly means that you get a more random spread of results and wins
😀 It's bizarre isn't it?!
I'm about to start reading this book, supposed to be very good:
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I'm just wondering, if this continues, and City keep on going like they are, then one day we might not be the most hated club in Manchester?
It depends how long you pursue the entitlement thing for
If we adopted NFL models here, Newcastle might actually win something some day.
It depends how long you pursue the entitlement thing for
Depends how long everyone else hangs on to the bitter resentment thing, I suppose 😀
yep and it would be a sad day to win due to a lottery not [s]merit[/s] rich owners
Predicting the final table positions?
Ive always noticed that as the season goes into the second third, goal difference is a very good indicator of how the final standings will pan out.
Nothing scientific, thats just how the universe works 😉
EDIT - quick check on the current PL indicates:
Man City 42
Liverpool 35
Chelski 28
Arse-nal 25
Man U 12
Everton 10
Tottingham 3
What odds would one get for that at the mo do you suppose?
You heard it here if not first, then second or third, or maybe more. 🙂
yep and it would be a sad day to win due to a lottery not rich owners
Rich owners? Well sort of. They're rich because they've taken the club to the cleaners, saddled us with nearly a billion quids worth of their debts, while paying themselves a fortune, and left us technically bankrupt. Which is exactly why we are where we are!
Yip, they've certainly been a blessing those rich owners of ours. You ABU, haterz really do need to take your blinkers off, and get over yourselves a bit 😆